FORUMS: list search recent posts

Goodbye FCP

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Will Griffith
Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:59:47 pm

Moving the shop to Avid & daVinci.

Not sure what to replace Final Cut Server with.. but I guess no big hurry.
It should run fine with numerous formats for the foreseeable future.

Sad day indeed, but new opportunities await.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:14:21 pm

CatDV?


Return to posts index

Will Griffith
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:16:24 pm

We have it and I like it.. but it does not have the same functionality we require.

Maybe the CatDV folks are listening... I hope.


Return to posts index


Eric Santiago
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:29:51 pm

you dont have FCP anymore?
can you afford just to move just like that from one platform to another?
damn Id have to write up a 30 page explanation to do that where I work.
oh well, FCPX seems to be working for what Im using it for.
just in case, welcome to Avid.
Were an Avid facility.
Here's a tip.
Dont update the software until a few weeks reading their Avid Forum :P


Return to posts index

Will Griffith
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:35:10 pm

I preferred Apple's solutions.. but hey do not offer those solutions anymore.

Not sure how better to explain it.


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:44:49 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Here's a tip.
Dont update the software until a few weeks reading their Avid Forum :P"


Sound advice for any software - let others shake the bugs out first.

While it's easy to roll back a version on an Avid, and your projects are backwards compatible (or the bins at least), it's always better to check the forums a week or two after release to actually upgrade.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index


Chris Conlee
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:28:31 pm

I can still open a project from an AVBV avid from the 90's, without making it so it can't be reopened on the original machine. A testament to the thought that went into Avid's original database and project structure. A project is a folder at the finder level and every single bin within the project is a new file. This is why Avid excels at shared projects, everybody has read/write access to the project (a folder) but only the first person who opens a bin (a file) has read/write everybody else has read only. Very elegant.

Chris


Return to posts index

Chris Conlee
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:23:05 pm

Yeah, the 5.0 release was a bit of a hiccup. But at least Avid starts releasing fixes IMMEDIATELY upon release of a product. They'll do patch releases as soon as they get something fixed. There were something like 9 fixes to MC 5 before they released 5.5 a year later, which is a very strong release. They listen, and they know when they've screwed the pooch on something.

They actually have company representatives actively engaged in their forum as well.


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:56:38 pm

[Will Griffith] "Moving the shop to Avid & daVinci.

Why would you switch platforms? I assume FCP 7 meets your current needs, or you'd have switched long ago. That means you're presumably switching based on future expectations, yes?

In that context, it's worth pointing out that Final Cut Pro X is a next-generation video editing application, newly rewritten from the ground up. Yes, it's missing a few key features in its first release. But Apple will have a far easier time adding those features back in than Avid will have modernizing Media Composer to the same extent. If you're looking for a platform for the next decade, it's probably not a brilliant idea to bet against Apple right now.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index


Will Griffith
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:06:31 pm

Discontinuing Final Cut Server and providing no roadmap or alternative
was the last straw for me. That is the reason.

As far as the "next genration" We heard that about Apple two years ago.. and we got FCPx.
Maybe in a year or two it will be something.. or maybe not.


Return to posts index

Matt Callac
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:10:26 pm

[Chris Kenny] "Why would you switch platforms? I assume FCP 7 meets your current needs, or you'd have switched long ago. That means you're presumably switching based on future expectations, yes?

In that context, it's worth pointing out that Final Cut Pro X is a next-generation video editing application, newly rewritten from the ground up. Yes, it's missing a few key features in its first release. But Apple will have a far easier time adding those features back in than Avid will have modernizing Media Composer to the same extent. If you're looking for a platform for the next decade, it's probably not a brilliant idea to bet against Apple right now."


Chris, It's not worth arguing over. People are going to see what they want to see at this point. Responding to people who are threatening to change editors is just wasting your time and resources. You aren't going to change their minds.

-mattyc


Return to posts index

Will Griffith
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:27:49 pm

He could change my mind if he could provide a past example that demonstrates Apple's desire to be in post production and professional products for the long haul.


Return to posts index


Chris Kenny
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:43:11 pm

[Will Griffith] "He could change my mind if he could provide a past example that demonstrates Apple's desire to be in post production and professional products for the long haul."

They bragged about broadcast and post facility NLE market share at the event where FCP X was announced. Had Apple not been interested in the pro market in the long run, they wouldn't have bothered with a long and no doubt expensive rewrite of Final Cut in the first place.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Will Griffith
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:49:10 pm

[Chris Kenny] "Had Apple not been interested in the pro market in the long run, they wouldn't have bothered with a long and no doubt expensive rewrite of Final Cut in the first place."

I will agree it was long.. but it is yet to be extensive since half of it is missing. :)


Return to posts index

Andrew Corneles
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 6:39:25 pm


They bragged about broadcast and post facility NLE market share at the event where FCP X was announced. Had Apple not been interested in the pro market in the long run, they wouldn't have bothered with a long and no doubt expensive rewrite of Final Cut in the first place.


I hate to say anything to one person specifically, but you really have been coming out against people that are upset -
This is NOT an expensive rewrite of Final Cut. it is iMovie Pro.
Please open up iMovie and then FCPx, and tell us how different it is.

This program is not "Final Cut", it WILL NOT open legacy projects.
to defend this release is just ridiculous. they have had 4+ years to overhaul FCP and they didn't do it. Maybe this will be great for you,
but to come out in every thread and argue with people that are wondering what the hell apple is thinking about this, or dare to say they're leaving a company (that has LITERALLY ended support for their livelyhood FCPServer, COLOR, DVDSP, and FINAL CUT ) is just silly.


Return to posts index


Chris Kenny
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 23, 2011 at 12:21:52 am

[Andrew Corneles] "This is NOT an expensive rewrite of Final Cut. it is iMovie Pro. "

That oft-repeated criticism is fundamentally meaningless. Does FCP X share some UI similarities with iMovie? Sure. Because Apple rolled out new editing UI first in iMovie, where the stakes were lower. Does FCP X lack some workflow features at the moment? Yes. But this has nothing to do with its relationship to iMovie. What, specifically, is this "It's iMovie Pro" line intended to actually say?

[Andrew Corneles] "they have had 4+ years to overhaul FCP and they didn't do it. "

What do you mean by "overhaul FCP" here? Do... something to the old Carbon/QuickTime codebase? What, exactly? The features everyone wanted -- 64-bit, strong multicore and GPU support, a fix for longstanding QuickTime-related issues, etc. -- were effectively impossible to implement on the old codebase. It was obvious they had to do a rewrite if they wanted to stay in the game. This time last year, it was the skeptics insisting they wouldn't do one, and the "fans" saying they would. Now the skeptics seem to be arguing they shouldn't have?

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Chris Conlee
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:41:18 pm

On the other hand, Avid is making incremental changes to address the needs and desires of the new breed of mouse-based (ie: FCP) editors out there, while trying to appease their long-time customers. They're not getting is 100% correct, but they're trying. The next step is a 64 bit engine for speed and memory. But bear in mind, Avid will already play and cut .r3d natively, no transcoding needed. It's realtime engine is one of the best out there. Adobe is making a big deal about their Mercury playback engine, but I can get more formats and more effects to play natively on MC5.5 than I can in CS5.5.

I'd argue that Avid doesn't NEED to make the kind of changes that Apple also didn't NEED to make but just did. Avid's metadata engine is already incredibly strong, they just didn't make as big a marketing deal out of it as Apple. They also invented the compressed HD codec for NLE editing as a matter of course, because their customers needed it. Then a year later Apple released ProRes and the world went crazy like God had just shined his graces on the editing world.

Avid knows what their professional customers need and they work to deliver.


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 4:02:49 pm

[Chris Conlee] "I'd argue that Avid doesn't NEED to make the kind of changes that Apple also didn't NEED to make but just did. "

But that's precisely my point -- Apple just did it. The holy grail is a fully-modern foundation and workflow features supporting a robust ecosystem. Having done the former, and being virtually assured of selling enough copies to make the latter happen as soon as they add the required features, Apple is probably 85% of the way there with the work they've done at this point.

Apple prefers fast transitions to slow incremental ones. We saw this with e.g. Microsoft's approach to transitioning to a modern OS (took basically six years) vs. Apple's (took about two). It's more intensely painful in the short run, but it leads to a less compromised product. (I know the Avid fans will reject this out of hand, but to folks who haven't been using it for years, Media Composer, while it sure does have a lot of features, has kind of turned into a confusing tangle of a program these days.)

About the only way it's possible for Apple to not have a significant advantage in the coming years is if they really do decide to exit the high-end market, and e.g. never implement video I/O or features for interfacing with external apps. But I'd consider that extremely unlikely. First, because it doesn't make sense to come this far and then stop, and secondly, because we already have some specific indications that it's not the case.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Chris Conlee
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 5:16:36 pm

Fair enough. As I've indicated in other posts, Avid is my preferred NLE by a wide margin, but I own licensed copies of FCS 3 and CS5.5. I'll also buy FCP X at some point so I have all the tools. As a long time computer geek, I find the whole thing very interesting.

I gotta say, though, I'd rather be dependent upon Avid solutions right now than FCP solutions. Maybe the long term will prove me wrong. Who knows.

The thing Apple did do was show the rest of the world a bunch of cool things, and set the bar in terms of speed and background rendering etc. I'd be surprised to not see some of that creep into other apps that maintain the editing paradigm that people know, use, love, and feel didn't need to be changed.

We'll see.

Chris


Return to posts index

Gary Askham
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:11:30 pm

The only decision I have made is that I am not going to make any decisions yet.


Although I can say I am definitely not going to be upgrading our 18 edit suites to FCP X in the forseeable future. But I'm also not thinking about throwing our MacPro's and Xsan out the window.

------------------------
FCP and Avid Technical Support
Air Post Production
Shoreditch - London


Return to posts index

Buddy Couch
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 5:53:03 pm

You guys are hilarious. Have you never ever been through a 1.0 release? DO NOT BUY FCPX yet. Wait 6 months or so and then make the move. Right now they have what they want, a very healthy population of testers and such. Its easy to say, well they should have tested it in house for all foreseeable problems. Thats just not realistic with a program this complex. In addition, I think their point was for you to get used to the interface and then the more advanced tools will make their way into software. IT IS NOT AN UPGRADE TO FCP7. Would you guys please get that out of your mind.

I want everyone to take a DEEP breath and realize that your FCP7 didn't quit working at 5:30am yesterday morning. Your brain told you it did due to FCPX coming out. Double click on it and I bet it loads up.

Who in their right minds would EVEN upgrade their software from a 1.5 to 2.0 when major projects were on the line. If you raised your hand, then you need to stick to lining up film clips and leave the software to the programmers. The simple fact you guys are going ape shit bonkers right now tells me that either A: You are just a general complainer or B: you have never been through a 1.0 release or C: Part of both, which in that case you definitely need to roll your belly out from under desk, pick it up so that you can breathe in deep because your brain is deprived of oxygen.


Return to posts index

Will Griffith
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 6:03:51 pm

[Buddy Couch] "I want everyone to take a DEEP breath and realize that your FCP7 didn't quit working at 5:30am yesterday morning."

Nobody is saying it did. FCP 7 will be running here for some time.
However this IS a response to years of Apple behaving the way they do.


Return to posts index

Buddy Couch
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 6:29:52 pm

I work for a company that makes 3D modeling software and a wide range of components that make it up come from other companies. I am not saying what you professional editors do is simple by any means, however in comparison to software design / implementation on the scale of Final Cut Pro X. Its like comparing learning your ABC's with writing string theory down on paper in mathematical form.

I am NOT an apple fanboi or whatever you like to call it. I am just saying relax and realize that Apple is working hard on addressing your concerns. Do you seriously think they are this blind?

I am disappointed with the software myself in regards to rendering. Why is it still not flawless like Vegas Pro is. I do not have to render each time I apply an effect in Vegas. I can even see my effects on the fly in IMOVIE instantly without render. What is the deal with this "PRO" software having to render each time. FCP7 did it constantly and FCPX does it still in background. /gasp


Return to posts index

Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 22, 2011 at 6:54:14 pm

[Buddy Couch] "I am NOT an apple fanboi or whatever you like to call it. I am just saying relax and realize that Apple is working hard on addressing your concerns. Do you seriously think they are this blind?"

You know what, since you are so tirelessly defending apple,its about time you back up you statement with some facts. Because this BS theory full of assumptions is not working for us anymore.

Has somebody from apple written to you or spoken with you. What is it that you know, that we already don't know?



Sohrab

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: Goodbye FCP
on Jun 23, 2011 at 6:18:12 am

[Buddy Couch] "I am just saying relax and realize that Apple is working hard on addressing your concerns. Do you seriously think they are this blind? "

Blind? No. Wearing blinders? Seems so...

Deaf? Certainly appears that way.

Dumb? As in the sense of being mute... Absolutely!


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]