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Associated Press switches to Premiere pro

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Greg Andonian
Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 6:46:41 am

I saw this in the Tedious Track Based post, and thought it deserved its own thread:

http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/customer-success/pdfs/associated-...

(I'll never doubt you again, Aindreas... :) )

______________________________________________
"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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alban egger
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 10:51:59 am

They could just as well use imovie or windows moviemaker for their news-chopjobs, couldn't they



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Rafael Amador
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 11:07:31 am

[alban egger] "They could just as well use imovie or windows moviemaker for their news-chopjobs, couldn't they"
Even FCPX.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 11:19:27 am

And indeed they looked at the options out there and carefully chose Premiere Pro. That's the point.

And while they do a lot of cuts type editing, it isn't as simple as all that and of course there are different products that they create many of which involve a fair amount of graphics and edits.

Dennis


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 11:24:11 am

there are different levels of packages produced in camden - a lot of it is wholesale material to be used by third parties, but not all of it. I would also presume that adobe lifted their skirts and showed adobe anywhere early. Also prelude is pretty handy in the context of a place like AP - have you tried prelude? its really nice. I've been messing around a fair bit - its like a log and transfer, batch encoder, rough edit assemble tool rolled into one. I find it very nice. Just as a transcoder alone - its heavily optomised for hyper-threading. its very fast. And it certifies the batch encode at the end, which I find a really nice touch.

And I'm finally starting to do proper study on premiere. It has a very good, highly responsive timeline. very little chrome, highly highly responsive.
PPro6 cuts avchd on a 2008 macpro witha crappy radeon card without a problem - so thats camera native editing, on four year old hardware.

Total lack of drop shadows, GUI dissolves, clips moving around each other like poltergeists. just highly, highly responsive. Its a very good editing system. The only complaint I have on the timeline is that the trim tools are a tiny bit in your face - very red, and very yellow, maybe a fraction large. but thats serious nit picking.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 1:32:10 pm

I think some are missing the key takeaway from this announcement. That a major media organization is making the switch.

It doesn't matter what they cut or how much Adobe "gave" them. They would not use a tool that would hurt the business based on a discount.

The one thing that will influence my decision will be availability of freelance editors. I rely on having 3 to 4 freelancers a day in our shop cutting. Not a single one has embraced X but most have started to edit with Premiere for one reason, they already have it.

Features aside, my choice is what is best for the business and what I need to get the job done, and it is leaning towards Premiere, which I would imagine the position the AP was in.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 2:13:34 pm

yes. I've been saying it for way too long, but I think you can feel the drift to premiere starting - I've started to see "PREMIERE" appearing beside the ever-present "FCP" and "AFTEREFFECTS" folders in the jobs project folder in a few places.

I'm hoping to be in a position to reliably cut with it by the time winter kicks in.

[Michael Hendrix] "most have started to edit with Premiere for one reason, they already have it."

this more than anything - there's a bit to get used to, and I haven't really yet, and some stuff you miss, but not a lot. And you get a lot of nice new things.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 6:13:18 pm

Its all I'm sayin... I do know of one major sports group is rumored to be changing to Premiere and my guess is not so much as how good Premiere is but integration with other Adobe apps and Prelude seems to be turning a few brows.

For me, I am trying it fully on a project this week, start to finish. So we will see, but all I know, is our IT department is pushing for me to make a decision as they have just Certified CS6 and want to reimage our computers with new OS and software.



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David Lawrence
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 9:19:08 pm

I think another key take away from the announcement is this:
“We evaluated every major editing solution on the market, and Adobe Premiere Pro provided the best-in-breed solution we needed,” says David Hoad, AP director of global video technology. “This was not only for its professional editing capabilities, but also for its integration with our Miranda and Gallery SIENNA asset management systems.”
Asset management is a huge deal for any large production enterprise, representing a major investment in time, money and infrastructure. It doesn't matter how interesting or theoretically flexible Apple's organization system in FCPX is. Enterprise customers will always demand an open system that works the way they want it to and connects to infrastructures of their own design. The risk of Apple's proprietary system alone, likely makes it untenable for many enterprise users.

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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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Mitch Ives
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 2:56:39 pm

I wouldn't read so much into it. Sadly, the AP is no longer the paragon it once was. They make bad editorial decisions daily. They're one of the least reliable news sources if you want all the facts. Given their proclivity to make bad decisions, why is everyone acting like they're infallible in this choice?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 5:13:09 pm

Who said they were infallible in making the choice? From what I've read, the news is that they made the choice. And from the stones some of the posters have thrown here that it's just news anyway (yuck! who would lower themselves to cut news) it seems that the elitists who sometimes slum in these forums are alive and well. Just in case you haven't noticed, most feature films and documentaries are cuts only as well.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Lemur Hayop
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 5:23:57 pm

The fluffy PR piece doesn't say AP switched from another NLE. The way it reads, AP is virgin in video and selected Premiere Pro. "Recently, AP invested in its video business...." Perhaps AP is switching from typewriter to 21st century technology.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 5:59:05 pm

I'll ask what they used to use, but I'm guessing it was something like newscutter or its ilk. they have other stuff for producers batching together clips with script and dialogue transcripts.

its not typewriters tho - think of AP Camden like an amazon stock warehouse for news material. large volumes of stuff being collated, but they do produce their own packages as well as bagging together the base GVs, IVs quotes material for another broadcaster to construct a tailored package.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Michael Sanders
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 8:41:21 pm

AP's head office in Camden was originally a Gin warehouse for Gordon's gin and is called The Interchange because its where gin went from the canal boats to the railways.

In 1990-91 the building was bought by Worldwide TV News (WTN) - which was formed from the joint operation of United Press and ITN (UPITN). When we moved there in 1992 the operation was based around Betacam SP and featured one of the first Odetics cart machines in the UK. Feeds would come in via satellite and get recorded on to Beta SP. The story would get recut down to time with the rubbish/horror/reframes etc taken out on one of 10 or so machine to machine Beta SP edit suites. There were also two studios (one dedicated to chromakey and the ITV weather) and a couple of three machine suites used for the magazine show's based around vista's and ACE25's.

AP started their TV news operation from scratch in 1994 but in 1999 bought WTN and merged the two TV operations into one at Camden. Last I heard they had switched in around 2000 to a form of non linear editor so the journo's could do their own editing. I can't remember if it was Avid newscutter or Quantel EQ.

As I'm not really news based now I couldn't tell you what happened over the past 10 years but I do know the head of ops so I could find out..

It could be that with the switch to HD a change was due but heres the interesting bit that occurred to me last night:

AP make ENPS (Essentential/Electronic News Production System). ENPS is in use in virtually every TV and radio newsroom around the globe (including all the biggies like the BBC and ITN).

I would suggest Adobe's plan is simple: Get Premier etc working tightly with ENPS and there's a sodding big market. Even if integration isn't on the cards, marketing by interference is great: If the provider of your main news production s/w uses Premier who are you to argue!

Also as I said I'm sure AP is pretty much PC based so that reduces the choice...

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Michael Sanders
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 9, 2012 at 8:43:06 pm

Which is all a shame as I reckon FCP X with its keyword search and multi event set up would work a killer in a news environment.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 12:50:38 am

Hi Michael -

ENPS and Premiere Pro have been working together for some time - Adobe's initial foray into the collaboration was making ENPS work for Hearst Corporation, and incorporating it into their 28 broadcast stations.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 10:21:29 am

[Michael Sanders] "Also as I said I'm sure AP is pretty much PC based so that reduces the choice..."

They are primarily Mac based in the US at least. I can't comment on other geos.


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Michael Sanders
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 10:30:10 am

Thank you - I stand corrected.

Last time I saw an AP TV journo in the field in the UK, I was sure he was using a PC - it was wrong of me to base everything on that but just looking at the specs for ENPS though it only runs on Windows.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 10:39:23 am

Hey - I checked - they're editing on macs.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Michael Sanders
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 12:29:47 pm

Oh well - wrong again thanks for the clarification.

Makes the choice even more interesting...

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 1:54:11 pm

I haven't read the article, but I would think the CS broad native format support makes this an easy decision.

Imx, XDCam, p2, MXF, being able to ingest and output all of these fairly easily in the CS would be a huge help in news organizations.

There's also "growing" (think streaming) MXF file support built right in to Pr now as well.

While I think a lot of us think creatively on this forum, my guess is that this decision was made on a lot of technical merit for which Adobe has some great things going.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 3:05:24 pm

I should have read this first before posting. From the article:

"Adobe engineering also worked to make it possible to edit a growing file, a key requirement for editing a live story as it happens. Producers cannot always wait for a recording to finish before distributing the stories. The new system lets them make quick editorial decisions and edit a story while it is still being recorded, making it possible for AP teams to deliver final stories faster than ever. This helps AP fulfill demand for real-time access to news content spurred on by several factors, including the advent of 24-hour news channels."

Also, there's now "smart rendering" of certain formats (XDcam being one of them) that fit right in to this style of workflow. Cuts only, no effects.

This makes Pr a no brainer in this situation. Nice work.

Jeremy


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 3:09:15 pm

I'd say you're right on the money, Jeremy. The broadcast station I worked at until 2009, agonized over the transition to HD and digital for years. Engineering was in charge of the project, and our chief engineer at the time didn't want to hear anything from the guys who were in the trenches, using the tools they planned on buying. We were based on Photoshop, Combustion, and Edit* for several years, with workstations doing News, Promotions, Commercial Production, and a daily news magazine format show. With 3 Edit* stations, we were handling the workflow (I was Art Director/Senior Graphic Designer, and providing "pieces" for all of the above, from the on-air look, to elements.

Our NYC headquarters struck up a deal with AVID, with no input whatsoever from us (no surprise there in the big corporate world), and we were suddenly working on four AVID Newscutters, SD versions, with the promise (AVID loved to make expensive promises at the time) of an HD card that for 15 thousand bucks, would just drop in to the boxes we were using. This was the start of our trouble. The AVIDs came in, some minimal training was provided, and our workpace slowed by about 40 percent. We had brought a demo in of the Adobe Creative Suite (at the time, I believe, CS3), and our chief engineer refused to even look at it. Bear in mind, that by this time, we had standardized on Photoshop and After Effects for all of our graphics work, with Combustion still be used for tracking and keying where needed.

As the problems with the AVID systems (Unity, hardware, crashes, lost media, lots of downtime) escalated, we heard through the corporate grapevide that our owners were now "considering" going with Adobe products, and would we kindly set up a test edit station using Premiere Pro (by then CS4). We did, and the AVIDs quickly became capture stations to get media to our Premiere Pro workstations over the network.

Sorry about the long post, but I wanted to show you how convoluted the decision-making process can be when you've got a corporate engineering department, a local one, and then people who actually know what they're working with. It's a twisted path, and there are things that would never enter into the mind of the single decision-maker which get jumped on when there's a corporate chain of command to mess it up.

In case anyone's interested, here's the PR from 2009 when the final jump was made to Adobe:
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200909/HearstTelevi...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 3:58:24 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Sorry about the long post, "

Are you kidding? This is awesome.

Thanks for writing it up.

Jeremy


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 6:00:36 pm

Joe, did you ever notice the decisions always seemed after the wine and dine (and private meetings) of NAB? Hmmm.....just sayin.



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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 6:21:17 pm

Michael -

I was just the Art Director - I wasn't invited to attend the NAB - just the Engineering Department. But I honestly think they would have made the wrong choices before or after the wine and dine. This was a corporate culture that hired management just barely capable of doing the job, so that they could mold them into good little corporate drones.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 10, 2012 at 8:42:07 pm

I was brought in on a sunday to defend the decision to deploy FCP and xsan across promos and design at aljazeera english just before launch, I'd actually helped spec the systems for the promo suites, (I'll have lots of macs with blackmagic and things please, and an 80TB Xsan while you're at it)
but then there was a massive push to management by engineering to reverse the decision right before launch and force us all onto PCs running grass valley's weird edius system feeding directly into their K2 storage system.

I knew hardly anything about edius, I just knew I wanted FCP, so I started banging on about edius's poor effects architecture, and the lack of qualified freelancers to drive it when we needed them, then when I was asking the demo guy about it, I realised that it didn't have OMF export out for the audiopost suite (which it didn't then) - grass valley were expecting everyone (including long form doco cutters) to lay A1 to A4 stems down onto the hdcam and let the audiopost guys sort it out, in a station with one audiopost suite, that was churning out 30 minut docos like they were going out of style - I leapt on it and a made a holy show about how it was unacceptable that a pro editing system couldn't talk properly to audiopost - the head of engineering looked murderously annoyed, and our creative director was nearly clapping his hands as he was very keen that we stay mac based.

Engineering gave up after that - everyone else got lumped with edius and we stayed FCP - but they basically swore that we would never have proper access to the K2, and that we would never have dedicated decks - all that they would offer our four suites was a shared tieline to *one* of the decks in the machine room on the other side of the station - with a KVM switcher.

Not that Grass Valley would ever have induced engineering to blanket the station in their slightly weird editing system, we never heard rumours of junkets, financial inducements or anything awful like that. oh no.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Michael Sanders
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 11, 2012 at 8:02:04 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Not that Grass Valley would ever have induced engineering to blanket the station in their slightly weird editing system, we never heard rumours of junkets, financial inducements or anything awful like that. oh no."

But this sort of behaviour goes way back. When the small scandinavian satellite station I worked for moved from Camden to West Drayton there was a tender to build the station and the two main bidders were Ampex and Sony. Despite some blinding big issues that were raised beforehand the tender went to Ampex and over time it came back to bite people on the backside. The Ampex still store never worked properly and was soon replaced by a Quantel system. The Alex cap gens were soon replaced by Aston's and eventually (only after I'd left) the ACE25's were replaced by Sony 910's.

I am sure there were no bribes - it was just a very sweet deal.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 11, 2012 at 3:22:33 pm

Joe's experience in NLE selection is pretty typical in broadcasting. The bean counters and upper (not top) management select the tools. Those who have experience using the tools don't have much say in the matter.

What do they know, after all?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 11, 2012 at 9:44:47 pm

Amen Dave! I actually used to have a sign in my office, just to piss off management - it read:

"Don't ask me - I only know what I'm doing!"

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 12, 2012 at 12:03:42 am

Dave and Joe,

I have seen a wide range of reactions. From management dictating what will happen to where the editors are really making the decision. My experience tells me that when both management and creatives are talking together and sharing their needs, the best decision gets made.

As the guy who many times gets the privilege of working with both management and creative, I find that working with both allows me the ability to show how an Adobe solution would work best in their environment (or not.)

Dennis


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 12, 2012 at 2:36:36 am

I'm with you there, Dennis. The best tools are always chosen when there is a mutual trust between the technical people and those in the tranches.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Richard Herd
Re: Associated Press switches to Premiere pro
on Sep 13, 2012 at 8:31:47 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "The broadcast station I worked at until 2009..."

WOW! That was a great post. I hope the finance and audit departments stayed out of your way :)


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