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Rich Rubasch
New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 27, 2012 at 7:48:57 pm

http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/11/27/os-x-1083-beta-supports-amd-radeo...

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Steve Connor
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 27, 2012 at 8:19:24 pm

Still hoping "Sometime in 2013" means January!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 27, 2012 at 9:57:19 pm

Don't dash the hopes of those wishing for nVidia support.
All of the most recent Macs with non integrated GPUs are nVidia I believe.

One might hope that we're seeing this in 10.8.3 build because sometime during its life cycle the new Mac Pro replacement will be out. When I shake my Eight Ball it says affirmative when I ask about Q1 2013. It's one of those special Eight Balls that can actually fit the word "affirmative" in that little window.

Then there's:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/magic-wizard-ball/id488374157?mt=8
or
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/magic-8-ball/id447650548?mt=8



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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 27, 2012 at 10:11:23 pm

[Craig Seeman] "All of the most recent Macs with non integrated GPUs are nVidia I believe."

http://www.apple.com/macpro/features/graphics.html

Franz.


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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 27, 2012 at 10:13:48 pm

That's a 2010 antique with new hubcaps.

That's an "I'm not dead yet" Monty Python Holy Grail vestige.



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Gary Huff
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 27, 2012 at 11:29:00 pm

[Craig Seeman] "
One might hope that we're seeing this in 10.8.3 build because sometime during its life cycle the new Mac Pro replacement will be out. When I shake my Eight Ball it says affirmative when I ask about Q1 2013. It's one of those special Eight Balls that can actually fit the word "affirmative" in that little window."


My Eight Ball says Tim Cook was just B.S.-ing to keep some of the base from having a fit, and that the new iMac is as close as you're going to get for the foreseeable future.


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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 12:01:40 am

[Gary Huff] "My Eight Ball says Tim Cook was just B.S.-ing to keep some of the base from having a fit, and that the new iMac is as close as you're going to get for the foreseeable future."

Apparently your Eight Ball has nothing to do with this universe and Apple. Tim Cook is much more blunt honest than Jobs. Cook who apologizes for Maps and cans Forstall for not signing the apology (although there may be other deeper reasons). Of course maybe you think this whole AMD 7000 thing being supported in 10.8.3 beta is fictional as well. I guess the AMD 7000 series is going to be in the next iPad.

If you're going to make a statement at least use something resembling reasoning rather than trolling.



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Chris Harlan
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 12:24:13 am

[Craig Seeman] "[Gary Huff] "My Eight Ball says Tim Cook was just B.S.-ing to keep some of the base from having a fit, and that the new iMac is as close as you're going to get for the foreseeable future."

Apparently your Eight Ball has nothing to do with this universe and Apple. Tim Cook is much more blunt honest than Jobs. Cook who apologizes for Maps and cans Forstall for not signing the apology (although there may be other deeper reasons). Of course maybe you think this whole AMD 7000 thing being supported in 10.8.3 beta is fictional as well. I guess the AMD 7000 series is going to be in the next iPad."


My guess sits between the two of you. I think Tim Cook's good for the company, and he gives me some hope that Apple will listen a bit more. I think he was genuinely taken by surprise by the degree of adamant concern expressed at the Developers Convention, and that his promise of a 2013 something that will sit in the Mac Pro spot was sincere. I tend to agree with with Gary that it was an impromptu reaction to the negative response. Where I disagree, is that I think he/they will actually make good on it. Whether we all like what we get is another matter, but I think some sort of semi-expandable workstation will show up before June of next year. Craig, I think you modular explorations have been interesting, and it might be something like that, but I do agree with Gary that Cook's initial responses felt a whole lot like damage control.


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Marcus Moore
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 2:01:24 am

I tend to find spin entirely devoid of specifics. Cook said 2013. That's a wide target to shoot for, and gives them ample wiggle room for delays- but it's a time range nonetheless.

Let's remember that Apple has been conservative and vague with release dates before. Both 10.0.3 and 10.0.6 were pre announced as "EARLY 2012" and just "2012" respectively. And in both cases people predicted much much more pessimistic launch dates that what Apple actually released. "EARLY 2012" was January 31st, and "2012" ended up being october 23rd.

My estimate on timing of these machine is entirely depends on whether they're waiting to be able to deliver them alongside Retina Cinema Displays. If they are, then there's no question that we're looking at the back half of the year. Apple just isn't ready to put out a double 2560x1440 display. I'm not even sure what graphics card could drive a 5120x2880 display.

If they're not, then it could come much earlier in the year. Whenever Intel releases the Xeon with USB and Thunderbold native support.



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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 3:51:24 am

[Chris Harlan] "I think he was genuinely taken by surprise by the degree of adamant concern expressed at the Developers Convention,"

It's certainly possible. I wouldn't think he anticipated it. I don't think there was anything deceptive or dishonest in his response. I think he was revealing what he already knew but may not have intended to be public with it.

[Chris Harlan] "it was an impromptu reaction to the negative response. "

Although I don't think the promise just sprung to mind. I think the concern resulted in him revealing a bit of future road map that he probably was intending on exposing otherwise. That he did is another example of Cook's ability to give a blunt response compared to Jobs.



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Chris Harlan
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 5:47:34 am

[Craig Seeman] " I don't think there was anything deceptive or dishonest in his response. "

I agree. I think his response was completely genuine.

[Craig Seeman] " I think he was revealing what he already knew but may not have intended to be public with it."

Maybe. And maybe not. Maybe they had decided that a workstation was unnecessary until they saw the ruckus first hand. I'm sure that somewhere at Apple there was some development going on, whether or not they had determined that workstations were in their future or not. I'm sure there is a lot of alternative development going on all the time.

[Craig Seeman] "Although I don't think the promise just sprung to mind. I think the concern resulted in him revealing a bit of future road map that he probably was intending on exposing otherwise. That he did is another example of Cook's ability to give a blunt response compared to Jobs."

We';re both in tea-leaves-ville here. I don't think his promise just sprung to mind, but I do think it came out of several days of conversations. My tea leaves say that the roadmap lead away from Workstation/Servers altogether. I think he's surrounded by people who are strongly of that mind. And I think the conference startled him. And the fact that he could react to that the way he did shows excellent leadership to me. But, you could be completely right.

The single brightest new sign for me is the fast adoption of USB3. That's a decision that I thought should have been made a long time ago. Its seems like the kind of concession to reality that Apple sometimes has a hard time making. It's made me think about sticking around a while longer.


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Marcus Moore
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 4:35:08 pm

I don't think it was a hard decision for Apple at all. They waited for Ivey Bridge's native support of USB3 on the chip. Which is likely why there is no more substantial intermediary MacPro update this year, since the 2012 Xeons still don't have USB3 or TB on chip either.

I think leaving the machine on the market is their way of saying it's not going away (which is all Jim Dalrymple every said, which sparked all the WWDC refresh rumours), but the half hearted update says, "Unless you must- wait.".

In a perfect world, we would see less emphasis on the consumer secrecy around the Pro products. But I'm not sure a company can have two stances on that. FCPX has has the most open roadmap of any Apple product in recent memory. Though I think that window will close as the remaining legacy features are integrated. Once the features are 100% forward-looking again, I don't think we'll get any more previews.



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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 6:02:15 pm

[Marcus Moore] "They waited for Ivey Bridge's native support of USB3 on the chip"

Yes. For those who complain about how "slow" Apple was in adopting USB3, they may not be aware of how major motherboard support is relative to getting the full advantage of USB3 in many cases. One might look at the Blackmagic Shuttle USB3 input device which they only certified for ONE MSI laptop precisely because of USB3 issues.

[Marcus Moore] "no more substantial intermediary MacPro update this year, since the 2012 Xeons still don't have USB3 or TB on chip either."

Yes again. I don't see any reason why Apple would determine Xeon processors no longer have a purpose, nor more powerful GPUs for that matter. This is especially so given the demands FCPX and Motion can make on a system. Delivery is very much dependent on Thunderbolt as you note.

Apple wasn't "shocked" into reconsidering a "power box." The technology for what Apple wants to deliver hasn't been delivered yet.

[Marcus Moore] "Though I think that window will close as the remaining legacy features are integrated. Once the features are 100% forward-looking again, I don't think we'll get any more previews."

True. Much of what Apple reveals is about what some would call "catch up" features. Features unique to FCPX aren't talked about in advance and I personally think that's a sensible thing to do in a competitive environment.

Apple has never been very forward about future hardware of any kind. Tim Cook's revelation may have been forced to public exposure early but only in that he acknowledged something is in the works for next year and little else.

Some people speculate that Apple has lost the ability to innovate with hardware but my own guess is that next year's MacPro replacement will be major. This does not mean everyone will like it but I can't help but think the Xeon, GPU use, Thunderbolt combination will be unique and valuable to many professionals. At least it will be to those who see value in Thunderbolt but need something a bit more than Quad i7.



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Chris Harlan
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 6:34:07 pm

[Craig Seeman] "[Marcus Moore] "They waited for Ivey Bridge's native support of USB3 on the chip"

Yes. For those who complain about how "slow" Apple was in adopting USB3, they may not be aware of how major motherboard support is relative to getting the full advantage of USB3 in many cases. One might look at the Blackmagic Shuttle USB3 input device which they only certified for ONE MSI laptop precisely because of USB3 issues."


Craig, I'm sorry. Have you watched the way USB3 was adapted and used by high end PCs over the last several years? Maybe you haven't been in an environment where you have felt or seen the disadvantage, but I have. There are many more USB3 uses that the Blackmagic box. One of the problems with talking to Mac-only folk is the degree to which they are cocooned off from the rest of the world. I think it should actually be called "One Button Mouse Syndrome."

[Craig Seeman] "Apple wasn't "shocked" into reconsidering a "power box." The technology for what Apple wants to deliver hasn't been delivered yet."

Craig, you called Gary out fairly roughly above for prognosticating without any facts. I'd say the same goes here. What you are stating is a belief. Your faith in Apple colors you opinion every bit as much, and probably more so, than Gary's doubt colors his. From my position, I'd say his is far more realistic, but I don't have any more info than anybody else does, so I don't tend to get so emphatic about my own cloud readings.


[Craig Seeman] "True. Much of what Apple reveals is about what some would call "catch up" features. Features unique to FCPX aren't talked about in advance and I personally think that's a sensible thing to do in a competitive environment.
"


Has there been anything other than "catchup" features?


[Craig Seeman] "my own guess is that next year's MacPro replacement will be major. This does not mean everyone will like it but I can't help but think the Xeon, GPU use, Thunderbolt combination will be unique and valuable to many professionals. At least it will be to those who see value in Thunderbolt but need something a bit more than Quad i7."

That would be great. I hope you are right.


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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 6:51:58 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Craig, I'm sorry. Have you watched the way USB3 was adapted and used by high end PCs over the last several years? Maybe you haven't been in an environment where you have felt or seen the disadvantage, but I have. There are many more USB3 uses that the Blackmagic box. One of the problems with talking to Mac-only folk is the degree to which they are cocooned off from the rest of the world. I think it should actually be called "One Button Mouse Syndrome.""

A huge amount of my work involves PCs. I also understand Apple doesn't accept what it believes are technical compromises. Granted it's a company business philosophy that can be a problem for many. There's certainly been USB3 PCIe cards for MacPros. The issue is laptops and once Intel started supporting USB3 directly, Apple included them. It's Apple's threshold. I think you will continue to see Apple hold to that standard.

[Chris Harlan] " Your faith in Apple colors you opinion every bit as much, and probably more so"

No "faith" in Apple. It's my analysis of their business model. I don't necessarily like Apple's business decisions. I do make the effort to understand them. I do that by following past patterns and how they evolve. With Jobs vs Cook it's also how they've each handled company challenges.


[Chris Harlan] "Has there been anything other than "catchup" features?"

Everything that makes FCPX fundamentally different. The whole connected clip, secondary story line, avoidance of clip collision, roles, organizing by keywords rather than traditional bins, skimming, are, at best, only distantly related to traditional NLEs. The whole "rethink" is nothing at all to do with catchup.



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Chris Harlan
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 7:53:22 pm

[Craig Seeman] "A huge amount of my work involves PCs. I also understand Apple doesn't accept what it believes are technical compromises. "

Yeah, but under Jobs that "technical compromise" could be a belief that a second mouse button was un-needed, or dual layer DVD was unnecessary (the "Super Drive" was what, a year--two years--behind other dual layer drives), or that the internal component arrangement that no one would ever see wasn't elegantly arranged enough. To me, Tim Cook seems more reasonable.


[Craig Seeman] "There's certainly been USB3 PCIe cards for MacPros. The issue is laptops and once Intel started supporting USB3 directly, Apple included them."

Intel's decision has certainly made it easier for them, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have gone with a 3rd party controller a few years earlier. Conversely, they could have ignored the new USB3 support, as they have with other chipset features in the past. But, hey--we can all agree that its great that its there now.

[Craig Seeman] "With Jobs vs Cook it's also how they've each handled company challenges.
"


We definitely agree on that.


[Craig Seeman] "[Chris Harlan] "Has there been anything other than "catchup" features?"

Everything that makes FCPX fundamentally different. The whole connected clip, secondary story line, avoidance of clip collision, roles, organizing by keywords rather than traditional bins, skimming, are, at best, only distantly related to traditional NLEs. The whole "rethink" is nothing at all to do with catchup.
"


I think the point here is that you were saying that they don't announce new features, but do announce "catch up" features. So my remark had to do with things after the release, and not before.

Let me ask you this, because I think its where we can agree: Do you like what Tim Cook's brought to Apple thus far?


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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 8:48:35 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Yeah, but under Jobs that "technical compromise" could be a belief that a second mouse button was un-needed"

Least we forget the worst one button mouse of all, that hockey puck mouse

[Chris Harlan] "To me, Tim Cook seems more reasonable."

There's a major difference in style from "don't hold it that way" (iPhone antenna) to "Sorry" (iOS Maps). Cook seems very ready to handle public issues. It may well be part of Forstall's departure, Ive's promotion, Cue's dismissing the executive in charge of iOS Maps as just happened the other day.

[Chris Harlan] "Let me ask you this, because I think its where we can agree: Do you like what Tim Cook's brought to Apple thus far?"

It's hard to characterize differences in management styles in bites but here's my take.
Jobs was innovation and marketing at all costs. Cook is innovation and functionality at all costs.
I think the whole Forstall, Ive, Cue management shifts may be a good indicator of changes in company philosophy. John Browett's short lived retail tenure might also be an indicator in a different way. Basically it's that Cook will very quickly correct missteps and will not protect management responsible.

One challenge in some parts of evaluating the changes is we don't know to what extent Jobs influence is still being worked through. Other's are more obvious as the management changes (Forestall for example) would seem to be clearly Cook's decisions.

Some of the interesting design things are:
7" iPad remember Jobs position on that but it wasn't outside his tendency to reverse his own public positions.
New 21" iMac no user upgradable RAM like MBPr
New 27" iMac has user upgradable RAM
iPhone 5 and iPad 4 change in dock connector especially the change in the iPad within its product life cycle.
Which were Jobs and which were Cook's decisions?

We know what he's doing with management. We can only guess what he's doing with product lineups but that will crystalize over time. My hunch is that Cook is a lot more responsive to problems or, at least more visible with such decisions. For those of us who depend on these products for our livelihood, I think that's a good thing.



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Chris Harlan
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 10:12:55 pm

Excellant post! I'd quote it bit by bit but I'd be agreeing with most everything.


[Craig Seeman] "Some of the interesting design things are:
7" iPad remember Jobs position on that but it wasn't outside his tendency to reverse his own public positions.
New 21" iMac no user upgradable RAM like MBPr
New 27" iMac has user upgradable RAM
iPhone 5 and iPad 4 change in dock connector especially the change in the iPad within its product life cycle.
Which were Jobs and which were Cook's decisions?
"


This I have to chew on. Interesting observations.

One thing I have to say in defense of the 7" iPad is that I thought it was a stupid idea until I held one in my hand. I probably won't get one, but it really is interesting that you can hold it in one hand and sort of thumb through it. At least I can, but I've got very big hands.


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Steve Connor
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 10:16:49 pm

[Chris Harlan] "One thing I have to say in defense of the 7" iPad is that I thought it was a stupid idea until I held one in my hand. I probably won't get one, but it really is interesting that you can hold it in one hand and sort of thumb through it. At least I can, but I've got very big hands."

I got one a couple of weeks ago and after using it a lot it has now replaced my retina iPad3, I also have big hands!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Chris Harlan
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 10:25:51 pm

[Steve Connor] "Chris Harlan] "One thing I have to say in defense of the 7" iPad is that I thought it was a stupid idea until I held one in my hand. I probably won't get one, but it really is interesting that you can hold it in one hand and sort of thumb through it. At least I can, but I've got very big hands."

I got one a couple of weeks ago and after using it a lot it has now replaced my retina iPad3, I also have big hands!
"


I think it probably would for me, too. I probably would have chosen it over my retina iPad if it had been out at the time. Its funny, though, that I didn't think I'd have any use for it until I put it in my hand. I literally changed my mind about it in an instant.


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Marcus Moore
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 29, 2012 at 2:13:22 am




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Chris Harlan
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 28, 2012 at 6:11:22 pm

[Marcus Moore] "I don't think it was a hard decision for Apple at all. They waited for Ivey Bridge's native support of USB3 on the chip. Which is likely why there is no more substantial intermediary MacPro update this year, since the 2012 Xeons still don't have USB3 or TB on chip either."


Marcus, I don't really want to rehash this argument. Its been had over and over here, and at the end of the day its all speculation. I personally believe, as many others do, that USB3 should have been on Macs a good two to three years before it was finally available. Jobs spoke against adopting it, and I just don't think that policy was reversible while he was in the driver's seat. And, while I can see your argument for USB3 on portables, I don't think it follows for workstations. There were plenty of good reasons to have upgraded to newer chipsets last year or earlier this year if they were truly enthusiastic about workstations.

[Marcus Moore] "I think leaving the machine on the market is their way of saying it's not going away (which is all Jim Dalrymple every said, which sparked all the WWDC refresh rumours), but the half hearted update says, "Unless you must- wait."."

Well, no. I think the MacPro's aging architecture and WWDC's reputation for being a source of product announcements are what sparked the refresh rumors. Dalrymple was only one of many, many voices. If you need proof of that, just look at the conversations on this forum starting in the Fall of last year. You will clearly see the concern over/demand for a new Mac Pro, with growing speculation that WWDC might be the announce point. As for the other, that may be true. But the same argument was made for Shake, year after year, and that didn't pan out quite so well. And again, there were plenty of ways to refresh the MacPro line if they had been really interested in doing so.

[Marcus Moore] "In a perfect world, we would see less emphasis on the consumer secrecy around the Pro products. But I'm not sure a company can have two stances on that. FCPX has has the most open roadmap of any Apple product in recent memory. Though I think that window will close as the remaining legacy features are integrated. Once the features are 100% forward-looking again, I don't think we'll get any more previews.
"


Yes, FCP X has had an open roadmap, but I think that's due to unprecedented blowback. As is the case with the announcement of something that will fill the MacPro spot in the lineup. What that something is remains to be seen, but I believe it will be an honest attempt. As to "the remaining legacy features," I'm not sure what you mean, other than, perhaps, a mixer. There are a number of older FCP features that I doubt will ever be incorporated in X, simply because the underlying nature of X is so different, as is the focus of the software. The target audience is also different, as is reflected in their current ad campaign--"the Pro in all of us." You may see it differently, and that's fine. There are plenty of arguments for and against our POVs, but in the end its all stargazing, and we've gazed on those stars here many times over the last year and a half.


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Marcus Moore
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 29, 2012 at 2:32:46 am

Chris,

On the hardware side of things, sorry I haven't been privy to all the conversations around here. Understanding why Apple waits for native on-chip support is beyond me technically- I just recognize that it's something they seem to do. And perhaps as someone in a thread a couple months ago said, perhaps Apple felt like they'd rather not encourage people to buy in 2012 when they knew the "next big thing' was coming in 2013. Who knows?

Unquestionably Apple's openness about FCPX so far has been in response to it's poor start. Frankly I still think they could and should be doing more on the outreach side. My personal belief is that FCPX has a harder PR battle to fight than technical.

As to "remaining legacy features". You're right on mixing- I think Roles is only a half-there solution at this stage (but one which I think will hold huge benefits once fully implemented). The other is collaborative workflow, which was more FinalCutServer, but it's an area I think many still hold as a limitation vs legacy FCP. Tighter Motion integration needs to return as well. Those are the major areas, I think.



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Chris Harlan
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 29, 2012 at 3:04:19 am

[Marcus Moore] "The other is collaborative workflow, which was more FinalCutServer, but it's an area I think many still hold as a limitation vs legacy FCP. Tighter Motion integration needs to return as well. Those are the major areas, I think."

Stupid me. Yes, of course. I agree with both of those. Good point.


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Herb Sevush
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 29, 2012 at 12:33:02 pm

[Marcus Moore] " perhaps Apple felt like they'd rather not encourage people to buy in 2012 when they knew the "next big thing' was coming in 2013. Who knows?"

That is the funniest thing I've read on this forum all year.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 29, 2012 at 5:00:23 pm

When it comes to Mac Pros I think it's absolutely true.
Apple does not want people buying non Thunderbolt Macs. The lose of sales from the lack of new Mac Pros is inconsequential. They don't want to support old technology and they don't want you to buy a non Thunderbolt computer that you will keep in service for 3-6 years.



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Herb Sevush
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 29, 2012 at 9:52:29 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Apple does not want people buying non Thunderbolt Macs. The lose of sales from the lack of new Mac Pros is inconsequential. They don't want to support old technology and they don't want you to buy a non Thunderbolt computer that you will keep in service for 3-6 years."

Then why the half-assed update a few months ago and why are they still selling 2010s? The only thing their lack of a decent upgrade has caused in my case is the hesitation to buy any workstation from them in the future.

This is exactly like your assertion that FCP7 was eol'd because of licensing issues - and your refusal to back off this claim when they suddenly started selling it again after all the blowback. If they had licensing issues then they wouldn't have sold any more copies; if they don't watn to support old technology then they would stop selling 2010 MacPros, one of which they very happily sold me a few months ago. You don't get to have it both ways.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 29, 2012 at 10:21:50 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Then why the half-assed update a few months ago and why are they still selling 2010s?"

??? Because they don't want you to buy one unless you must as a short term solution (your last MacPro blew up for example). They're keeping a supply chain open with last revisions of that hardware.

[Herb Sevush] "This is exactly like your assertion that FCP7 was eol'd because of licensing issues - and your refusal to back off this claim when they suddenly started selling it again after all the blowback."

Licensing may have allowed to sell it without any commercial promotion and their may have been some cost to them for doing that. We don't know the terms of the license but some may allow one to service pre-existing customers.



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Herb Sevush
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 29, 2012 at 10:56:44 pm

[Craig Seeman] "??? Because they don't want you to buy one unless you must as a short term solution (your last MacPro blew up for example). "

That's funny because I don't remember them asking me why I was buying it, they just seemed happy to take my money. The last I looked they had MacPro's on display at my local Apple store, which is an interesting way of discouraging purchasers.

[Craig Seeman] " We don't know the terms of the license but some may allow one to service pre-existing customers."

Which would matter if they were only selling to pre-existing customers but they weren't.

Craig you can have your theories, since no one on this forum knows the truth, but your reasoning is as contorted as the path of Oswald's magic bullet.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 29, 2012 at 11:13:07 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The last I looked they had MacPro's on display at my local Apple store,"

I've been to four. In every case a single model in the back corner. Simply there to let people know if they need one. Very few people do, I'd expect given the price and the dated technology. In retail that would be discouraging purchases. It's there for those who MUST have one due to configuration issues not yet addressed.

[Herb Sevush] "but your reasoning is as contorted as the path of Oswald's magic bullet."

So my reasoning is now the official theory, despite its controversy?
Licensing is the lone FCP7 assassin then.



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Herb Sevush
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 30, 2012 at 2:06:52 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I've been to four. In every case a single model in the back corner. Simply there to let people know if they need one. Very few people do, I'd expect given the price and the dated technology. In retail that would be discouraging purchases."

You make it sound like the Apple store has some hidden dark dungeon you have to get to. Every Apple store I've been too is open and relatively well lit, the Mac pro is displayed just like all the other computers. Of course it's not in the center of the store, given it's small sales volume. I tell you what, I bet if/when they introduce your vision of a revised workstation it will be shown in that very same corner - befitting it's importance.

According to your reasoning any company producing and selling overpriced outdated products is in actuality merely trying to "discourage purchasers." I guess that must be Avid's concept with Isis, their just trying to "discourage purchasers" till they come out with their new extra cool networking product of the future. And here I was thinking they just had their collective head up their ass. This gives me a whole new way of looking at failing companies.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 30, 2012 at 2:49:10 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Every Apple store I've been too is open and relatively well lit, the Mac pro is displayed just like all the other computers."

Maybe you don't have experience in retail. It's buried at the back of the store for a reason. Available for sale and no reason to market it beyond that.

[Herb Sevush] "I tell you what, I bet if/when they introduce your vision of a revised workstation it will be shown in that very same corner - befitting it's importance."

Probably won't be a big "retail" item either. I'll bet pent up demand will result in increased sales relative the 2010/2012 model for the pros who need it though. I'll bet third party Thunderbolt developers will enjoy targeting a market that's willing to spend the higher cost of Thunderbolt devices that professionals need.

[Herb Sevush] "According to your reasoning any company producing and selling overpriced outdated products is in actuality merely trying to "discourage purchasers.""

If that's your opinion of Isis that certainly would explain Avid's situation. Avid needs Isis sales or they're dead. Apple does not need MacPro sales. A replacement help them though if it targets a market that spends a lot of money on third party products. That's the point of Thunderbolt. My Video I/O or RAID can work with anything from my laptop to my workstation, not possible with current MacPro, will be possible with MacPro replacement. That's greater value to the end user and third party Thunderbolt developer, encouraging professionals to stay within the Mac ecosystem (so Apple hopes).



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Marcus Moore
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 30, 2012 at 12:37:06 am

[Herb Sevush] "That's funny because I don't remember them asking me why I was buying it, they just seemed happy to take my money. The last I looked they had MacPro's on display at my local Apple store, which is an interesting way of discouraging purchasers."

To be realistic, if you drew two circles: one representing those who are potential MacPro buyers, and the other representing people who DON'T keep up with some measure of Apple news and rumours... I think the overlapping area would be incredibly small.



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Marcus Moore
Re: New MacPro closer to reality?
on Nov 30, 2012 at 12:32:16 am

It wasn't my original assertion, so I take no credit for your guffaws.



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