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Here's what I want:

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Dominic Deacon
Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 1:37:37 am

Allow me to whine for a moment. I've been playing with the options ever since FCP got canned. Now I may be just a glass is half empty man but I find it odd that most of these applications are majorly hamstrung by something. NLEs have been around a while now and I would have thought that they'd be more perfect by now. Here's what I'm after:

I want multiple source windows. I toyed with Lightworks for a while. In the end I found the interface too awkward but I loved- loved- having multiple source windows. It makes cutting dialogue scenes so fast and easy. As far as I'm aware everything else only has one and FCX is without. Being a narrative editor that automatically rules FCX out for me as a serious choice.

I do though want the tagging and organisational tools of FCX.

I want a ripple mode that can be switched on and off. Combined with tracks lock this makes first assembly so quick and easy and then you can just toggle them off when you start fiddling with audio etc. I think only Vegas and Edius have this.

I want Edius performance. Real time, native editing with anything that basically never needs to render. For me the others aren't even close on this front. Edius stability too. Spent several thousand hours on it now and still never crashed despite me actually trying to make it do so.

I don't want Edius issues with large projects. I'm working on a feature and was not aware it can't handle big jobs happily. Seems only AVID and Lightworks are really up to this at the moment.

I want a decent titling tool in the program that's not a nightmare to use. I think that's all of the options out.

Why are audio capabilities farmed out to other programs (eg Audition in addition to Premiere)? Why can't they sit in the same program?

I want footage not to be overwritten when something covers it on a track. I only recently started working with DAWs and this has been the discovery for me. Cover one piece of audio with another and the original is still just happily sitting underneath. Beautiful. Why don't NLEs do this?

I want that little arrow select thing from FCP where it selects all the footage in the direction of the arrow from where you are on the timeline. The others generally a shortcut that does this but I miss have an actual tool because I'm not good at remembering obscure shortcuts.

And I need omf, aaf and edl export options.Almost all options are missing at least one of these. Frustrating!

Anyway that's my list for starters.


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Shane Ross
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 2:33:54 am

And I want a Lamborghini that gets 80 MPG, only costs $6000, and seats 5. But still looks awesome, and goes 0-90 in 4 seconds.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Dominic Deacon
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 3:47:06 am

Ah yes, that would be nice but yours is not possible. All the parts of mine are already available in seperate programs- or else not having them is the result of programming decisions I don't understand (eg footage overwriting other footage on the same track).

Anyway a man can dream can't he?


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Shane Ross
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 5:39:46 am

[Dominic Deacon] "Ah yes, that would be nice but yours is not possible. All the parts of mine are already available in seperate programs-"

Funny you should say that. Everything I want is available in other cars...why can't they be combined into one?

The Ford Focus deisel gets 80 MPG:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110406/GREEN/110409933

I'm sure the Lamborghini can go from 0-90 in 4 seconds. And my current 2001 Honda Accord seats 5. Fine, there isn't a new car that costs under $6000...I was exaggerating there.

[Dominic Deacon] "Anyway a man can dream can't he?"

Sure. I'll let you dream.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Andy Neil
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 4:27:55 am

[Dominic Deacon] "As far as I'm aware everything else only has one and FCX is without."

FCP7 has multiple source windows if you want to work that way. As a narrative editor myself, I don't really see the point, but hey, whatever floats your boat. FCPX does not have that, unless you count the multicam window, but it's unclear if it will remain that way. But it's incorrect to say it has no source window. It has a dynamic viewer which shows the source when scrubbing source material.

[Dominic Deacon] "I want a ripple mode that can be switched on and off. Combined with tracks lock this makes first assembly so quick and easy and then you can just toggle them off when you start fiddling with audio etc."

I don't know what you mean by this. FCPX's "ripple" mode as you call it can be turned off by using the position tool. But I'm not sure what you mean about FCP7 and Avid not having it at all.

[Dominic Deacon] "I want a decent titling tool in the program that's not a nightmare to use. I think that's all of the options out."

FCPX has the best NLE titler out there in my opinion, so I don't get why you think no NLE has anything to offer there. And if you spend the $50 for Motion 5, you get even more flexibility with it.

[Dominic Deacon] "Why are audio capabilities farmed out to other programs (eg Audition in addition to Premiere)? Why can't they sit in the same program?"

NLE's are complex programs. So are DAWs. They both have different workflows and needs. Trying to combine a DAW with an NLE and having it actually be able to work is a daunting task. Perhaps in the future it'll happen, but I hope not. That would make the software needlessly bloated and difficult to use.

[Dominic Deacon] "I want footage not to be overwritten when something covers it on a track. I only recently started working with DAWs and this has been the discovery for me. Cover one piece of audio with another and the original is still just happily sitting underneath. Beautiful. Why don't NLEs do this?"

This can be done in FCPX by dragging one shot over another and choosing, Add to Audition. As for why NLEs don't do this all the time, well, video can only be seen one track at a time. Audio (as in DAWs) can be layered to be heard simultaneously. The paradigm is different.

[Dominic Deacon] "I want that little arrow select thing from FCP where it selects all the footage in the direction of the arrow from where you are on the timeline."

Yeah, something like that'd be nice.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Bret Williams
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 6:28:43 am

[Andy Neil] "FCP7 has multiple source windows if you want to work that way. As a narrative editor myself, I don't really see the point, but hey, whatever floats your boat. FCPX does not have that, unless you count the multicam window, but it's unclear if it will remain that way. But it's incorrect to say it has no source window. It has a dynamic viewer which shows the source when scrubbing source material."

Avid as well. And I just assume Premiere too.


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alban egger
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 1:04:51 pm

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/15/apple-reveals-2012-final-cut-pro-x-upda...

Apple promised source viewers



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Bret Williams
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 14, 2012 at 2:10:16 pm

Yes. Or just go to the apple page http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/whats-new/

But that's not the same thing as multiple source windows. Since they already call the project window a viewer, and it serves dual purpose as event and project viewer, I'd assume dual (meaning two) means there will now be a source viewer. Not the same as multiple source viewers.


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Dominic Deacon
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 10:57:00 pm

FCP7 has multiple source windows if you want to work that way

How do you set that up? Four years I used that software and never came across the function.

But I'm not sure what you mean about FCP7 and Avid not having it at all.

You can ripple delete and ripple insert in FCP but as far as I'm aware you can't just set the timeline to ripple mode and forget about it. Can it be done?

FCPX has the best NLE titler out there in my opinion, so I don't get why you think no NLE has anything to offer there. And if you spend the $50 for Motion 5, you get even more flexibility with it.

I love Motion. It's definitely the thing I miss most about macs. I haven't used the FCX titler but constantly surprised by how poor they are in other programs.

well, video can only be seen one track at a time. Audio (as in DAWs) can be layered to be heard simultaneously. The paradigm is different.

The paradigm is different but I don't see any advantage in overwriting and destroying the original clip. Why not just let it sit under there to be retrieved if necessary? It gets rid of the issue of clip collisions quite nicely.


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Andy Neil
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 11:56:34 pm

[Dominic Deacon] "How do you set that (multiple source windows) up? Four years I used that software and never came across the function. "

Select a clip in the browser and select Open in New Viewer. Then you can have a clip in the main source viewer, and other clips in independent viewers to edit into the timeline. As long as you have the screen real estate for it, you can do it.

[Dominic Deacon] "You can ripple delete and ripple insert in FCP but as far as I'm aware you can't just set the timeline to ripple mode and forget about it. Can it be done?"

I don't understand what you mean by a ripple mode. All NLEs have the capacity to insert and ripple delete clips in the timeline. They also all have the simultaneous ability to overwrite and delete leaving a gap. Can you explain how one would use a "ripple mode"?

[Dominic Deacon] "The paradigm is different but I don't see any advantage in overwriting and destroying the original clip. Why not just let it sit under there to be retrieved if necessary? It gets rid of the issue of clip collisions quite nicely."

Well, there's a lot of things to take into consideration. For example, what do you do when two clips overlapping have different frame sizes and/or frame rates. Does the size of one bleed into the size of another? How do you determine which side overwrites the other? What about composites or blend modes applied to clips? What if you don't want the clip on V3 to overwrite the clip on the other side of the edit? What if you lay over 5-6 or 7 clips on the same piece of timeline? When you delete the top clip, does it show the one below? What if you want a gap there? Do you have to select and delete the same section 7 times to get rid of all the clips you put in that spot? In addition, if you have the computer keeping track of all those clips beneath all those other clips, that's going to be a very bloated database in any project over 20 minutes.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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alban egger
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 1:24:05 pm

Dominic, I agree Edius is extremely strong and has some good features. It played stuff back natively ( P2 etc) years before FCP and Premiere did. It also has a great bin-structure which is superior to FCP7.
I moved from Edius to FCP6 a few years ago and was shocked at how clumsy Finalcut was.

But since everyone used FinalCut around me and it had better effect-controls, I sucked it up.

Then came FCPX and it has all the features I loved about Edius and FAST (Liquid).
It works natively and play back in realtime no matter how many layers and effects I use. It has a great ripple mode (which can be turned off), it has a nice titler whose UI is on the screen and it has the best media/bin structure and management out there.
Heck even the "burn DVD from timeline" which was so cool in Edius is in FCPX with some add-ons (BluRay, E-mail, Vimeo etc).

There are a few things in FAST, Edius, CS6, Avid, Vegas that I would like also. But the NLEs have to compromise. They all will have strengths, and weaknesses and you will have to have a workaround ready on all of them for one or the other feature. You can build a table in many different ways with different tools......



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Nick Toth
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 2:31:50 pm

http://www.newbluefx.com/titler-pro/

I have been using this for most of my titling. I prefer it over the FCP X Titler or jumping out to Motion. There is a free demo available.


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Dave Brandt
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 8:42:49 pm

Vegas is a daw and nle which is fully capable on both counts. One of its ultimate strengths is combining the 2, for examlle using a daw approach to video tracks, ie video plugins like inserts in a daw and you also plug in effects on the master video out just like the audio.
It also lets you have one clip covering another on the same track without deleting what's below.
It has a very powerful ripple mode that you can customise to your liking or turn off.
It exports aaf and also to premiere fcpx and after effects so you can use that option to get a decent edl or omf.
As far as I am aware it only has one source viewer but not sure about that. I really don't understand why people keep giving it a miss. Every time I end up editing on something else and have to send to audition or try audio in fcpx I miss having everything all in one, and I have yet to experience anything close to vegas for the way it does multicam, I am specifically talking about being able to split the multicam track after my edit back into single camera tracks, this is the easiest way to color match cameras by using the aforementioned track fx. Oh and did I mention that there is no transcoding, and you can switch frame rate and size of your project at any time, oh and yeah performance and rendering is unmatched, even by mercury playback.

My 2c

Dave
http://www.solidmedia.ie

Macbook Pro 17" i7 2.2 8GB
iMac i7 2.8 16GB
FCP 7 FCPX Adobe CS 5.5


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 10:22:33 pm

Concur Dave - based on Dominic's "wants" list - Vegas would meet just about every need except multiple source windows - but I use the Trimmer window in Vegas and never miss a Source window - and I cut narrative work all the time.

That's not to say Vegas doesn't have its quirks and problems - no NLE is perfect - but since I always Sound Design as I cut I have found no other NLE to match Vegas in it's massive array of tools and workflows. It truly offers Pro Tools quality sound editing and mixing along with everything I need to cut picture. Now if Sony can just improve the built-in color tools...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Dominic Deacon
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 10:47:29 pm

Never tried Vegas but it's on the list. The only holding me back is if you click over to the Vegas Cow forum there's dozxens of posts about stability issues. I've kind of got used to never having to worry about crashing.


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Dominic Deacon
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 13, 2012 at 10:58:57 pm

BTW when I talk about wanting Edius performance this is what I am talking about. It just got posted on my facebook timeline today:





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alban egger
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 14, 2012 at 5:57:09 am

Yep, looks like Edius and the astonishing is: it was like that already in 2007 with 720p editing like butter on a duo-core.

Fcpx on a 2011 Macbook pretty much does this in 1080 as well. So Edius is not alone on the moving-playhead-front anymore.



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Tero Ahlfors
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 14, 2012 at 8:09:29 am

[Dominic Deacon] "BTW when I talk about wanting Edius performance this is what I am talking about"

So... Have you tried Premiere with a decent GPU? I stacked 15 layers of full HD video with effects and it ran in realtime. You can also tweak the effects in realtime.


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Bret Williams
Re: Here's what I want:
on Oct 14, 2012 at 2:28:28 pm

"FCP can gargle by balls" - Was that part of the Edius campaign? I don't remember that.

Overall, it pretty much looks like FCP X in power and performance. Not sure about that 16 layers thing. They were all the same clip.


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