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OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!

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Neil Goodman
OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 4, 2012 at 9:07:24 pm

So i just picked up one of those 1tb Lacie Littlebig Disk Thunderbolt drives for a project i have coming up where ill be working in two different bays, both with a similar almost identical setup. Ones my home office and the other the director's studio.

Heres the first issue I've ran into.

I have the i7 iMac with Dual Thunderbolts ports. Prior to getting the littlebigdisk i was using both ports, one to a Intensity extreme box from Blackmagic, the other port is hooked up to Asus 24 inch monitor display via a generic MiniDisplay to HDMI converter. Worked just as it should. Pleased as punch

Now the first thing i tried to do when i got the LBD, is daisy chain the Asus monitor from it using the same generic mini display to hdmi adaptor, leaving the Intensity Extreme on its own TB port. Should be cool right?. Nope, while the monitor does display an image, its like someone put one of those "solar negative" type filters on it. The disk still reads fast, 160ish write/180ish read but obviously i can't use the monitor this way.

Now when i tired to give the monitor its own TB port and daisy chain the Intensity Extrme to the LBG, this works as expected, except i lose performance on the disk. Writes drop to 110ish and reads drop to 150ish. Im hoping i can avoid this slow down cuz I'm doing multi clips in Media Composer and every bit of juice helps.

Is it the generic adaptor maybe? I bought this thing before Thunderbolt was on the market for an old laptop. Is it the Lacie? Does the external monitor have to be actual TB to work off a chain?

With hopes i purchased a more modern display adaptor from mono price, that says thunderbolt support. I just think its weird my current adaptor works straight to the IAMC but not from the Lacie.

Any insight or help is appreciated. I know this isn't the right forum, but you guys know your stuff and this place is the most helpful place on the net right now. Searching google came up with nada.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Michael Phillips
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 4, 2012 at 11:26:59 pm

Not that I have definate examples or documentation that I can point you to, sharing bandwidth on Thunderbolt can quickly reduce performance on devices as I believe it is only a x4 speed.

Michael

Michael Phillips


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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 4, 2012 at 11:53:04 pm

Thanks mike that's why I wanted to daisy chain the monitor instead of the I/o box.I figure the monitor uses less bandwidth and speed tests prove that, but the image is compromised.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 1:11:55 am

Is the Asus for GUI or video?

You are using thunderbolt for displayport, so you can't daisy chain from it.

A thunderbolt monitor would allow daisy chaining, and the monitor typically has to be the first device in the chain.

Supposedly, Asus has shown a TBolt monitor.

What if you switch the disk and the Blackmagic device?


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Bret Williams
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 3:53:58 am

I'm daisy chaining my cheap Acer monitor off my Pegasus using a Mdp to dvi adapter whilst the second port is hooked up to my extreme. I got the cable on amazon for $10 or something.


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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 5:35:51 am

[Bret Williams] "I'm daisy chaining my cheap Acer monitor off my Pegasus using a Mdp to dvi adapter whilst the second port is hooked up to my extreme. I got the cable on amazon for $10 or something.

"



thats why I'm thinking this should just work with the mini display to HDMI cable i have. Its should be the same thing as your doing. Im hoping except minus the DVI, the new adapter i ordered hopefully will work as it said thunderbolt support, while came out way before TB was around. So we'll see.Till then I'm taking a wee performance hit by having the extreme end of chain off the LAcie LBD.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 5:33:25 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Is the Asus for GUI or video?

You are using thunderbolt for displayport, so you can't daisy chain from it.

A thunderbolt monitor would allow daisy chaining, and the monitor typically has to be the first device in the chain.

Supposedly, Asus has shown a TBolt monitor.

What if you switch the disk and the Blackmagic device?
"


This is just for GUI and my second monitor. I have a client screen for full screen. Im not trying to daisy chain from the monitor. The Monitor is the last in the chain, or would be if it worked, but my image is distorted.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Erik Lindahl
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 11:29:19 am

Have you tried with a different mini display port > HDMI adaptor? I know when the standard came out one could run into issues with these. It might even be worth trying mini display port > VGA if your screen allows it. I think these adapters always are "active" which is a good thing.


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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 3:47:09 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Have you tried with a different mini display port > HDMI adaptor? I know when the standard came out one could run into issues with these. It might even be worth trying mini display port > VGA if your screen allows it. I think these adapters always are "active" which is a good thing.
"



Got a new one ordered from monoprice. If that doesnt work, ill go with the minidp to DVI

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 12:09:12 pm

[Neil Goodman] "This is just for GUI and my second monitor. I have a client screen for full screen. Im not trying to daisy chain from the monitor. The Monitor is the last in the chain, or would be if it worked, but my image is distorted."

Ok. I guess I was thrown as you're using hdmi for it. Maybe try a dvi converter?

Can you switch the LaCie and blackmagic or does the blackmagic not have pass through?


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olof ekbergh
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 12:47:40 pm

I have no problems using an older Mini Displayport Apple monitor on the same TB port as a LaCie TB Raid and a Matrox MX02 on the other TB port.

The first time I did this it did not work with the MX02 and Raid on the same TB port. It was a little tricky to get it to work, I thought I had a bad cable for a while. It took a few restarts but now it works fine. This reminds me a bit of the days of SCSI when certain devises did not like others and it was very picky with cables and positions in the chain as well as the ID numbers.

I have actually stopped using the second "bin" monitor now. I got a neck ache from too much real estate and I find the 27" screen to be all I need in fcpx. I do all my monitoring on a HD SDI monitor on the left side of the IMac and there is a client plasma screen above my iMac. I often do my initial rough edits w/o the external monitors on, this seems very comfortable, but as I refine the edits and grade the HD SDI monitor is a must. And the HDMI is also nice to monitor even w/o a client as you review the project.

My MP setup is very similar with a 30" single monitor and SDI and HDMI monitors as well.

Olof Ekbergh


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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 3:48:50 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Ok. I guess I was thrown as you're using hdmi for it. Maybe try a dvi converter?

Can you switch the LaCie and blackmagic or does the blackmagic not have pass through?"



The black-magic unfortunately doesnt have pass through. The worst thing is i get a picture. Its just distorted and the wrong color.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Bret Williams
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 6, 2012 at 2:17:20 am

Make sure that the cable is in right. I have put TB cables in wrong with no effort on an iMac. They slide right in. Not on my Pegasus though.


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Daniel Frome
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 2:39:37 pm

Hey Neil --

Maybe it's your adapter. I don't have the LBD, but I have a pegasus raid, and I daisy my secondary monitor off it. I use the apple displayport->DVI converter, which is directly plugged into the 2nd thunderbolt port on the back of the pegasus RAID and it works like a charm without any slowdown.

Your setup sounds identical except for the older generic adapter.


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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 3:45:22 pm

[Daniel Frome] "Hey Neil --

Maybe it's your adapter. I don't have the LBD, but I have a pegasus raid, and I daisy my secondary monitor off it. I use the apple displayport->DVI converter, which is directly plugged into the 2nd thunderbolt port on the back of the pegasus RAID and it works like a charm without any slowdown.

Your setup sounds identical except for the older generic adapter.
"



Cool, yea im basically looking for people who it works for so i know its possible. So far two of you are having success with a minidp to dvi.. if the new minidp to HDMI converter which claims it supports thunderbolt doesnt work, ill order a minidp to DVI.

i think its strange that this old adapter works plugged straight into the Imac, but not off the Lacie.

Also does anyone have any insight as to why DVI might work but not HDMI?

Thank for the help everyone!

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Daniel Frome
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 5, 2012 at 4:05:25 pm

Apple's dp-to-HDMI also works daisy chained off my pegasus. I use it once in a while when I want to hook the computer up to the TV.


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Bret Williams
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 6, 2012 at 2:19:41 am

I'm putting money on the LaCie being the problem.


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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 6, 2012 at 3:17:27 am

Why do you say that? It's advertised to do exactly this, and should have the same passthroughv as a Pegasus

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Bret Williams
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 6, 2012 at 1:43:46 pm

Just what it sounds like because your cable works on your iMac, and not your LaCie. And because the 3 people that haven't had a problem are using Pegasus, not LaCie. That's all the data I have to work with. :)


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Walter Soyka
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 6, 2012 at 3:19:33 pm

Apple's miniDP to HDMI adapters on 2011 Macs apparently run in YUV mode instead of RGB. Perhaps the LaCie is somehow interfering with the signal and not allowing the monitor to guess the correct color model.

Can you change from RGB to YUV somewhere on the monitor's settings, or perhaps connect via DVI (which is always RGB) or DisplayPort?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 6, 2012 at 5:31:03 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Apple's miniDP to HDMI adapters on 2011 Macs apparently run in YUV mode instead of RGB. Perhaps the LaCie is somehow interfering with the signal and not allowing the monitor to guess the correct color model.

Can you change from RGB to YUV somewhere on the monitor's settings, or perhaps connect via DVI (which is always RGB) or DisplayPort?
"


Its a pretty basic Asus monitor, but ill see if i can switch that. That is sounding like the most sense why it isnt working right now.

Also if all else fail the minidp to dvi is the way to go.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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gary adcock
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 6, 2012 at 8:29:19 pm

[Neil Goodman] "Now the first thing i tried to do when i got the LBD, is daisy chain the Asus monitor from it using the same generic mini display to hdmi adaptor, leaving the Intensity Extreme on its own TB port. Should be cool right?. Nope, while the monitor does display an image, its like someone put one of those "solar negative" type filters on it."

Thats because you are using a video device that is controling your video output.

Try setting the Monitor to see the video signal as YPrPb video rather than Display RGB. I have this issue all the time with projectors ( many of which will NOT allow the change)

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640

follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 6, 2012 at 8:35:05 pm

[gary adcock] "Thats because you are using a video device that is controling your video output.

Try setting the Monitor to see the video signal as YPrPb video rather than Display RGB. I have this issue all the time with projectors ( many of which will NOT allow the change)
"



sweet thanks. Ill try to mess with the settings today. If not seems like minidp to DVI will do the trick and is only a few bucks.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Neil Goodman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jul 9, 2012 at 7:04:49 pm

If anyone cares. It was the old generic minidp to hdmi adapter that was the culprit. Got a new adaptor from mono price.com and it worked just as it should, coming off of the lacie!

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Chris Love
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Oct 17, 2012 at 1:46:14 am

I care! Just plugged in my Lacie drive, ASUS monitor and cheap adapter to find the same problem. Stumbled on your post and just ordered a new adapter from Monoprice. If this works, you just saved me a lot of headache!


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Chris Love
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Nov 5, 2012 at 3:43:39 pm

Update: even though the Lacie tech help people said "this only supports Thunderbolt-compatible displays. You can't do what you're trying to do," the Monoprice adapter works great. The one I got is called the Monoprice Mini DisplayPort | Thunderbolt® to HDMI® Adapter w/ Audio Support and was $6.65 on monoprice.com (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2)


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Barbara Burst
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Jan 20, 2013 at 2:33:27 am

While troubleshooting, found this thread... just to add some...

I have a MacBook Pro I've been succesfully daisychaining >Lacie Tbolt 4G>miniDP/DP adaptor>NEC Multisync 27" monitor. It worked like a dream since I bought it a couple of months ago. Suddenly yesterday it did not work hooked up through the drive, but did work if I took the drive out of the chain and hooked directly from the MacBook via adaptor to monitor (maybe it is Lacie that's a bug in the works here). As I was checking to see if I could do anything in setups with RGB v YUV, I also played around with restarting and switching the cables on the deck ports. I couldn't change any setups, but somehow unplugging/restarts got things up and running again.


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Tyler Casselman
Re: OT: Thunderbolt and Displays Question - Need Assistance/Advice Please!
on Nov 6, 2012 at 10:17:35 pm

FWIW, I have a samsung monitor (relatively new) connected to my MBP via HDMI -> DVI cable connected with a DVI -> Thunderbold/MiniDisplay adapter (apple brand) daisy chained to a laCie 2big 4TB thunderbolt drive. I am seeing the same symptoms as the OP.


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