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Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app

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Brad Jordan
Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 3:47:24 pm

Even though people are rightfully angry with the omission of so many pro features. I'm hopeful those features will return quickly (as in weeks as opposed to months). In the meantime, I really am surprisingly enjoying getting into the guts of this thing. If you really start digging into it, I believe you'll find some things that will make workflows more efficient down the road after the learning curve. I'm not saying I'm finding this "bug free" or without glaring limitations. But, actually "playing" with the app is giving me a better appreciation what Apple has done and looks like they are going to do going forward. I am NOT saying it is acceptable in its current form.

When I first opened this thing, I was taken aback and disappointed. It actually requires one to start using it to understand it is more than iMovie Pro. I am not trying to defend Apple, but I am starting to feel a bit better about what is to come (at least it better) in getting back our pro features. I still have FCP 7 and will be going back and forth based on my needs.

I've been going through Steve Martin's FCP-X tutorials from Ripple Training and I'm finding that this new "paradigm" while a pain in the a** right now to learn is going to make some of the tedious editing tasks less of a pain.

Just my thoughts. No need to flame with rants that have already been made. I've sent my complaints/suggestions to Apple via the way I believe they'll listen and now I'd like to be able to come to The Cow and start learning from everyone as they dig into this strange new app.



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Michael Hancock
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 3:50:19 pm

[Brad Jordan] "I'm finding that this new "paradigm" while a pain in the a** right now to learn is going to make some of the tedious editing tasks less of a pain."

Genuine question - what tedious tasks is it making easier? I haven't used the software and may not ever, but I'd be interested to hear what they're doing to improve editing.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Jonathan Dortch
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58:43 pm

[Michael Hancock] "Genuine question - what tedious tasks is it making easier? I haven't used the software and may not ever, but I'd be interested to hear what they're doing to improve editing."

Using the Metadata for logging, labeling, organizing, searching, media. It's like having a little robot for an assistant.

I keep my stock music library in iTunes, so having iTunes access via the program with instant drag/drop into the timeline instead of bouncing to iTunes, finding the track, making sure it's converted to AIFF, importing to FCP and then dropping it in... takes about 2 seconds now instead of 2 minutes.

Might start doing the same thing for Aperture or iPhoto for any photos used an edit.

The structure of the Event system keeping track of an copying all files used in an edit greatly facilitates wrapping out/transferring projects. No more manually making sure all of your elements are sourced to the client drive.

Very intuitive integration with Motion for the first time to create FCP effects/transitions/text.

JONATHAN DORTCH
BLACK WOLF CREATIVE


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Brad Jordan
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 3:59:52 pm

What Jonathan said. :-)



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Paul Figgiani
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:15:49 pm

I have to agree with Brad on this. I think everyone is jumping the gun. OTOH, I totally understand the frustrations. What I find confusing is why would one not assume that apple has full intention of adding all documented missing features that Pro's need?? And this stuff about not "understanding" the lack of support to open legacy projects - it's not that difficult: FCP 7 is build on an entirely different foundation using antiquated Frameworks. That being said, I do believe apple needs to come up with something with regards to legacy project support. I think they will.

I just installed a new video card in a 2006 1,1 MacPro. FCPX is extremely snappy and responsive. Night and Day compared to FCP 7. It's going to interesting to see what happens and what is said when most, if not all of the "missing" features are added. eventually.

-paul.


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Michael Hancock
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:52:29 pm

[Jonathan Dortch] "Using the Metadata for logging, labeling, organizing, searching, media. It's like having a little robot for an assistant."

I like the concept of this, but how do you use this to keep your stuff really organized? Example - I always have bins for Graphics, Titles, SFX, Renders, Old Sequences, Music, VO, etc... Can you still organize this way in FCPX? Or do I have to select all my SFX and tag them with SFX, tag all Titles with Title, all music with Music, etc?

[Jonathan Dortch] "The structure of the Event system keeping track of an copying all files used in an edit greatly facilitates wrapping out/transferring projects. No more manually making sure all of your elements are sourced to the client drive."

Regarding the Events folder - sounds like FCP is finally doing a good job of media management. A mix between Avid and FCP/Premiere. You can edit with the footage where it lies, or have it transcode it all to one folder for easy backup/tracking. I started on Avid so this would be a welcome addition for media tracking - just not sure I'm ready to give up how my footage is organized once it's in the program. I'm looking forward to tutorials that explain this in further depth.

Any more hidden gems?

Michael

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Brad Jordan
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 3:59:10 pm

Depends on your personal workflow. Others are repulsed by the Magnetic Timeline and the storyline, clip linking and the overall change. I actually am finding it speeding up my editing. It certainly would help if Apple would provide a 30 day trial version as they did with iWork so people wouldn't have to plunk $299 down without knowing if they'd like the new workflow and changes.

What's tedious for me may not be for you. I didn't come from the "Pro" background when I started with FCP 1.0. I'm one of the lowly scum (at least that's it sounds from the dismissive comments of some other Cow members) that doesn't work in Broadcast or high end. Was glad to see some user tips and actual usage questions start popping up on the forum as opposed to the repetitive rants. The Cow has been a great place for me to learn and profit from the video trade. Just because I'm part time & have my studio in my house doesn't mean I'm any less "Pro". Was disheartening to see my opinions and comments discounted because of this. (Rant not directed at you, Michael - Just needed to rant).



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Jamie Franklin
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:23:56 pm

[Brad Jordan] " Just because I'm part time & have my studio in my house doesn't mean I'm any less "Pro". Was disheartening to see my opinions and comments discounted because of this."

Sorry I have to chime in on this...Who would discount this? And why?

Question. As a small studio, can you say you can use this program to deliver broadcast quality material?


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Jonathan Dortch
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:30:04 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "Question. As a small studio, can you say you can use this program to deliver broadcast quality material?"

If you're delivering a program stream to FTP then yeah probably. We've delivered all broadcast spots that way for the last three years through DG Fastchannel.

But yes FCPX is still an editing program. You can hit a runtime, edit in Prores at 1920, do a mix and apply your broadcast safe filters. Encode your program stream in Compressor and you'll be out the door.

If you need to output to tape, then you'll need to stick to FCP7.

JONATHAN DORTCH
BLACK WOLF CREATIVE


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Jamie Franklin
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:38:46 pm

[Jonathan Dortch] "But yes FCPX is still an editing program. You can hit a runtime, edit in Prores at 1920, do a mix and apply your broadcast safe filters. Encode your program stream in Compressor and you'll be out the door."

And how do you reference with confidence? You can't grade it, so what do you do?

How do you deliver audio? Can you deliver separate dialogue and M&E track?

these are legit questions by the way...


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Jonathan Dortch
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:48:58 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "And how do you reference with confidence? You can't grade it, so what do you do?"

You can't reference on an NTSC monitor yet... really lame. Probably have to wait on third party support, the software is only a day old.

There are scopes and full color correction tools at least as powerful as FCP7 from my limited use.

[Jamie Franklin] "How do you deliver audio? Can you deliver separate dialogue and M&E track?"

No OMF but there is still the ability to export Audio only from the timeline, and it's actually easier/quicker to do in a variety of formats (AIFF, AAC, CAF, WAV). You can separate your audio into proper stems and export accordingly.

JONATHAN DORTCH
BLACK WOLF CREATIVE


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Chris Harlan
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 5:53:38 pm

How can you make stems? There are no tracks or assignable channels. The ONLY way to make stems is to turn off all clips that are not, say, dialog and then render out, then turn all back on and repeat for each stem. So technically, it is possible, but extremely tedious. Or am I blind? Am I missing something? I'd sure like to be, but really, I don't think you can say that you can render out stems in any meaningful way.


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Brad Jordan
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:34:15 pm

If you look through the comments and rants on this forum, the overwhelming tone is that FCP-X is just fine for the non-Pro. Simply providing Broadcast material isn't the only "Pro" profession. I get paid for my services (and paid well) providing physical media (DVD and Blu-Ray) and digital media via Web for events, weddings and corporate work. I don't plan or need to be working in Broadcast.

It was just an observation as I "lurked" reading the comments made by people. Anyone that made a positive comment about the app is labeled an Apple apologist or someone that just tinkers with video toys to make home movies or skateboard videos (which, by the way are a very profitable business).

The Cow community has been a great place to come learn, but now I feel there is kind of a elite class that looks down on non-Broadcast editors or hold them in lower esteem. Doesn't mean I won't continue to come to learn. Just my opinion that the welcoming nature of the board seems tarnished.



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Jamie Franklin
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:45:12 pm

Oh come on...

Apple had a 54% market share in *broadcast*...they were dominating...and imovie and idvd could handle the requirements of those not requiring broadcast standards...effin sake I've used it for those things too...but that's not denigrating your business model, it's denigrating Apple for spitting in the eye of that 54%...there is nothing wrong with imovie pro...just don't try and sell it under the final cut pro name....i'm glad you have a robust tool at an affordable price, although even that's arguable to me now...this should have cost $100, no more... :D


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Matt Callac
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 5:11:31 pm

[Brad Jordan] "skateboard videos (which, by the way are a very profitable business)."

now not only are you an editor, but you've got street cred in my book. I'm a skater.

-mattyc


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Brad Jordan
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 5:15:41 pm

Matt, Do you know Chris Theissen with Transworld Skateboarding? He's a videographer with them. I produced his wedding last July. Great guy. Super talent.



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Matt Callac
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 5:27:14 pm

[Brad Jordan] " Matt, Do you know Chris Theissen with Transworld Skateboarding? He's a videographer with them. I produced his wedding last July. Great guy. Super talent."

No, I don't know any industry folks. Huge fan of the transworld vids though. Chris Ray/John holland seem to be 2 of the only guys that make skate vids that actually understand editing. Other than Ty evans and french fred.

-mattyc


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:12:37 pm

I'm providing broadcast material. I'm also providing film material. Remember, the celluloid strip with perforation on both sides? I'm very angry at what Apple just did. So I perfectly fit the description of a member of "elite class" you refer to. So please let me tell you why the riot that's going on here is fully justified.

Were you using FCP7 a while ago? Did you like it? I guess you did. So it happens the tool well designed for my type of work is just as good for your type of work. Unfortunately the reverse isn't the case.

We both paid for previous versions of FCP. Apple took my money just as gladly as yours. But they decided to spend it on something that's good for you but totally useless for me. And there are strong technical and economical reasons to believe they are not going to add the stuff I need any time soon.

I'm sure your client are as demanding as mine but I have added pressure of having a number of colleagues working on the same project up and down the production pipeline. And to be honest any of them can screw things up any moment. So I'm constantly looking for a way to shave a second on any task I'm doing to catch up the deadline. That means you have the luxury of being less efficient than me if you feel so. Doesn't mean that you wish to be but you can afford more than I.

I don't advertise myself as "Broadcast Editor", "Online Editor" or "Film Editor". I'm just an editor so if someone comes to me asking to cut something for web or DVD delivery I must do it unless the subject is objectionable to me. Especially when I'm not freelancing but work for a facility. That means I'm probably as good at what you do as you, at least technically.

The fact you don't intend to provide "broadcast material" doesn't mean you won't do it one day. The client comes and asks for DCP instead of BluRay and you're suddenly a member of the same "elite class". We don't do some particular work to boast about it on the COW. We do it because it pays our bills.


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Brad Jordan
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:20:26 pm

You just confirmed my point. I never said the riot wasn't justified. But your patronizing post just showed why I'm so turned off by the Cow forums now. I understand you're pissed. Just stop rubbing it in people's faces that have heard your complaint, understand your complaint, hope it gets fixed as much as you and would like to start moving on to learn this software to decide if I need to stick with it or jump ship. Peace.



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Tim Wilson
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 24, 2011 at 1:04:15 am

[Brad Jordan] "I understand you're pissed. Just stop rubbing it in people's faces...who would like to start moving on to learn this software to decide if I need to stick with it or jump ship. Peace"

I noted this below, but I want to reiterate that we hear you Brad, and we agree. This particular forum serves as an important place to let off steam, but we've also seen that many of you -- approaching most of you already, by the end of the second day -- are ready to get to work, or at least try to.

So please do pay a visit to the FCP X Techniques forum that you'll also find linked in the orange nav bar above.

And for the record, Creative COW Magazine has featured wedding videography, the founder's son was a sponsored skateboarder on the pro circuit, and I can't WAIT for the summer X Games to roll back around. Skateboarding is one of the coolest things I watch on my 3DTV. :-)

In any case, swing by the FCP X Techniques forum for some cooler-headed conversation about this.

Also for the record, we've seen the growing incivility you're talking about Brad, especially in the Final Cut forums, which is sadly, sadly ironic given the grief that EVERY FCP user got in the beginning. We've tried to figure out a way to address this. If anyone has any ideas, please start a thread in the Letters To The COW Team forum.

Best,

Tim Wilson
Creative COW


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Matt Callac
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:42:34 am

[Tim Wilson] "And for the record, Creative COW Magazine has featured wedding videography, the founder's son was a sponsored skateboarder on the pro circuit, and I can't WAIT for the summer X Games to roll back around. Skateboarding is one of the coolest things I watch on my 3DTV. :-)"

Give us the name,tim, don't hold back.

-mattyc


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David Burch
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 7:51:25 pm

I'm having the same experience, and as such am crossing my fingers that they will make good on adding certain crucial features (multiclip, XML, tape output). Even if they only added multiclip, FCPX would be a worthwhile program for my workflow and able to replace the old software for most of my work. Without it, I'm stuck using the FCP 7 for the lion's share of what I do, even if it's only for a portion of the project.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Otherwise enjoying "hidden gems" within the app
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:32:53 pm

I've been using it since release and am really loving it. My workflow has significantly increased due to the power of this application. I too miss many of the features form FCP 7 and would like to see most if not all placed back. Yep - there's a learning curve, but the new means of organization actually is so much better for me. I can easily see myself months from now wondering how I ever got along on FCP 7 and before.

Don't get me wrong though. Apple needs to put some things back. I know they're a market leader and forward thinking company, but some fundamental features should have been left alone and brought over.

From what I can tell, the future is very bright for FCP and not just on the desktop. I try not to think of FCP as an island, but it's role in the bigger picture of QT X (AV Foundation), iOS, upcoming displays, Python scripting, and portable devices. As technology changes the idea of "pro" will adjust (albeit from Apple or whoever) as well.

Tangier


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Tim Wilson
New COW Forum: FCPX Techniques
on Jun 23, 2011 at 11:19:53 pm

We know that there are thousands of folks who are ready to get to work with FCP X, so I wanted you to know that we've just opened a new forum, FCPX Techniques.

We're migrating appropriate threads there from here, where they may have gotten lost in the stampede, but we're also looking forward to lots of new conversations about how to actually USE this thing.

See you next door!

Tim Wilson and the team at Creative COW


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