FORUMS: list search recent posts

The inevitable move away from FCP 7

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Steven Austin
The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 6:02:09 am

Hope I'm posting in the right place...

I've been cutting on FCP since 5/6/7 and now so frustrated with the support abandonment issue, that I decided to change to another vendor within 6 months.

(FCP X just isn't right for me; it's not an option so please don't ask why.)

I'm trying to decide between Avid Media Composer (whom I hear is having financial liquidity issues) or Adobe Premiere or Sony Vegas*. My problem with the latter two is that I REALLY dislike PCs. Of course I am open-minded about what's best for my future but just the thought of going PC makes me queasy.

I've never cut on Vegas and haven't even touched Premiere since 2005.
The bulk of my business is in narrative genre: shorts, indie features and infotainment shows.

What do you fine folks recommend? I think that Avid is still relied on for the kind of work I described, but I need to back a (pardon the pun!) stable horse.

*I can buy Media Composer for an institutional rate, ($300 I believe). I already own Version 10 of Vegas, still unboxed.

Thanks for your thoughts!

"In modern action films, the only people who work up a sweat are the editors." -- Roger Ebert


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 7:34:38 am

Adobe Premiere...the whole CS6 package...runs on Macs too. So no need to go PC on that one. It's better on PC, I hear...but works fine on Macs.

As for Avid...it isn't going anywhere. It sold off the consumer part of the business in order to stay focused on the pro market. It is still the primary choice for feature films and broadcast TV. And I don't see that changing anytime soon. Heck, it's only $300 if you can get the education discount. Go for it.

Adobe Creative Cloud has a monthly use fee...so you can use it when you want. It's a pretty decent app. Many people call it "the FCP 8 we all wanted." Well...sorta. It lacks a lot of the functionality of FCP...but has benefits over FCP as well.

If you want straight cutting with minor effects and limited graphics...Avid is a good option. If you need lots of graphics and slick titles and a full package...get Adobe.

I'm cutting a broadcast show on Avid at the moment. And Walter Biscardi is cutting a series on Adobe Premiere Pro. Both doing fine for our needs.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Robert Brown
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 12:20:03 pm

I agree if you can get Avid that cheap go for it. Avid is good to know. But one thing PPro excels at is dealing with camera codecs. It's better than anything I've tried at dealing with footage right of the RAM card without having to transcode. I've got a project right now that has tons of footage that would be a nightmare to transcode. Avid has gotten better at that but they can't touch PPro.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 1:56:14 pm

Just to clarify. There is no Avid "liquify" issue. It is correct that they aren't turning quarterly profits right now, but they are close to that with plenty of cash in the bank. So it's more of a question of cash "burn rate" and how long they can do that if they don't turn it around.

Regardless, they are here in the short term and if the company doesn't survive, it's quite likely that the software would. As we've seen with Media 100 and Lightworks. The market is so fractured right now, that I doubt you can make any valid predictions past the next 3 years. In that short time frame, both Premiere Pro and Media Composer in their current versions can be very solid bets.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Benjamin Mullins
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 2:14:22 pm

I switched from FCP 7 to Premiere and I am very pleased with the experience so far. I primarily edit P2 and Premiere handles it with ease - no transcoding, just copy the card to a folder and import. The Mercury Playback Engine is excellent, allowing multiple layers of 1080p footage (with effects) to play back without needing to render. I do find exporting takes longer than in FCP7 and the number of plug-ins available seems limited however the integration with After Effects is excellent and more than makes up for this.

Although I use Premiere at work I use Media Composer for personal projects as knowledge across platforms is very important now I think. Media Composer is a very good NLE however the learning curve is a little steeper (coming from FCP7) than that of Premiere, but certainly not impossible and having worked through a few tutorial videos I find it a pleasure to use. The one thing with MC that is a little limited is how ridged the frame sizes (or raster sizes) seem to be. In Premiere, as with FCP, you can set your frame sizes to whatever you like, however in MC they are conformed to broadcast standard settings. If you are doing a lot of corporate work destined for the internet where you may use a variety of unconventional frame sizes you might find Premiere a more flexible choice.

Hope this helps,

Ben.



Return to posts index

Bernard Newnham
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 3:10:02 pm

"My problem with the latter two is that I REALLY dislike PCs. Of course I am open-minded about what's best for my future but just the thought of going PC makes me queasy."

Isn't marketing wonderful? Someone else who hasn't quite realised that a Mac and a PC are the same thing, just with different operating systems.

Bernie


Return to posts index


Neil Goodman
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 4:10:57 pm

you cant really go wrong with Avid. Industry standard and all that. Not really sure why people say you cant use it to make stylish edits and whatnot. While its no Ppro6/ AE combo, MC and Avid FX is a pretty powerfull FX package, high end titles, flashy transitions, the whole nine. Justnot quite as intuitive as other packages out there but it can be done and is way more advanced FX wise than FCP legacy ever was. As far as basic editing, you cant beat it imo, the trim tool is magic.

That said Prpo 6 is also a very capable NLE, works on MACS, can literally throw just about anything inie natively, borrowed some cool trim stuff from avid and is set to turn into a great option. Until i get booked on Ppro6 gig tho, its avid all the way for me.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


Return to posts index

Steven Austin
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 4:45:08 pm

Thanks everyone for your great advice. (I noticed that Sony Vegas did not really enter into the conversation.)
Seems like PP is the more expensive, but user-friendly option for a FCP ex-patariot.
Hopefully 9 gigs of RAM, a 10,000 rpm Raptor drive and the original quad core tower is enough horsepower to run it. 'Cuz that's all I have!
Thanks again!

"In modern action films, the only people who work up a sweat are the editors." -- Roger Ebert


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 6:20:15 pm

9GB of RAM? That's an odd number. For proper efficiency, RAM should be in even number configurations.

16GB of RAM is the minimum I'd want for Premiere anyway. And a really good graphics card...one that enables the Mercury Engine. Without a decent amount of RAM and the Mercury Engine, editing formats natively won't be a smooth experience. That's how Adobe solves issues of editing native...it throws resources at it. The more the better.

As for Robert's comment "Avid has gotten better at that but they can't touch PPro" while that might be true in terms of editing native, it far from the truth when it comes to offline/online editing...and media management. PPro's media management is still terrible, worse than FCPs. Reconnecting is a pain. Sure, you have to transcode to work in Media Composer, but that means that you don't need GOBS of RAM or a fast processor or a big ass graphics card to edit smoothly.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index


Shawn Miller
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 7:08:28 pm

[Shane Ross] "Sure, you have to transcode to work in Media Composer, but that means that you don't need GOBS of RAM or a fast processor or a big ass graphics card to edit smoothly."

You can get by on modest resources in Premiere Pro, if you're just editing. The gobs of RAM mostly comes in handy when you're working between applications via Dynamic Link. For processor intensive formats and CODECS, a fast RAID array and transcoding to something like AVC-Intra, Cineform, DNxHD or Prores is probably ideal. This is where Prelude can help out immensely; once you've chosen your selects and your output/production folder, Prelude can then import those assets directly into Premiere.

Thanks,

Shawn



Return to posts index

Frank Gothmann
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 9:21:23 pm

I'll throw in my usually neglected and overseen new buddy Edius. Give the trial version a shot. It's smoking even on middle class machines with little ram and older gpus, it's faster than PP and Avid and takes everything native.
As an editing tool, it's the closest to FCP classic that you can get (even considering PP CS6's new features and enhancements).

------
"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 12, 2012 at 11:39:16 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "I'll throw in my usually neglected and overseen new buddy Edius."

I keep meaning to try Edius, given that I've heard so many good things about it. :-)

Shawn



Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 13, 2012 at 2:31:48 am

[Shawn Miller] " and transcoding to something like AVC-Intra, Cineform, DNxHD or Prores is probably ideal. This is where Prelude can help out immensely; once you've chosen your selects and your output/production folder, Prelude can then import those assets directly into Premiere."

Hmmm...that sounds an awful like TRANSCODING to me. Not knocking it...I prefer it myself to the native processor intensive codecs. But that right there negates the speed difference of PPro over Avid in terms of not needing to transcode before you start editing.

I'm not knocking it...I LOVE it. I like what Prelude does. You can even choose to import only parts of clips...just like FCP.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 14, 2012 at 11:20:00 pm

[Shane Ross] "
Hmmm...that sounds an awful like TRANSCODING to me. Not knocking it...I prefer it myself to the native processor intensive codecs."


Definitely, I like that you have the option to work this way if you want to. I would actually like to see Adobe invest in it's own intermediate CODEC... perhaps based on CinemaDNG. Who knows, maybe one day.

[Shane Ross] "But that right there negates the speed difference of PPro over Avid in terms of not needing to transcode before you start editing."

I don't doubt that. If I didn't depend so heavily on Dynamic Link between PPro and AE, I think there's a fair chance that I would be on Avid now.

Shawn



Return to posts index

Georg P. Muller
Re: The inevitable move away from FCP 7
on Oct 16, 2012 at 4:13:05 am

I, too am looking for a new home after FCP 7 was EOLed. This has happened to me once before, when Discreet Edit was discontinued. My switch to FCP then was successful and I felt I gained something. Sure I was missing some of edit's incredible features, but the move from Windows NT to OSX more than compensated for it.

I jumped onto FCPX when it came out a year ago but even though I found it was a beautifully thought out and designed software I was put off by its sluggishness in its first incarnation. I could get around the concept and even work with the magnetic timeline, but it was too slow for long form.

So I moved over to premiere. I just cut a long and complex documentary on premiere CS6. In my humble opinion it is just not ready for prime time yet. Just open a project with thousands of clips. It takes forever to load. Why does it have to load each and every clip and what is that conform thing doing on first import, can't that be switched off? Auto save is constantly in my face, and it saves very slowly. These two things alone are driving me nuts.

I took a lot of effort customizing the keyboard to resemble final cut as good as I could, but still, I find the interface clumsy and cumbersome. Copy and paste always results with the clip in the wrong track, overwrite edit wants me to not only select the track I wish to write into but also to de-select the ones I don't want to be affected. Export is super slow, mercury playback buggy in 6.0.2 (had to turn that off on my mac pro with GTX 285), etc., etc. I know many people are very happy with premiere, I am just not, but I keep my eye on updates.

Simultaneously I have been working on another 52-minutes documentary on another machine in good old final cut. I enjoy that so much more, it reminds me how thought out and good it was and how hard it will be to find adequate replacement. Still sad it has been killed. For now I will stick with it and play some more with FCPX - maybe this is the direction I will go. Not sure about Avid, sounds like the logical choice, but I don't know why, I never really got into it.

Looking forward to the updates while still clinging to FCP 7 for critical work...


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]