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Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?

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Paul Figgiani
Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 1, 2013 at 9:33:58 pm

Hi, Craig.

Is there something else needed other than what's already supported? If you add the x264 Component to /Library/Quicktime it's ready for use in Compressor (and FCPX) by setting up a custom Destination/Compressor setting ...

-paul.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 2, 2013 at 12:03:55 am

[Paul Figgiani] "Is there something else needed other than what's already supported?"

MyCometG3 ended development of x264 Quicktime Component around November 2011. Quicktime itself is fading fast. I wouldn't be surprised if it's gone by OSX 10.9 this summer but if not then maybe 10.10 (or would that be 11) in mid 2014.

There should be "native" support for the codec as done in Telestream Episode or Sorenson Squeeze. That requires a commercial license.

Compressor 4 supports H.264 .mp4 but it's very limited in its feature set and it's still Apple's H.264 codec. I'll be polite but it's not known as one of the better implementations. Sure the MyCometG3 x264 Quicktime Component still works but development on the component ended and Quicktime Component architecture is likely EOL.



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Rafael Amador
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 2, 2013 at 12:03:05 pm

[Craig Seeman] "MyCometG3 ended development of x264 Quicktime Component around November 2011."
Craig,
Do you think that the x264 QT Component needs further development?

[Craig Seeman] "Quicktime itself is fading fast. I wouldn't be surprised if it's gone by OSX 10.9 this summer but if not then maybe 10.10 (or would that be 11) in mid 2014."
[Craig Seeman] "Quicktime Component architecture is likely EOL."
So what do you thing is the future?
What Apple gonna bring to replace the ".mov"?
What people gonna do with all that stuff and what manufacturers that are using ".mov" based recording formats will do?
Before the release of FCPX, many people was speculating with Apple support to MFX, but this didn't happens.
Which do you think is the future standard for Apple "ecosystem"?
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Paul Figgiani
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 2, 2013 at 12:52:05 pm

[Craig Seeman] "MyCometG3 ended development of x264 Quicktime Component around November 2011."

[Raf]
Craig,
Do you think that the x264 QT Component needs further development?

I'm curious about this as well. I wonder if the Telestream/Sorenson x264 support is updated and/or different than the last version of the publicly available QT Component?

thx.

-paul.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 2, 2013 at 3:22:18 pm

You might want to have a look here for x264 in Compressor:

http://library.creativecow.net/lawrence_david/Video-Purifier_and_x264/1


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Rafael Amador
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49:42 pm

[Paul Figgiani] "Do you think that the x264 QT Component needs further development?

I'm curious about this as well. I wonder if the Telestream/Sorenson x264 support is updated and/or different than the last version of the publicly available QT Component?"

The possibilities for development for top profiles are huge.
Of course, my question is around the Main/High Profile (YUV/420-8b) that most of us are using for web video.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 2, 2013 at 4:54:40 pm

Apple's own H.264 implementation does not allow the user to set High Profile or CABAC encoding.

What I find so incongruous in Apple's approach is that the company that pronounces optical disk is dead has the weakest implementation of H.264 for file based delivery. That's why it's on my Feature Request list. Of course maybe we'll see Apple implement the new H.265/HEVC in a big way so they have no interest in improving their H.264 implementation or paying for a commercial x264 license.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 2, 2013 at 9:55:24 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Of course maybe we'll see Apple implement the new H.265/HEVC in a big way"

Craig, you're our resident compression expert. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?

I know HEVC is promising larger rasters, higher frame rates, and lower bitrates, but that's about it. Can I think of the difference between HEVC and AVC as roughly analogous to the difference between AVC and MPEG-2? Could you please you describe a bit about where in the industry HEVC is likely to be adopted first, or maybe point me to some good reading?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 5, 2013 at 5:18:18 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Could you please you describe a bit about where in the industry HEVC is likely to be adopted first, or maybe point me to some good reading?"

Of course a lot of the articles are positive but I think that's a good indicator of where the market will go.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57498163-93/hevc-a-new-weapon-in-codec-war...

Qualcomm has been well into this for a year publicly.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57387626-78/qualcomm-shows-horsepower-...

Once this gets into mobile phones and tablets (and I think it will fairly quickly) use is going to spread quickly. MainConcept already has an SDK ready.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57501769-93/new-hevc-video-compression-win...
It may be the thing that makes 4K TV practical. Of course in that case I'm not sure it will mean anything to the consumer, many of whom can barely discern HD. More likely cable providers will want to exploit lower bandwidth requirements but that's going to take much longer given the hardware changes they may need.

It's currently very slot to encode which either means a boon to companies providing enterprise class encoders. While the cost to encode may go up, the decrease in file size storage and lower bandwidth to deliver may make up for that. The mobile, not the TV market, will drive this decision making.

http://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/284-h-265-aka-hevc-the-next-gen...
BTW RedShark, based in the UK, is a new online publication that might be worth paying attention to.

The interesting thing is how fast some hardware manufacturers are moving on this before one even knows what the demand will be. Broadcaster Encoders already coming to market.
http://www.allegrodvt.com/broadcast/index.php?option=com_content&view=artic...

Ericsson is doing a lot work on research and implementation. While this is pretty simple it does give you an aesthetic overview.






This is more technical






and this from MainConcept







So what does this all allude to. I think a much bigger market push for adoption that H.264 saw. The practical for mobile is the most obvious.

Ironically HEVC uses CABAC entropy (as can H.264) which Apple still has not implemented in its H.264 encoding!


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Walter Soyka
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 5, 2013 at 5:26:52 pm

Craig, this post is simply stunning. Well above and beyond. I regret that I have but one Like to give.

Many, many thanks for taking the time to put this together!

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 5, 2013 at 7:16:42 pm

Tangentially it's interesting to ponder how Apple is going to handle all this.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 2, 2013 at 4:48:58 pm

[Paul Figgiani] "Craig,
Do you think that the x264 QT Component needs further development?"


Why? QT Components will be dead soon. That's my point. QT is EOL on the Mac I suspect.

[Paul Figgiani] "I wonder if the Telestream/Sorenson x264 support is updated and/or different than the last version of the publicly available QT Component?"

They certainly are. x264 continues to advance. The QT Component version is dead though. It hasn't been touched in a year and there's no motive to given QT Components may no longer be supported.

I'm not sure how closely you follow this forum but permeated throughout is that AVFoundation is replacing Quicktime.



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Rafael Amador
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 3, 2013 at 4:02:34 am

Craig,
For de little I know about HVEC (Wikipedia), is a delivery codec, thought i guess will have good options for acquisition too.
But, what about production?
How you see the future for a "virtually uncompressed" codec/format for production and high quality archiving?
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 5, 2013 at 4:37:22 pm

[Rafael Amador] "But, what about production?
How you see the future for a "virtually uncompressed" codec/format for production and high quality archiving?"


A lot depends on how the market moves and why. There are so many dominos that need to hit that it could wind up in any number of directions.

It's hard to give a short answer but ultimately people will want to edit with it real time and as chip makers build in decoding (one hopes as that's critical in the market) people will need to upgrade their computers.

As to archiving, it depends what you consider "archive." I'm not necessarily going to say your camera master files will be smaller because, with higher efficiency comes the push to more data. 4K might become a bit more reasonable in file sizes for example.

It took a while for H.264 to get into the acquisition and post production workflow. HEVC (H.265) might move a bit faster, but only a bit, given a lot has to happen on encode and decode.

If you think H.264 encoding is slow, wait 'till you deal with HEVC encoding (wait being the operative word). No doubt they'll be those trying to accelerate it of course (one hopes).

Personally I think HEVC stands a very good chance in the market place. I think they'll be a big push in the mobile arena given online content providers are up against end user/viewer data speeds and data caps. I understand cable operators are interested because it can free up bandwidth... but they seem much slower to move.

Visually it's probably the same quality of H.264 High Profile at a reduction of nearly half the data. I think the near future post workflow won't make it a pleasant archival format. Heck I'm half suspecting Apple is going to do something to follow ProRes at some point.


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Markus Peek
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 12, 2013 at 12:09:10 am

Is there a reason you aren't using Handbrake instead? It's free, faster, and higher quality than Compressor. It's what I always use if I'm encoding on local drive.

H.264 is going to be around a long time. Even when H.265/HEVC hardware decoder chips are embedded into consumer devices, they will still decode H.264. Just like H.264 chips today still decode MPEG-2.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Jan 12, 2013 at 12:31:58 am

What if one wants to burn in timecode or add a watermark?
What if one has a batch encode to several different codecs?
That and other reasons are why people buy Telestream Episode or Squeeze with x264 support.

Handbreak is great at x264 encoding and it does allow access to some of the deeper parameters but it's also missing features for diverse encoding needs.



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Bernhard Grininger
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Feb 5, 2013 at 9:46:10 am

Hello,

please don't forget to write a Feature Request to Apple!
Discussing here is nice but a FR could actually help.

I also hope Apple will license the open source H.265 HEVC
successor of x264; (it's not named x265 – no relation to x264)

Best regards,
Bernhard


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Anmol Mishra
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Feb 11, 2015 at 11:56:25 am

Could someone please post an archive of the x264 component or dmg ? Only the source is archived at github and myCometG3 no longer hosts the file.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Feb 11, 2015 at 3:46:10 pm

Possibly here
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/24173/x264encoder



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Anmol Mishra
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Feb 11, 2015 at 3:58:37 pm

Does not download and points to a dead link.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Feb 11, 2015 at 4:45:12 pm

Maybe this?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/x264qtcodec.berlios/files/latest/download

You do know the reason it's gone is that Apple EOLd Quicktime Frameworks development. It never progressed beyond 32 bit.

The current version of Compressor can closely match x264 when using High Profile CABAC encoding.
Otherwise you can always use Handbrake.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Feb 11, 2015 at 5:15:11 pm

Episode also has x264, but I agree with Craig that Compressor comes very close these days.


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Anmol Mishra
Re: Craig: x264 encoder implementation in Compressor?
on Feb 12, 2015 at 4:21:03 am

The berlios version is from 2006. I do know that qt is deprecated. Unfortunately I only have fcp7 hence I have to look for 2011 component version


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