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Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?

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Anders Haavie
Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 30, 2012 at 8:26:07 pm

Does anyone know if anyone has been fired for the FCPX f**kup ? Or do Apple still think they did the right thing, even after the whole postproduction world left them ?

Someone should get the boot. At least the guy who though that it was a good idea to make people believe it was still a proapp after the makeover.

Anders

Xraid-Xserve-Xsan-Xeverything


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Steve Connor
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 30, 2012 at 8:32:20 pm

Have we entered a time warp, is it last year again?

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


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Charlie Austin
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 30, 2012 at 9:08:44 pm

[Steve Connor] "Have we entered a time warp, is it last year again?
"


LOL. These kinds of posts are just laughable at this point...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Joseph Owens
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 30, 2012 at 8:49:39 pm

[Anders Haavie] "do Apple still think they did the right thing, "

You have the cart before the horse. Apple purged everyone who was not on board during the development of the X version, so the entire organization is on the same pitcher of KoolAid. By definition, there can be no mistake. It is within the corporate orthodoxy of internal infallibility. People who have never edited a national spot, feature film or long-form documentary know more about the process than those who do. It could be argued that the 3-5 minute "B"-roll news clip or YouTube short will supersede all other forms of recorded entertainment, mostly due to mass audience ADD.

Do people even listen through a whole song on their iPods anymore before clicking to something else?

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Brian Mulligan
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 30, 2012 at 11:39:51 pm

.


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Brian Mulligan
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 30, 2012 at 11:40:46 pm

[Joseph Owens] "You have the cart before the horse. Apple purged everyone.... "

I started reading your post but then something shiny came along. Could you please rewrite it and keep it under 140 chars please.

Brian Mulligan
Senior Editor - Autodesk Smoke
WTHR-TV Indianapolis,IN, USA
Twitter: @bkmeditor


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Chris Conlee
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 12:41:18 am

[Joseph Owens] "You have the cart before the horse. Apple purged everyone who was not on board during the development of the X version, so the entire organization is on the same pitcher of KoolAid. By definition, there can be no mistake. It is within the corporate orthodoxy of internal infallibility. People who have never edited a national spot, feature film or long-form documentary know more about the process than those who do. It could be argued that the 3-5 minute "B"-roll news clip or YouTube short will supersede all other forms of recorded entertainment, mostly due to mass audience ADD.

Do people even listen through a whole song on their iPods anymore before clicking to something else?"


Phew, that is a LONG response. I'll read the second half tomorrow...if I remember too.

Chris


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John Godwin
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 12:08:50 am

No, adults run things there.


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Shane Ross
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 12:55:42 am

Who's getting fired? A small but loud group of people complained (count me in that group), but others cheered. Apple has sold over a million copies, it has made them money. Still selling well. The are catering to a wide swath of users, and it has served them well.

And in the process, they have saved Avid from the brink. FCP was poised to take over the market it used to dominate. Then X came out and caused a lot of us in that industry to switch back.

OH no...people behind this move most likely got bonuses.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Leo Hans
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 2:21:06 am

Saved Avid???

Avid is not a healty company. They sold the only profitable part of it.
MC is loosing 20% income year after year.
Avid could be the best, but it seems that, at the end of the day, people is using other NLEs to do their work done.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 4:57:39 pm

[Leo Hans] "They sold the only profitable part of it."

NO, they sold their CONSUMER editing apps, not the PROFESSIONAL ones. They are retaining the more profitable parts.

[Leo Hans] "Avid could be the best, but it seems that, at the end of the day, people is using other NLEs to do their work done."

Not in my town (Los Angeles). People are flocking back to Avid. Adobe is gaining some ground, taking over in a few smaller areas that used to use FCP. Well, "flocking" is a strong word. This town moves slow when it comes to editing systems. They change only when they are forced to, so people are still using FCP 7...still using Avid Meridians and Express Pro, still using Avid MC3. The amount of seats that have upgraded to Avid MC 6 are minimal. Over time they will. L.A. is a big ship, and it takes a long time (years...many years), for it to turn around.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Tim Wilson
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 5:38:42 pm

We've talked about this in other threads....and talked and talked....and I still haven't heard the first bit of evidence that this was a mistake FOR APPLE. For any one of you, perhaps, disaster, but I still think that this is already a big win FOR APPLE, and will turn out to be an even more massive win FOR APPLE as time goes by.

Look, there's no company that has been more capricious, if not crueler, to its customers. It has regularly burned its current customer base to the ground in order to clear the way for the customer base it actually wants -- and the customers it has and the customers it wants have often had very little overlap.

As I've said....and said and said....this is what makes Apple great. They're not bound by the past, not the pasts of any or all industries, not their own. Refusal to be bound by limitations of the past is the foundation of innovation.

By contrast, which company is most tied to satisfying current customers, and allowing those customers to keep doing exactly what they're doing for as long as possible? Microsoft. They just had the best quarter in the company's entire history, driven almost entirely by sales of Windows.

Their actual innovation, though, is easily 10 years in the rear-view mirror. Are you excited to have Apple's most creative years 10 years in the past? Oh, wait, their last innovation for editing before this one WAS 10 years in the past. (Even ProRes came 4 years AFTER Avid released DNxHD.) So maybe so.

But I don't think so really. I think you WANT an Apple who aggressively innovates, even if you'd rather that they not innovate their foot right up your bottom. It's just the wheel of karma. Hang around Apple long enough, and it will roll right over you, as it has since the day the Mac was introduced over 28 years ago.

C'mon, admit it. This is why you love Apple. They keep starting over.


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Leo Hans
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 6:09:11 pm

Take a look at this:

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2012/07/avid-opposite-motley-fool-analysts-ad...

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Neil Goodman
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 1, 2012 at 2:54:09 pm

[Shane Ross] "Not in my town (Los Angeles). People are flocking back to Avid. Adobe is gaining some ground, taking over in a few smaller areas that used to use FCP. Well, "flocking" is a strong word. This town moves slow when it comes to editing systems. They change only when they are forced to, so people are still using FCP 7...still using Avid Meridians and Express Pro, still using Avid MC3. The amount of seats that have upgraded to Avid MC 6 are minimal. Over time they will. L.A. is a big ship, and it takes a long time (years...many years), for it to turn around."

Yup, were still on MC 4 for the most part, no ones talking about changing anything anytime soon, cause it works great for our mostly XDCAM workflow. The web counterpart is still rocking FCP 7 and there havent been any talks to going anywhere else yet. If it aint broke!

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Richard Herd
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 2, 2012 at 3:28:50 am

[Shane Ross] "L.A. is a big ship, and it takes a long time (years...many years), for it to turn around"

Yeah, but cash is still king. In a race-to-the-bottom scenario and the mythos of "digital revolution," one would expect Apple or Adobe to beat Avid, simply because they have more dough than Avid. And by beat Avid I mean put them out of business, in a decade. I say a decade because capital budgets are based (usually) based on 5 year depreciation schedules. So that's 2 capital investment cycles.

For Avid, the question is what are they gonna do now? How can they compete against Apple basically giving away FCPX and with Adobe's Creative Cloud monthly rental-cost structure? Does it really come down to hardware? <--These are actual questions by the way.


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Dean Neal
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 4:05:36 am

NEWS RELEASE

"Apple fired its entire Final Cut Pro X development team today, because instead of catering for the Television Production elite ONLY - some of which are still on DigiBeta, they saw the emerging Digital Age and social media as the next creative wave."

....riiiight.

As a National Television Producer/Director myself, I understand the frustrations with how Apple managed the transition from FCP 7 to X (poorly) but underestimate what software like this will do to our industry in the future AT YOUR PERIL.

Look at Acquisition and Product delivery cycles these days.

DSLR vision, quick ingest, edited by NLEs that provide the technology to turn content around quickly and get it on the 'net via YouTube or Vimeo or the myriad of HTML 5 enabled sites frothing up everywhere.

In every corner of my work, I see two schools of thinking either "This digital wave will undermine the way we have always worked" or "A bigger pool means to stand out, those who have the skills will be even more invaluable in this industry."

I am firmly in the latter mindset.

It all reinforces what we learnt in the first place, to stand out in the creative crowd will mean:

- Well produced and presented content.
- Edits done with the right grammar and continuity.
- Engaging content.

I see potentially a big future for FCP X. I see an even bigger future for the best talent to shine in a never more fragmented, burgeoning industry.

Dean Neal...


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Richard Herd
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 2, 2012 at 3:34:58 am

[Dean Neal] "Apple managed the transition from FCP 7 to X (poorly)"

That's like saying the French Revolution was a failure. ;0

Off with his head!
The king is dead.
Long live the king.

Revolutions are ugly...and not televised...d'oh!


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Christian Schumacher
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 2, 2012 at 7:32:44 pm

[Richard Herd] "That's like saying the French Revolution was a failure. ;0
"


HA! I see what you did there...That's funny, Richard!
But even then, it took a while to chop all heads off!
And, of course, the revolution led France to Napoleon...


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Tim Wilson
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 2, 2012 at 9:20:18 pm

I

[Christian Schumacher] "[Richard Herd] "That's like saying the French Revolution was a failure. ;0"

...And, of course, the revolution led France to Napoleon..."


I've observed elsewhere that Apple was like Robespierre, if Robespierre then cut off his OWN head...

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou

The typos here are most likely because I'm, a) typing this on my phone; and b) an idiot.


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Anders Haavie
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 5:39:44 am

Sorry if people felt that the posting was inappropriate. It is just a bit frustrating to see that everyone is switching away from FCP, and nothing has changed the last year. The betas are too little too late.

I agree that it is fanatastic that more people will be able to edit and it is democratizising the tool... but on the other hand. This was just what FCP 1.0 did, and it managed to get all the pros on board as well.

Anders

Xraid-Xserve-Xsan-Xeverything


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Charlie Austin
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 5:50:39 am

[Anders Haavie] "Sorry if people felt that the posting was inappropriate. It is just a bit frustrating to see that everyone is switching away from FCP, and nothing has changed the last year. The betas are too little too late.

Not sure that "everyone" is switching, and FWIW, a lot has changed in the last year. X has gone from a scarily buggy feature incomplete app, to a very cool and quite usable piece of software. Apple blew the launch, and a lot of people haven't really tried X since it came out. It's way better now.

[Anders Haavie] I agree that it is fanatastic that more people will be able to edit and it is democratizising the tool... but on the other hand. This was just what FCP 1.0 did, and it managed to get all the pros on board as well.
"


FCP 1.0 didn't get the pro's on board, most of 'em were making similar comments to what we're hearing now. "Pros" didn't really get on board 'til version 2 or 3. Let's see where X is in 2 years. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Michael Hoefler
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 7:51:30 am

Sorry Anders, but I don't know what you are talking about. I am finishing day by day for one of the biggest Pharma companies in the world corporate videos and make a living out of that. I used since 2000 FCP legacy for this business and since one year I am on FCP X. It has a fantastic keyer, if needed, I can create fast and with a very good quality together with motion stunning effects for my clients. All in budget and time. I can even edit in tracks and forget the magnetic timeline if needed. So, maybe it is not the tool for your business, but please don't call it not professional. With FCP X I have a faster turnaround on many jobs compared to FCP or PP.
That's just my experience. But we pros are facing a difficult future with a lot of opportunities and with the need to change and refresh our skills often. But we have some good tools at hand . FCP X is one.

Michael Hoefler


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Anders Haavie
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 10:51:25 am

I am quite sure FCP X can hold up in a one-man workgroup. I am talking big productionhouse (from 6 editingsuites and up on a SAN). Don't get me wrong. I love that more people get tools that make them edit more efficient, and it is great that anyone can make a movie. But please don't forget that there are differences between good editors and bad editors, and to be a good editor you need a good tool

Anders

Xraid-Xserve-Xsan-Xeverything


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alban egger
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 11:16:32 am

[Anders Haavie] " I am talking big productionhouse (from 6 editingsuites and up on a SAN)."

If that is your only concern with FCPX, then you might be in for a treat soon, because everything in X´s structure points to exactly that.



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Bill Davis
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 3:33:39 pm

I totally understand your desire to view the overall industry through the lens of the pro suite dominant past. For decades that was the only path to high quality..

But that's been changing for a long time now.

The week Walter Murch moved to "home editing" - the flight where some agency editor logged (or possibly cut) al spot on a cross country flight - tech advances from FireWire to thunderbolt - each of these and a lot more have made the suite approach less and less necessary and more and more optional.

Viewed in sensible terms, X is just another stage on the long evolutionary chain in editing.

Everything in every other part of the production process has been transformed by technology advances.

If you don't prefer to use X, that's fine. But what's the point of expending effort looking for "long after the fact" support for your choice not to learn or adopt it? Isn't your workflow better served by concentrating on whatever tool you've selected?

You won't change the opinions of those of us using X daily, because we're increasingly satisfied with our decisions to learn it.

I'm sorry that you are not and so have to keep coming back to reinforce yourself on the wisdom of your decisions to dismiss it.

Good fortune on your editing path.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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James Ewart
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 3, 2012 at 5:22:58 am

hello can you explain to me how you edit in tracks an forget the magnetic timeline. I would also like to do this but have not figured a workflow that does it

Been using FCP since version 1.2...it's been quite a journey


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Michael Hoefler
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 3, 2012 at 7:32:19 am

Hi James

Richard Taylor did a nice tutorial about this.

http://fcpx.tv/Pages/tracks.html

Michael


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Bill Davis
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 3, 2012 at 9:00:56 am

[James Ewart] "hello can you explain to me how you edit in tracks an forget the magnetic timeline. I would also like to do this but have not figured a workflow that does it
"


Essentially, if your brain is conditioned to how tracks used to operate - and you can't re-condition it, you're going to struggle.

The key principals are that instead of having a track layout system that works ONE way - exclusively in horizontal relationships between discrete clips (which is what tracks essentially were)- you have to start by seeing your work as stacks of clips in vertical relationships that you willfully establish as a primary editing mode.

It moving from thinking exclusively about stringing shots into strings defined bylength - and starting to think about buiding your program in "sections" by HEIGHT.

It's a scene approach, rather than a program approach, even tho we all understand that the program is just a collection of scenes. The important thing is to get the mindset that you have a new way to connect the assets in your segments that you never had before. And once you build those segments, you have a new tool, magnetism - whiich is extremely useful for rapid assembly of scenes.

If you can star to see yourjob as the editor as one of building these stacked relationships as a primary work method, then you discover that magnetism helps you greatly, since you can move your stacks (clip relationships) around at will and, unlike in the discrete track system, you'll never lose your clip positions relative to each other inside your stacks because not only are they are "magnetically linked" in that stack relationship - but the program keeps track of their relationship to other clips and stacks and automatically prevents distructive "clip collisions" which were extremely common in Legacy until we got conditioned to guarding against them.

The problem a lot of people have with X is moving on from the idea that all editing is necessarily working with discrete horizontal relationships in time. And re-imagining a system where the relative position between assets is more valued by the program than JUST their "track position" and timing.

Esssentially, this new X construct follows the X ideal of do work ONCE and leverage it over and over.

Once you build a clip arrangement , the program protects it and seeks to KEEP it intact.

Track based editing didn't do that at all.

In legacy, we had to constantly guard against inadvertent destructive actions like putting a long music cut on an audio track and failing to notice that we'd left a SFX down the timeline. If you did, the new import could easily KILL the SFX leaving no trace of it's prior existence. So it was easy to literally destroy elements in other parts of your timeline , precisely because the program couldn't know any better.

Now, X keeps track of clip relationships and preserves them, even to the point of moving them to different "tracks" as necessary to avoid these kinds of destructive clip collisions.

When you get used to it it's much easier since it's nearly impossible to make destructive mistakes.

If you want to move an element or a stack and NOT have it magnetically link to whatever asset is before or after it in the horizontal relationship, you just have to tap the "P" key to work in "position" mode. And you can move the asset around like you could in Legacy. So you can work in Position or Magnetic as you like. Magnetic is simply the default mode, because in the stack oriented approach, it makes a whole lot more sense than pure position.

It's honestly different thinking on a pretty fundamental level, and until you have enough experience to expect it, it's annoying. After you do, it becomes as natural and expected as the old system.

That's some of the basics in a nutshell. Learning the program on a reasonably thorough level typically takes the best part of a year of reasonably constant operation.

Hope that helps.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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randall wurster
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 15, 2012 at 8:03:59 pm

"In legacy, we had to constantly guard against inadvertent destructive actions like putting a long music cut on an audio track and failing to notice that we'd left a SFX down the timeline. If you did, the new import could easily KILL the SFX leaving no trace of it's prior existence. So it was easy to literally destroy elements in other parts of your timeline , precisely because the program couldn't know any better."

Is that really a concern for you? I don't believe it. In over a decade of editing on FCP or similar NLEs I have never made this mistake, nor feared making it. Keep track of your tracks. It's your job as an editor.

I've now taken two stabs at using FCPX and seeing if it could ever be helpful in my workflow. I downloaded a trial at home recently and gave it a go. I loathed it more than the first time.

The conclusion I came to is that it spends too much time trying to police stupidity...no offense to those that like it. To me, all of its features are geared towards making life easier for non-editors who don't understand best practices and who don't implement them.

Apple doesn't care about editors who make a living off of this craft. The ad airing now where they have an Apple Genius help a passenger on a flight do an emergency video edit pretty much says it all. They want everyone to be able to edit. As a professional video editor who was educated and trained in this field, we should probably all be offended that they think so little of our profession.

Still, I could care less about that if it still had value in my workflow. I've tried twice now to adapt and change to FCPX. I really like to think I am able to learn and adapt to new programs and NLEs. I've used Avid, FCP and Premiere. FCPX just seems worthless to me. It's iMovie Pro. Except iMovie might even suck less.

But I would love to hear/see others that feel differently. I can't use FCP7 forever and it's going to be time to move on soon (maybe it's past). I, honestly, would love to hear a differing opinion and see how FCPX is working in professional (or honestly, even prosumer) environments.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 15, 2012 at 8:14:21 pm

[randall wurster] "But I would love to hear/see others that feel differently. I can't use FCP7 forever and it's going to be time to move on soon (maybe it's past). I, honestly, would love to hear a differing opinion and see how FCPX is working in professional (or honestly, even prosumer) environments. But I need concrete stuff, not some standard Apple apologists stuff justifying the program's shortcomings. Unless someone can convince me otherwise, it's simple to me: FCPX isn't different, it's just worse."

Search my posts. There are quite a few other "pro's" here as well who use X. But honestly, if you can't let go of traditional tracks, then X probably isn't for you.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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randall wurster
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 15, 2012 at 8:28:59 pm

Search my posts. There are quite a few other "pro's" here as well who use X. But honestly, if you can't let go of traditional tracks, then X probably isn't for you.

Willdo re: the search. Again, this is from two trial experiences from FCPX, so I continue to hope I'm wrong. But at the same time, I'll continue to make my opinions on my experiences with FCPX rather clear.

I don't think trackless editing as seen in FCPX is actually new.

The standard Movie maker, iMovie, whatever free editing app is on your system, etc. all feature what amounts to "trackless" editing because its geared towards the average user that the creator of said software deemed incapable of dealing with a track system.

Again, purely my opinion, but "trackless" editing is just watered-down editing. It's been around for a while, and FCPX repackaged it as something revolutionary because it fit into the iMovie crowd they were targeting.

Now, it might so happen that it has use for specific pro or prosumer workflows (music videos, wedding videographer, and maybe, maybe some documentary stuff spring to mind).

Bottom line, if you edit with the keyboard, if you know all your shortcuts, if you know your footage inside and out, you don't need the gimmick that is the magnetic timeline. Crap like that just slows you down.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 15, 2012 at 9:43:17 pm

[randall wurster] "The standard Movie maker, iMovie, whatever free editing app is on your system, etc. all feature what amounts to "trackless" editing because its geared towards the average user that the creator of said software deemed incapable of dealing with a track system.

Incapable? lol. How about an editor who doesn't want to waste time "patching" tracks like a 1920's telephone operator? I like trackless editing because I generally have 16-24 "tracks" of audio cut in at any given time. It's nice to have the software figure out where it'll fit, and organize it for me. I can thenconcentrate on cutting and fine tune the organization later if i want to. Now, if that doesn't suit your workflow, cool. But I assure you, I'm quite capable of "dealing with" tracks. I just happen to like the fact that I can finally stop dealing with them. :-)

[randall wurster] Again, purely my opinion, but "trackless" editing is just watered-down editing. It's been around for a while, and FCPX repackaged it as something revolutionary because it fit into the iMovie crowd they were targeting.

iMovie crowd? Seriously? Other than some underlying data structure features, superficial interface similarities, and some (admittedly unfortunate) effect names, iMovie and FCP X have very little in common, And honestly, what's wrong with iMovie? Not enough buttons for ya? ;-)

[randall wurster] Now, it might so happen that it has use for specific pro or prosumer workflows (music videos, wedding videographer, and maybe, maybe some documentary stuff spring to mind).

Why do you feel that way? Just because you don't like FCP X? It seems you've made up your mind that it sucks, which is fine. But do you really need to justify that decision by subtly denigrating people who aren't necessarily working on whatever it is you work on - which for some reason you feel is more "professional" than that?

By the way... are you actually familiar with music video editing? Have ya seen a music video lately? That sh*t is hardly amateur hour. Just sayin'.

[randall wurster] Bottom line, if you edit with the keyboard, if you know all your shortcuts, if you know your footage inside and out, you don't need the gimmick that is the magnetic timeline. Crap like that just slows you down.
"


Well, speaking for myself, I know and do all the above and, uh... no it doesn't.

**Actually, to be fair, it does slow you down 'til you wrap your head around it. After that it speeds you up. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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randall wurster
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 16, 2012 at 12:48:17 pm

Where did I denigrate or say that any of those industries were not pro?

In fact, I rather explicitly said those were pro applications of the product in my post.

And no, what I work on isn't more "professional" than any of that.

And I also never implied that FCPX users were incapable of dealing with tracks, only that the writers of the software wrote it for a target audience that was.

If a capable editor happens to enjoy the trackless workflow, as in your case, I'd guess that this is a happy coincidence and not Apple's intentions. Every bit of evidence of where Apple is headed in terms of production suggests this to be the case.

I also said I hadn't made up my mind on FCPX, which is why I was here. I said these were my feelings after cutting two projects on it. There's really no need to put words in my mouth, I've said enough as it is.

iMovie and FCPX share the same verbiage, some features, similar workflow, similar interface and - and this is the arguable point - the same basic principle: to hide an awful lot of control from the user with the assumption that the program knows better. If you have found a way around that, or not found that to be the case, then more power to you. Obviously the power behind FCPX trumps the outdated FCP7 and I truly wish it could work in my workflow. There are certain projects where maybe it could, but others where it would be hopeless.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 16, 2012 at 5:45:59 pm

[randall wurster] ... "And I also never implied that FCPX users were incapable of dealing with tracks, only that the writers of the software wrote it for a target audience that was.

...

I also said I hadn't made up my mind on FCPX, which is why I was here. I said these were my feelings after cutting two projects on it. There's really no need to put words in my mouth, I've said enough as it is."



Fair enough... apologies if I seemed to be putting words in your mouth. It just struck me as another "FCPX is just a fancy iMovie and is not a real pro app" post. There's a lot of that going around. ;-)

I guess I just disagree with your assertion in the previous post that " ...its geared towards the average user that the creator of said software deemed incapable of dealing with a track system." And again here saying "..to hide an awful lot of control from the user with the assumption that the program knows better." Now, I suppose if we're splitting hairs that could be true, but in the same way that OS X "hides" it's Unix underpinnings. It's there if you want it and know what to do with it, but you don't need to use it if you don't want to.

In my opinion, the idea of FCPX was to make an app that, setting aside the new interface etc., Would work for people who didn't need all the bells and whistles and for people who do. I think they've succeeded. And I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Apple's intentions toward the "pro" market. FCPX isn't perfect, and it isn't done. It's really a 1.0 release and, despite a pile of missing and not yet implemented features, works really well. They've publicly stated that they have a 10 year plan for the app, it's only going to get better. There will be at least one more new Mac Pro. After that, who knows.

IMHO, with the advent of thunderbolt etc, the need for a giant tower is coming to an end. That may be why Apple is holding off on the next Mac Pro, waiting for T Bolt to migrate to fiber rather than copper... I dunno... I just think we're in a computing transition, not at the end of the line.

Anyway, didn't mean to single you out, there's a lot of irrational, and in my opinion incorrect, hate for FCPX, so sorry if I jumped to conclusions. Also, you said "Obviously the power behind FCPX trumps the outdated FCP7 and I truly wish it could work in my workflow. There are certain projects where maybe it could, but others where it would be hopeless." What type of thing do you think it would be hopeless on? Honestly curious. :-)

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~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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randall wurster
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 16, 2012 at 6:09:30 pm

Fair enough... apologies if I seemed to be putting words in your mouth. It just struck me as another "FCPX is just a fancy iMovie and is not a real pro app" post. There's a lot of that going around. ;-)

Understood - granted, I can see why you'd come to that conclusion reading some of my posts so far. And I apologize if my post seemed to insult other areas of the pro editing world. I wouldn't want to do that - especially given the wide variety of jobs we get up here in my area. I just wanted to make it clear that my opinion on FCPX is not cemented yet, and that these were my gut reactions to using the program in a limited fashion.

In my opinion, the idea of FCPX was to make an app that, setting aside the new interface etc., Would work for people who didn't need all the bells and whistles and for people who do. I think they've succeeded. And I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Apple's intentions toward the "pro" market.

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this point - time might tell, but I have way less faith in them than several years ago.

What type of thing do you think it would be hopeless on? Honestly curious. :-)

We do a lot of industrials (technical training) and then scenario based compliance training (typical two camera shoots, occasionally three).

For the latter, while multicam in FCPX actually looks pretty promising, the editing just looks too cumbersome to me. I use timecode to sync, so I don't need the nice sync features that come with FCPX. I don't need magnetic timelines for it, I'm not grouping pieces together and moving them around in bulk, and if I am, simple in & outs will do. I can do L & J cuts far simpler in FCP7 than in FCPX, despite being advertised as otherwise, I don't understand what people felt was so difficult about it in FCP7. I don't like the video being so literally attached to the audio as it is in FCPX. Among other things that slowly drove me nuts in my FCPX trial.

For the industrials, there's two problems: one we have twenty to thirty sequences per project, that we're working on, grabbing pieces between and exporting at the same time. From what I experienced, that'd a nuisance - and prohibitive - in FCPX. Also, for technical training like this, the most important thing is the continuity of the cuts. The traditional viewer-canvas in FCP7 let's me do that.

Again, I can see FCPX being awfully useful in several implementations, and I was a little harsh in dismissing it so rashly. I still, however, would find their change in verbiage, interace, & workflow a nuisance - and a step down from FCP7.


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Steve Connor
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Aug 15, 2012 at 8:16:06 pm

[randall wurster] " I, honestly, would love to hear a differing opinion and see how FCPX is working in professional (or honestly, even prosumer) environments."

Just read back on here and you'll see how some of us are using FCPX successfully in our working environments, search for other FCPX forums and you'll see plenty of people happily using it.

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Joseph Owens
Re: Did anyone lose their job after FCPX mistake ?
on Jul 31, 2012 at 2:57:28 pm

[Anders Haavie] " it is democratizising the tool... "

Wrong word. Should be "popularizing".

jPo

"Learned my lesson" and confining responses to twits.... or is that tweets... or???? kids these daze.

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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