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FCP switchers and PPro 6

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Steve Connor
FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 5, 2012 at 12:24:08 pm

I know a lot of us have been testing PPro 6 and I have to say I like it a lot but has anyone here made the switch from FCP Classic for their commercial work and if so I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


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Tim Vaughan
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 5, 2012 at 1:00:42 pm

I have/do. The integration between the suite of products is really great overall, and Pr CS6 seems to be stable and a lot of previous issues have been resolved. Playback was a huge issue in 5.5 and below on my 2008 Mac Pro, --even when using only 1 codec and movie on the timeline. CS6 handles p2 media playback like it should (which is part of my workflow) and the moving back and forth via dynamic link is as good as it gets. I'm thrilled with this product overall. There can always be a few tweaks here and there; but coming from FCP 7, production premium fits the bill and then some.
To be honest, I was ticked at Apple's fcpx decision. It meant having to make purchases rather than upgrades on some things and forced a lot of testing and changing of the mindset. It really opened the eyes that any one company should not be trusted as the base for your business model. I now have the ability to run down to the local big box store and get a cheap machine and know that the software will run on it, and when needed purchase the more powerful machines to do the daily work. Funny thing is, by Apple changing their main product in which the studio was based, I'm now not bound to Apple in any way except personal choice of what I want to use.
But that's just my opinion....:)

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer
Apple Monitors, Flanders Scientific Broadcast, Panasonic AG-AF100
Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Frank Gothmann
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 5, 2012 at 1:58:38 pm

I have, not for everything, but I have/am using it for regular day-to-day jobs now, together with Edius, depending on the type of work..
What do I think. It is a big step forward from CS5.5, it like it a lot, promise of greater things to come plus I feel I am in good hands with Adobe as far as the future is concerned.
Downside: some things are still rough and need fixing, tweaking and refinement, audio workflows are still driving me absolutely nuts and there are some bugs.
It's hard to understand virtually no NLE is capable of implementing this in a sane way. Exporting stems is hell on earth, especially when working with modified frame rates. FCP was golden and sooooo easy for these things. The only NLE that is halfway capable of doing this is Edius although it, too, requires one extra step compared to FCP.

------
"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


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Herb Sevush
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 5, 2012 at 2:44:55 pm

[Frank Gothmann] " I have/am using it for regular day-to-day jobs now, together with Edius, depending on the type of work.."

Where are the limitations with Edius? For me it's the multi-cam implementation, which does not lend itself to my workflow, but I was wondering where you see it's strengths and weakness's.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Frank Gothmann
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 5, 2012 at 4:30:02 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Where are the limitations with Edius? For me it's the multi-cam implementation, which does not lend itself to my workflow, but I was wondering where you see it's strengths and weakness's.
"


Strengths:
- absolutely rock solid video io. Broadcast monitoring and capturing is as solid as an Avid with Nitris hardware. It's the only other NLE I know that seems to have zero latency. There are no hickups, glitches, delays, stuttering or anything like that. The timeline behaves like a butter, no matter what is on it and how you interact with it.
- has its own intermediate codec (HQX) that you use either in an avi container or mxf container (and, in 6.5 probably due this month) also in a Quicktime container which makes the codec cross platform. It's 10bit, does hd and sd unlike DnxHD, you can push compression to go beyond HDCAM-SR quality and it's freaking fast and full on multi-threaded. Oh, and it's free unlike Cineform.
- It eats everything native and it does it well. Quicktime, AVC, AVI, MXF (v. 6.06 RED), mix and match framerates, resolutions, it doesn't bog down and blink an eye with lots of effects and layers on the timeline. And it does it all without Cuda.
- 64bit wav support (just like Vegas) in- and out and full broadcast wav support. This is my saving grace for audio workflows. It only exports interleaved .wav. If it could export stems I'd be in heaven.
- Can downscale HD using Lanzcos (again without CUDA) so hd to sd actually looks ok.
- Exports and renders are just extremely fast. It is the fastet NLE out there. Rendering to HQX utilized all 24 cores on our HP at 90 - 95 per cent. It's really the dream NLE for powerful workstations as it actually utilized the power and leaves nothing idle.
- Great trim tools, very flexible and beautiful UI that is functional and customizable to your heart's content. Can be driven either by mouse or shortcut people very well.
- Lots of concepts very similar to the way FCP thought, ie. setting up sequences, projects, audio etc.
- native stereoscopic editing (as of 6.5)
- Collaborative workflows just like Avid/Unity with its own shared storage environment, editors working on the same projects and media management software.
- AAF export that allows transcoding to unified codec.
- Very active community with participation from Grass Valley guys all the time.

Downsides:
- Video IO only with its own hardware (which is probably why it works so well, the hw is only for Edius and there is probably also acceleration taking place with HQX as the system load is next to nothing during capture). However, you can also use a BMD card for monitoring now.
- Not all that many plug-ins from third parties available. Magic Bullet Looks etc. works via an After Effects bridge. New Blue and other stuff is available, too but nowhere near as many as for FCP or FCP X. I am not using all that many so I don't really care but Neat for Edius would be nice.
- Doesn't mix 5.1 or 7.1 (but it can export multichannel audio, it just doesn't allow any surround panning in its current version).

All in all, it's a extremely capable app. It has a big news media background so its written for 24/7 hardcore editing operations, fast and stable turnovers.

------
"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


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Herb Sevush
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 6, 2012 at 3:50:38 pm

Frank -

Thanks for the reply. I looked at it last year after the X debacle and liked it except that the mutlicam is a bit limited for what I do, although not totally unworkable. When I make the switch over to Windows next year I will give it a deeper look.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Mike Molenda
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 5, 2012 at 3:29:11 pm

I probably started dabbling in CS5 about a year ago. Coming from FCP 7, the first time I used it, I noticed a definite uptick in speed, smoothness, and stability. That was enough to get me hooked. This was at a point I'd come to expect an "out of memory" or "general" error to force a restart, or an outright crash, of FCP 7 at least once per edit session.

Over the course of the year, I started using it more frequently in place of FCP at my day job, where we have both FCP 7 and CS5 installed. I ventured more into native workflows and dynamic linking, and grew to prefer cutting on Premiere to FCP. At this point I was running Media Composer 6 trials as well, looking for either an interim or temporary solution while waiting for FCP X to mature into something that seemed like it would fit my needs.

Eventually I bought a copy of CS5.5 for freelance work on my home machine. It became my primary NLE, and now I rarely launch FCP except to use it to roundtrip an XML sequence from Premiere through Color.

Now I'm comfortably into using CS6. I've got two freelance projects cooking in it at the moment, one RED-shot short film, and one 5D-shot multicam promo piece for an event band. I'm really digging a lot of the new enhancements. R3D and H.264 QT performance is exceptionally smooth, especially on a machine that is old as dirt. I'm using CS5 as my primary NLE at work, cutting AVCHD-and-XDCAM-shot educational videos. Occasionally going back to FCP 7 to ingest HDV tape.

Is Premiere perfect? Certainly not. There are enough annoying bugs and quirks that I hardly miss the annoying bugs and quirks in FCP at all. I've had a few errors, a few crashes, but no outright showstoppers so far. Overall I enjoy using the software, and it definitely gets the job done for me.


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Chris Harlan
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 5, 2012 at 3:50:11 pm

[Mike Molenda] " There are enough annoying bugs and quirks that I hardly miss the annoying bugs and quirks in FCP at all."

LOL


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Chris Harlan
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 5, 2012 at 3:48:11 pm

[Steve Connor] "I know a lot of us have been testing PPro 6 and I have to say I like it a lot but has anyone here made the switch from FCP Classic for their commercial work and if so I'd be interested in your thoughts.
"


I cut a broadcast spot with it last week. It felt very natural to do. In many ways it does feel like a logical extension of FCS with some nice Avid DNA sprinkled in. It did make me think some about how remarkable FCS is/was, but part of that might be my unfamiliarity with the subtler functioning of Pr6. I should add that their were a number of things that I liked better than anything available in FCP 7. The UI stands out particularly. I decided to do most of the cutting on a Macbook Pro, and then finish on my 8 Core. The amazing amount of flexibility you have in configuring your workspace, and the ease with which it can be re-arranged, is unrivaled by anything else i've ever seen. And then, the ease with which that can easily expand out into a multi-monitor experience is just terrific. Of course, I like the chaotic, multi-window, put-anything-where-you-want-it experience. For some people that gets too cluttered. For me, its freedom, and is one of the main reasons I was drawn to FCP Legend, and one the reasons I find X a bit Gulag-like.


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Ben Taylor
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 6, 2012 at 11:00:31 am

I think PPro 6 is a work of pure beauty, I prefer the interface and the flexibility you have with the program in comparison with FCP.


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Bret Williams
Re: FCP switchers and PPro 6
on Jun 6, 2012 at 6:19:44 am

YOU CAN COPY AND PASTE KEYFRAMES!!!!!!!


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