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What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X

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Brett Sherman
What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 11, 2012 at 11:48:23 pm

It seems to me I was Apple's ideal target customer. A "closed" shop, meaning I don't have to pass projects around much. I'm also heavily invested in Apple hardware and am actually open-minded about FCP X's magnetic timeline and other features. However, I was waiting till this fall to make a switch with new hardware and software because of scheduled projects. Also, I wanted to see what happened with the Mac Pro. After all, it doesn't matter how good FCP X is if there is no workstation to run it on. Quite frankly I thought it was a no brainer for Apple to renew the Mac Pro line if they were truly serious about FCP X.

Now in the wake of this announcement I would say my probability of switching to FCP X dropped from 70% to 30%. Short of Apple announcing a road map of what they plan for their hardware, I'm not sure how they can retain my business. The current offerings don't work for me and I'm not waiting two years for a workstation with Thunderbolt. It makes me a little sad. But, I think it will push more people to Premiere which will give it more of a critical mass of professionals using it, which had given me pause.


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Gary Huff
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 11, 2012 at 11:50:42 pm

Not only that, but if you use Adobe Creative Cloud and end up switching to a Windows workstation, you don't have to purchase new software.


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Phil Hoppes
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:06:09 am

[Brett Sherman] "What the new Mac Pro"

Oxymoron


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Craig Seeman
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:08:57 am

It depends on what the MacPro offers you over their other options and why.
The market for MacPros are small (were small even when last introduced in 2010).
David Pogue says he was "assured" by an executive that MacPro and iMac will have major updates in 2013.
That's not good if true. When one includes the iMac, that leaves ALL desktop users in a lurch. It means even the iMac isn't getting updated to Ivy Bridge and USB3.

The self defeating thing is that FCPX likes lots of RAM and lots of GPU. So they've seem to have limited FCPX itself as a result.



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Frank Gothmann
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:19:52 am

And why 2013? Doesn't make any sense at all? Virtually all PC makers are shipping workstations with new Sandy Bridge Xeons.

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"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


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Andrew Kimery
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:25:00 am

[Frank Gothmann] "And why 2013? Doesn't make any sense at all? Virtually all PC makers are shipping workstations with new Sandy Bridge Xeons."

I assume that the MBPs, MBAs and iDevices were the top priority so the desktop machine dev got delayed. I've read that Apple doesn't like expanding and contracting its workforce so they just move people around internally to work on priority projects as opposed to bringing outside workers in to help out during busy times.




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Craig Seeman
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:29:31 am

[Andrew Kimery] "the desktop machine dev got delayed."

I can understand that the MacPro would be a major ordeal given Thunderbolt and GPU integration and case redesign but that wouldn't have the case for iMac with Ivy Bridge and USB3.



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Phil Hoppes
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:51:35 am

[Craig Seeman] "I can understand that the MacPro would be a major ordeal given Thunderbolt and GPU integration and case redesign but that wouldn't have the case for iMac with Ivy Bridge and USB3"

No, they get the board design directly from Intel. A bend shim and mutilate and there is no reason, in 6 months time, with a minimal staff of people that they could not spin a new version. What you see is a spin that was done by a marketing dept not an engineering dept.


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Craig Seeman
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:59:17 am

[Phil Hoppes] " A bend shim and mutilate and there is no reason, in 6 months time, with a minimal staff of people that they could not spin a new version."

Apple may not want that kind of "compromise" although it would be a "temp" fix. I think they'll head for a new case design on the MacPro.

I don't get the iMac though. It would have been nothing to update CPU and add USB3 and maybe consider GPU as well. Those aren't fundamental changes as they would do in replacing the MacPro.



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Gary Huff
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 1:11:18 am

[Craig Seeman] "Apple may not want that kind of "compromise" although it would be a "temp" fix. I think they'll head for a new case design on the MacPro."

Yes, the company that gave us the iPhone 4 antenna and the yellowing iMac displays won't want to "compromise" on hardware...


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Herb Sevush
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 7:26:13 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I can understand that the MacPro would be a major ordeal given Thunderbolt and GPU integration and case redesign"

OF course they'v already had over a year to develop it. This major ordeal hasn't been too much for HP or Dell to overcome. This is further proof that dealing with a company that treats it's prop app's customers like an afterthought is not a wise decision.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 7:33:23 pm

[Herb Sevush] "This major ordeal hasn't been too much for HP or Dell to overcome."

They haven't overcome. They haven't even addressed it. They don't support Thunderbolt at this point.

[Herb Sevush] "This is further proof that dealing with a company that treats it's prop app's customers like an afterthought is not a wise decision."

The MBP Retina is decidedly a PRO laptop. I don't think a typical "consumer" will spend between $2200 and $2800 (and more with BTO) for a laptop. Nor would consumers care about two Thunderbolt ports given what current Thunderbolt peripherals do and cost. Apple is decidedly support Pros. This is superb for "mobile" Pros in both Photography and Video.

This has nothing to do with desktops though. Pros will have to wait for 2013 without an viable interim update for either desktop. So much for the iMac being an interim "Pro" alternative.



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Tim Wilson
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 8:08:28 pm

[Craig Seeman] "[Herb Sevush] "This major ordeal hasn't been too much for HP or Dell to overcome."

They haven't overcome. They haven't even addressed it. They don't support Thunderbolt at this point."


Neither does the Mac Pro, does it?

As others have pointed out, the motherboards exist. I wouldn't be shocked if HP, Dell and ProMAX ALL have Thunderbolt before the Mac Pro does.

Of course, if the Mac Pro already does, I apologize. There's an awful lot of new specs to wade though, so I may just have missed it.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



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Chris Harlan
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 9:01:57 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Of course, if the Mac Pro already does, I apologize. There's an awful lot of new specs to wade though, so I may just have missed it."

ROTFL!


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Herb Sevush
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 8:09:07 pm

[Craig Seeman] "The MBP Retina is decidedly a PRO laptop"

All right I am exposing my ignorance here, explain to me why someone who uses broadcast monitors should care about the retina display?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve Connor
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 8:12:58 pm

[Herb Sevush] "All right I am exposing my ignorance here, explain to me why someone who uses broadcast monitors should care about the retina display?
"


Because, I would imagine that a lot of Pros, who don't do Broadcast, don't use broadcast monitors.

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 8:32:53 pm

[Herb Sevush] "All right I am exposing my ignorance here, explain to me why someone who uses broadcast monitors should care about the retina display?"

For me, the retina has nothing to do with broadcast monitoring. If I decide to do this thunderbolt situation it's probably going to be a T-Tap or ioXT.

What the Retina is doing for me is getting me the equivalent of a current 30" monitor in a 15" form factor.

I am also curious as to what the HDMI spits out and it that can be converted to DVI, or if it's TV Hz only.


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Craig Seeman
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 8:44:39 pm

[Herb Sevush] "All right I am exposing my ignorance here, explain to me why someone who uses broadcast monitors should care about the retina display?
"


Because sometimes you don't have a broadcast monitor in the field. Those who've tested also found that the color accuracy in color sync very closely matches broadcast monitor color accuracy. Seeing pixel accurate display in the viewer helps. A professional photographer will also appreciate the display.

The excerpt below isn't about retina display but it does have to do with monitor accuracy and certainly higher resolution helps when looking at fine detail and screen real estate on a single monitor portable workstation.

http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/post-production-mastering-tips...

For example, the software scopes in FCP X and Apple’s ColorSync technology are quite good. Tools like Blackmagic Design Ultrascope, HP Dreamcolor or Apple Cinema Displays do provide accurate monitoring in lower-cost situations. I’ve compared the FCP X Viewer on an iMac to the output displayed on a broadcast monitor fed by an AJA IoXT. I find that both match surprisingly well. Ultimately it gets down to trusting an editor who knows how to get the best out of any given system.



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Craig Seeman
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:26:56 am

[Frank Gothmann] "And why 2013? Doesn't make any sense at all? Virtually all PC makers are shipping workstations with new Sandy Bridge Xeons."

That makes little sense to me either. Even if they couldn't add Thunderbolt, I'd think Sandy Bridge, new GPU, 6Gb SATA, PCIe3 would have been a reasonable speed bump.
And I can't see not updating the iMacs to Ivy Bridge and USB3 now.



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Frank Gothmann
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:30:46 am

It makes little sense unless going all mobile is what they want and that's what they're pushing.

------
"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


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Brett Sherman
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 12:33:38 am

It just makes me wonder why they even bothered with FCP X to begin with. I would say this raises the question of whether they will kill it eventually. One might suspect that there is a strategy at Apple. However, my suspicion is that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing and there actually is no cohesive strategy for the pro market. And as a result they are going to eventually kill the pro apps without fully intending to do so. The take away, though, is that they simply do not have a commitment to the pro apps for me to wager on Apple for the future. 2013 is no sure bet for a Mac Pro update, and I'm not going to attempt to eek another year(or two really) out of my 2007 Mac Pro. It's just mind-boggling. After all the man hours that went into FCP X, they're going to kill it because they can't be bothered to spend a much smaller amount of man hours updating the Mac Pro.



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Gary Huff
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 1:12:32 am

[Brett Sherman] "fter all the man hours that went into FCP X, they're going to kill it because they can't be bothered to spend a much smaller amount of man hours updating the Mac Pro."

They are not going to kill it. They are going to slowly, but surely, move it towards iOS.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 1:28:59 am

[Craig Seeman] "I can understand that the MacPro would be a major ordeal given Thunderbolt and GPU integration and case redesign but that wouldn't have the case for iMac with Ivy Bridge and USB3."

Maybe designing all the new laptops (especially the next gen MBP) took the lion's share of their hardware guys so even an 'easier' upgrade like the iMac just wasn't in the cards. Plus w/the rumors of a redesigned iPhone 5 out there that's even more hardware guys potentially tied up. I think Apple's priorities are iDevices, laptops, iMacs, towers and w/a fixed workforce that means the lower tier stuff just gets ignored.


[Brett Sherman] "It just makes me wonder why they even bothered with FCP X to begin with. I would say this raises the question of whether they will kill it eventually. One might suspect that there is a strategy at Apple. However, my suspicion is that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing and there actually is no cohesive strategy for the pro market."

I think it's much simpler than that. Apple just isn't targeting the higher end/bigger budget (whatever you want to call it) customer like they have in the past. Apple is making what they want to make, selling a ton of it, and if they aren't making what you need then go someplace else. I think that's Apple's mindset, I think it has been for decades, and it's working out really well for them. The big difference now is that what Apple wants to make, and what you want Apple to make, aren't overlapping as much anymore.

I don't see them killing FCPX because there are a millions of people that find it much more approachable than other NLEs and those people are the primary audience for FCPX. Trust, Apple doesn't need to sell FCPX higher-end pros for it to be a success in Apple's eyes. Higher end pros would be mashed potatoes, not the main course (hell, we might only be the gravy...).


-Andrew




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Keith Koby
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 1:12:14 pm

Apple also rolled out intel in the portable line first (January-February of 06) and didn't get the MacPro shipping until August 06 (~6 months later).

Not that an exact comparison can be made here, but I think that it shouldn't be overlooked. The new direction is retina oriented. The other product lines will follow in the next 6 mos or so (2013).

It is strange to see that people who know computers so well get so upset about this. The kind of processing available on the new laptop is astounding. The software just started to catch up to the hardware that is available, anyway. Take the development that is apparent in the retina mbp as an indicator of what you'll see in the next imac and macpro.

Keith Koby
Sr. Director Post-Production Engineering
iNDEMAND NETWORKS
Howard TV!/Movies On Demand/iNDEMAND Pay-Per-View/iNDEMAND 3D


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Andrew Kimery
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 3:44:36 pm

[Keith Koby] " Take the development that is apparent in the retina mbp as an indicator of what you'll see in the next imac and macpro."

Besides the 'new' ports (USB 3, HDMI, ThB) nothing about the retina MBP would translate well into a MP, IMO. Retina display? Obviously N/A to a headless tower. 758gig of non-upgradeable Flash memory as the boot drive on a MP? Not really appealing. Non-upgradable RAM? Not really appealing. No Ethernet port? Again, not really appealing.

The retina MBP certain packs a lot into a very small space but the concessions made to do so don't belong in a desktop workstation.


-Andrew




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Keith Koby
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 4:00:33 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Retina display? Obviously N/A to a headless tower."

Why do you say that? I tend to think that everything they make is headed that way. It's just not possible with today's thunderbolt connection and today's production technologies for displays nor for graphics cards to power.

I'm just trying to read between the lines. "Later in 2013" starts making sense for that kind of transition, no?

Keith Koby
Sr. Director Post-Production Engineering
iNDEMAND NETWORKS
Howard TV!/Movies On Demand/iNDEMAND Pay-Per-View/iNDEMAND 3D


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Andrew Kimery
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 5:26:35 pm

My bad, I misread what you were saying. Yeah, I agree that retina will eventually be across all their product lines.




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Jim Wiseman
Re: What the new Mac Pro means for those evaluating FCP X
on Jun 12, 2012 at 10:06:10 pm

Getting back to the original subject, here is the story from Forbes confirming new Mac Pros and iMacs in 2013: Apple Says New Models, Designs for iMac, Mac Pro In Works, Due in 2013

http://www.forbes.com/sites/connieguglielmo/2012/06/12/apple-says-new-model...

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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