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Erik Lindahl
Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 10:25:46 am







Clearly, it's hard.


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Andrew Richards
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 11:22:46 am

Well to be fair, that isn't a Xeon mobo.

Best,
Andy


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Craig Seeman
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 11:57:30 am

Apple doesn't have a non Xeon computer with internal PCIe slots as well.



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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 12:26:01 pm

There is a lot of things Apple don't have, like a desktop from 2012! :) Every single Mac in Apples arsenal is a laptop except the MacPro. The problem is the MacPro is based on 2009-2010 hardware.

There have been a lot of comments regarding the issues with a discreet GPU on PCIe-architecture as well as Thunderbolt to why a MacPro from 2012 is a "problem". Clearly it's not a huge problem solving it. Possibly Intel skipped Thunderbolt support in the E-series Xeons. That to me sounds quite far fetched though.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 12:46:00 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "That to me sounds quite far fetched though."

Regardless of what it "sounds" like, that would be the case. I've seen no report from Intel or anyone else with Xeon processors with Thunderbolt on the motherboard.

[Erik Lindahl] "Every single Mac in Apples arsenal is a laptop except the MacPro"

iMac although last updated in early 2011 whose top of the line has quad i7 with two Thunderbolt ports and, like their other computers except the MacPro, has built in GPU chip not sitting on a PCIe card.

[Erik Lindahl] "Clearly it's not a huge problem solving it."

Show me ONE Xeon motherboard example. There aren't any. Don't you think other workstation makers would do this if it were possible?



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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 12:56:22 pm

The iMac technically is a laptop with a 27" screen. The upgradeability is also somewhat questionable. If it had a proper discreet GPU it would be a lot more viable desktop-solution. If one could actually upgrade the internal HDD's with out special solutions that would be another win.

I haven't seen a Xeon Thunderbolt solution since the makers of the Xeon-floura of machines I presume feel it's not needed (maybe even Intel feels so - I think HP has openly stated they aren't going to go for TB for now). Or might be the fact these 2012 Xeon systems use PCIe 3.0 which makes TB a problem. I can't say.

What I can say is Apple is lagging like crazy on the desktop. They had a one year head-start with TB and that didn't give them all that much. Looking at the ASUS example a system like that - given not a "mac pro" system in regards to all aspects - could for example make a software like FCPX, Premier Pro, After Effects or Resolve dance. At the moment Apple is stuck with laptop chips or desktop chips from 2009-2010. They've also cracked the "issue" some people have spoken about TB and user upgradeable GPU:s (i.e. it's not a problem it seems). Apple isn't even trying to remedy a huge issue on their platform which is available option on the GPU-front (i.e. allow GPU-acceleration over TB as has been shown to work well in Windows).


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Andrew Richards
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 3:41:21 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Looking at the ASUS example a system like that - given not a "mac pro" system in regards to all aspects - could for example make a software like FCPX, Premier Pro, After Effects or Resolve dance."

Could it? Don't be fooled by the presence of physical slots. They are not all-lanes all-the-time. The Z77 chipset on that board only supports a single 16x slot for a GPU (it is halved to 8x+8x when in SLI/CrossFire duty on that board), and then there are only 8 more lanes of PCIe left to go around.

If the two 16x and two 4x slots on a Mac Pro are not enough, and that is a consistent complaint I read around here, then why is one 16x and one 8x on this ASUS enough? Never mind the RAM limit at 32GB and the single 4 core HTCPU.

One 16x PCIe GPU and 8 lanes of combined PCIe I/O? Sounds a lot like the I/O capacity on a 27" iMac. The iMac may only be equipped with a mobile-class GPU, but it isn't like Apple left any I/O on the cutting room floor.

Best,
Andy


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 3:56:41 pm

It still beats everything Apple has on the desktop except the MacPro in certain situations (given I think a system based on this would cost less than the iMac). People talk about Thunderbolt as a good expansion solution where there you're stuck with even less i/o performance than the PCIe-slots from the above motherboard.

This wouldn't be the MacPro replacement. It would be the Apple desktop compliment product they've been laking since… Well for ever I think. As a "high end desktop system" it would be perfect. The other option would be going with a simpler Xeon-system but these tend to run away in terms of price very fast (look at for example the HP Z1 vs iMac). But sure, if Apple could scale the MacPro from around $1000 and up that would be perfectly fine. There are other benefits of Core vs Xeon though - more frequent updates, often a lot of bang for the buck.

Currently they have their 2-3 year old machine lurking along. Or an 27" MacBook Pro that requires a power cable. For some applications - it's perfect. For a others it very much not so.

I'd imagine a mobile GPU will have a harder time saturating the buss seeing these are something in the lines of 2-3 years behind desktop GPUs in performance, not to mention being able to have multiple GPU's which neither the iMac, MacMini or MacBook Pro handles (even via TB as they should but they don't).


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Walter Soyka
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 4:38:51 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Or an 27" MacBook Pro that requires a power cable."

This was good for a chuckle.

In fairness to the iMac, you can get it with a desktop Core i7-2600 -- very good performance for the money at launch.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 4:50:26 pm

Well the Mac-lineup is CPU-wise decent (disregarding the MacPro at the moment that is). But GPU and expansibility wise it's somewhat of a mess. I mean "if only" the iMac had the current generation desktop CPU AND GPU it would be so much more of a robust system especially considering the giant screen that poor GPU has to power. If you also had the option of either a consumer AMD chip as well as a consumer nVidia Chip or even a professional nVidia Chip - we'd really be rocking.

Now we're basically stranded with a huge laptop with the GPU-performance a mid-range desktop GPU had 2009 or 2010.

Yes, the iMac would still be stuck at 32GB RAM and possibly 4 cores (I thought there was a 6-core version of the IvyBridge CPU but I might be mistaking). Still it would up the performance of the machine in a lot of tasks probably 5 fold - even in Apples own apps (FCPX and Aperture)

http://www.barefeats.com/wst10g14.html

The above says it more than anything. Still that's 6 months old.

Radeon 7970 = 100% (not available for the Mac yet)
Radeon 5870 = 28% (the best the MacPro can offer)
Radeon 6970M = 15% (the best the iMac can offer, or roughly 50% of what the 2-3 year old MacPro can offer).

It's quite ridiculous to be honest.


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Andrew Richards
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 5:45:51 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "I mean "if only" the iMac had the current generation desktop CPU AND GPU it would be so much more of a robust system especially considering the giant screen that poor GPU has to power."

The Ivy Bridge i7 3700 chips we should expect in a 2012 iMac haven't even been shipping for two months at this point. If the iMac doesn't get its Ivy Bridge bump in the next few weeks around the release of Mountain Lion, I'll be pretty surprised. They'll probably get current-gen mobile GPUs as well, and of course those pale in comparison to desktop-class GPUs.

[Erik Lindahl] "I thought there was a 6-core version of the IvyBridge CPU but I might be mistaking"

There isn't yet. They are probably coming later this year.

Anyhow...

Really, the only performance gap is the class of the GPU, right? Once you really start going down the list of what you want in a desktop pro video work, you quickly surpass what that ASUS mobo and its peers can support. Those are gamer boards. They only really care about driving GPUs and not much else. There is not enough PCIe pipe in the Z77 for serious storage I/O (x8 PCIe 2.0) and video I/O (x4 PCIe 2.0) and a big desktop GPU (x16 PCIe 3.0).

Best,
Andy


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Bill Davis
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 6:43:59 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "The iMac technically is a laptop with a 27" screen."

Uh,

There are 10 (to the gazillionth power) of images floating around the internet.

So far I haven't seen a single one of anyone operating an iMac on their lap.

Just sayin'

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 1:12:45 pm

I thought that the new "MacPro" that was coming out this year was going to be i7 based "towers".

Apple would sell a slew of them, they'd be priced right, they'd be decently powerful.

From a technology perspective, it's good to know that this is possible. I would imagine it would take application updates to be able to recognize the CUDA for speed and integrated GPU for display.

Pr CS6 seems to be smart enough today, but is anything else ready?


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 1:16:51 pm

My previous reply is being held for a possible "profanity word" (it's not but I get why it got stopped). Never the less…

Yes - a desktop "MacPro Mini" based on a 6-core i7 IvyBridge would be a terrific middle-machine between the iMac and the MacPro we have today (given the MacPro is updated to 2012/2013's standards). It would also be good if Apple took the ball and made things like Jeremy mentions easier for developers to utilize. Resolve works the way you state Jeremy though I thought Premier did not (CS5.x didn't at least). After Effects CS6's raytracing engine when used with CUDA will use all available CUDA-hardware in the system however.


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Bill Davis
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 6:50:24 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "My previous reply is being held for a possible "profanity word" (it's not but I get why it got stopped). Never the less… "

Makes me laugh.

I can't seem to stop myself from using the term (spec) combined with the suffix (ialist) - which triggers the same filter since buried in that word is the trade name for a common Erec - tile Dis - function medication.

Probably happens to me twice a month.

This darn internet thing sure can be persnickety.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Craig Seeman
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 1:26:55 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I thought that the new "MacPro" that was coming out this year was going to be i7 based "towers"."

Any indication of that? I haven't seen it in their reports. If that would be the case than the "Asus" argument is legitimate. I can't see a huge delay as projected in the media unless Apple was very late in starting the case redesign.



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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 1:39:20 pm

There hasn't been anything officially said or done no, given this is the machine that's always been lacking in Apples line-up.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 1:40:56 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Any indication of that? I haven't seen it in their reports. If that would be the case than the "Asus" argument is legitimate. I can't see a huge delay as projected in the media unless Apple was very late in starting the case redesign."

I am talking pre-WWDC announcements. I thought that perhaps the new and rumored "MacPro" was going to turn in to an i7 based tower with thunderbolt. Obviously, that didn't pan out. ;)


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Craig Seeman
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem…
on Jun 20, 2012 at 1:48:36 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I am talking pre-WWDC announcements. I thought that perhaps the new and rumored "MacPro" was going to turn in to an i7 based tower with thunderbolt. Obviously, that didn't pan out. ;)"

And if Apple at least had announced an iMacPro or an otherwise updated iMac at the BTO price of around $2300 it would be a reasonable purchase for me. Given that didn't happen, I suspect they're looking at a "more challenging" update. If it takes them until "later in 2013" for an i7 update with Thunderbolt and USB3 that would certainly be cause to concern at that point. They longer they take, the more I'm going to expect from them.



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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 5:05:44 pm

The below is a quote from Netkas.org in regards to OpenGL-supprt in OSX 10.7.x as well as 10.8.
As for this update, no it doesn’t add any new apis though, nor did DP4 of 10.8, still same 3.2 support, which is ridiculous considering 3.2 is 2009-2010 tech and 4.2 is what we SHOULD be getting in 10.8. But that’s apple for you, 2-3 years behind on gaming at all times while innovating mobile market.
It's actually quite ironic the OS is lagging pretty much as far behind as the hardware is.


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Andrew Richards
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 5:54:10 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "It's actually quite ironic the OS is lagging pretty much as far behind as the hardware is."

For OpenGL. Which is really only for realtime 3D rendering. Games and Maya, that's about it.

OS X does recently look pretty stale in terms of its underpinnings though- the atrophy from the early years of iOS when Apple was stealing dev cycles from OS X is still showing today, including Mountain Lion.

Best,
Andy


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 6:10:04 pm

OpenGL, OpenCL (this did get a boost in 10.7.4 so maybe there is hope) - not sure the "state" of how CoreMedia is in OSX 10.8 but in 10.7 QuickTime and CoreMedia is half-developed it seems.

All these fundamental technologies accelerate more and more pro apps. And even if the GPU is the only thing lacking that's huge. And, it's not just lacking, it's around 1/8th of the performance it *should* be. And the fact Apple doesn't offer the choice of AMD or nVidia graphics render CUDA-apps useless as well.

I don't see how and iMac or a Mac Mini is in any way better than for example the ASUS-board for general to high-end media creation and consumption.


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Andrew Richards
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 7:08:31 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "OpenCL (this did get a boost in 10.7.4 so maybe there is hope)"

As far as I know, OpenCL 1.1 support is there today in Lion. Given that the OpenCL 1.2 spec was only announced last November, I'd expect to see it in Mountain Lion since that is right around the corner.

[Erik Lindahl] "not sure the "state" of how CoreMedia is in OSX 10.8 but in 10.7 QuickTime and CoreMedia is half-developed it seems. "

Well QuickTime is long deprecated at this point. AVFoundation is all there is moving forward. CoreMedia sits beneath AVFoundation. Where do you see it coming up short?

[Erik Lindahl] "All these fundamental technologies accelerate more and more pro apps. And even if the GPU is the only thing lacking that's huge. And, it's not just lacking, it's around 1/8th of the performance it *should* be. And the fact Apple doesn't offer the choice of AMD or nVidia graphics render CUDA-apps useless as well. "

I agree Apple's GPU offerings are weak, though I think CUDA's importance is going to fade pretty quickly now that OpenCL has matured as quickly as it has. CUDA was the only GPGPU game in town for a while, but OpenCL is the clear path forward for GPGPU. Why stick with CUDA when OpenCL code is so much more portable?

[Erik Lindahl] "I don't see how and iMac or a Mac Mini is in any way better than for example the ASUS-board for general to high-end media creation and consumption."

I never intimated the iMac was better, and I never even mentioned the Mac mini (which unlike the iMac actually is made of laptop bits). I said the iMac, excluding its underpowered GPU, offers roughly equivalent I/O options (and it does). That ASUS and its Z77-based peers can be entry-level workstations, but you really have to max them out to call them that. My real point is that the iMac and any of these gamer-spec rigs is not even remotely in the same class as the Xeon stuff. There is quite a wide gulf between the Z77 and an i7 and a dual E5 Xeon system in every respect.

Best,
Andy


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Walter Soyka
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 7:31:42 pm

[Andrew Richards] "I think CUDA's importance is going to fade pretty quickly now that OpenCL has matured as quickly as it has. CUDA was the only GPGPU game in town for a while, but OpenCL is the clear path forward for GPGPU. Why stick with CUDA when OpenCL code is so much more portable?"

I'm not sure that OpenCL is the clear path forward for GPGPU over CUDA any more than OpenGL was the clear path forward for graphics over DirectX.

OpenCL is not GPGPU per se; it's heterogeneous parallel computing, allowing OpenCL kernels to execute on any OpenCL device (CPU, GPU, some other DSP). That has the big advantage of portability, but that potentially comes at the cost of performance (at least for now).

If NVIDIA can continue to drive CUDA performance (both in terms of hardware and compiler optimizations), and if they provide a superior development experience (with libraries like OptiX that run on CUDA), we may continue seeing new CUDA applications.

Developers will need a reason to switch existing applications away from CUDA and over to OpenCL. This incentive may go away in our niche if Apple dumps AMD graphics and goes steady with NVIDIA for a while.

I think it may be some time yet before we see a clear winner here.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Andrew Richards
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 8:03:12 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I'm not sure that OpenCL is the clear path forward for GPGPU over CUDA any more than OpenGL was the clear path forward for graphics over DirectX."

A key difference in this case is Microsoft wasn't the principal sponsor of OpenGL the way NVIDIA is the principal sponsor of OpenCL. Then again, NVIDIA can abuse their position to favor CUDA... But AMD and Intel should be able to keep them honest.

[Walter Soyka] "Developers will need a reason to switch existing applications away from CUDA and over to OpenCL. This incentive may go away in our niche if Apple dumps AMD graphics and goes steady with NVIDIA for a while."

Adobe has already adopted OpenCL, and are using it in more apps than CUDA already in CS6. Photoshop CS6 uses OpenCL, but not CUDA. Premiere Pro CS6 uses both, though their CUDA implementation does enable four more filters for GPU MPE than their OpenCL implementation at this point.

[Walter Soyka] "I think it may be some time yet before we see a clear winner here."

I don't think CUDA will disappear, but I do think that its grip on GPU-accelerated software is will be loosened considerably over the next couple years. CUDA isn't going away, but it also isn't going to be the deal-breaker it had been the past couple years.

Best,
Andy


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Walter Soyka
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 8:22:47 pm

[Andrew Richards] "A key difference in this case is Microsoft wasn't the principal sponsor of OpenGL the way NVIDIA is the principal sponsor of OpenCL. Then again, NVIDIA can abuse their position to favor CUDA... But AMD and Intel should be able to keep them honest."

I drew the comparison for a closed standard versus an open one, but your points on the politics are well-taken.


[Andrew Richards] "Adobe has already adopted OpenCL, and are using it in more apps than CUDA already in CS6. Photoshop CS6 uses OpenCL, but not CUDA. Premiere Pro CS6 uses both, though their CUDA implementation does enable four more filters for GPU MPE than their OpenCL implementation at this point."

After Effects CS6's new ray tracer is built on OptiX, and runs only on the CPU or a CUDA GPU.


[Andrew Richards] "I don't think CUDA will disappear, but I do think that its grip on GPU-accelerated software is will be loosened considerably over the next couple years. CUDA isn't going away, but it also isn't going to be the deal-breaker it had been the past couple years."

Agreed!

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 8:28:16 pm

Agree with this.

But at the end of the day Apple should offer OPTIONS. They don't need to offer the full range of nVidias say 10-15 current GPU'S. But they should have at least 1 current AMD and nVidia GPU, preferably 1 "general purpose" and 1 "performance" (the integrated Intel chips probably cover the general purpose these days).

This is I think thought to technical / complex for Apple. They want a clever, perversely fair "locked" system. This doesn't have to be bad but since Apple more and more is losing diversify in its hardware - for the more "power user" - its becoming it more and more.

The odd thing is they tend to have heaps of CPU / Memory options so I don't get why they can't do the same for GPU.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 8:18:07 pm

On iPhone so quouting is a bit scetchy but here goes:

I could be OpenCL in generall has been "bad". I heard from two-three CUDA-accelerated solutions at IBC 2010 wondering why they don't support OpenCL and at the time (and still) OpenCL is way behind in performance especially on OSX. Apple COULD HAVE driven this but they haven't really bothered (10.7.4 gives some hope).

Where CoreMedia or AVFoundation falls short is with a lot of given solutions that work with QuickTime (and have for years) but Apple hasn't implemented in their new media platform. For exmple GlueTools I think will be completely broken in 10.8 since the hooks just aren't there for that kind of a solution. It also seems the "smart rendering" that's been in QuickTime since the 90's is gone. Is there even a I/O function like QuickTime has?

It seems somewhat so so made quite work-in-progress.

We can only hope OpenCL takes ground. Seing CUDA has a huge backing by nVidia its likely their edge will remain. OpenCL is still sub-par in all "real" applications today. The aside the choice of GPU's are weak as every single Mac has a laptop GPU in them which IMO is madness. It makes sense to offer those types of systems but a "normal" core i7 system for sure has its place.

I fully agree the ASUS board isnt a MacPro replacement. But it could be a solid complement. Its replace a lot of iMac where you want a speedy GPU and you want the choice of displays. And you don't loose thunderbolt. This is very much of interest for image-professionals.


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Andrew Richards
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 8:43:44 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "On iPhone so quouting is a bit scetchy but here goes:"

It used to work in iOS 4, but it broke in 5. Curses!

[Erik Lindahl] "Where CoreMedia or AVFoundation falls short is with a lot of given solutions that work with QuickTime (and have for years) but Apple hasn't implemented in their new media platform. For exmple GlueTools I think will be completely broken in 10.8 since the hooks just aren't there for that kind of a solution."

Anything that relies on the old QT APIs is going to stop working whenever they ultimately drop support for them. Same goes for Carbon. I'm not sure what Glue Tools is calling on, so I can't really say if they could be duplicating their functionality with AVFoundation.

[Erik Lindahl] "It also seems the "smart rendering" that's been in QuickTime since the 90's is gone."

I'm not sure if "smart rendering" is a QuickTime API dependency thing or an app implementation thing. From what I understand about AVFoundation, there is more flexibility in terms of assembling and ordering movie atoms, not less.

[Erik Lindahl] "Is there even a I/O function like QuickTime has?"

CoreMediaIO. It is how FCPX does broadcast monitoring and was new in Lion, hence the Lion requirement for FCPX broadcast monitoring and the associated device drivers from AJA, BMD, etc.

[Erik Lindahl] "It seems somewhat so so made quite work-in-progress."

Isn't everything? I'll say this, Apple's developer documentation on it is pathetic.

[Erik Lindahl] "Its replace a lot of iMac where you want a speedy GPU and you want the choice of displays. And you don't loose thunderbolt. This is very much of interest for image-professionals."

I'd buy one! I wish Apple put more effort into OS X, it really does show who's boss in Cupertino these days. Their claims of being the "most advanced desktop OS on the world" haven't been defensible since Snow Leopard was new. Right now it looks like a house mid-renovation.

Best,
Andy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 9:00:10 pm

[Andrew Richards] "It used to work in iOS 4, but it broke in 5. Curses!"

It still works, you just have to hold the "Quote" button until you get the JavaScript popup.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 9:01:46 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "It still works, you just have to hold the "Quote" button until you get the JavaScript popup."

Nice.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Andrew Richards
Re: Adding Thunderbolt to the MacPro is such a big problem�
on Jun 20, 2012 at 9:15:21 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "It still works, you just have to hold the "Quote" button until you get the JavaScript popup."

So it does, thanks!

Posted from my iPhone

Best,
Andy


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