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TV (Follow Up)

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Franz Bieberkopf
TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 2:05:28 pm

Relevant arstechnica posting on 4K TV.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/06/4k-tvs-are-coming-but-they-face-an-u...


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Rafael Amador
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 4:12:35 pm

One of the reason for the success of iPods/pads/phones and other gadgets is that people can show them everywhere to let others to see how smart they are. TVs are a bit more difficult to show around.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 5:15:31 pm

I predict that 4k will become the norm because manufactures will simply stop making HDTVs (just like they stopped making SDTVs to speed up HDTV adoption). That's not going to be for a while now because of manufacturing costs, but it'll happen. And people will watch HD content on their 4k sets and rave about awesome 4k is! :) 4k is also an easier sell then 3D because it lacks the problems 3D introduces.




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Bill Davis
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 5:30:31 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "And people will watch HD content on their 4k sets and rave about awesome 4k is! :) 4k is also an easier sell then 3D because it lacks the problems 3D introduces."

To shoehorn the discussion into movies and similar entertainment content, I think misses the point.

As someone who's been making video content for a few decades, I'm not actually as interested in a sharper view of Jessica Biel or Matt Damon - I'm interested in the viewers ability to call up information and see it clearly.

The higher the screen resolution, the better it can display text information and fine detail when that information is beneficial.

Anyone who's ever tried to do disclaimer type on a TV spot knows that one massive failure of the SD TV industry was it's abysmal ability to transmit and display dense text when necessary.

If we're to ever get a home display screen environment that can show a Cop show one minute, and a real estate survey plot the next - the tech has to change.

Right now that calls for 2 devices. A TV to watch the cop show - and a computer to enable the display of something like a line drawing.

That's just dumb in the modern, connected era.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Andrew Kimery
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 6:20:17 pm

[Bill Davis] "To shoehorn the discussion into movies and similar entertainment content, I think misses the point."

How did I shoehorn the discussion by making a tongue-in-cheek observation and how does my saying that TV set makers are continuously looking for the 'next big thing' to keep sales from stagnating or declining miss the point?




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Bill Davis
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 11:56:06 pm

Andrew,

This was not a dig at you at all.

Just my view that these discussions tend to start with "TV" as the target.

That's what's changing - and we all know it.

"Home imaging" is, IMO, moving beyond what broadcast used to be.

I don't know if the purported Apple TV will reflect this - or not.

But I do wonder how many hours are spent with humans watching TV rez, verses computer rez overall.

That's what I think is changing so fast.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Andrew Kimery
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 7:40:06 am

There is certainly convergence happening but I don't think things like playing video games, watching TV shows, movies and, especially, live sports are going to fade into the background when it comes to TV purchases. Sure, TVs will take on secondary abilities and maybe turn into the internet appliance that was first envisioned as WebTV back in the 90's but I think watching content will still be job #1 for the living room TV.

And no need to always be waiting around on Apple. For example, MS and the 360 are doing some very interesting things. If you have a Kinect you can use voice and gestures to control the 360 including voice search. So, if you say "Law and Order" it will pull up the TV show Law & Order, you can then pick the episode you want to watch and which service you want to watch it from (Netflix, Hulu+, etc.,). The next iteration of Internet Explorer 11 is also coming to the Xbox and it will be fully Kinect-enabled as well.

MS also recently unveiled its new feature called SmartGlass which is simliar to, though more expansive than, Apple's AirPlay. MS describes SmartGlass as more of a platform than an app (so devs are free to have at it) and it will be available for iOS, Android and Windows 8 mobile devices. SmartGlass could enable your mobile device to do a variety of things such as become a home theater style remote, become a keyboard & track pad to control IE on the Xbox, stream media to/from other SmartGlass devices, be used as a primary or secondary controller for a video game and act as a contextual 2nd screen (ex. you are watching Game of Thrones or a football game and relevant info, scores, bonus media, etc., is streamed to your device).

MS says it will be out later this year and an SDK was just recently made available to devs.




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Bill Davis
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 3:54:10 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "MS says it will be out later this year and an SDK was just recently made available to devs."

I hope they get it right.

I'm saying this as a guy who tried to watch a movie in my living room via NetFlix last night.

Unfortunately, that particular TV happened to be set up for Wii and so my kid convinced me to just access the Netflix interface via Wii remote.

That's a fine interface for virtual bowling - but about the dumbest human movie watching control construct imaginable.

The process drove me out of the living room and onto my iPad - where NetFlix actually works well.

Two polar opposites processes to meet the same customer desire - and it underscored to me how critical the whole user interface deal is.

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Andrew Kimery
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 4:33:01 pm

I haven't used Netflix on the Wii, but I'd make safe bet that using an Xbox or PS3 controller is even worse. Ugh. There's a reason standard universal remotes are optional buys for those systems.




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 5:22:20 pm

[Andrew Kimery] " haven't used Netflix on the Wii, but I'd make safe bet that using an Xbox or PS3 controller is even worse. Ugh. There's a reason standard universal remotes are optional buys for those systems."

iOS and Microsoft to the rescue

http://9to5mac.com/2012/06/13/control-your-xbox-with-iphone-with-the-update...


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Andrew Kimery
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 5:51:46 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "iOS and Microsoft to the rescue"

Nice. I didn't realize they'd updated the App w/that. I'll have to check it out when I get home.




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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 5:42:24 pm

[Bill Davis] "Unfortunately, that particular TV happened to be set up for Wii and so my kid convinced me to just access the Netflix interface via Wii remote. That's a fine interface for virtual bowling - but about the dumbest human movie watching control construct imaginable."

Bill,

I'm reminded of some recent thread postings, typically of this nature:

"There's also some value in learning that what a particular individual has chosen to tag as "dumb" might be seen as tremendously beneficial to those who might be better able to separate their cognitive thinking from their emotional thinking and thereby resist projecting that same emotional thinking to the world as factual.

It's "dumb control" for you. It's extremely useful new thinking for me.

Your "dumb control" - in the hands of someone who - instead of dismissing it based on a negative emotional response - has taken the time to look at a common task that it might improve has proved to me to be a major efficiently boost."


Franz.

(I think there was a Justice O'Conn0r quote in there too, but I've edited for brevity.)


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Bill Davis
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 9:06:09 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "Franz.

(I think there was a Justice O'Conn0r quote in there too, but I've edited for brevity.)
"


So your argument is that a Wii controller is actually a good interface for Netflix, huh.

OK.

Go with that.

Most people understand the subtleties of trying to apply the same concepts to wildly different experiences, but if those kinds of distinctions escapes you - I can only wish you well in life.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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TImothy Auld
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 9:21:01 pm

Most people understand subtlety not at all.

Tim


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Bill Davis
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 9:26:03 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Most people understand subtlety not at all.

Tim"


Clearly.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Joseph Owens
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 7:32:45 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I predict that 4k will become the norm"

Pardon my ignorance, but is this full 4,000 x whatever RGB in all sensors, or is this that fake 4K Bayer pattern which if you aren't doing a lot of interpolation is really 2K?

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 11:04:06 pm

[Joseph Owens] "Pardon my ignorance, but is this full 4,000 x whatever RGB in all sensors, or is this that fake 4K Bayer pattern which if you aren't doing a lot of interpolation is really 2K?"

At first no, but then yes and it will be marketed as 'Full 4k'!




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Bill Davis
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 5:23:46 pm

[Rafael Amador] "One of the reason for the success of iPods/pads/phones and other gadgets is that people can show them everywhere to let others to see how smart they are. TVs are a bit more difficult to show around.
rafael
"


Rafael,

A very minor one at best.

If this were a significant reason, then as soon as someone's circle of friends all "knew" you have the device, mission accomplished - and it would start to lose it's power.

The alternate view is that these devices are actually just really satisfying for their users.

As a class, they are is a superb "personal connection device" in a world where constant connection can really improve ones life - provided your life is structured in such a way that constant connection is useful to you.

Trends in human behavior follow paths of self-benefit. And while everyone certainly has an ego and iDevices at some level appeal to that - to single this fact out as the one worth focusing on is to misunderstand some huge shifts in society taking place.

This is the information era. Access to more information, faster, is a competitive advantage in many, many situations. Smart devices enable precisely that.

And Apple's smart devices - along with the ecosystem that supports them - are currently the most developed expression of that.

An initial iPad or iPhone or Blackberry purchase might initially be someone's "ego" talking - but the wild success of the entire connected ecosystem - apps stores, cloud storage, news feeds, shopping, credit card processing, education, entertainment, etc, etc, etc... is the whole brain talking, IMO.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 7:30:51 pm

Hi Bill -

I take issue with "constant connection improves ones life". I firmly believe that constant connection on faceless, voiceless (for the most part - I know very few people under 30 who do more than text on their phones) devices is what's killing this world.

You've got generations of people who are constantly in contact, sending funny cat videos and jokes they didn't even write themselves, to people who are so bored and lonely that they actually think that this faux communication constitutes "connection".

Here's a link to a very interesting (albeit long) article from the Atlantic which explores just what I'm talking about:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/05/is-facebook-making-us-l...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Kevin Patrick
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 9:45:14 pm

Bill,

I clicked on your link. But I didn't see any cat videos.

I think the appropriate response would be:

:(

Kevin


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Chris Harlan
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 11:07:38 pm

[Kevin Patrick] "Bill,

I clicked on your link. But I didn't see any cat videos.

I think the appropriate response would be:

:(
"


I too was disheartened not to see either kitty videos or a honey badger. I shall remedy that now:







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Dominic Deacon
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 2:50:38 am

An excellent funny cat video edited in FCPX no less.







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Bill Davis
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 12:03:09 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] "You've got generations of people who are constantly in contact, sending funny cat videos and jokes they didn't even write themselves, to people who are so bored and lonely that they actually think that this faux communication constitutes "connection".
"


Well sure.

But in the early days of TV, you had Howdy Doody and Ed Sulivan too. Arturo T and the NBC orchestra were the exceptions rather than the rule.

TV matured.

On-line will as well.

Cat videos will never disappear - but with the cost of content production down, there will obviously be new chances for more people to connect with the content they wish - and quality will have it's place.

I can not just talk to or text with - but see and even send content to - my wife via my iPhone or iPad. It's a richer connection, IMO.

Just up to all of us to figure out how to use it sensibly.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jul 1, 2012 at 2:59:22 am

I'm with you there, Bill. I use the most current tools at hand, and I neither find myself lonely, nor overly narcissistic. It just seems that people in general rely more and more on the impersonal aspects of the technology, rather than the ones that enable us to have better quality connections, and more, rather than less personal contact. I hope I'm wrong.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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tony west
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 28, 2012 at 11:13:02 pm

[Bill Davis] "Trends in human behavior follow paths of self-benefit."

Yes.

Not many can see the 27in display I'm working on in my office but I bought it so "I" could see it.

I buy for me. As do most.


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Rafael Amador
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 3:34:54 am

Bill,
Have you look at the link posted by Walter?
(http://gigaom.com/video/tv-replacement-cycle/)
It happens that in the USA 30% of the households still having SD TVs, and this after the manufacturers stopped long ago selling them and after years when people has easy access to cheap money to buy whatever they wanted.
i don't say that 4K TV won't arrive or that Apple won't make them, but I think that will take time.

You are right that we are in the era of information, but we are also in the era of mobility, and a big 4k screen represents the opposite. In the end TVs are old and the only they can do is get bigger and with more things to watch. About picture quality, except professionals, people don't give a damn. Just look at the Bluray market penetration;

http://multimediajay.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/finally-25-disc-market-penetr...

rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Bill Davis
Re: TV (Follow Up)
on Jun 29, 2012 at 4:03:23 pm

[Rafael Amador] "You are right that we are in the era of information, but we are also in the era of mobility, and a big 4k screen represents the opposite. In the end TVs are old and the only they can do is get bigger and with more things to watch. About picture quality, except professionals, people don't give a damn. Just look at the Bluray market penetration;"

Rafael,

We agree here.

The one area where i think 4k stands any chance is if that resolution turns out to be an optional use for the central device that provides other services in a household media center scenario.

I can see people opting for a central high-rez screen as the main information portal for their homes - I just think it's got to do a whole lot more than just display high-rez movies.

And my last Sony TV purchase confirmed that. It does 50 things that no TV I've ever purchased previously could do via WiFi and Cable access.

If the 4k movie resolution ALSO gets me better internet text display, for example - then I can see the value.

It's kinda like the Apple push toward the retina displays. More rez isn't particularly "necessary" - but there's not much downside to having it if you don't have to pay a whole lot extra for it.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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