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Cameron Hall
upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 4:07:29 am

I would like some advice?
Is it worth the extra money to buy Final cut X or upgrade my existing Premiere Pro with motion on my Mac operating system?


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Craig Seeman
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 4:43:56 am

If you like Premiere and have an interest in FCPX do both. If you're on the Premiere subscription plan or paid for outright ownership, you have to consider how small an additional $300 is. That's assuming FCPX has value to you. Things don't have to be either/or at these prices.

On the other hand if you like one and don't want to invest time in the other than go with what you like.

You have to define "worth" for yourself for us to give you "worthwhile" advice.



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Mark Dobson
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 8:25:59 am

[Cameron Hall] "Is it worth the extra money to buy Final cut X or upgrade my existing Premiere Pro with motion on my Mac operating system?"

Craig's right it's not a lot of money.

And FCPX is available on a free 30 day trial basis.

What might be more crucial is the amount of time you are going to have to spend getting used to the new working protocol of FCPX. So if you are happy with the way you are working with Premier Pro you would find it easier to take that upgrade route.

However if you fancy a fresh editing experience FCPX 10.0.6 is a very different NLE system from the one that was released last June, our company has been making a living with it for a year and half, and it's slowly gaining traction in the broadcast market for certain kinds of jobs.


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Patrice Freymond
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 8:41:43 am

Another thing to take into consideration is your hardware. Aside from likes/dislikes of the philosophy behind the software I see a lot of frustrated people trying to run it on hardware that can't do it properly.

FCPX will satisfy you if it has the hardware to run on. Currently the best is a recent iMac with maxed RAM memory.

hope this helps,

Patrice Freymond

Editor  Certified Trainer FCP7/X
Post Consultant

Always learning...


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Bernard Newnham
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 10:08:06 am

Oh for goodness sakes!

Upgrade to CS6, because you know the system and it works perfectly well. Buy a pc version and a pc. Put the two together and there'll be be no more overpriced pretty gear, no more waiting, surmising, suggesting, hoping, wanting, angst-ing.......

And when you want to upgrade your box or boxes you just open the old one and put in the upgrade bits you need - a graphics card, an SSD, a power supply, memory, whatever, and carry on editing.

I realise - again - that this is heresy here but sometimes I just have to let go......

B

Bernie


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Mark Dobson
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 10:56:27 am

[Bernard Newnham] "Upgrade to CS6, because you know the system and it works perfectly well. Buy a pc version and a pc. Put the two together and there'll be be no more overpriced pretty gear, no more waiting, surmising, suggesting, hoping, wanting, angst-ing......."

Wheres the fun in that?


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Craig Seeman
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 7:19:47 pm

To me, the biggest Mac advantage is a world with Thunderbolt which, once integrated in the Mac Pro replacement, makes for affordability portability. Being able to attach professional peripheral from MacBookAir to BTO iMac and to MP Replacement will be a major cost savings in many circumstances.

That one can move a single RAID, Video I/O, PCIe to Thunderbolt chassis to any system can be an important convenience.



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Craig Seeman
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 7:15:01 pm

To be more specific, key is Sandy or Ivy Bridge Quad i7, the latter (more recent) the better. I believe FCPX takes advantage of functions present in those two processors that may not be present in the older Xeon processors Apple is still using in the MacPros. Of course Xeon's brute force helps but you may find a 4 core Ivy i7 better than on older 4 core Xeon and maybe even an 8 core xeon (I'd love to see that test though).

GPU has become a significant factor and I suspect the MacPro ATI/AMD 5770 and even 5870 is eclipsed even by the newer GPUs such as the 2GB version in BTO iMac and the upcoming 27" iMac may push things further. The current (2011/2012) 15" MBP/rMBP are certainly good.



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Bob Woodhead
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 5:05:16 pm

Why would you want to run Motion w/ PPro, instead of After Effects? AE is the more capable app, and integrates into PPro.

"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
CMX-Quantel-Avid-FCP-Premiere-3D-AFX-Crayola
"What a long strange trip it's been...."


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Bernard Newnham
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 8:44:06 pm

".....is a world with Thunderbolt...."

There seem to be a few motherboards that can provide you with that -
http://tinyurl.com/btdnnbf . Add some other bits - the latest GForce, a decent monitor or two, a few Gb of RAM, an SSD, and you'll see off anything.

B

Bernie


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Craig Seeman
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 10:41:07 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "There seem to be a few motherboards that can provide you with that - "

Yes, but it's not yet close to ubiquitous especially on built systems. Lenovo already has a laptop with Thunderbolt built in but it's nearly impossible to discern on their website.

I know several developers tested their Thunderbolt devices on Windows, usually using Bootcamped Macs. Generally if one is considering Windows, I'd consider Thunderbolt important. Given the infrequency of its use on the Windows platform it's not going to help moving from Windows computer to Windows computer unless you focus on getting such computers. It's also not going to help if you walk into another Windows based facility typically. Where it will help is the ability to move between Mac and Windows if you make sure you build/buy Thunderbolt systems.

On the Mac side, there's no worries though because all Macs from bottom to top have (will have in the case of MacPro replacement) Thunderbolt from 2011 forward.



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Tom Sefton
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 10:19:59 pm

I've used Premiere Pro for years. From version 1.5 right the way through every version until CS6. I also used to run FCP7.

I just purchased a new Macbook Retina 15" and I'm running CS6 suite on it - it's VERY impressive. I've installed FCPX on there because it is only £200 and it allows me to export ProRes files for post work. I can see it is very slick, but being used to CS6 already I can't find a reason to use FCPX instead.....


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Bernard Newnham
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 23, 2012 at 11:13:27 pm

"Yes, but it's not yet close to ubiquitous especially on built systems."

I suppose that's because they go where the money is. In wandering around the geeky world, I find it's only amongst Mac-y people that it gets much of a mention. As I now don't use my Mac much any more since FCP7 sailed into the sunset, I've not quite worked out why Thunderbolt is so important - and maybe the mainstream motherboard manufacturers haven't either.

Bernie


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Craig Seeman
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 24, 2012 at 12:18:24 am

[Bernard Newnham] "I've not quite worked out why Thunderbolt is so important "

Because I can use the same HD-SDI input device on laptop or desktop. Same goes for any other peripheral. Can use small RAID in the field with laptop and just plug and play into desktop (iMac only, MacPro coming) back at home base.



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Michael Gissing
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 24, 2012 at 12:48:14 am

I can see the use of thunderbolt in edit environments with laptops and limited PCIe slots. The last three jobs I have done from Win based AVIDs have all been delivered on USB3 drives. Even a few FCP7 jobs have been delivered on drives that are USB3 only which I found weird.

I haven't seen a thunderbolt drive delivered yet for a job. With eSata common on many WIN motherboards plus USB3, I can see why thunderbolt is not yet common with WIN mobos. It is certainly more important in the Mac world, given the loss of a PCI slot for esata and USB3 uncommon.


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Craig Seeman
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 24, 2012 at 1:21:12 am

[Michael Gissing] "I haven't seen a thunderbolt drive delivered yet for a job"

I assuming you're talking about file delivery on drive. Single drive systems is the least advantageous. Transfer speed isn't going to be much different than USB3. All Macs this year going forward do have both Thunderbolt and USB3. The biggest advantage in single drive systems is, IMHO, Thunderbolt passthrough to some other needed device.

Examples advantages are a small two drive raid going from field laptop, simply plugged into desktop for editing. Inexpensive HD-SDI/HDMI input including the $140 Blackmagic Recorder can be moved to any system for simple input and can be on the back end of the pass through of that RAID on a laptop. Also the ability to use a PCIe Thunderbolt chassis so one can move Decklink Duo or even Quad or maybe two Intensity Pros from laptop to desktop.

Granted the above scenarios aren't common especially for the typical consumer so it'll be a very long time for Thunderbolt to become anything close to ubiquitous on Windows. On the other hand, every Mac can be pressed into some professional service in a pinch.



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Michael Gissing
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 24, 2012 at 1:58:36 am

Yes I agree Craig. I didn't expect Tbolt on delivery drives although some small clients do bring their one and only edit drive (shudder). When I ask though, these same clients do not use Tbolt. They also are staying on older hardware and FCP7 so in my area there has been almost no movement in the past twenty months.

As I have said before my path is a transition to CS6/ da Vinci on WIN from now on with legacy FCP/ Color work for a good while yet. An internal five drive RAID is all I need and USB3 is fine for source files in most broadcast codecs, although slow with r3d files.


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Craig Seeman
Re: upgrading to final cut X Yes or no
on Nov 24, 2012 at 3:42:19 am

If you're on a single system work station than TBolt doesn't offer a great advantage. TBolt's advantage is in moving things around.

Now if you had to move the stuff on your internal RAID to a USB3 drive to do work on a laptop... With a TBolt based drive system, there'd be no copying since it's on the portable RAID. And if you really need RAID0 speed even when working on the laptop, there'd be no worry there either. As I noted before your Video I/O can move with you as well.

These days, as more people take their work with them, I think they'll gravitate towards Macs for each of use interchangeability.

If you're only tied to your workstation and large media only coming in, you may not see the advantages to TBolt.



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