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Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)

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Buddy Couch
Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:28:38 pm

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/06/more-on-apples-direction-for-fina...


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Brian Nichols
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:39:46 pm

Well Apple shouldn't have released this turd until it had the same functionality as the previous version with the ability to at least convert old projects to the new version and the ability to keep both versions open if necessary during this "transition".


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Jamie Franklin
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:40:00 pm

From what we have seen and read from users so far, the ecosystem and cross platforming missing is just a drop in the bucket to what's missing, dropped, gone...

Walter's podcast is a great summation of not just changes but as they repeatedly say "you flat out can't do it"...

Not good. And it appears a lot has been abandoned....


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Andrew Corneles
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:45:33 pm

I haven't heard anything officially from apple, this article cherry picks a bunch of the "positive" aspects.

Still naysaying.

I guess we'll all just have to agree to disagree- some of us have been
waiting patiently to use all of our expensive processors, in the meantime
investing heavily in monitoring solutions and capture devices that are
currently worthless to FCPX.

I guess I just expected more, seeing as how we're still technically
working with Final Cut 4, and people are defending one of the most wealthy
corporations' intentions, and that we should WAIT to see what they do, that
they're "doing their best" etc.

Avid and PP have less capital, and yet have made much larger strides
in tech, FASTER, while keeping the PRO aspects in tact.

Lots of us have been WAITING for 4-5 years for a serious rewrite.

I (we) can't just sit by and hope that apple decides to throw us a bone -
seeing as how they've cut support and sales for most of their other
pro apps, one by one.

The writing seems to be pretty well plastered to the wall.

Repackaging iMovie just doesn't really sit well with me, and obviously lots of other pro's.


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:55:05 pm

All I saw in that article was a bunch of boiler plate from what sounds like an Apple PR that has appeared in several other 'articles'.
I saw nothing that indicates apple cares about those that have spent big bucks buying their products in the past.
Nor did I see any willingness to servicing those commitments.

I did see a lot of hype trying to gin up sales without a lot of substance to back it up.

Buddy, I see you signed up 'coincidentally' on the same day as the release. Every one of your posts all read like you're a paid shill for apple.
Do you work for apple, or some affiliate marketing company?
FYI that is a rhetorical question...

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:03:46 pm

Actually I have been an avid reader of creative cow for some time. I never really wanted to post or be active in the forum community. I spent most of my time reading the AE forums. I enjoy compositing much more than editing.

I do not work for apple, I am just trying to open your eyes a tad bit, so that you can see the light. I know its hard to trust someone over the internet, but I can assure you that my intentions are sincere. I am not associated with Apple what so ever.

What I do know is that you cannot judge a book by its cover. People haven't even had time to read the manual, much less dig into the program. I understand that its missing some very important components for which you guys rely on. I actually like the idea of being able to depend on my old faithful program while I learn a new software. As I said before, taking on new projects to cut in X would be foolish even if Final Cut X had addressed all of your issues. It is completely different and therefore will take time to get acclimated too a new work flow.


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Chris Conlee
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:10:42 pm

Buddy, since you're a compositor and not an editor, how would you feel about AE if they removed the ability to key green, say? That's a pretty important feature that you'd find hard to live without, I imagine. Same thing here. Key features gone. No promise or even hint of when or if they might be back.

Chris


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:20:04 pm

I agree with you and wouldn't be to happy, BUT if they had just rewritten it from the ground up and left it out then thats a different story. Things get complex when you rewrite for 64 bit, as in your plugins are done until a rewrite can also be processed.

I would patiently wait and use my old version until they fixed it. People are so impatient these days. No wonder we have so much road rage and such going on. The world still takes 365 days to circle the earth, yet you would think someone changed it to 50.

Buddy


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:21:35 pm

We keep hearing this re-written from the ground up stuff, but I've got to say I'm not seeing re-written from the ground up, I'm seeing a rework of iMovie with added features. This would be an excellent upgrade for iMovie, which is basically what it is.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Jamie Franklin
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:24:26 pm

[Buddy Couch] "What I do know is that you cannot judge a book by its cover"

We keep hearing this...but it's not what is happening. Final Cut Pro is gone....Color, gone. Soundtrack Pro, gone...and all of FCS now is easier to crossplatform with Avid and Adobe than X...cosmic irony...

RIP FCP

I migrated over to Final Cut for the Color workflow. Now that Davinci is available at an affordable price, I'll be on the bandwagon and jump back to PPro.

Not even R3D support...wow

We shouldn't have to sit around waiting for features to be added that were standard in the last platform...What Apple did was madness...


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Matt Callac
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:17:57 pm

[Scott Sheriff] "
Buddy, I see you signed up 'coincidentally' on the same day as the release. Every one of your posts all read like you're a paid shill for apple.
Do you work for apple, or some affiliate marketing company?
FYI that is a rhetorical question.."


hahahah
Scott, I love that you're looking at how long poeople have been active members everytime they sound like a fanboy. It is oddly coincidental.

-mattyc


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:41:20 pm

Matt,
Read my response :). I have been reading the forums here for about 2 years. Do not mistake me for a fanboi or whatever you like to call someone hopelessly devoted to something.

I am upset with a few things in Final Cut X as well. I am neutral in my views, and will withhold my judgement for 6 months or so. X does what I need it too now so I am not terribly concerned from an editing standpoint.


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Matt Callac
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:04:09 pm

[Buddy Couch] "Matt,
Read my response :). I have been reading the forums here for about 2 years. Do not mistake me for a fanboi or whatever you like to call someone hopelessly devoted to something.

I am upset with a few things in Final Cut X as well. I am neutral in my views, and will withhold my judgement for 6 months or so. X does what I need it too now so I am not terribly concerned from an editing standpoint."


Buddy, I just read your original response. I wasn't trying to call you a fanboy. I was more making a comment on how Scott's been looking at how long people have been active poster's for and noticing that a lot of accounts were started on the day the product was launched.

I totally agree with your views. I think judgement needs to be with held and i've been digging into the program as well as reading the manual and other available resources. Overall I like where this app is headed.

-mattyc


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:20:54 pm

[Matt Callac] "hahahah
Scott, I love that you're looking at how long poeople have been active members everytime they sound like a fanboy. It is oddly coincidental."


I look at the profiles of a lot of the names of people that post here. It is good to get a frame of reference as to how much experience they have, and in what areas.
It seems odd to me to have been on here for quite a while, and never seeing a post from some of these names. And when see they signed up on the same day as the X release and you bust them on it, they all claim to be 'lurkers'. They smell like trolls to me.
There is plenty of fanboi action on here from names a I see on a regular basis.
But it is hard to believe someone could be a working professional for any length of time and not find something in at least one of the COW forums worth posting about in the last year or two.
Or to look at it another way, if you're so disinterested in the goings on in the media world that you can't be bothered to chime in until X comes along, I can't really take your opinion seriously.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Matt Callac
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:30:38 pm

[Scott Sheriff] "It seems odd to me to have been on here for quite a while, and never seeing a post from some of these names. And when see they signed up on the same day as the X release and you bust them on it, they all claim to be 'lurkers'."

I can totally understand lurking. I lurked for 3 years on a skatboarding online forum before I actually posted in it. A lot of message boards even show how many "guests" are viewing topics at any given time. At the cow we don't really have that. I've been a member here since 2004 i think, and I don't have that many posts, b/c I lurk way more than I post.

-mattyc


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:14:36 pm

[Matt Callac] "I can totally understand lurking. I lurked for 3 years on a skatboarding online forum before I actually posted in it. A lot of message boards even show how many "guests" are viewing topics at any given time. At the cow we don't really have that. I've been a member here since 2004 i think, and I don't have that many posts, b/c I lurk way more than I post."

I lurked here for about a year until we got fiber and could get off dial up. I also continued to lurk a while after I signed up, just to get the vibe.
I don't know how many posts you have, but I do recognize your name when I see it. So obviously you post something once in a while.

I'm sure you saw the post from Melanie Brands, bust on Walter and Richard.
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/3920
Now there is a good reason to lurk for a while before you post. She just didn't disagree, she trashed them.
Now like all people in a creative business, we don't always see eye to eye. But agree or disagree there are some folks here that deserve respect because they put a lot of time in, and have a proven background. Those two guys fit in that category, and their opinion carries a lot more weight than someone that just showed up today.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:56:31 pm

Interesting you guys use the term professional a lot. Professionals I know do not switch software packages in the middle of projects. I am not pointing you out in particular, but quite a few on here have obviously done so.

It certainly makes me not take their opinion seriously. As far as not posting, I read mostly. Its where you learn the most you know? Listening and reading. To be honest the only reason I signed up to post here was the simple fact FCP X is completely new. There are no existing forums to use the search function on. I was forced to inquire rather than read existing information.

There you go, now you know why my account was created on release day.


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 11:33:27 pm

[Buddy Couch] "Interesting you guys use the term professional a lot. Professionals I know do not switch software packages in the middle of projects. I am not pointing you out in particular, but quite a few on here have obviously done so.

It certainly makes me not take their opinion seriously. As far as not posting, I read mostly. Its where you learn the most you know? Listening and reading. To be honest the only reason I signed up to post here was the simple fact FCP X is completely new. There are no existing forums to use the search function on. I was forced to inquire rather than read existing information.

There you go, now you know why my account was created on release day."


Fair enough.

Do professionals change software in the middle of a job? Generally no, at least not on their main working system. Most will run it for a while on a second system until a few updates have come out, and it has proven stable.
There are over a million FCP licenses out there. If even a tenth are working professionals of some type, that would be a large population group. Too large not to expect a few of them to be knuckleheads.
I see posts all the time in the FCP forum that make me wonder how the poster is able to get paying gigs. And yet they do...

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:55:53 pm

nah man - that's just a couple of apple mouthpieces doing some PR firefighting - Apple just doesn't want things messy is all.
FCP isn't coming back and neither are its features - look at Quicktime X - they said that would be built up from a ground state and that all the more advanced features would be re-introduced - but none of that ever happened.

FCP is gone.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:03:17 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "FCP is gone"

I just love your posts - even when I disagree with you, which in this case I fear is not a great deal!

And there was you such a big fan before it was ever released - I really feel for you, genuinely!

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:24:02 pm

Ha! yes, rather, I did hope against hope - and hey, sure say hello to dan for me wha?

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:49:21 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "say hello to dan"

Dan?

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:09:37 pm

oops - wrong simon, thought you knew dan cullen..

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:15:45 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "oops - wrong simon, thought you knew dan cullen.."

Oh but I do - I didn't know who you meant. Great guy, Dan, though I haven't worked with him for about 12 months. Say hi from me if you see him first!

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:11:16 pm

Pessimistic
adjective
a pessimistic outlook on life: gloomy, negative, defeatist, downbeat, cynical, bleak, fatalistic, dark, black, despairing, despondent, depressed, hopeless; suspicious, distrustful, doubting. ANTONYMS optimistic.


Life is good and in a couple of months Final Cut Pro X will be just fine (even for the PROS!). As I said before Final Cut Pro 7 didn't quit working yesterday did it? I could see all of this anger being well placed if it did.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:34:46 pm

life is fine sir, and I am an optimist by nature.

irritated:
past participle, past tense of ir·ri·tate (Verb)
1. Make (someone) annoyed, impatient, or angry.

shocked:
a sudden or violent disturbance of the mind, emotions, or sensibilities:
The burglary was a shock to her sense of security.

Really just look at the app, take a good long look, then say, in shocked and somewhat deeply irritated tones - "FCP is not coming back".

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:45:22 pm

overreact
verb
before you overreact, let's just calmly discuss this: react disproportionately, act irrationally, lose one's sense of proportion, blow something up out of all proportion, make a mountain out of a molehill.

:) I couldn't resist.

Please jump from the Apple Train onto the Avid wagon if you must. Just make sure when your at the train station in 3 months that you haven't used up all your money on the wagon tickets.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:05:43 pm

Buddy man, I'm not over reacting - this is a joke - i can now sit on an imac and prep a CNN ireport on my secondary story line while my files are default saved to my home folder.

this app is not FCP. It just isn't. Dropping the source viewer isn't clever, closing the application off wasn't a blinding insight, refusing to license OMF wasn't in our interest, making a glitzy GUI that's palpably, after a quick throwabout on a mates install, slower and less reactive than FCP6 on a three year old machine is just.. look - this isn't FCP - this application is not FCP.

Having made a prosumer application, much as quicktime X is a prosumer software solution, there is no reasonable weight to the notion that they are going to reverse and re-introduce the necessary complexity of a professional application. FCP was complicated. Professional software is complicated, it has to meet many advanced needs and therefore must expose functionality - this application is none of those things - it is a prosumer application - if they had simply flagged up end of lifed FCP and announced VideoGaragebandExtreme I could bear it a little better.

Say it with me now baby - FCP is gone, gone, gone.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:29:20 pm

Why would anyone change to a software that they didn't know in mid cycle of a high pressure project? I cannot understand this.

Before my companies would take anything mainstream, it would be tested by a select few, only then would it be seriously considered as a mainstay. If you have high pressure projects like the one you mentioned, I highly suggest you revert back to FCP7 to get it done. As I said in a previous thread, even if Final Cut X had all of the things you guys wanted right now. You would be in over your head trying to complete a professional project 35 hours after a brand new software package was installed. This was not FCP7.5, apple made this clear up front. You could see from the screen shots that it didn't look anything like FCP7 or previous versions.

I respect your views and feel your pain, yet I have to question your thought process attempting to do a project this fast on a ver 1.0 software that was just rebuilt from the ground up. I mean no disrespect to you what so ever.

Apple should have been more clear that this wasn't going to be something you could just install and use current knowledge to edit. This is for sure.

Buddy C


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:09:52 pm

hahaha - no bud - that was hypothetical. I'm not buying her, I'll have to eventually, to sort of see the horror. but it is not installed. I go back to the post house to edit on FCP7 tomorrow.

i'd maybe say - well, see in two years, maybe check back then, but there are problems - the level of shock with what apple has done will I think mean that many post facilities will scramble out because FCP is probably really not coming back as they understand it. And so they need to move pretty fast. The last FCP release is end of life. There is no indication FCP is coming back, Apple have built something completely different for a different market.

so then we have a *competitive* marketplace that has PPRo run by a flash obsessed company, where you can't pop a clip up onto V2 frame accurately currently, or paste any specific clip properties, or Avid, who are as mercurial as they have always been, and well.. that's that.
The thing is that FCP was comfortably swimming to a centre point as a best in class application for the broadest use cases, but apple just nuked that app and declared a new interest based on their wider consumer concerns.

Apple really aren't coming back. That application they released really is that application and its not intended for us. It is palpably a prosumer app, that is what they wanted it to be, and that is what it is, to put back what we need would necessitate a degree of visual and conceptual complexity that apple have never envisioned for this editing application. It is what it is - FCP is gone.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:37:22 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Buddy man, I'm not over reacting - this is a joke - i can now sit on an imac and prep a CNN ireport on my secondary story line while my files are default saved to my home folder. "

Priceless!!!!!!!!

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:18:52 pm

sure well, as the man says, if you can't laugh...

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Matt Callac
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:14:55 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Quicktime X - they said that would be built up from a ground state and that all the more advanced features would be re-introduced - but none of that ever happened."

They told you what they could at the time. Which is that more advanced features would be introduced in quicktimeX. Those more advanced features are very likely the AV foundation that's at the heart of Lion. Quicktime is pretty much dead as you use to know it and is replaced (in lion) with AV Foundation.

-mattyc


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:58:22 pm

AV Foundation is in Snow Leopard too. It's just not open for third parties so no one knows how complete it is.


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Matt Callac
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:21:23 pm

[Michael Aranyshev] "AV Foundation is in Snow Leopard too. It's just not open for third parties so no one knows how complete it is."

I know it's technically in snowleapord as well. I could be wrong about this...but I thought I'd read that snow leopard was still heavily reliant on quicktime, and it wouldn't be gone as we know it till Lion.

-mattyc


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Herb Sevush
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:12:44 pm

Everything you need to know about the value of that article can be found here -

What's really rubbing users the wrong way, however, is Apple's decision to discontinue its mid-range Final Cut Express video editing software.

Yeah, thats what's pissing us off.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:16:18 pm

Hysterically funny. Thanks for sharing!!!!!!!

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:55:17 pm

Exactly, the idea that anybody cares one way or another about Final Cut Express proves this article is a bogus, spin-controlled piece of propaganda.

And I am tired of people all over this forum saying "don't be so negative" and "don't buy the software if you don't want to."

I am NOT buying the software, because as many have noted, it won't function for my pro work. What I AM impacted by is the simultaneous decision by Apple to pull FCS3. Not only does that indicate lack of continued support (like bug fix updates once it doesn't work correctly in Lion), but I now have no valid FCP7 purchase options. Suppose I need to install another license on another machine so I can hire a freelance editor to work with me on a high-volume of footage documentary I am making? Well now I have to troll ebay, hoping that the FCS3 packages there are legitimate, accept an invalidated warranty because I am buying from unauthorized vendors, etc etc.

As I posted elsewhere on this forum, it is a race against time: will FCPX achieve the necessary functionality (OMF, XML, import old sequences or projects, multi-cam, and many other details listed in Biscardi & Harrington's podcast) BEFORE the current FCP7.0.3 stops working in Lion or subsequent "Lion King" or "Cheetah" OS or whatever comes next?


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Herb Sevush
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:05:25 pm

Douglas

will FCPX achieve the necessary functionality (OMF, XML, import old sequences or projects, multi-cam) ... BEFORE the current FCP7.0.3 stops working in Lion?

I think you're being naive. I don't think FCPX will EVER have most of these features - it's not necessary for the market they are aiming at.

Knowing they were killing FCS3 the same day they were releasing X, if they wanted X to be able to open FCP project files it would have. This is real basic stuff, I'll bet Automatic Duck will have a file conversion available in the next few months. If after 2 years of development Apple can't do it now, why would they do it 3 months from now?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:49:12 pm

Herb, you underestimate my pessimism. The comment is rhetorical; of course it won't happen.

As I have said all over this forum, the fact that FCP7 is discontinued, that FCPX won't open our previous work, proves to me that Apple is out of the pro market for good. They would like to redefine what "pro" means of course, casting the high-end users as wonky, whining "elites" and convince every YouTuber out there that a MacBook "Pro" and Final Cut "Pro" X will accomplish 99% of everything that matters.

And they will be proven right, if the popularity of reality TV is any indication. Let Pixar labor with Renderman and proprietary software, let network TV folks cut on Avid, let feature films do the same... but the rest of the entertainment world will survive on instantly-shot-edited and spewed media.

I think Apple has been exiting the pro market for awhile, and this is the harshest evidence yet.


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danielle fillios
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:18:32 pm

I agree It's a race againts time! But I am very pessimistic. I suppose we are not the target anymore. They obviously earn money from Ipad and Imovie consumers. We are a very small market, and I am sure they switched to the laptop and Imac market and will abandon Macpros soon,too!


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Ken Pugh
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:05:43 pm

It was very funny. I mean FCP is dead OK but FINAL CUT EXPRESS noooooooo.........

But what worries me are the reports that iMovie Pro has to transcode all its imported media to ProRes - no native support for H264 or XDCAM etc. Just like FCP I'm sure new features will be added incrementally and in 10 years we could be back where we started. But having to transcode media on import to ProRes is not exactly a feature that can be incrementally improved - it's at the heart of the software. Great that you can edit while the transcoding is taking place, but.....

what happens when you need to do a fast edit with say 50 hours of DSLR H264 that all has to be transcoded before you can lay off to tape - oops sorry - export to iMovie - seems like a bit of a nightmare..... and then all the masses of storage required to keep backups etc.

So after editing a quick promo the diligent editor will be left with 50 hours of H264 and 100 hours of ProRes (including the safety backup) and 5 days of transcoding while he waits to export the edit into another programme for tape delivery (which most TV stations still require).

Game changer.

Ken.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:11:09 pm

Ken -

But what worries me are the reports that iMovie Pro has to transcode all its imported media to ProRes - no native support for H264 or XDCAM etc.

Couldn't agree more. I started an earlier thread entitled "its worse than we thought" primarily because of this information. Welcome to the future - but first we have to transcode all your material.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 9:30:20 pm

You do not have to do that. It is a preference.


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Ken Pugh
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:04:37 pm

Well that's a relief - I see from the help pages:

Create optimized media: This option transcodes video to the Apple ProRes 422 codec format, which provides better performance during editing, faster render times, and better color quality for compositing. Still images are transcoded to either JPEG (if the original file doesnʼt have alpha channel information) or PNG files (if the file has alpha channel information). If the original camera format can be edited with good performance, this option will be dimmed.

Again according to the help pages the supported codecs are:

You can import and work with the following video, audio, and still-image formats in Final Cut Pro:
Video formats
Apple Animation codec
Apple Intermediate codec
Apple ProRes (all versions)
AVC-Intra
AVCHD (including AVCCAM, AVCHD Lite, and NXCAM)
DV (including DVCAM, DVCPRO, and DVCPRO50) DVCPRO HD
H.264
HDV
iFrame Motion JPEG (OpenDML only)
MPEG IMX (D-10)
Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 Uncompressed
8-bit 4:2:2
XDCAM HD/EX/HD422
QuickTime formats



From the info above it seems a little more promising, this was the whole point of the re-write as far as I could see - no transcoding and multiple native codec editing. So all these codecs can be edited natively with real-time performance on the same timeline with no transcoding?

Ken.


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Annaël Beauchemin
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:04:54 pm

[Ken Pugh] "Just like FCP I'm sure new features will be added incrementally and in 10 years we could be back where we started."

I wonder how does Final Cut Pro 1.0 compares to Final Cut Pro X, feature-wise. We're talking of a 12 years gap from one to another.


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Ken Pugh
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:20:54 pm

Nice idea! But you are so cruel....

FCP 1 could digitise from tape
FCP 1 could lay off to tape
FCP 1 could export and EDL
FCP 1 could import an EDL
FCP 1 had a source window AND a record window

We wait for these features in FCPX

However it's true FCP 1 didn't have the ability to randomly move audio between tracks while moving shots in the timeline...

;-)

Ken.


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:36:06 pm

My memory is a bit fuzzy but didn't it have Match Frame? I'm positive it had real Replace.


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james carey
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 10:24:36 pm

Maybe i missed it in this thread, has anybody addressed this one telling sentence in the ARS op-ed:

"What's really rubbing users the wrong way, however, is Apple's decision to discontinue its mid-range Final Cut Express video editing software"

What? Has any body even complained (or cared) that FCE is gone? That the author of the article thinks this a big deal indicates a lack of understanding as to what has perturbed editing professionals. We are sorry that a excellent and professional video tool has been abandoned, with a pro-sumer version replacing it. Waiting for Apple to upgrade this semi-pro tool to a useable level may be akin to waiting for Apple to fix FCP's Media Management.

Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment


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Rafael Amador
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 11:25:34 pm

I fully agree with Tom Wolsky.
This is "iMovie Gold Star"
[Buddy Couch] "People haven't even had time to read the manual, "
Which manual?
Do you call that a manual?

[Buddy Couch] "ts missing some very important components "
Some very important component no, some BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL components for a guy who WORKS on video.
It will take 3 YEARS to catch FC.7 and will always be a crappy pack of presets.

Apple is not making a Professional-Video-Edit tool, is making an application to edit for his platform.
Apple will support only what will be interesting for Apple, and all his funny devices (Looks like Apple is getting ready for that "world of pain" that is BR. Well is one of the owners).

I started editing in 1985, and was not until I open FC first time in 2003, that I saw NLE designed by video editors and for video editors.
It seems that this time, the developers come from another galaxy: Must be future even if we don't understand it yet. If the "experts" say so, must be like that.
But mostly try to listen those that being less expert, spend 8/12 hours a day with FC.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 11:29:28 pm

Ya the one under help.


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 22, 2011 at 11:32:01 pm

I don't know his ultimate goals. I think we would be foolish at best to try and guess what they are. They do seem doomed at this point I must admit. We shall see. I guess its off to Avid for most.


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Tom Daigon
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 23, 2011 at 12:28:05 am

Buddy "I guess its off to Avid for most."

Wrong. Anyone that uses AE and PS lots is probably heading in the direction of CS5. Great interactivity between apps.

Anyone thats had to put up with Avids stodgy GUI, their cavalier attitude
and general foot dragging regarding innovation, is also heading for CS5.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Buddy Couch
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 23, 2011 at 12:50:57 am

I work with AE CS5. I avoid editing like the plague. I treat it like an evil little brother, you don't like him but you have to play with him every now and again :). Compositing has always been my passion. I bought FCPX and Motion 5 with hopes to migrate completely to my Mac. I have high hopes for Motion, not so much for FCPX. It does what I need it to do, which is more documentary type stuff. Formats aren't an issue for us as we use HDSLR for footage.

I have yet to figure out how to sync the audio from separate recorder. Its supposed to do this automatically the way I understood it. I am sure some input is required anyway.

I really like Sony Vegas Pro 10 and would have bought it instead of FCP if it was on mac. In my opinion its amazingly powerful for a software that I never really considered 'pro'. The sound controls are really nice.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 23, 2011 at 12:51:19 pm

"I really like Sony Vegas Pro 10 and would have bought it instead of FCP if it was on mac"

Says all I need to know about Mr. Couch's opinions.....


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Apple has not abandoned you. Good read for the naysayers :)
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:16:55 pm

[Bob Woodhead] ""I really like Sony Vegas Pro 10 and would have bought it instead of FCP if it was on mac"

Says all I need to know about Mr. Couch's opinions....."


In some respects I agree with you.
But you have to remember he said he was primarily a compositor, and not an editor.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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