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Apologists have missed a key point

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Ron Pestes
Apologists have missed a key point
on Jun 23, 2011 at 5:16:44 am

Some of you have been saying "just wait a couple years for this to mature as a product". Well, stop and think for a second where Adobe and Avid will be in two years. Way ahead of where they are now which is a lot farther along than Apple. That still puts FCP behind. No need to wait, leave the sinking ship before it sucks you under.

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Chris Kenny
Re: Apologists have missed a key point
on Jun 23, 2011 at 2:43:37 pm

[Ron Pestes] "Some of you have been saying "just wait a couple years for this to mature as a product". Well, stop and think for a second where Adobe and Avid will be in two years. Way ahead of where they are now which is a lot farther along than Apple. That still puts FCP behind."

What would you have had them do? Anyone with an understanding of the technical issues has spent the last three or four years yelling that Apple needed to rewrite FCP on top of more modern foundations. They did. Now a bunch of people seem to be complaining because they didn't understand what the implications of such a rewrite would be.

Final Cut Pro now has the most modern architecture and user interface of any of the three major NLEs. They had to make some sacrifices to get there, but my guess is it will pay off in the long run.

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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: Apologists have missed a key point
on Jun 23, 2011 at 3:33:38 pm

What we wanted them to do was rebuild it and keep innovating.

Adobe did it.


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Chris Borjis
Re: Apologists have missed a key point
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:53:24 pm

Until Lion comes out and possibly enables fcp x to run/function the way it was meant to be...apple gets a pardon from me.

Before the fcp as we know it could work with I/O cards I had zero use for it....that changed.


Chris Kenny, It's refreshing to see your positive outlook on things here. I find myself eager to read your postings when they pop up.



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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: Apologists have missed a key point
on Jun 23, 2011 at 5:22:38 pm

A positive outlook is nice, and I'm glad someone has it. However, I find that hard personally in this situation.

We told them "You need to rewrite this from square one" They did. That's no excuse to give us a program that, basically, doesn't function in the industry it created.

As I attempted to say earlier in 10 words as I was running out the door, Adobe pulled it off, totally rewriting Premiere Pro for 64bit, while keeping all the features we needed and they did it in less time, AND they also rewrote AFX, Encoder, and Photoshop to boot. Compressor is still 32 bit....

Apple could have done it. The fact that they chose not to is what makes me sad.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Apologists have missed a key point
on Jun 23, 2011 at 7:26:30 pm

[John-Michael Seng-Wheeler] "We told them "You need to rewrite this from square one" They did. That's no excuse to give us a program that, basically, doesn't function in the industry it created."

I could say it's not finished yet but ultimately any good developer is never finished. They released what they have so far while they continue to work on it. If they waited another 6 to 9 months people would be complaining that they're taking too long or it's not high enough priority.

It actually does function for many purposes. Just not many some currently need. On the other hand for some uses it functions leagues better than FCP7. It was usable enough to get it out the door. A few people are already loving the work while render in the background feature for example. If you work in AVCHD then this is a major gain right now.



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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: Apologists have missed a key point
on Jun 23, 2011 at 7:52:10 pm

[Craig Seeman] "A few people are already loving the work while render in the background feature for example. If you work in AVCHD then this is a major gain right now."

Bahhh, that's old. It shouldn't need to render it at all. From what I've herd, all the stuff it's doing in the background is stuff that it wouldn't need to do at all if they'd actually made it a native editor.

I don't doubt that they're going to add features in the future, but I don't think it'll ever be the pro tool it was. The underlying code just isn't there. For example, the media management system that they built for FCPX is based on the i apps, and is currently totally un usable in a multiseat edit house. For someone editing on their own, at home, it's great. For me? It might work, but I don't like the idea of having all my footage from every project visible all the time. That's just way more stuff then I want visible at any moment.


But even if they do add back all those features, XML, EDL, Support for a network storage workflow ect, by then, the industry will have left them in the dust.

Some big people have jumped ship very quickly.... If apple doen't work very fast, and make this work for the big boys, FCPX will quickly fade into the background, and Adobe and Avid will be left as the two big players. If they work and work and finally catch up, then maybe people will switch back, but editors don't like change....

I think this is a very big win for Adobe.
Even better, Merged Clips was added to the most recent release, making Premere Pro finally able to handle sync sound, which was one of the last major problems with using PP for film work.


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John Berpskin
Re: Apologists have missed a key point
on Jun 23, 2011 at 6:10:25 pm

Avid hasn't innovated JACK in over 5 years. Hell, MC5 had a huge uproar over being rushed to market/bugs. Be warned if you plan on signing on with Avid - same old same old you ran from before.


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Dennis Kutchera
Re: Apologists have missed a key point
on Jun 26, 2011 at 12:24:38 pm

John Berpskin wrote: Avid hasn't innovated JACK in over 5 years. Hell, MC5 had a huge uproar over being rushed to market/bugs. Be warned if you plan on signing on with Avid - same old same old you ran from before.


Huh? No innovation in 5 years? Let's look just a bit of the "jack" that Media Composer hasn't innovated:

1. AMA - Avid Media Access: If quicktime plays it, so does Avid. No need to import, it will link to the original file in it's original location.
-I work almost 100% AMA with Final Cut Pro media assets from a lot of different sources. Far easier than working with the same assets in Final Cut Pro because when I open a project 3 months later, MC doesn't lose its brains about where the media is located.

2. Mixed frame rate sequences that actually work. I typically work with a 720P 59.94 sequence and uses sources that are mostly PAL DV, 1080i50 and NTSC mixed. And the results are smooth motion and no interlacing artifacts, The upconversion of SD to HD looks great. And this is all in real time. If I need to provide the production in a different frame rate, say 720P 50, I create a new project, open the previous sequence and paste it into the new one and BAM! Now it plays smoothly in real time at that frame rate, pending any plugins that may need re-rendering due to the frame rate change.
-Final Cut Pro 7 claims I can use any frame size and frame rate in a sequence and I guess that's true if you can put up with the judder and shudder of NTSC on a PAL sequence, etc.

3. Third party hardware support. Right now it is only Matrox MXO2 Mini and AJA i/o Express. I am running Avid MC, Adobe Premiere and AE, and Final Cut Pro 3 on this with no issues or conflicts. The best performance is in this order - Avid, Adobe, Apple.
-I suspect there is now a rush on at Avid to support other hardware to capture the mindshare of some of the Final Cut Pro shops that feel abandoned by Apple. This would be a smart move for Avid.

4. Avid added features to the timeline that can be turned on and off to make it more comfortable to Final Cut Pro users.

5. Script Sync - never look in a bin again, just follow your script to locate shots. Brilliant jack, wouldn't you say? Maybe you want to tell me it is an option. That's true, but it IS an option no one else can offer.

These are just the new features that brought me back to Avid when they released MC5. There are more innovations, but I am not going to list them all. My point has been made.

When was the last time you actually did business with Avid? Same old is long gone.

I trust this corrects any misconceptions about Avid development of the last 5 years.

Dennis


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