FORUMS: list search recent posts

Others insight....

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>

Gary Huff
Re: Others insight....
on Jun 13, 2012 at 4:12:26 am

Hope springs eternal.


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 5:16:56 am

Frankly Eric, this is a no brainer. Apple has hung you and everyone else out to dry, and with only some vague bullshit about the future, supposedly released by unknown executives to their biggest fanboy at the NY Times.

Try to take that to the bank and see if they'll loan you a plug nickle based on that speculation. Yet many media professionals will build their entire business around it? That's just pure silliness.

Forget the BS for a minute and let's talk turkey. Is there a Mac that can actually play RED RAW 5K files seamlessly, in realtime, even with a RED Rocket card? At NAB we (ProMAX) were playing back and editing 5K Epic RAW files on our ProMAX ONE, in realtime, while simultaneously encoding to of the 5K RAW files to h.264, without dropping frames. And, that was without a $5000 RED Rocket card (serious $$$ better spent elsewhere, don't ya think?).

So, even if Apple is really doing something, as their unnamed mystery executive suggests, are you and others actually williing to invest your business and career in more of their vacant promises? And more importantly, are you willing to wait until some unspecified time in 2013 for Apple to deliver more unknown hardware that will provide unknown levels of performance that you could already have been doing, and probably doing better, since April 2012?

Namby-pamby reactions to yet another example of Apple dropping the ball are laughable, and they prove P.T. Barnum was right, there really are suckers born every minute.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


Return to posts index


Chris Harlan
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 5:42:26 am

[David Roth Weiss] "At NAB we (ProMAX) were playing back and editing 5K Epic RAW files on our ProMAX ONE, in realtime, while simultaneously encoding to of the 5K RAW files to h.264, without dropping frames."

Now, David, you know that if its not on a Mac it doesn't exist.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 6:50:35 am

Unusual sales technique there David, sales pitch followed by insults!

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 8:11:11 am

Well, since the entire post was a comment on Apple, and a warning to fellow Cows against putting eggs in Apple's workstation basket, but not a sales pitch, and not an insult to anyone other than Apple and Times huckster David Pogue, it looks like I evidently completely failed at my writing task and missed compeletly with at least one member of the target audience. So, I hereby retract everthing I said earlier, as Steve seems to have proven I'm just a dimwitted hack.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


Return to posts index


Kevin Patrick
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 12:17:04 pm

I'm not exactly sure what David's intentions were. Sometimes what you read is different from what you would hear. But in this case I think I read his post the same way you probably did.

It appeared to me he was referring to the Mac Pro discussions here as Namby-pamby reactions. (I had to look that one up) Which he also felt were laughable. Also his comments about suckers appeared to also be pointed at the people who discuss and speculate on the Mac Pro's future. So, you're not the only one who took David's comments as an insult.

It appeared that David attempted to clarify his comments. But his complete retraction and dimwitted hack comment didn't seem like the most sincere way to clarify things. What's odd is he seems to be representing both ProMax and the Creative COW.

I guess you and I read things differently.


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 2:09:19 pm

Okay, for the same reason I hate using smiley faces, I abhor having to read between the lines for people who who can't manage to do it for themselves, but here goes anyway...

When I reflect upon the sheer number of wasted words, mispent hours, and lost bandwidth that was devoted to speculation about what turned out to the most innaccurate milling of rumor ever, I find it mindnumbing.

And, anything less than outrage at what was actually delivered, or should I say, not delivered, is simply lunacy. P.T Barnum would probably be working at Apple today, and he'd be a terrific admirer of David Pogue who's again leading hoards of very willing lemmings toward yet another cliff in 2013.

Botoom line is, anyone who still believes deserves to fall over the cliff. Natural selection works.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 2:22:43 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "I abhor having to read between the lines for people who who can't manage to do it for themselves"

Are you saying (since you replied to me) that I can't read between the lines? You might be correct. I don't try to read between the lines what someone wrote. I read what they wrote. But that's just me.

[David Roth Weiss] "anything less than outrage at what was actually delivered, or should I say, not delivered, is simply lunacy."

So, anyone who's not outraged is a lunatic? That seems a little harsh. Or am I reading what you wrote instead of reading between the lines? I guess the answer to my question is obvious.

[David Roth Weiss] "anyone who still believes deserves to fall over the cliff."

Let me try to read between the lines on this one. If it's a big cliff, you could be seriously hurt or even die. Perhaps you mean a really little cliff. One small enough so you'll come to your senses and buy a ProMax System. Did I get that right?


Return to posts index


Michael Gissing
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 2:29:42 pm

My inner doco pedant would like to correct the record by pointing out that lemmings do not jump off cliffs. It was a fallacy invented by Disney film makers in the film White Wilderness -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Wilderness_%28film%29

Humans are one of the only species that genuinely suicide. Carry on....


Return to posts index

Dan Stewart
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 6:28:30 pm

.. And that was said about PT Barnum not by him :)



Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 5:04:14 pm

Note that David is an employee of ProMAX, and does not speak for the COW.

I'm going to take a guess and say he's speaking as an FCP user who like many folks here built much of his pre-ProMAX career on Apple's stuff.

and while I enjoy talking about all this, and after 35 years of doing video, owning Apple stuff since 1979 (some of my favorite Apple II stuff never showed up in Mac) have formed some strong opinions, I'm only speaking FOR the COW when I'm speaking ABOUT the COW, where plenty of other folks think I'm nuts. they love me and all that, but to say I'm speaking for myself is an understatement.

Sorry for anything that looks wackier than usual...typing while I drive.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index


TImothy Auld
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 14, 2012 at 12:22:38 am

[Tim Wilson] "Sorry for anything that looks wackier than usual...typing while I drive."

I think that's a mandatory life prison sentence in this state. Or maybe death. Can't remember.

Tim


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 15, 2012 at 4:36:43 pm

Timothy, I was hoping that the length of my post and my general wisenheimer-y tone in the COW that "typing while I drive" would sound like a joke. Sorry if this was another of my jokes to fall flat. I don't even keep my phone on when I drive.

And Dan, THANK YOU for pointing out that "There's a sucker born every minute" was said ABOUT Barnum. Understanding this basic fact turns the quote on its head.

Barnum wasn't even vaguely cynical. He was a circus guy. People go to the circus specifically because they WANT the wool pulled over their eyes. It's FUN. You're not being a sucker if you go to a circus and have a good time.

His competitors were mad that he kept pulling it off.

Anyway, I've been thinking about things like that in context of my general pattern here. I'm as emotional as anyone else about this stuff, and while I've never said something I don't believe, I'm concerned that my generally happy disposition is being skewed by posting about stuff that pisses me off -- because the fact is that I really don't REALLY pissed off about much at all.

So by way of a sort-of apology for being a dick, which still comes distressingly naturally to me, I'm making an effort to be as positive online as I am in person.

Hence I'd like to enthusiastically recommend my article on cinematographer Gregg Toland and his work in Citizen Kane, The Grapes of Wrath, and pictures that changed the way we see light, called Cinematic Composition. LOL Where never is heard a discouraging word, and the skies are not cloudy all day.

And feel free to stampede to the comments section of the article and demand, "You call this insight?" LOL Nope. Just another fanboy, which is what I mostly am about most stuff.

Yr pal,
Timmy


Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 15, 2012 at 4:49:52 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Hence I'd like to enthusiastically recommend my article on cinematographer Gregg Toland and his work in Citizen Kane, The Grapes of Wrath, and pictures that changed the way we see light, called Cinematic Composition. LOL Where never is heard a discouraging word, and the skies are not cloudy all day.
"


Great article Tim, thanks for pointing it out!

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


Return to posts index


David Roth Weiss
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 14, 2012 at 12:41:54 am

[Tim Wilson] "Note that David is an employee of ProMAX, and does not speak for the COW."

I speak on the Cow, not for the Cow, just as the rest of you do, only I've been doing it longer and more often than most of you, just not lately.

[Tim Wilson] "I'm going to take a guess and say he's speaking as an FCP user who like many folks here built much of his pre-ProMAX career on Apple's stuff."

Correct to a point Tim, cuz as you know, I built much of my pre-ProMAX career on the long ago end-of-lifed Discreet Edit*, and then on the end-of-lifed Final Cut Pro.

I have no patience or tolerance for the kind of treatment both companies have exhibited toward their loyal users, and I make no bones about that and make no excuses.

And, any adult here who still believes in David Pogue, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny also gets no respect from me.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 14, 2012 at 2:33:44 am

[David Roth Weiss] "And, any adult here who still believes in David Pogue, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny also gets no respect from me."

I think that's a bit unfair to Santa and the EB.


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 14, 2012 at 2:35:57 am

[Jim Giberti] "[David Roth Weiss] "And, any adult here who still believes in David Pogue, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny also gets no respect from me."

I think that's a bit unfair to Santa and the EB.
"


I fear I'm going to have to stand with Santa and the EB as well. There are times, David, that you go too far.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 14, 2012 at 6:38:33 am

[David Roth Weiss] "I speak on the Cow, not for the Cow, just as the rest of you do, only I've been doing it longer and more often than most of you, just not lately.
"


Welcome back, we've missed you

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 14, 2012 at 6:43:08 am

[David Roth Weiss] "And, any adult here who still believes in David Pogue, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny also gets no respect from me."

My 6 year old daughter read your post, she's now very upset. She really believed in David Pogue

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 11:57:30 pm

[Kevin Patrick] "What's odd is he seems to be representing both ProMax and the Creative COW."

I work for ProMAX, have been a card-carrying member of the Cow since its inception, and my opinions are entirely my own and represent neither of the above entities.

Now that we've cleared that up Kevin, if you'd like to actually discuss any of the substantive issues I brought up instead of the trivial samantic crap on which you're so focused, bring it on.

Meanwhile, are you rushing out to go buy the newly updated MacPro?

Or, are you waiting anxiously for the newly rumored 2013 update to the rumored 2012 update that never happened?

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 14, 2012 at 12:05:09 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "if you'd like to actually discuss any of the substantive issues I brought up"

What substantive issues did you bring up? Other than being disrespectful.

I can understand having a difference of opinion and discussing it. I don't see any justification for being disrespectful to poeple just because you aren't happy with Apple, or any other company. Even if you have justification for not being unhappy.


Return to posts index

Carsten Orlt
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 7:03:03 am

You are absolutely right David, Apple has dropped THAT ball yesterday.

If you need to support workflows like you are describing (5K Raw) it looks like Apple is not up to it and will not be for quite a while.

But I think (pure speculation of course) they are focusing on the other section of the professional market which doesn't need a Formula 1 machine (by the way how much is one of those monsters from Promax?).

For example a fellow editor just build a complete edit suite including everything (video and audio monitors, 12TB thunderbolt storage, software etc.) for a C300 workflow on an independent feature for $5000 based on an iMac and FCP7. Raw is great but needs serious money to make it work. Thinks might go 4K for cinema but I doubt for online or TV any time soon. Yes long term usage might not be guaranteed with 1080 but I haven't seen any clear indication that online or TV is really going 4K for more than a niche market.

Maybe Apple thinks that the much bigger group of young aspiring content producers of the future are the market they want to cater for. And when you look at what Windows 8 looks like one can clearly see that the old way of PC's is dying fast. This is not to say that companies like Promax will always have a market for the top end of the biggest and fastest.

The decision with buying or not buying Apple is always easy. Do they have what you need today? If not go somewhere else. If yes buy it. If you wait for what might be coming you will wait forever because there is always something else 'might be coming'.

Carsten


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 13, 2012 at 6:38:30 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Namby-pamby reactions to yet another example of Apple dropping the ball are laughable, and they prove P.T. Barnum was right, there really are suckers born every minute.
"


I know you don't think this is insulting, but it is.

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: You call this insight?
on Jun 14, 2012 at 12:11:22 am

[Steve Connor] "I know you don't think this is insulting, but it is."

Oh, the horror!!!

It was Apple who insulted you, I just brought it to your attention.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Others insight....
on Jun 13, 2012 at 12:19:55 pm

"I just don't think that Apple is ready to give up what they have worked so hard to achieve... the loyal support of the professional."

That ship has already sailed.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: Others insight....
on Jun 13, 2012 at 12:28:37 pm

"I just don't think that Apple is ready to give up what they have worked so hard to achieve... the loyal support of the professional. That ship has already sailed."

Agreed. If you were managing Apple, why would you wish to continue to support a tiny demanding market that want specialist low margin hardware and sophisticated high maintenance software?

For whatever personal conceit that Apple enjoyed by being the darling of creatives, they have been wildly successful since the long slow turning of their back to this insignificant sector.


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Others insight....
on Jun 13, 2012 at 3:32:24 pm

[Michael Gissing] ""I just don't think that Apple is ready to give up what they have worked so hard to achieve... the loyal support of the professional. That ship has already sailed."

Agreed. If you were managing Apple, why would you wish to continue to support a tiny demanding market that want specialist low margin hardware and sophisticated high maintenance software?

For whatever personal conceit that Apple enjoyed by being the darling of creatives, they have been wildly successful since the long slow turning of their back to this insignificant sector.
"


Agreed to all here. I'm blown away by the extremely needy tea-leaf reading over Apple's intentions for 2013. They currently have the worst workstations on the market and they don't care. That fact alone should be enough to wake any sleeper about what is what. And all of the "well, Apple has something truly glow-in-the-dark coming, and they don't want to mar its introduction by early half measures" is just sickening. "But why do they keep it alive? That MUST mean an even greater one is coming." Frankly, I think Apple's collective head is so far up its cloud that they don't even notice the dang thing. UNTIL, they hear enough noise to make them think "oh, yeah. That." So, they pathetically fake an upgrade. "No honey, I knew it was our anniversary... Look, see, I brought you the other half of this burrito." And when that didn't work so well, Apple got on the phone to one of its secretaries and told them to call us and promise to meet for lunch some day. Of course, the next couple of weeks are not good for Apple, so put your calendar away. But they WILL call us. Promise. And, really, we WILL do lunch.


Return to posts index

David Cherniack
Re: Others insight....
on Jun 13, 2012 at 4:53:12 pm

[Chris Harlan] " Frankly, I think Apple's collective head is so far up its cloud that they don't even notice the dang thing. UNTIL, they hear enough noise to make them think "oh, yeah. That." So, they pathetically fake an upgrade. "No honey, I knew it was our anniversary... Look, see, I brought you the other half of this burrito.""

Nicely put. This forum is fostering some good writing.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Others insight....
on Jun 13, 2012 at 5:06:13 pm

[Chris Harlan] " And all of the "well, Apple has something truly glow-in-the-dark coming, and they don't want to mar its introduction by early half measures" is just sickening."

Yes, the oft-repeated idea that Apple will take the time to make sure it's "just right" and that they ensure their products "just work" is marketing b.s.


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: Others insight....
on Jun 13, 2012 at 6:02:37 pm

[Chris Harlan] "And when that didn't work so well, Apple got on the phone to one of its secretaries and told them to call us and promise to meet for lunch some day. Of course, the next couple of weeks are not good for Apple, so put your calendar away. But they WILL call us. Promise. And, really, we WILL do lunch.
"


I really like this - not the behavior, the, gulp, analogy.

Arrogance blows whether it's a one-off or a big shiny corporation with a vision and a campus and stuff.

There's secrecy and there's negligence of, you know, those annoying little creative people that made you profitable enough to survive all those years to enjoy your iSuccess.

If Apple were an individual, what a wretched, ungrateful, thoughtless prick they turned out to be.

And to be clear, right now my company doesn't need to ramp up with all new towers (although we've poured six figures into then in the past), but I don't like to see so many of my friends who's livelihoods are dependent on them treated like rabble.

Apple is getting a whole Marie Antoinette groove on.

Look out for iKarma


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Others insight....
on Jun 13, 2012 at 6:12:14 pm

" Apple is getting a whole Marie Antoinette groove on."

The analogy (yikes!) that I've used before is that they're more like Robespierre, if after cutting off Marie's head, he'd cut off his own.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Dup
on Jun 13, 2012 at 3:34:20 pm

Dup


Return to posts index

Liam Hall
Re: Dup
on Jun 13, 2012 at 7:55:43 pm

I love Promax.

http://www.maximuscle.com/promax

But it does make you itch...

Liam Hall
Director/DoP/Editor
http://www.liamhall.net


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Dup
on Jun 13, 2012 at 9:00:49 pm

[Liam Hall] "I love Promax.

http://www.maximuscle.com/promax

But it does make you itch...
"


AND... Don't forget this amazing expose of the current and future Mac Pro line. It's amazingly colorful!

http://www.macpro.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]