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John Davidson
FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 13, 2013 at 9:50:27 pm

Seems more relevant to the material than this forum.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Steve Connor
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 13, 2013 at 9:54:54 pm

I disagree, I think it's very relevant here it's a great case study of what made you choose FCPX.

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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John Davidson
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 13, 2013 at 10:02:27 pm

Thanks Steve, I appreciate your opinion. My personal beliefs are that this forum is kind of an insult to users and it's no wonder that the Apple support forums are where most people tend to go for problems and advice (tip of the hat to Tom Wolsky for almost always answering them). I understand this forum gets the cow hits but in order to do what we did I stopped coming to this forum for some time. The endless arguments are disheartening to those trying to learn. I would honestly read something in here and then look down and have to untangle my mind from the seemingly helpful debates that in reality had a sum total negative effect on learning.

It's very un-cow, IMHO. I won't support it with my work.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 13, 2013 at 10:19:59 pm

[John Davidson] "The endless arguments are disheartening to those trying to learn. "

give me a break - I attempted a vaguely, if verbose, half reasoned bit on the thread below, and in reply you took a hit on the fact I hit the space bar between sentences - I asked for a response, and you said you might come back with "a very elaborate counterpoint on Monday morning."

thats your contribution John? Snickering rejoinders about paragraph breaks? thats where you are at?

Just to add - so your post just there since deleted, seemed to include your joy that former vice president Al Gore directly responded to your concerns at a select meeting, and that apple produced a road map the very next day - "awesome" as you say -

Anyway. Good work with the high hat.

let's all enjoy your closing where you bemoan the lack of proper discourse:

[John Davidson] "The endless arguments are disheartening to those trying to learn. I would honestly read something in here and then look down and have to untangle my mind from the seemingly helpful debates that in reality had a sum total negative effect on learning.

It's very un-cow, IMHO. I won't support it with my work.
"


great work John. Way to run passive aggressive literally into the ground.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 12:15:09 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "give me a break - I attempted a vaguely, if verbose, half reasoned bit on the thread below, and in reply you took a hit on the fact I hit the space bar between sentences - I asked for a response, and you said you might come back with "a very elaborate counterpoint on Monday morning.""

Aindreas,

Have you ever considered that one of the major problems here...might actually be you?

For reasons unknown, you simply find it impossible to accept any pro-FCP-X argument without thinly veiled derision and sometimes insane counter argument. Hell man, you spent yesterday trying to attack Craig - who's great sin was indicating that he's using X for his work for the BBC successfully.

Wow, what a massively evil concept. The guy uses it. Likes it. And tells people. How can we tolerate that?

Look, sometimes your incessant personal resentment about X is mostly cute and fun and dismissible.

And for some of us who have VERY thick skins - and enjoy forum sparring - it's really not much of a problem.

But it's also possible that many who could contribute greatly here simply won't post because they're concerned that if they post anything that they've done using the software that they feel is positive - they KNOW that posting about it here will open them to relentless ridicule.

Their choice, their feelings, their experiences will be instantly called to account and then instantly compared to other programs that do video BETTER, FASTER, and more PROFESSIONALLY with the implication that only FOOLS could possibly be buying into all the amateur and silly FCP-X hype.

In any other software forum on the internet that I've visited, it's possible for the posters to say positive things about the tool they've chosen without fear of that kind of pointed dismissal. But not here.

Here. A positive post about X MUST be attacked.

And it's tiresome.

And if it stays that way, eventually, everyone who uses X will move on. Because while, yeah, it's sometimes fun to watch people yelling at each other. It's really, really hard to learn in an environment like that.

What if X continues to evolve? What if they manage to shoehorn MORE features and capabilities into it - say for NAB in April? At what point does your historical "X is crap" brand go toxic? Or are you going to try to "pivot" by claiming that it was total crap up to some magic point where it suddenly became useful and acceptable? Maybe that will work for you.

I figured I'd point that out now so you can start working on a strategy for redemption in case you ever find yourself needing to use it -particularly if someone might stumble into the archive of all this babbling and tries to figure out why they should hire you in a few years to use a program you spent years arguing was totally useless.

Either that or just LIGHTEN UP, dude.

Just looking out for you in my own stupid way.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 1:20:41 am

I'm occasionally looking out for you too in my own way, bill.

I'm arguing against the software - I feel its fundamentally invalid.

I will propose or negate arguments to that effect.

FCPX is going to continue to be what it was - an anathema to the risks of editing.

again - so you are not unduly confused - this is not a forum to sell things with a sign off, or to position yourself to sell things in the future - it is a forum to debate the validity of FCPX as an editing construct.

In case you are confused bill, we are winning, it is our foot on the software's neck, it is near dead and I will hold its head under the water for as long as it takes.

It is not valid software and I personally question your intellectual taste.

*sound effect as spit hits spittoon*

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 4:58:11 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "In case you are confused bill, we are winning, it is our foot on the software's neck, it is near dead and I will hold its head under the water for as long as it takes.
"


Well I suppose here it is in a nutshell.

Aindreas's central self-description as a professional video editor is defined by his need to be X's EXECUTIONER. Not to critique it fairly, or look at it objectively but to KILL IT. Period. Full stop.

Must be clarifying not to have to actually care about the facts but to be judge, jury and executioner armed with the certainty that your initial feelings are so perfect that you become instantly immune from ANY need for re-examination and further thought.

At least now we can see everything you write through the proper filter.

I can now see that if X was an actress and you were the cameraman, your goal would be to make your star consistently look as unattractive and repulsive as possible - regardless of her actual fundamental appearance.

Seems to me you've gotten a nice taste for stewing in a self imposed hot tub of disgust about the program.

Please pardon the fact that some of us will choose not to visit you there.

I kinda find truth to be a valuable ideological disinfectant and am uncomfortable being drawn into puddles of thought where it's obvious that there might be virulent infections floating about.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 3:20:31 pm

[Bill Davis] "to be judge, jury and executioner armed with the certainty that your initial feelings are so perfect that you become instantly immune from ANY need for re-examination and further thought."

exactly.

http://www.4twenty.co.uk/uploads/images/large_images/comics//judge_dredd_me...

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Robert d'Alexis
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:13:54 pm

Hi Bill

I need to contact you regarding my December 20th order.
None of the emails I have sent you over the last few days have got through. So in desperation, I am hijacking this thread and apologize for that.

Robert d'Alexis


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Bill Davis
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:54:09 pm

No problem. I'm contacting you via email.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Herb Sevush
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 1:33:33 am

[John Davidson] "My personal beliefs are that this forum is kind of an insult to users "

It's often an insult to non users as well. It's like Big East Basketball - no blood, no foul.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 13, 2013 at 9:59:01 pm

That's a pity John. I enjoyed reading about Al Gore and his role in the FCPX roadmap.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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John Davidson
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 13, 2013 at 10:55:05 pm

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/7142#7142

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 13, 2013 at 11:07:03 pm

I can't quite put my finger on it john, but somehow it feels a little different now.

then you were saying it was actually funny to consider you even had a role - now you are producing blog social media advertising for your company showing front and centre pictures of you and him - and declaring the result of that conversation "awesome".

I just do not know John..... its tricky man.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Oliver Peters
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 1:00:14 am

No offense. It's good for a fat laugh. If you seriously think Al Gore had any effect on the direction of FCP X, then I don't know what to say.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 1:27:10 am

yes quite.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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John Davidson
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 1:33:22 am

You're both right. I apologize to both of you if I had somehow made you think that I have direct mental control of any current or former elected officials of the Executive branch of United States, or that perhaps Apple somehow waits to make all decisions and announcements based off my recommendations.

Some, perhaps, but definitely not all.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 2:00:15 am

Hey, no need to apologize. I read it as tongue in cheek. I was just hoping that's how you meant it ;-)

Seriously though, I am interested in hearing about the transition in your shop.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:34:23 pm

[John Davidson] "You're both right. I apologize to both of you if I had somehow made you think that I have direct mental control of any current or former elected officials of the Executive branch of United States, or that perhaps Apple somehow waits to make all decisions and announcements based off my recommendations.

Some, perhaps, but definitely not all.
"


Wait a second. You told me that the Veep was like your puppet, and that getting him to make the current Current TV deal was like step one in your plan to take X to a planetary level in time to welcome our new reptilian masters, just before they shed their human skins and take full control. Or did I dream that? Or was that an episode of South Park?

It all gets so confusing.


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Steve Connor
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:38:28 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Wait a second. You told me that the Veep was like your puppet, and that getting him to make the current Current TV deal was like step one in your plan to take X to a planetary level in time to welcome our new reptilian masters, just before they shed their human skins and take full control."

and Aindreas has been sent here to stop them?

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:43:23 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Chris Harlan] "Wait a second. You told me that the Veep was like your puppet, and that getting him to make the current Current TV deal was like step one in your plan to take X to a planetary level in time to welcome our new reptilian masters, just before they shed their human skins and take full control."

and Aindreas has been sent here to stop them?
"


"I would guess. Either in a TARDIS or on a Dalek mothership," he said, wistfully trying to sound neutral in the silly slap-fest that seems to have ensued.


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Bill Davis
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:05:23 pm

[Chris Harlan] "in the silly slap-fest that seems to have ensued."

Geez, I'm already WAY too old for Cochilla, so the thought of attending slap-fest is, like, totally out of the question.

BTW, I really like your new picture. It's kinda comforting to joust with a human as opposed to an anthropomorphized ornament. Well done sir!

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:01:25 pm

[Bill Davis] "[Chris Harlan] "in the silly slap-fest that seems to have ensued."

Geez, I'm already WAY too old for Cochilla, so the thought of attending slap-fest is, like, totally out of the question.
"


Oh, yeah. Bill, you're a ninja slap-fest master and you know it. 3rd Degree black belt, I do believe.

[Bill Davis] "BTW, I really like your new picture. It's kinda comforting to joust with a human as opposed to an anthropomorphized ornament. Well done sir!
"


I only put the Christmas ornament up because I was following Jeremy's command.


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Bill Davis
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 9:36:06 pm

[Chris Harlan] "I only put the Christmas ornament up because I was following Jeremy's command."

To quote Mr. Dylan....

We've all got to serve somebody.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Herb Sevush
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 9:47:30 pm

[Bill Davis] "To quote Mr. Dylan....
We've all got to serve somebody."


"Don't follow leaders,
Watch the parking meters."

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve Becker
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 2:15:53 am

Hi John,
looking forward to the post. I for one find this forum (not the FCPX Technique forum) very tiresome and extraordinarily negative. I've switched from FCP7 to FCPX the day it came out and never looked back.

Steve


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Mark Dobson
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:06:51 am

[John Davidson] "Seems more relevant to the material than this forum"

I've always seen a clear delineation between the 2 Cow FCPX forums.

FCPX Techniques seems the place to post with technical workflow problems and solutions and this one for the more discursive, dare I say, interesting aspects
of how FCPX fits into the ever changing NLE environment. And that means looking at both the positives and negatives in the debate.

Like many others visiting this forum I've been using FCPX since it's launch but that is not to say that I'm open to listening to those who still see this software as being deeply flawed.

Despite all the updates and improvements FCPX still has a long way to go before it attains the position that FCP 7 held, or still holds.

Not posting positive FCPX experiences on this forum will diminish the debate but as most people participate on both forums it's not such a big deal.


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 4:57:03 pm

John, I'd like to second what Mark is saying here. I'd love to hear about your workflow.

of how FCPX fits into the ever changing NLE environment. And that means looking at both the positives and negatives in the debate.

Like many others visiting this forum I've been using FCPX since it's launch but that is not to say that I'm open to listening to those who still see this software as being deeply flawed.

Despite all the updates and improvements FCPX still has a long way to go before it attains the position that FCP 7 held, or still holds.

Not posting positive FCPX experiences on this forum will diminish the debate but as most people participate on both forums it's not such a big deal.
"


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John Godwin
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:17:54 pm

I think I understand John's reasoning. Even though I seldom post I read pretty much everything on both forums. I've learned a great deal from some of the tangents this forum particularly has taken.

It's one thing to make reasonable points about limitations or flaws or missing features in FCPX (although I doubt many of the people posting here go to the Abobe or Avid forums and make equally hostile remarks as they do here). Those posts are informative and may even help make FCPX better in the long run. You, Chris, have contributed greatly to those, in my opinion.

Jihads and Jermiahads about the FCPX apocalypse, however, jumped the snark some time ago. They say much more about the person posting than the product.

Best,
John


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 9:01:44 pm

John, that's very nice of you to say. I DO think that it might be time to reformat this forum, though I don't know if the powers that be will go for it. The other problem, too, is that while a change of focus might improve the experience on this forum, it might also unleash a bit more negativity in the Techniques Forum then members there might like. X or Not does tend to act as a deflecting magnet.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 10:59:59 pm

[John Godwin] "Jihads and Jermiahads about the FCPX apocalypse, however, jumped the snark some time ago. They say much more about the person posting than the product."

So, should we fight fire with fire?


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John Godwin
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 11:13:32 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "So, should we fight fire with fire?"

No, not really. We - I - should have more class than that. I usually regret posting something snarky within 5 minutes. But sometimes my patience wears thin, and, despite my best efforts, I'm only human. I do think "jumped the snark" is pretty funny, otherwise, though.

I don't object to specific complaints about FCPX, not that my objections carry any particular weight here. I sometimes am foolish enough to take the bait and, for that and any other offense, I'm sorry.

And I particularly admire your patience and good cheer through all of this.

Best,
John


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 16, 2013 at 2:23:15 am

[John Godwin] "I do think "jumped the snark" is pretty funny, otherwise, though."

Thanks, John.

I certainly don't mind snark. In fact, I enjoy humor and I enjoy snarky humor, sometimes to a fault.

I was just hoping that I am not seen as someone on a clandestine mission to convert the nonbelievers.

I enjoy accuracy, yet I understand that I might indulge in the occasional platitude, or dream, or stretch of the imagination, or down right fantasy.

The responses here aren't trying to persuade one to convert to FCPX, rather, some of us are here to hold up the end of the conversation that FCPX is not all that bad, and some things, are actually pretty good.

Certainly, it seems it's not for everyone.

It does become a tit-for-tat when we get in to capabilities. My clients get in to tit-for-tats in edits. It is part of the production process in that there are significant amounts of details to account for, which is why many are here arguing these subtleties. It is sometimes hard to not get mired in the details.


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John Godwin
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 16, 2013 at 2:47:01 am

With maybe one or two exceptions I don't think anyone here has a mission to convert people to FCPX. The people who like it, generally, are of the "Hey, it's great (or good) for me but I know it may not be the best for you" variety. Which I think is a perfectly reasonable approach.

Here, in the circles I travel, there seem to be a lot of one person shops that really love FCPX and appreciate it's value. The larger operations I'm familiar with (not by any means all or even most) with much more hardware infrastructure seem to prefer more traditional systems. Which, again, makes sense. There's a lot more riding on system changes.

I personally expect FCPX to grow and add capabilities and that eventually all those objections will go away. If you simply look at v1 FCPX to the current v7 the changes are pretty impressive and substantual. If that rate of improvement continues ...

Best,
John


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Craig Seeman
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:11:35 pm

[Mark Dobson] "and this one for the more discursive, dare I say, interesting aspects
of how FCPX fits into the ever changing NLE environment. And that means looking at both the positives and negatives in the debate."


There is some excellent analysis going on in this forum on NLE design philosophy and its impact on workflow... and where FCPX strengths and weaknesses are and whether they are in design or simply features needing development.

On the other hand there's strong hostility which is not at all productive IMHO. I'm not sure how many new people drop in and start posting but it seems like this forum is constrained to our regulars. I can only speculate that the hostility is driving potential new participants away from posting any kind of positive experience.

[Mark Dobson] "Not posting positive FCPX experiences on this forum will diminish the debate but as most people participate on both forums it's not such a big deal."

If an experienced post/editor who may have had background with Avid, Adobe, Legacy, had an insightful experience with FCPX, they, as lurkers, may decide this is not the place to post since they may be treated with professional disrespect.



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Steve Connor
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:17:26 pm

[Craig Seeman] "If an experienced post/editor who may have had background with Avid, Adobe, Legacy, had an insightful experience with FCPX, they, as lurkers, may decide this is not the place to post since they may be treated with professional disrespect.
"


This shouldn't be a problem any more, but sadly it is, it seems to have got worse in the last few days and it's doing this forum no good at all.

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Jim Giberti
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:53:58 pm

[Steve Connor] "This shouldn't be a problem any more, but sadly it is, it seems to have got worse in the last few days and it's doing this forum no good at all."

I tune it out now because there's nothing new or insightful in the comments, just axe grinding.

Of course FCPX has flaws...so your favorite NLE doesn't?

Of course there are real questions and criticisms over the way FCPX was launched - a year and a half ago.

But the compulsive slagging of a technology that you've opted not to embrace just comes across as bitter.

That's not to say that lively discussions as to it's strengths and weaknesses and the ideology behind it and GUIs in general aren't great - they're what made this forum so interesting.

But please, when someone has something professionally insightful to share let it be shared and discussed in the proper context. That is, that FCPX is being used by a lot of people, who are really enjoying the experience and producing wonderful work with it.

Start from that point, and it's all good.


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Herb Sevush
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:41:36 pm

[Craig Seeman] "On the other hand there's strong hostility which is not at all productive IMHO. I'm not sure how many new people drop in and start posting but it seems like this forum is constrained to our regulars. I can only speculate that the hostility is driving potential new participants away from posting any kind of positive experience."

Oh you poor dears. Below are excerpts from the first 5 responses to Craig Slattery's very positive thread about posting his new show.

Methinks you got the responses you were asking for -- and are now playing the wounded innocent.

...................................

Yep. Couldn't agree more.

Bring on the 20 paragraph rant replies!

John Davidson

............................

We know it's not FCPX, he's taking performance enhancing drugs.

Craig Seeman

..................................
[Don Scioli] "Duh, i could have told you it was fast 6 months ago,"

Unfortunately when people say that, the skeptics may be pondering what hallucinogens the editor might be using or what's in the Kool-aid they're drinking.

...................................

[craig slattery] "The down side, as a freelancer Im doing my self out of work."

This what happens when they dumb down an NLE. It makes all the decisions for you and gets done faster.

Actually you're now guaranteed call backs for revisions because, according to others, apparently you will forever be the only one in the U.K. who edits with FCPX.

Craig Seeman
.......................................

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:05:39 pm

Yes, Herb, I was mimicking the responses that a post like Craig Slattery's usually gets. That's mainly because those are the kind of responses we have seen on this forum in the past.

While I suspect there are many lurkers, we haven't heard much from any new voices for some time. I also suspect that the lurkers who might otherwise want to talk about good experiences, shy away.

Craig Slattery mentions other editors gaining interest and then that's refuted. That kind of response is too common.



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Herb Sevush
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:13:30 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Craig Slattery mentions other editors gaining interest and then that's refuted. That kind of response is too common."

Craig, although I realize you are never wrong, nothing was refuted until you practically dared someone to do it. Sort of like intellectual entrapment. To think that those type of responses don't poison the well as much as any other is the sheerest hypocrisy. As for myself I don't mind a little poison in the waters, it gives it a little kick, but when the arguments get spicy I don't cry to mother about it.

As for why new editors don't post here, it's mostly because there's nothing really left to say for now, is there?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve Connor
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:37:52 pm

[Herb Sevush] "As for why new editors don't post here, it's mostly because there's nothing really left to say for now, is there?
"


Not for you perhaps.

Problem is now that the FCPX forums are split. If you take the FCP Classic forum, it was and is a fantastic place that was a mix of workflow tips, problem solving and feature discussions. With FCPX it's split across two forums, the techniques forum is shaping up rather nicely and in reality perhaps we should be concentrating FCPX user discussions over there rather than on here.

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Herb Sevush
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:41:29 pm

[Steve Connor] "we should be concentrating FCPX user discussions over there rather than on here."

That was always the point of the 2 forums. Come here to proselytize and be prepared for a rotten tomato every now and then, go there to solve workflow problems and pat yourselves on the back.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve Connor
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:46:59 pm

[Herb Sevush] "That was always the point of the 2 forums. Come here to proselytize and be prepared for a rotten tomato every now and then, go there to solve workflow problems and pat yourselves on the back.
"


So is that what they do on other COW - forums pat themselves on the back?

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Herb Sevush
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:54:37 pm

[Steve Connor] "So is that what they do on other COW - forums pat themselves on the back?"

Sure, go to the PPro forum and count up how many times someone posts how much they love PPro, they can't believe how long they suffered with FCP, how PPro is the best NLE out there ... yada yada yada.

Nothing wrong with onanism, but stoking yourself always looks silly to someone else, unless your a stripper.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:05:09 pm

[Herb Sevush] ". Come here to proselytize and be prepared for a rotten tomato every now and then,"

I would have hoped we moved well beyond that.

A good portion of this forum has been about software and hardware design and implementation. Tracks vs magnetism and roles for example, Events and Keywords vs traditional projects and bins, persistent in/out points vs ranged favorites, computer hardware design needed for NLE or broader post environment.

None of this need be hostile. Seeing real world case studies as per Craig Slattery, John Davidson, Oliver Peters, Bill Davis. Tony West and others illuminate both the advantages and challenges, opening a discussion on whether FCPX's "new paradigm" is better, worse, just different and how we see and experience it.

I don't think this falls neatly into "techniques" since it's not simply "how to" but "how it impacts" post production.

That it has often devolved into derogatory comments on the editor or the software developers detracts from the discussion IMHO. It certainly may discourage lurkers from sharing their experiences.



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Craig Seeman
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:09:49 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Craig, although I realize you are never wrong, nothing was refuted until you practically dared someone to do it. Sort of like intellectual entrapment."

Actually John Davidson said bring on the 20 paragraph rant replies or something to that effect and that I started posting my mock responses. True it was bait. I admit it. I was hoping the humor was obvious.



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Herb Sevush
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:16:37 pm

[Craig Seeman] " True it was bait. I admit it. I was hoping the humor was obvious."

The humor was obvious, but it was still bait. It's OK by me, I like worms.

[Craig Seeman] "Actually John Davidson said bring on the 20 paragraph rant replies "

Yes, and then he was the one to take his ball and go home because the kids played too rough.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve Connor
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:23:08 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Yes, and then he was the one to take his ball and go home because the kids played too rough.
"


He did move the post very quickly!

To follow it up John has started posting some interesting videos on his workflows over on the techniques forum.

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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John Davidson
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:29:08 pm

For clarity, I had always intended to post those in techniques, but because FCPX is so special that it gets two forums, I put it in the wrong one. I moved it as soon as I realized it.

If you look back, aside from the occasional post like this weekend when I was on the cow a lot prepping these blogs, I took my balls out of this forum a long long time ago.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Herb Sevush
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:40:27 pm

[John Davidson] " I took my balls out of this forum a long long time ago."

A sentence that will live forever.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Oliver Peters
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:14:49 pm

I think most of us are guilty of helping to throw some of these discussions wildly off topic and let them devolve into arguments.

It's the new year. FCP X is what it is. Maybe we should all work a little harder at keeping the comments - both praise and complaints - substantive. At the same time, if someone really likes a feature or it frustrates him, let's recognize those are matters of taste, workflow and style. Let's not immediately pull the fanboy or dunce card.

There are clearly many ways users can use the software and the Apple engineers themselves haven't finished tinkering. By the same token, FCP X IS different and requires some relearning when people try to master it.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:16:57 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I think most of us are guilty of helping to throw some of these discussions wildly off topic and let them devolve into arguments."

The OT bit is what makes this place so fascinating

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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John Davidson
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:19:08 pm

I think they should take FCPX and Apple off the forum name. Otherwise it's a trap for people unfamiliar with the fact that this room is essentially the pinball machine from "The Accused".

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:46:56 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Oliver Peters] "I think most of us are guilty of helping to throw some of these discussions wildly off topic and let them devolve into arguments."

The OT bit is what makes this place so fascinating
"


Highly agreed. Its time for the lounge. I think a refocusing and a name change is in order. I've learned so much from this forum, in terms of it being an advanced discussion group.


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Jim Giberti
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 11:54:44 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Herb Sevush] "Yes, and then he was the one to take his ball and go home because the kids played too rough.
"


I think positive people seek positive environments to share their thoughts.

I think that's healthy and normal.


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:42:09 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Craig Slattery mentions other editors gaining interest and then that's refuted. That kind of response is too common."

I really don't want to get into this whole thing, because I think its all a ridiculous argument, but to be fair, I don't think you are representing Craig's relationship to either X or this forum accurately. Craig is VERY enthusiastic about X, and, in his enthusiasm, has made some rather bold statements about the future of X. He goes a good bit beyond talking about how useful it is or how much he likes or how well it works for him to making some strong prognostications about its future. And, these prognostications, whether insightful or full of fancy, are often put forward with an emphasis that I, personally, would hesitate to attach to the hypothetical. And, that's okay. There's a lot of hyperbole here. But, making those kind of statements opens you up for challenge. And, challenge is what he got. He seems pretty tough to me; I think he can handle it.

I think this forum HAS served its primary purpose, as least as I see it. Few people will mistake the editing program called FCP X for an upgraded version of another NLE suite, the soon to be defunct FCS. I think everyone can see that they are very different animals now, and frankly, that is what has always been important to me--that people's choices are clear. I think the point has been made.

The best part of this forum has mutated into something well beyond "X or not," and we might now be nearing the time to make the transition complete. I have a lot of friends here, which is why I keep coming back. Sadly, some of them are not. I enjoy talking with John and Jim, and I wish they didn't think of this as an alien place. I think of this an editor's lounge, and I think I'd be happier if it officially became that. We can still fight about stuff--in fact, we'd be remise if we didn't--but I think FCP X has worn the scarlet letter long enough.


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John Davidson
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:44:46 pm

Thanks Chris. Check out the tutorials in the official FCPX forum. They're all live now.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Andy Field
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 9:07:05 pm

The hostility comes from a company giving a carpenter an excellent hammer and then suddenly, without warning, saying you can no longer use the hammer that made you the most productive carpenter around. Now it's time to use our new screwdriver that does differently most of what you spent a decade perfecting....and we'll put in the rest of the functionality in the next 18 months.

Those carpenters weren't waiting around....

Yes - the hammer is still around (and maybe you can buy it somewhere on the web) - but it's rusting and will soon become useless as the company upgrades it's OS......

all that said - FCP X is an interesting, useful tool - just not the tool many editors are comfortable using....so they've grabbed other tool boxes that feel familiar (AVID/ADOBE)

The improvements are excellent....but aren't enough to lure me back...i wish someone would post a tutorial that shows how to mix audio without rubber banding everything as that's the one thing that's kept us from even considering X (yes i know you can select regions and drop or raise volume with keystrokes..but that's not mixing....and you could do that and more in the older app)

Best,

Andy Field Fieldvision productions

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Bret Williams
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 11:12:20 pm

You're missing the mixer sliders? Did you use an external mixer or just slide them with mouse? I always found it to be so imprecise and just quicker to rubber band. The latter could be done mostly scrubbing around while the former took multiple passes in real time. So I tried it off and on, but I always ended up tweaking the results, which seemed to defeat the purpose.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 14, 2013 at 11:18:04 pm

[Bret Williams] "You're missing the mixer sliders? Did you use an external mixer or just slide them with mouse?"

I miss it, too. There's a workaround for now, though, for final mixes. Assuming you don't send it off to someone else mixing in Pro Tools, you can use Soundtrack Pro or Adobe Audition CS6. (Obviously, assuming you have these installed.)

Export an FCPXML. Next use Xto7. Convert to XML and open in FCP 7 and then send to STP. OR convert to XML and save. Then import into Audition. Now you have a mixer with automation gain control in either application. Control surfaces work fine with STP.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jim Giberti
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 12:12:51 am

[Bret Williams] "You're missing the mixer sliders? Did you use an external mixer or just slide them with mouse? I always found it to be so imprecise and just quicker to rubber band. The latter could be done mostly scrubbing around while the former took multiple passes in real time. So I tried it off and on, but I always ended up tweaking the results, which seemed to defeat the purpose."

I've spent the better part of my professional lifetime with at least one big console in one of my rooms. We used to group 48 track mixes with plastic stereo fader joiners and rehearse two person mixes all the time.
Even when I went from analog to DAW to NLE (Motu DP for several years now) I still had Mackie control surfaces.

Then I realized how much more precise I could make all my moves and how much time I could save by breaking my "I have to mix with a mixer" habit/routine and expanding my view.

So even though I'm good at it and I have full 48 track automated mixing with unlimited "do-overs", there's nothing quicker than drawing curves and adjusting them as needed. At this point a fader is just a representation of the actual audio adjustments being being made under the hood. And it's no longer a fast or intuitive infographic compared to simply controlling that data directly.

The FCPX approach is really fast and intuitive and visual.
One of the important things I've learned recently is letting go of preconceptions and habits and approaches, even if It's the only way I've ever done things.
I'm learning and growing a lot because of it.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 1:13:31 am

[Jim Giberti] "The FCPX approach is really fast and intuitive and visual.
One of the important things I've learned recently is letting go of preconceptions and habits and approaches, even if It's the only way I've ever done things.
I'm learning and growing a lot because of it."


One interesting "best of both worlds" is the Waves VocalRider plug-in, which works fine in FCP X. It was $79-$99 during the holiday sales deals.

http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=9945

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jim Giberti
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 1:22:16 am

[Oliver Peters] "
One interesting "best of both worlds" is the Waves VocalRider plug-in, which works fine in FCP X. It was $79-$99 during the holiday sales deals."


Interesting Oliver. I'll have to demo it.


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Walter Soyka
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 1:54:26 am

[Oliver Peters] "One interesting "best of both worlds" is the Waves VocalRider plug-in, which works fine in FCP X. It was $79-$99 during the holiday sales deals. http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=9945"

And thus, this terrible, horrible, no good, very bad thread has yielded something that's equally off-topic and valuable.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 2:47:55 am

[Walter Soyka] "[Oliver Peters] "One interesting "best of both worlds" is the Waves VocalRider plug-in, which works fine in FCP X. It was $79-$99 during the holiday sales deals. http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=9945"

And thus, this terrible, horrible, no good, very bad thread has yielded something that's equally off-topic and valuable."


There we are!


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Andy Field
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 6:29:07 am

Yes I use the mixer (software and outboard) all the time -- in every program FCP 7, Premiere Pro and Avid -- it's far easier to finesse a music duck and bring it up in real time than tediously placing control points....drawing in dips and peaks..playing...no not quite...try again......the mixer lets you do it in one pass and hit undo if it doesn't work.

...the Vocal Rider looks promising - does it work inside FCPX?

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Charlie Austin
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 7:29:10 am

[Andy Field] "does it work inside FCPX?"

Tech specs say it does. The current price of $300, however, says i'll be using key framing for a while yet. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 9:36:16 pm

[Charlie Austin] "[Andy Field] "does it work inside FCPX?"

Tech specs say it does. The current price of $300, however, says i'll be using key framing for a while yet. ;-)

--"


It looks wild, though. I was chopping up a bunch of dia when the post came in last night, which doubled my appreciation of how lovely such a thing would be. If it really works.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 17, 2013 at 2:06:14 am

[Chris Harlan] "It looks wild, though. I was chopping up a bunch of dia when the post came in last night, which doubled my appreciation of how lovely such a thing would be. If it really works."

I noticed tonight that I did seem to have some instability with the Waves plug-ins in X. When I quit, I sometimes have the need to force quit X. The app closes but the icon is still lit. Once I saw a crash report afterwards, which noted a Waves Shell problem. I also have some standard Focurite Scarlett filters on this machine and those appear to be OK. Apparently no problem with the Wave plug-ins in the audio apps (Audition, STP, Soundforge) on this machine.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 17, 2013 at 3:40:28 am

They still have their New Years Sale going, but sadly Vocal Rider is not or is no longer a part of it.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 8:21:26 pm

[Chris Harlan] "I think this forum HAS served its primary purpose, as least as I see it. Few people will mistake the editing program called FCP X for an upgraded version of another NLE suite, the soon to be defunct FCS. I think everyone can see that they are very different animals now, and frankly, that is what has always been important to me--that people's choices are clear. I think the point has been made.
"


agreed - I just popped back in to push back at craig a bit - I think he overdoes it a little, and he has done the "coming up next on the BBC via my FCPX" quite a few times now. This is on some level a debate forum, I went to go push back. The thing I find a little irritating is the passive agressive nature of those proposing the software - when someone kicks back they're all wringing their hands at the negativity of it all - its a point of view they don't agree with - and this forum isn't anyone's - theirs or anyone else's - if anyone gets out of bounds, I have no doubt the cow will drop on them.

bar that - its a debate forum - its in the title. I argued Craig to get a little more specific, I don't think he particularly he did, and I looked to call him on it.

Mind you - having Bill Davies of all people bemoaning supposed negativity and agressive debate - that takes the biscuit - all of the biscuits and the tin containing them.

Still - all of the arguments have been made at this point - the forum probably does need some kind of reshaping - there are a lot of people on here who really know what they are talking about and we get some great threads. The time of fire breathing threads really should be gone at this point.

last point? I watched Johns series - it was great. One thing struck me - he rejects projects near completely, and isn't actually willing to work in the primary.

I'll say nothing to that but seriously - that says something about both the timeline, and the project organisational structure of the software - one of its biggest fans, is in effect, working around the margins of the software.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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John Davidson
Thank you
on Jan 15, 2013 at 8:40:22 pm

Thanks man. And I apologize if I offended you with the 20 paragraphs thing.

I should probably do a tutorial on the tutorial where I can show how much we used the magnetic to great effect on the tutorial itself. It does have its uses and in reality I don't want to lose it, but my brain just likes to work outside of a magnetic timeline when I'm in the promo zone. Some people take great offense that I don't stay in primary in our promo. It doesn't seem to have an effect on the final product so in my mind it's not a big deal.

One trick I didn't touch on was splicing up the gap clip in primary to move things around, create spaces, etc. That can be pretty useful in and of itself. Considering the changes that came with 10.0.6 and how it completely revised how we work with compounds, I think what I've been pushing for in regards to minimizing primary in some fashion is within the realm of possibility for future versions of X. Pre 10.0.6 we had tons and tons of projects as versions and it started getting sloppy, even with folders. Now with new the CC format it's neat and clean.

It's not for everybody but I think it's cool how the app is progressing. Tricks like using generators for custom client slates or building motion themes for rough cut graphics keep me up at night - in a good way.

Anyways, thanks again. Let's hug it out, ok?

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thank you
on Jan 15, 2013 at 9:21:05 pm

[John Davidson] "I apologize if I offended you with the 20 paragraphs thing."

yes, I do appear to be touchy about my verbose, insanely long winded posts. As I like to say "its not a post unless you need to scroll down to finish it."


[John Davidson] "I should probably do a tutorial on the tutorial where I can show how much we used the magnetic to great effect on the tutorial itself."

yes - I got insanely curious watching the timelapse of the promo build - I replayed that quite a bit - I've done a fair whack of promos like that too - radio edit to get shape, and draft graphics and that. I don't do promos as much as I used to - but I'm supposed to be doing a horror series promo on friday - that I am looking forward to no end.

[John Davidson] "Considering the changes that came with 10.0.6 and how it completely revised how we work with compounds, I think what I've been pushing for in regards to minimizing primary in some fashion is within the realm of possibility for future versions of X."

that I really liked - seeing the versioned edit sequences neatly flowing into the comp keyword tickled my fancy no end. The smart collection attribute selections really are killer.
Basically putting the projects/sequences up there in the browser via CC seems a really nice solution. That said, if apple were to listen to the likes of yourself actually gunning the software - they might consider alterations to the timeline to allow for promo-style scenarios: where the in anger editor is currently inclined to stay away from the primary - that really should tell them something maybe?

[John Davidson] "Tricks like using generators for custom client slates or building motion themes for rough cut graphics keep me up at night - in a good way."

god absolutely - for corporate stuff even - I always thought that the ability to deploy controlled type colour GFX options would be immensely beneficial for client brand control - I had a warble about that a while ago. there is literally nothing out there like the motion rigging paradigm in FCPX.

again - cheers for the run down John - it was very informative, and a laugh to watch, the music interludes were a treat. I've bought and paid for my copy of the thing, if FCPX ever does start to appear over here, I'm likely to steal from the series wholesale.

and so awkward bro-fist type carry on.

Also - at least you got to meet Al Gore - I got to meet (sort of) George W. Bush. I would much prefer the former.

A

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Michael Gissing
Re: Thank you
on Jan 16, 2013 at 1:15:01 am

Thanks John for putting the series up. As someone who doesn't use FCPX but wants to know how it can be used in a collaborative workflow I really appreciated the trouble you have gone to explain setups and workflows.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Thank you
on Jan 16, 2013 at 7:16:02 am

[John Davidson] "I should probably do a tutorial on the tutorial where I can show how much we used the magnetic to great effect on the tutorial itself

First off, nice series, thanks!. Just wanted to pipe in on the primary... As you may or may not know, i cut promos/trailers, have been using X a lot, and avoided the primary as well, for the same reasons you mention. Last couple projects though, I "forced" myself to start using it and I must say, I'm kind of digging it. :-) I'll rough out bits as connected clips, then dump em in the primary and move on. I still detach the sync audio... until the expanded clips get fade handles etc it's still easier to work with it separately. The snorkels do a good job of keeping everything in sync, ands it's a hell of a lot easier to move chunks around. I guess chopping up gap in primary gets you the same functionality... but the primary kinda rocks once the old muscle memory (KB shortcuts etc) gets trained. lol

[John Davidson] Pre 10.0.6 we had tons and tons of projects as versions and it started getting sloppy, even with folders. Now with new the CC format it's neat and clean.

Isn't it just as messy using CC's?... other than the fact that everything lives in the event? I've always made a "master" project folder for each event (same name), then subfolders (containing deeper subfolders) for all the different spots and versions. I'm sure that, like you, I'll have at least 5 - usually more - versions of a spot before it even gets to V1. And then multiple versions after that. Usually around 10-15 or so projects (sequences) for each spot. And I'll often have 5 or more spots... a lot of projects. ;-) Honestly, I like keeping that mess out of the event. It also allows me to duplicate the "master" folder, and pull out and archive folders of projects that I don't need. I guess it's a workflow thing? We do mostly movies, so we're often cutting stuff for the same feature for months at a time.

In any case... thanks for taking the time to put that tutorial together!

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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John Davidson
Re: Thank you
on Jan 16, 2013 at 7:48:21 am

Hey Charlie, thanks! I'm going to reply/continue on Blog #5 as this thread is longer than....well...it's pretty long. :)

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Chris Harlan
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 9:30:33 pm

Definitely. If someone declares "this is the way this business is, or is going to be," and you, as a professional don't see it that way, you have every right--and, perhaps, responsibility--to make clear your disagreement. People who look to our ramblings to help them form some vaguely accurate picture of the workplace deserve that.

I DO understand why FCP X users bristle because of this forum, and their is probably validity in the complaint that there is no "or not" forum for any other NLE. It tends to color what has become a general debate forum on the future of NLEs and the businesses around them. Maybe if the name were gone, the defenders would not feel so offended.

As to the odd double standard you mention; yes, I've experienced it myself. Frankly, I think all of the harsh criticism that X has received over the last year and a half as been very good for it. I know that the faithful tend to be one with the notion that Apple had and will always have a Pro plan for FCP, and that if we can't see it... Well, we just don't have enough faith. I don't believe that. I believe "the Pro in all of us" is the driving force behind X, and that if there hadn't been such an outcry FCP X would be nowhere near where it is today. I know that the COW has just been one of many tiny squeaky wheels, but I think all of the rants and ALL CAPS discussions have been important.

Where are you now by the way? Is it Avid or Premiere? Or both? It's both for me, though I'm liking Avid so much more than I ever thought I would. And, hey--maybe someday X; I keep watching it.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FYI, the blog FCPX on-air posts will be posted in the FCPX Techniques forum
on Jan 15, 2013 at 10:07:53 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Where are you now by the way? Is it Avid or Premiere? Or both?"

er, thats an excellent question Chris, I'm really glad you asked me that - while it is an ever changing something something...

ahem - To say London is tip toeing around the issue of FCP is an understatement - the degree to which the playing field is unaltered at my level - I would not have bet a fiver on it eighteen months ago.

also I'm lazy. I've got CS6 for about 6 months now - premiere I'm nearly cocky about, although I haven't tried that hard - It feels largely comfortable, and all the stuff in terms of gui conventions and effects handling I know from AE, the stuff that might be strange for other editors feels largely like home for me (who doesn't love what the tilde key does?) **FCPX snark there**
I feel reasonably confident about PPro - I personally think it about should be the sucessor to FCP: it seems to have the same broad intentions in terms of the market. There was always a large swathe of the editing market effectively waiting for an FCP to appear.
I would argue PPro is the once and future FCP. Relatively cheap, pro focused, fully tooled(ish).

Avid on the other hand - I just started doing some real long form there recently (in FCP7), but I don't feel avid is likely to stray too far from its natural habitat. And in London that is pockets in long form and the really deadly serious business for the major broadcasters and narrative.

Again: I'm lazy, and unlike yourself and many others, I lack a previous Avid hinterland. A lot of Avid still spells steampunk crazy to me? mental block.

[Chris Harlan] "Frankly, I think all of the harsh criticism that X has received over the last year and a half as been very good for it."

you would hope right? - outside forays into hissyfits, said someone who never had one - we're on a public forum, and I've genuinely pretty much been in this for pranging apple's bumper as far as gnat impact bellowing will allow.

whatever else, this forum has definitely delivered its share of heat and light.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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