FORUMS: list search recent posts

Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Paul Jay
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 9:25:56 am

How long will this debate go on?

I think it's time to change the title on this forum to Apple Final Cut Pro X

Merge this one and the 'FCPX Techniques' into ONE forum. Final Cut Pro X. Because that's what it is.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 11:49:20 am

[Paul Jay] "How long will this debate go on?"

Till the end of time, or till the Jets win the super bowl, which ever comes first; and I'm not betting on the boys in green.

[Paul Jay] "Merge this one and the 'FCPX Techniques' into ONE forum. "

I don't think it wise to subject the nice folk on the techniques forum to the periodic rantings of Aindreas, it might prove traumatic.

And finally, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, which applies not only to the name of this forum but to the very subject of this forum's dialogue.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 12:49:20 pm

Periodically there are calls to rename this debate forum. Every time the cry is to leave it alone. There is already an FCPX technique forum so go there if you are a FCPX user who doesn't want to debate comparative NLEs.

Where else can the relative merits of different systems be openly debated with such passion, bias and poor analogy?


Return to posts index


Herb Sevush
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 2:06:47 pm

[Michael Gissing] "Where else can the relative merits of different systems be openly debated with such passion, bias and poor analogy?"

You left out the bad spelling.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 4:56:45 pm

[Herb Sevush] "You left out the bad spelling."

I resemble that commetn


Return to posts index

Ben Scott
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 7:01:15 pm

"I don't think it wise to subject the nice folk on the techniques forum to the periodic rantings of Aindreas, it might prove traumatic."

you never know you have him guest star on every forum, ranting as he does best


Return to posts index


Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 7:41:50 pm

sweet jesus no. i'm barely able to raise a rage post here at this point. I think I'm entering FCPX rant menopause.

plus that's a pretty full on update from apple. They're delivered rather a ton of stuff there - I've got to go from 10.8 to 8.2 to go from .5 to .6 my mac tells me, and I duly will.

If only to stare at the (sort of) source monitor.

Also - PIOP!
my **Good God** the threads that ran on that. there has to be 20,000 words just on that on this forum.

And Apple did sit down and figure that whole thing out.

Didn't Hodgetts say PIOP would break the second law of thermodynamics or something?

tee hee.

Still - any forum that brawls on the semantics and meaning of persistence and user action in cut points like a university debating society on crack has to have some merit.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

craig slattery
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 8:29:03 pm

I just want to plug my program, tonight on BBC Two, Sam Mendes A License to Thrill. 1/2 hour special on the director of the new Bond Film SkyFall. 10pm. After a great first trial on FCPX for the Culture Show I decided to cut this special in fcp7. Mainly because I was quite ill at the beginning of the edit and I feared I would have to hand the edit over to another editor. Unfortunately we have no other editors on our team that can cut in FCPX. Thankfully I finished the cut this morning (very early). And next week I'm back in FCPX for the magazine program. How cool will my suites look with the new iMacs and hopefully ( an equally thin 2nd screen in the future) running FCPX . Loving this new mac world.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 8:34:30 pm

[craig slattery] " Loving this new mac world."

Shh. If your computer doesn't double as space heater, you might not be a professional.


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 8:34:59 pm

[craig slattery] "I decided to cut this special in fcp7. Mainly because I was quite ill at the beginning of the edit and I feared I would have to hand the edit over to another editor. "

You probably just made a wannabe FCPX freelancer cry.

[craig slattery] "we have no other editors on our team that can cut in FCPX"

Well gosh dern it, show 'em your priclessnes! ...And inspire someone else to dive in.



Return to posts index

Rick Lang
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 25, 2012 at 1:29:14 pm

[Craig Seeman] "[craig slattery] "I decided to cut this special in fcp7. Mainly because I was quite ill at the beginning of the edit and I feared I would have to hand the edit over to another editor. "

You probably just made a wannabe FCPX freelancer cry."


Craig, he said he was very sick; when that happens, you feel like you're gonna die, so on his deathbed, in his weakened state, he fell back to where he felt safe. Just illustrates how bad it was for him then, not a rational move but you have to forgive him this one lapse in judgment because he really wasn't himself.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


Return to posts index

craig slattery
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 25, 2012 at 8:08:47 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Well gosh dern it, show 'em your priclessnes! ...And inspire someone else to dive in."

The editors on our show have been encouraged to start learning FCPX.


Return to posts index


craig slattery
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 8:44:33 pm

For folks not in the UK you can follow comments on the show on twitter @bbcCultureShow


Return to posts index

Robbert-Jan van der Does
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 9:37:45 pm

I've just watched it here in the Netherlands.
Great interview, beautifully shot, lit and edited.
Compliments to all involved.

Regards,
Robbert-Jan van der Does

Kind regards,

Robbert-Jan van der Does
lighting cameraman/steadicam operator/editor

WISIWYG (What I See Is What You Get)


Return to posts index

craig slattery
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 10:17:01 pm

[Robbert-Jan van der Does] "I've just watched it here in the Netherlands.
Great interview, beautifully shot, lit and edited.
Compliments to all involved."


Many thanks, Robbert-Jan,


Return to posts index


Gary Huff
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 1:21:18 pm

[Paul Jay] "How long will this debate go on?"

I'm sorry if someone is forcing you to visit this forum. Perhaps you'd be better off just ignoring this one and spending all your time in FCPX Techniques instead?


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 4:34:17 pm

[Paul Jay] "How long will this debate go on?"

There will be schools of philosophy built on the forum.
Some of us are proponents of Xism for example. There will be splinters into differentiating thoughts such as the X paradigmers and X pragmatists. We will have such schools named after the proponents and wikipedia pages about us.

Later will come the Neo Xers.



Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 24, 2012 at 8:24:04 pm

"Xism" does that mean I'm an Xist?

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 25, 2012 at 12:51:43 am

Damn "hipster X-ers" - GET OFF MY EDITING LAWN!

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Jason Porthouse
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 25, 2012 at 8:39:35 am

Another vote for leave as is. This is one of the most vibrant debating forums on the Cow, and where else am I going to find posts from Aindreas that make me laugh so hard coffee comes out of my nose?

BTW Craig, great job on the Skyfall programme. Thouroughly enjoyed it - and good to hear that FCPX is making inroads in to broadcast in the UK. I'd love to cut some broadcast stuff on it, but the Beeb down here are a bit wedded to Avid for that...

Jason

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.

*the artist formally known as Jaymags*


Return to posts index

craig slattery
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 25, 2012 at 8:05:34 pm

[Jason Porthouse] " I'd love to cut some broadcast stuff on it, but the Beeb down here are a bit wedded to Avid for that... "

Jason, I'm only freelance at the beeb, but I made a lot of positive noise about FCPX and simply said I want to start cutting in it. You can do the same, they should, and to be fair, do listen to their valued craft editors. Good luck with it


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 25, 2012 at 10:49:03 pm

rather. Personally speaking, I genuinely found your workflow post made a crazy strong case for FCPX in time critical long form factual. It turned my head - it was very easy to visualise the specific heft FCPX brings in altering the process of footage analysis and whittling - I almost rather wished I operated in an applicable scenario to get the feel for that. its just that I'm in a different lowly short form gig, and I think Apple have built a thing to do a thing, and its not my thing.

As an easy, straight forward example: mood films and short form stuff demands pretty vast quantities of minute push pull stuff, and repeated going at the keyframes to hone the fake camera work - Avid, god love it, actually has no geometrics as a native attribute, but -

FCPX, with the four story tower of a keyframing interface popping up over each and every clip is a jaw dropping non-starter.

every time I pop it up, I have a shocked moment where I realise the motion tab as was is now staggering around the timeline. and I'm supposed to deal with keyframe parameters, scrolling up and down the timeline to reveal the interface, on every single clip instance. Its... an insane adventure that.

Keyframing is not a place anymore, its a crazy pop out hobo, as a per clip, gigantic, unwieldy instance. in the bloody timeline of all places.

Its almost the worst thing in the application and it is, in truth, an absolute non starter.

Apple made a range of decisions here - but I think in a number of areas, they unwittingly cut through meat and bone to get to where they thought they should be in a unified interface.

fundamentally, the unified single brick interface without tabs, and with the actual elements being simply too large (i mean everything - the buttons, the light switches, all of it) represents a serious roadblock.

now that this thing is 5K (!) red native, with audio sync magic, power windows, throw any format, with multiple, count them, persistent in out points on every clip, with a source viewer, with immense CC performance on a well stocked iMac - it is getting incredibly hard to describe FCPX as prosumer software.

But it is very, very weird software. The crux lies in obtuse user conventions, and what apple feel a pro application should be in visual operation.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

craig slattery
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 9:23:08 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] " its just that I'm in a different lowly short form gig, and I think Apple have built a thing to do a thing, and its not my thing."

Not sure I agree with you there, Ive cut some Tvc's using X and I found that process a lot easier in X than the long form factual. Ive seen your films on your website, they are great, but I would think of all the edit systems X would be perfect for cutting that sort of material. US election 08 comes to mind. I think for fine cutting, experimentation, creativity and finesse, it cant be beaten.
But hey, each to their own.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 3:45:40 pm

As jeremy would say with piops - I know I'm crazy on this, and arguing solo - but I have a real problem with the timeline, and I'm not talking concepts here - the action of physically lifting a clip and seeing that massive heavy drop shadow appear drives me more than a little mad. you can feel it impacting timeline responsiveness every time. there is a minute pull as the heavy effect goes on.

Also I don't think it has a good mid zoom arrangement because of how vertical the lozenges are. clip items in FCPX tend to be very tall and skinny unless you're close in? I find it extremely hard to read the edit, when I'm further than a few minutes zoomed out with a tight cut

these are, I realise, nitpicky to some - but I'm a pretty stupid editor, and I'm quite mouse driven to boot - in theory that should make me a bit of an FCPX candidate, but I cannot key into that timeline, it just annoys the hell out of me. Not that anyone would have ever realised that.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 10:59:00 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "As jeremy would say with piops - I know I'm crazy on this, and arguing solo - but I have a real problem with the timeline, and I'm not talking concepts here - the action of physically lifting a clip and seeing that massive heavy drop shadow appear drives me more than a little mad. you can feel it impacting timeline responsiveness every time. there is a minute pull as the heavy effect goes on."

10.0.6 seems to have gotten rid of a lot of the milky animations.

Really, I'm not kidding about this.

I'll prove it here in another post soon.

Drop shadow is still there.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

craig slattery
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 11:07:58 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " but I have a real problem with the timeline, and I'm not talking concepts here - the action of physically lifting a clip and seeing that massive heavy drop shadow appear drives me more than a little mad."

I can see your point Aindreas. Ive never got on with PC's because the curser/arrow is not pleasing to the eye. It's all big and bold and not aesthetically pleasing. When ever I touch a PC. (never really) I feel like a small kid in an oversized suit wielding a massive pencil the size of a tree stump.


[Aindreas Gallagher] "these are, I realise, nitpicky to some"

Not nitpicky at all, you see I agree and I have a theory. There are two groups of people in the world, those of us who drink Coca Cola and the others that weirdly prefer Pepsi.


Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 27, 2012 at 8:29:04 am

[craig slattery] "I can see your point Aindreas. Ive never got on with PC's because the curser/arrow is not pleasing to the eye. It's all big and bold and not aesthetically pleasing. When ever I touch a PC. (never really) I feel like a small kid in an oversized suit wielding a massive pencil the size of a tree stump"

Changing a PCs cursor is easy. So if you want something more elegant, then just change it. Hardly fair to hate something you have control over.


Return to posts index

Sandeep Sajeev
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 5:23:02 pm

Yes the Animation Menu on the clips sucks. But you don't have to use it, all the properties a keyframable in the Inspector, just like in FCP 7.

And I think you do X a disservice when you say it's not suited for short form. If you can wrap your head around the way it works, then you can cut pretty much anything on it. In fact for TVC's I find it lightning fast to assemble various versions to show the agency reps when they come in for their first session. Smart Collections, Auditions, No need to Patch stuff to make edits, they're all things that make the sessions go quicker.

Trimming is also not as bad as the godawful magnetism animation makes it out to be. There are times even now where it'll spook me out to the extent that I go and make sure my edit starts at the TC it's supposed to.

Zooming in and out of the timeline could be better. Smoke's click and drag is phenomenal, the CMD+/- is a pain, especially if you've got your skimmer parked at one place, your play head at another and there's a clip selected in the Timeline.

I agree with you that icon design is tacky and they're generally too large.

As for clip heights, I find I can generally get something I'm happy with it from the default options. The option to display Roles in 10.0.6 seems like a good addition as well.

And I keep saying this to anyone who asks, X is easy on the fingers. I end up clicking a LOT less than I did in 7.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 8:01:41 pm

[Sandeep Sajeev] "I agree with you that icon design is tacky and they're generally too large. "

Unwanted on a big desktop system. But potentially a lifesaver as display surfaces get both smaller and higher rez.

Remember, Apple is designing for all users - and a wide range of devices. If you ever CAN open your desktop edit on an iPad for a field tweek, those "now it seems too big" interface elements might be your best friend.

Life is context.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Sandeep Sajeev
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 10:57:22 pm

Perhaps you're right Bill. But if web pages can scale automatically across iPads, iPhones and laptops, then X probably should as well.

Regardless, the UI design is not great. I really like Scratch's interface, it's stark grey with blue accents - for a Smoke/Flame rip off it's left Autodesk struggling to catch up (look wise, not in terms of tools).

X's dark gray with those clip arty icons is miles behind.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 11:10:30 pm

[Sandeep Sajeev] "Smoke's click and drag is phenomenal, the CMD+/- is a pain, especially if you've got your skimmer parked at one place, your play head at another and there's a clip selected in the Timeline."

Hit Z.

Click and drag a box.

Laugh, celebrate, shoot fireworks at your best friend's head.

Maybe this isn't what you are talking about?


Return to posts index

Sandeep Sajeev
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 11:20:50 pm

Not really Jeremy. In Smoke you click and drag up to Zoom In and click and drag down to Zoom Out. It's very gestural, fast and very precise.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 26, 2012 at 11:35:54 pm

[Sandeep Sajeev] "Not really Jeremy. In Smoke you click and drag up to Zoom In and click and drag down to Zoom Out. It's very gestural, fast and very precise."

The Wacom support in Smoke is truly fantastic, it's true.

I also like the little track targeter on the CTI.

You can now shoot fireworks at my head.

BetterTouchTool and a trackpad would be a good start.







Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 27, 2012 at 1:40:26 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Laugh, celebrate, shoot fireworks at your best friend's head."

Hey there, Jeremy. Just wanted to RSVP for your Fourth of July barbecue. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to make it this year...

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
on Oct 27, 2012 at 1:53:22 am

[Walter Soyka] "Hey there, Jeremy. Just wanted to RSVP for your Fourth of July barbecue. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to make it this year..."

Heh heh.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]