FORUMS: list search recent posts

Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Oliver Peters
Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Nov 30, 2012 at 11:39:28 pm

Time to rant a bit. I just went through another edit with X that should have been a piece of cake and wasn't. Weekly price-and-item retail commercial with new audio cut into a donut. First of all, copy and pasting the donut messes up the audio levels and pans on some of the clips. That's probably due to promoting the project from a previous version. I get that and can deal with it, but it doesn't explain why only the pasted project is messed up and not the one it was copied from.

OK, second issue. Why is it that when I compound the audio (all detached as connected clips) and then open the compound in a timeline, some of the clips are arbitrarily put into the primary storyline, but others stay as connected clips? When you look at the audio components in the timeline that includes this compound, you see two channels - one for storyline and one for connected. Obviously they are that way inside the compound, but why and through what rhyme or reason?

Trackless would be a bit more acceptable if it actually worked as expected, instead of the junk that some software engineer threw together in the codec. FWIW, this was less of a PITA in the previous version before Apple decided to "fix" the audio editing issues.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 2:26:36 am

I think you need a hug and a beer.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 2:31:46 am

Mmm..... beer.....

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 5:23:20 am

[Oliver Peters] "Time to rant a bit. I just went through another edit with X that should have been a piece of cake and wasn't. Weekly price-and-item retail commercial with new audio cut into a donut. First of all, copy and pasting the donut messes up the audio levels and pans on some of the clips. That's probably due to promoting the project from a previous version. I get that and can deal with it, but it doesn't explain why only the pasted project is messed up and not the one it was copied from."

Meaning it messed up the clip you are pasting, or the pasted clip messes up other clips?

[Oliver Peters] "OK, second issue. Why is it that when I compound the audio (all detached as connected clips) and then open the compound in a timeline, some of the clips are arbitrarily put into the primary storyline, but others stay as connected clips? When you look at the audio components in the timeline that includes this compound, you see two channels - one for storyline and one for connected. Obviously they are that way inside the compound, but why and through what rhyme or reason?"

Hard to guess without looking, but if you had three overlapping clips then you wouldn't be able to put all of that in the primary so they have to connect.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 2:06:22 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Meaning it messed up the clip you are pasting, or the pasted clip messes up other clips?"

I am copying from a timeline that has a stringout of 8 x :30 donuts. The audio is all detached, with sync on-camera clips, sfx and music. I have a second working timeline that I update each week with the current spot. I select all the clips from one of the donuts on the stringout timeline, copy them and then paste then at the end of the other working timeline. There I make inserts to the new spot, using the previous week's spot as a template, which is still at the front of this timeline. When it's done I delete the old material at the head of the weekly timeline and export.

The clips on the stringout timeline are correctly mixed and correctly panned. When I paste the donut to the other timeline, some of the sync-sound detached clips change levels and panning. But not every one. Part of the mixing process I use is to collapse all of the audio clips into a compound clip. Then I add an audio compressor to the compound. Sometimes, when I compound the clip, the levels and pans have changed again and it's different inside or outside of the compound. It would seem to be something funky in the timeline I'm copying to that's affecting things. No way to tell. Right now I have two more weeks of this workflow and it's better just to muddle through, and then start clean if I do these spots again next year.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Hard to guess without looking, but if you had three overlapping clips then you wouldn't be able to put all of that in the primary so they have to connect."

What happens is that I compound only the audio. These all start as connected and detached clips. I would expect to open this compound and see only connected clips attached to a gap on the primary storyline. That's not what happens. Some of the audio clips had been moved into the primary storyline and others are connected, so their position no longer correctly reflects the timeline they came from. When you look in the inspector at the audio for the compound, it shows two "channels" - storyline and connected clips.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Nick Toth
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 6:08:47 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Some of the audio clips had been moved into the primary storyline and others are connected, so their position no longer correctly reflects the timeline they came from. "

If I understand what you're saying, this is normal behavior for clips inside of a compound clip whether audio, video or both. When you compound connected clips there has to be something on the primary storyline inside of the connected clip. Its sounds like you are looking for a gap clip to be created automatically to maintain your structure but that's not how compound clips work.

As far as the issue with your audio levels and panning, are you deleting render files for the project before doing a final render or export? When I'm working on spots and using a previous spot as the basis for a new I duplicate the project and do not include any of the media or render files. Copy and paste might be causing your problem by pulling along the previous render files. Not sure on this but it sounds like something I have run into before.

NT


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 6:28:45 pm

[Nick Toth] "When you compound connected clips there has to be something on the primary storyline inside of the connected clip."

Why? I can create a timeline with a gap in the primary and only audio connected to that gap. If I compound that example and then open the compound, it looks exactly the same as what I created. What I'm seeing in my problem spot is that some of the audio clips that should be connected to a gap, are in fact moved up into the primary storyline area. It's either because of being promoted after the 10.0.6 update or copy and pasting or the fact that in the original spot they are connected to a video clip. My guess is that the programming rules are wrong.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 7:09:58 pm

After a bit of simple testing, here's what's happening:

Timeline Condition 1
Start and end shots are on-camera clips with sync sound. The audio is detached as connected clips. Gap in between the two with a VO connected to the gap clip.
Compound only the audio.
Inside the compound, the three audio clips have been moved to the primary. Nothing is connected because there was no overlap.

Timeline Condition 2
Place a gap generator on a blank primary. Connect a VO clip to the gap.
Compound only the audio.
Inside the compound, it is the same as the original timeline. There's a gap with a connected clip. Audio has NOT been moved to the primary.

Obviously there are some programming rules that control this behavior, but whatever they are, they are not consistent.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 7:13:58 pm

[Oliver Peters] "My guess is that the programming rules are wrong."

Yeah, perhaps, at least unrefined.

What happens if you break it back apart?

I noticed the other day adding a 720p23.98 clip to 1080i timeline forced the clips field dominance from progressive to upper. I had to use the "field dominance override" metadata control and changed it back to progressive.

I now have an "overrides" metadata preset for this and color space on RGB images.

Jeremy


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 7:44:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "What happens if you break it back apart?"

The one that's audio and video (with all the clips on the primary in the audio-only compound) returns to being connected clips attached to the picture and gap. IOW, back to its starting position.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 7:56:33 pm

[Oliver Peters] ". IOW, back to its starting position."

What if you add a gap in the compound to make everything a connected clip?

This feels like a bug just like the 720p clips acquiring interlaced metadata.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 8:10:04 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "What if you add a gap in the compound to make everything a connected clip?"

Hey! What am I - your trained monkey? ;-)

I opened the compound where audio clips were moved to the primary. I selected the clips and did the "lift from storyline". This ended up with connected clips attached to the gap. Returned to the main timeline and it's correctly updated. You don't see any differences, but the inspector ID's the clips as "connected" and no longer as "storyline".

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio mixing is worse after the 10.0.6 update
on Dec 1, 2012 at 8:36:40 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Hey! What am I - your trained monkey? ;-)"

Ha! I'm happy to be the lab rat, but I'm not around a machine.

It sounds like some things are working correctly, some aren't. A bug.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]