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Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out

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David Lawrence
Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 29, 2012 at 9:40:23 pm

This is huge. Just reported right now, Scott Forstall and John Browett are out. Jony Ive to take responsibility for Human Interface across the company:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/29/apple-executive-shakeup-scott-forstall-a...

Wow.

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Rick Lang
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 29, 2012 at 11:50:02 pm

At one time Scott Forstall appeared to be groomed to inherit Tim Cook's CEO role on Tim's retirement! Explains why he didn't make an appearance on stage at the latest dog-and-pony show last week.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Marcus Moore
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 12:30:07 am

Practically, I'm not sure how much of an effect this will have on FCPX; Randy Ubillos' position of head of video and photography seems pretty secure, and despite the rough-start, FCPX is making strides.

The impression was that there was friction between Ive and Forestall. Ive WAS NOT a fan of skewomorphic design while Forestall (and supposedly Jobs) was. So we're likely to see a lot less leather and simulated torn pages in iOS and OSX UI in the future. And that's fine by me.



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Steve Connor
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 1:40:58 am

This could be very good news, I'm looking forward to what Mr Ive does with Apple's interfaces

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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David Lawrence
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 1:48:00 am

[Steve Connor] "This could be very good news, I'm looking forward to what Mr Ive does with Apple's interfaces"

Agreed. I think this is a ballsy move by Cook and huge win for Apple. I'm very optimistic.

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Chris Harlan
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 2:05:21 am

[David Lawrence] "[Steve Connor] "This could be very good news, I'm looking forward to what Mr Ive does with Apple's interfaces"

Agreed. I think this is a ballsy move by Cook and huge win for Apple. I'm very optimistic.

_"



So funny. This is Kremlin watching in the 21st Century.


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Marcus Moore
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 2:39:48 am

I don't think it's quite that opaque- we know what these guys do in the company.

People will link Forestall's departure to iOS' Siri and Maps launches (and they might be right). Mark Papermaster was let go after the seeming failure of "antenna gate".

Ego? Personality conflict? Wanted to move on?

In the end we'll never really know, of course.



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Jim Giberti
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 2:44:07 am

[Marcus Moore] "I don't think it's quite that opaque- we know what these guys do in the company.
"


Could someone explain it in layman's terms?


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Marcus Moore
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 3:07:51 am

Forestall oversees iOS development on all fronts. Not the hardware, mind you. Just software.

John Browett was head of retail, but he'd only been with the company for 8 months, and he's no big loss as it didn't seem it was working out. He replaced Ron Johnson who basically grew Apple stores since they started in the early '00s.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 3:40:55 am

[Marcus Moore] "Forestall oversees iOS development on all fronts. Not the hardware, mind you. Just software.

John Browett was head of retail, but he'd only been with the company for 8 months, and he's no big loss as it didn't seem it was working out. He replaced Ron Johnson who basically grew Apple stores since they started in the early '00s.
"


I think you've got this wrong. John Browett is a Trade Attaché and Forestall is the Deputy Secretary of the Politburo. I'm pretty sure that's right.


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David Lawrence
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 5:56:01 am

More reporting and links here:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/29/scott-forstall-reportedly-forced-out-of...

and

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/29/apples-mobile-software-and-retail-...

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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 12:39:03 pm

There was no Secretary position in Politburo. Just Members and Candidates (non-voting members).


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Chris Harlan
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 7:49:07 pm

[Michael Aranyshev] "There was no Secretary position in Politburo. Just Members and Candidates (non-voting members)."

My apologies. I was just futzing around. What would the appropriate title actually be? Secretary of the Central Committee? General Secretary of the Communist party? I'm pretty fuzzy on Soviet politics. And my just-accomplished trip to Wikipedia has left me fuzzier.


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 8:14:00 pm

The big one was the General Secretary of the Central Committee of The Communist Party of the Soviet Union. The position originally was that of the literal secretary: handling all Central Committee paperwork. Stalin realised that control over papers equals control over the growing party bureaucracy and quietly snatched this seat while others were fighting for Ministerial (People's Commissar) Portfolios.

Formally Soviet Union had all the signs of modern state: Supreme Council of the Soviet Union (Parliament), Council of Ministers and Supreme Court. Didn't help a bit.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 3:43:54 am

Can anybody explain me what's the relation between "skewomorphic design" and making movies?
New generation video editors don't want to know what YUV means because they say that hump their "creative freedom", but instead of video basic knowledge they are learning tons of computer related shit.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 6:27:25 am

[Rafael Amador] "Can anybody explain me what's the relation between "skewomorphic design" and making movies?"

Other than an icon that looks like a razor blade to signify a tool that makes cuts, a mixer that has all the visual flair of an actual plastic and wood mixer, or audio plugins that look like tubes or rack-mounted units, not much. VCR-like buttons, perhaps, for play/FF/RWD/REC. And that little red light, when you are recording, of course.

FWIW, its Skeuomorphic design, though it does sound like "skew."


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David Lawrence
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 6:42:24 am

[Chris Harlan] "Other than an icon that looks like a razor blade to signify a tool that makes cuts, a mixer that has all the visual flair of an actual plastic and wood mixer, or audio plugins that look like tubes or rack-mounted units, not much. VCR-like buttons, perhaps, for play/FF/RWD/REC. And that little red light, when you are recording, of course. "

I disagree. The same design attitude that wallows in the comfortable literalism of ugly skeuomorphic control surfaces is the same design attitude that ignores the science of color theory in a color-correction UI for the sake of comfortable simplicity. In so far as these are the tools we use for movie making, these design decisions affect us as movie makers. I will not miss Forstall's influence on Apple UI design.

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Chris Harlan
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 7:22:46 am

Whoa. Disagree? I think you are reading more into my statement than I meant to have there. Sorry, if I was unclear. I simply meant give examples of where it exists in editing software, and to say that it doesn't really add much value at all.

Personally, I tend to find skeuomorphism childish, especially when it is overdone. I don't mind a little of it, though. I like a mixer that resembles and uses the conventions of a real world mixer. I like that busses look a little bit like busses, and that fader strips look a bit like fader strips. I don't hate when it looks like a Yamaha or Mackie from twenty or thirty years ago, but at a certain point too much realism makes it look like a toy. It can also look like a toy when its too on the nose. The FCP Razor Blade has always looked toy-like to me, for instance.

I tend to hate audio plugins that look and function like racked equipment, especially when there are GUI metaphors that could offer much better control. I'm also not a fan of fake brushed metal buttons--say the Launch Pad icon, for instance.

But what I really hate--see I can get worked up about this if I want to--are goofy animations that parody unnecessary analog actions, which is sort of a meta-skeuomorphism. At first, page turns are kind of fun on an iPad--but, really? We need that? [ and, I don't know. Maybe we do.] FCP X's cutesy animations drove be buggy when I first encountered them.

So to sum up; I find some skeuomorphism useful, but more often than not, in poor taste. Conversely, I don't think everything should like a Braun kitchen appliance, either.


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Michael Phillips
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 12:30:10 pm

I agree with Chris that the first time, these things are cute - but having to do it every time gets old fast. I equate it to DVD menu authoring - some are so elaborate it takes many seconds to almost a 1/2 minute to get to the next step. The first time it's part of the experience - but thereafter when I just want to watch the $!$#@! movie, just play the $!$#@! movie!

But I think interfaces can benefit for what is best at the moment of action - and it is not always a perfect recreation of its analog counterpart.

Michael


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David Lawrence
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 2:40:31 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Whoa. Disagree? I think you are reading more into my statement than I meant to have there. Sorry, if I was unclear. I simply meant give examples of where it exists in editing software, and to say that it doesn't really add much value at all. "

Oops! My bad. I completely misread your statement. Sounds like we're on the same page ;)

[Chris Harlan] " tend to hate audio plugins that look and function like racked equipment, especially when there are GUI metaphors that could offer much better control. I'm also not a fan of fake brushed metal buttons--say the Launch Pad icon, for instance."

Ever play with Propellerhead's Reason? http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/

Flip the rack and use animated virtual patch cables! It's the ultimate in meta-racked-audio-skeuomorphism!

At least you can make cool sounds with it...

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Alex Hawkins
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Nov 1, 2012 at 2:11:00 am

Isn't skeuomorphic design one of the major reasons for Apple's great success? The fact that certain things just look familiar to consumers breaks down alot of technology cross over barriers don't you think?

I can understand that as professional video makers we might think it's all a bit naff but for the general public it's somewhat comforting. Even having iPad's simulate page turning. Doesn't that all add to the user experience?

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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Brooks Tomlinson
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 1:12:18 pm

This has a HUGE impact, because of the actual conversation that lead up to Scott's dismissal!

Tim Cook, "Scott, I'm really excited about what we are about to bring to the Pro community!"

Scott, "forget the pro community, they are the past! we need to move onto the future! Implanting babies with microchips!"

Tim, "Umm, Scott I think it's time you leave. How dare you even suggest such a horrible thing! To forget our pro users, forshame"

Scott, "Fine, I didn't like working here anyway, it smells like diaper rash!"


Well, one can only hope that was the conversion.

Brooks Tomlinson
"I dream in 32bit float"


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David Mathis
Re: Big Shakeup At Apple - Scott Forstall Is Out
on Oct 30, 2012 at 9:12:04 pm

LOL

That has the to be the funniest post so far.


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