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Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change

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Paul Boone
Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 22, 2012 at 6:55:05 pm

I spent several years using FCP7 and recently took a job in the last 3 months that involved using FCPX. I'm switching to Adobe CS6 for several reasons. I need a whole suite because I'll be doing work with other professionals and who don't use FCPX, so whether is great or terrible, it really doesn't matter because it just isn't used in the professional world. My recent job was a summer camp with low budget, which is why fcpx was used.

FCPX had some great things that I really liked (and others I absolutely hated). The speed controls to do slow and fast motion were pretty amazing, especially for a skateboard video I made, and I'm wondering what the alternative in Premiere or After Effects would be.

So, should I still make my personal skateboard videos in FCPX or just totally switch to Adobe? FCPX seems to have some great features for my hobby videos so it still might have a place on my computer.

Can Premiere use different frame rates in the same project? What is the Adobe alternative workflow for this?

Thanks!
Paul Boone


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Paul Jay
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 11:38:28 am

Fcpx has optical flow.

Or use twixtor.


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Bernhard Grininger
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 1:56:13 pm

Hello,

while PremierePro in many regards is great;
but image processing (Scaling, De-Interlacing, etc.) is it's weak point!

FCP-X let You do de-interlacing, framerate-adjustement and
general speed-changes with optical flow analysis.

If You nevertheless want to do a good speed changes in PP,
make your speed changes inside PP,
THEN send Your clip to AfterFX (don't forget to set composition to 32bit float),
and set frame-blending to Pixel-Motion.
This is Adobe's equivalent to optical flow.

BDW:
I don't understand why Adobe don't give us Pixel-Motion inside PP;
or implements a good de-interlacing with the same technology;
or super-resolution upscaling;
(increases resolution using details from surrounding frames);
or temporal noise filtering...

Best regards,
Bernhard


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andy lewis
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 2:14:47 pm

"while PremierePro in many regards is great;
but image processing (Scaling, De-Interlacing, etc.) is it's weak point!"

Oh no! Really? I'm about to move to PPro and these are weak points of FCP7 that I was looking forward to leaving behind.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 2:37:40 pm

After Effects makes up for some or most of what Premiere is lacking in this regard.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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andy lewis
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 2:41:59 pm

Thanks David.

Will I have to go through AE just for decent quality scaling?


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Bernhard Grininger
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 3:03:04 pm

FCP7 wasn't all too bad at image processing!;
better than many other NLEs;
image processing is the weak point of nearly ALL NLEs out there.
Thats the bitter truth!

The very best software image processing in an NLE I've seen so far was in Smoke2013!
The Lanczos-scaling (Adaptive field processing turned on) produces sharp, clear images without unpleasant artifacts!


Scaling in PremierePro actually is better than in AfterFX, see here:
http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2010/10/scaling-in-premiere-pro-...
AfterFX uses Bicubic (BAD), and PremierePro uses Lanczos2 (GOOD);
but only if You have GPU acceleration.

But for me it is still too blurred. I wished Premiere would let us choose and adjust the scaling method just like Smoke...


Best regards,
Bernhard


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 3:49:53 pm

If you don't like what you see in Premiere on one shot, you canal ways use dynamic linking to open that clip (or more) in AE to do scaling and/or other effects.

FYI, Discreet Edit* had similar integration with its comanion app, Combustion, nearly twelve years ago, and it was seamless. It's not a bad way to work, as it gives you the immense power of a dedicated compositor and VFX engine on any or all clips on the timeline.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Bernhard Grininger
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 4:41:57 pm

I do like more what I see in PP than what I see in AfterFX when it comes to scaling.
But what I see in Smoke2013 I like at most!

Dynamic Linking is great;
but I still do not understand why Pixel-Motion is only available in AfterFX.

Best regards,
Bernhard


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 5:10:23 pm

I'd imagine pixel-motion / optical-flow isn't available in Premier due to licence issues or costs. After Effects uses non-Adobe tech for it's optical-flow retiming.

http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/kronos/

That said, FCPX is far far better than FCP7 at scaling and retiming. I have yet to compare it in detail to After Effects or Premier Pro but After Effects seems to produce much better scaling results than FCP7 in general.

Do note I base this on working with progressive footage. Interlaced footage might vary a lot.


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Bernhard Grininger
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 5:42:03 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "After Effects uses non-Adobe tech for it's optical-flow retiming."

Really? Haven't known that! As far as I now back in CS4 it was available in PP as well.

What about the Warp Stabilizer? Doesn't it also use optical flow for analysis?


Interlaced scaling in AfterFX (bad field flickering) is sharper than FCP7 but suffers bad field flickering
interlaced scaling in FCPX is extreme blurred; FCP7 was definitely better.

Only talking about interlaced scaling here.

Best regards,
Bernhard


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 5:46:40 pm

The Warp Stabilizer was I think fully developed by Adobe where the optical flow time-remapping in AE is a licensed product. I would imagine Adobe could figure something self-owned out like that have with the new 3D-tracker. That said, they are still licensing Mocha as well for a good reason.


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Paul Boone
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 6:57:00 pm

Wow, thanks for the info! I really liked FCPX for skateboard videos because I pretty much use variable speed change on every clip so I might use FCPX for this

When I used FCPX for slow-mo, I first batch conformed all my clips from 60p to 24p using cinema tools. Should I still use Cinema Tools to conform first if I'm using Adobe? Is there anything in Adobe that will conform footage to 24p?

What's the deal with Smoke? I've looked into FCP Avid and Adobe.. is autodesk something to seriously consider? I guess all the jobs I look into use Adobe, FCP7 or Avid, but now I'm curious. Is Smoke up and coming?


Paul Boone


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Bernhard Grininger
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 7:36:09 pm

Very hard to say. It appears to me Smoke is still searching it's destiny on the market.

If you are a quality junkie :-) then Smoke is simply the fulfillment of your dreams!
Scaling, de-interlacing, noise reduction, tracking... all of the finest and adjustable.
Editing and Compositing well integrated into one app. Currently no Color Grading! (Hope this one changes.) Currently restricted to AJA hardware (Kona3G, IoXT).

But if you are searching for a NLE primary for, well, EDITING,
I would suggest you test it yourself if it fulfills your demands.
Smoke2013 is currently in open beta status and so long it is for free.


Best regards,
Bernhard


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Liam Hall
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 23, 2012 at 9:17:28 pm

[Paul Boone] "When I used FCPX for slow-mo, I first batch conformed all my clips from 60p to 24p using cinema tools. Should I still use Cinema Tools to conform first if I'm using Adobe? Is there anything in Adobe that will conform footage to 24p?"

No need to batch conform, you just control click on the footage from within PP and choose Modify/Interpret footage to change your frame rate. Simple.

Liam Hall
Director/DoP/Editor
http://www.liamhall.net


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Ian Bailey
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 24, 2012 at 8:25:30 am

[Paul Boone] "When I used FCPX for slow-mo, I first batch conformed all my clips from 60p to 24p using cinema tools."

No need to do this for FCPX. Drop your 60fps clips into a 24fps Timeline, select them all and choose Conform Speed from the ReTime menu.


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Bret Williams
Re: Premiere vs. FCPX - What's best for slow motion/speed change
on Sep 27, 2012 at 5:35:19 am

NICE!


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