FORUMS: list search recent posts

This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Jeremy Garchow
This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 12:29:48 am

Pretty fascinating.







Good luck to us all.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 12:42:58 am

Could that BE more boring? Lordy...they needed an editor to edit that.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 12:56:51 am

Talk to me, Goose.


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 1:01:06 am

Note the "magnetic timeline" (3:24). ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 1:15:16 am

Besides, there were no editors to edit it yet because they hadn't actually released Media Composer.

Showing yet again that the egg always comes before the chicken. This video lays the egg. Chickens followed, eventually coming home to roost.


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 1:17:08 am

And Oliver, re: the magnetic timeline, the happiest day of my Avid newbie editing life was when I figured out how to turn that damn thing off! LOL


Return to posts index


Bret Williams
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 3:34:55 am

Am I the only one that remembers the first thing we did when we started a project? Insert 30 minutes of black! You had to put a frame of something on the timeline, then insert a buttload of slug. THEN, and only then was the thing useable.

My first baby was the video cube in 1993. We were taking it to a satellite feed once a week and nobody ever questioned the quality. 12:1 Wavelet compression! Looked about like AVR75/77 though. No rendering required either. When I started using Media 100 and then the Avid 3 years later, I thought I was in the stone age by comparison.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 1:17:52 am

Totally trackless. Should Avid call "first!"?

I found it far from boring (although it's the second time today I posted something that Shane said was boring. Maybe I should take the hint).

23 years ago, I'm sure that was magic.

I was too young to work legally.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 1:23:36 am

A couple of years ago Matt Feury (Avid) dug one of these up and showed it at the NAB Avid user party. It actually booted and launched faster than most modern software.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Jeremy Garchow
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 1:37:50 am

[Oliver Peters] " It actually booted and launched faster than most modern software."

Talking to more experienced software managers, I find this is always the case. They were extremely self sufficient and tight pieces of code instead of tacked on module after module. Also, had to run on a few bits of ram.

My mom's 9600 baud modem was a screaming good time on AOL, though. :)


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 1:25:58 am

Sorry. I had to work with the Muppet bloopers, and while some were fun, findin ones that were good enough for a promo was challenging, to say the least.

And Tim, they edited this on another edit system no doubt, with people skillled in how to use it. But I think stale demos were a "thing" back then. We spice them up a bit lately. Well, some of us anyway.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 2:04:23 am

I was kidding about computers and editing. Plenty of us are old enough to STILL have spent more of our careers editing NOT on computers than on computers. That's me for sure.

It's interesting to see how the values of these kinds of things change. Look at trailers for classic films. They're 4 and 5 minutes long, and often had entire scenes. Nothing very edit-y about them.....

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index


Chris Conlee
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 11:37:26 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I was too young to work legally."

I wasn't too young to work, legally or otherwise, but the $100K-ish pricetag was big rich for me...

Chris


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 4:07:09 pm

Actually, the whole thing looks like a "souped down" version of iMovie.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index

Greg Andonian
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 2:52:23 am

I thought Premiere's new ability to trim right in the program window was really really cool until I saw this video. Welcome to 1989, Adobe. ;)

______________________________________________
"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


Return to posts index


Michael Gissing
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 4:57:43 am

And what was the price of MC1?


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 6:05:15 am

[Michael Gissing] "And what was the price of MC1?"

A lot less than you'd think. I couldn't find a reference that I felt was reliable for v.1, but by 1993, Models 210 (unbundled) and 220 (with Mac IIci) were $15,000 and $24,900 respectively.

They started getting expensive once you added hardware. (Offline film at the resolutions that Film Composer originally supported was computing intensive -- hence the brute force of the Mac IIci and its 6 slots -- but not THAT intensive.)

Things got interesting around 1995, when Media 100's Vincent and Avid's ABVB (Avid Broadcast Video Board) started duking it out: $30K vs. $90K.

Duke it out they did, with dueling lawsuits. The first shot was fired by Media 100, whose suit was dismissed with prejudice. I don't remember what happened with the Avid suit.

I also don't remember what the complete configuration of the ABVB Media Composer looked like (surely a breakout box, yes? Where did the configured workstations/storage come in?), but by the time I decked my Media 100 out with a computer, a modest amount of RAM and a small array (27GB - 18 for video and the 9 for music, graphics, etc), I was in for around $50,000.

By 1999, Avid dropped the ABVB to $49-ish if I'm remembering right....

...but to get to your original question, you could have gotten a Mac IIci, a Targa 2000 card and Adobe Premiere for around $20,000, which indeed I did -- not far off of the Avid price.

Of course part of the reason for that expensive Premiere system was paying $5000 for 8MB (that's MEGABYTES) of RAM. I kept the 8 SIMMs as holiday ornaments for years, and in a baggie in a drawer for years after that. I couldn't bear to throw away $5000 worth of ANYTHING.

And yes, you're doing the math correctly. $70,000 on editing gear in a 3-year period...not counting cameras and decks. This was in the days of "affordable" Beta SP - a $10,000 camera, $12K for a Canon zoom, $10K for a UVW-1800 deck, plus monitors, mics, batteries, a couple of VERY cheap lights, etc. -- another $40,000. That's $110,000+ in 2 years.

The COW's predecessor community, The WWUG, was comprised of thousands of a-holes like me who took out second mortgages to get started in this business -- including Ronald Lindeboom, who actually lit the whole thing up because he needed help to avoid losing the farm. There was nowhere else offering this level of life-and-death help, so he started The WWUG to get that help for his own business.

So yeah, we thought of Avid as expensive, and our $50,000 NLE setups as dirt cheap.

Goodness knows I could be remembering some of this wrong, and definitely writing far more than is necessary, but those were amazing days, and it's nearing midnight, and I'd just as soon be rambling on about this as take the dog out to pee one more time before bed.

I'd love for some of you other geezers to correct me and fill in the blanks. These stories are too good for me to have forgotten as much as I have.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 8:07:25 am

You guys had it so cheap in the USA. Prices in Australia for AVID systems with hardware and plenty of storage (a few 4 gig SCSI bricks), was much more expensive.

A facility that I shared space with bought an Editbox for around US$400k in the early 1990s. They had around two hours of uncompressed 8 bit PAL SD storage and had to archive to an expensive Sony digi beta deck. The huge cost of hardware and software compared to today does make me chuckle at the winging over a $300 software system like FCPX.

These days I see no reason for a facility not to have a few of each NLEs. I am a small facility and I am getting Resolve, CS6 and probably Smoke as well as keeping FCS3 and adding FCPX as a 'plugin' translator to generate XMLs (if any local editors actual bother to use it for a real job). All that for the price of one 2 gig of SCSI drive from the late eighties.


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 8:55:29 am

[Michael Gissing] "All that for the price of one 2 gig of SCSI drive from the late eighties."

My first 27GB RAID, which was approximately the size and volume of a small airplane, set me back $15,000 -- which was dealer cost. This was when ProMAX was also a distributor, and Charles McConathy said, "Yeah, but I don't actually like my south Florida dealer. Since I can't get rid of him before you need the drives, I'll give it to you for his cost."

Just another reason why those of us who started with ProMAX in 1994 still feel so strongly about them.

(BTW, no Wikipedia entry for Promax or Charles? Somebody fix this.)

Anyway, I just got a 16GB USB key, shaped like an ACTUAL KEY, for FREE with the purchase of a bus-powered USB 3 2TB drive for $149. Unbelievable.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Carsten Orlt
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 10:02:47 am

I only remember that I paid the equivalent of US$72.000 in 1992 for my Avid which was an ex demo model because I couldn't afford the full price. It was the 25th license sold in Germany. It was running on a IIfx and I had 3x 600 MB hard drives which each cost the equivalent of US$6.500.

Over the next five years I paid at least another US$40.000 for upgrades. There was a reason why I switched in 97 or 98 ( can't remember) to FCP v1.

But don't forget that we could charge very different rates at the time :-)

Funny thing is that I had similar discussions around 1991-92 with tapes houses about pro and contra of the Avid system that we have now about FCPx. History likes to repeat itself.

Best
Carsten


Return to posts index

Liam Hall
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 10:14:08 am

[Tim Wilson] "A lot less than you'd think."

We paid around £80, 000 for our first system in 1992. As a commercials editor agencies insisted upon using it despite the fact it was slow and unreliable. I bought a Lightworks a couple of years later for the cut-down price of £42, 000 - still my favourite NLE...

Liam Hall
Director/DoP/Editor
http://www.liamhall.net


Return to posts index

olof ekbergh
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 1:15:07 pm

Does anyone remember Radius Mac Clones and their Radius Telecast.

That was my first system, you used an early version of Premier that could not keep audio sync for more than 3 minutes at a time. You had to render 3 minute clips and then write a script to play them in sequence to record to tape, it sometimes worked and sometimes not.

This system was a nightmare, and I got a M100 in 97. It still is my main system now using Kona cards and my oldest Vincent board system still runs as does a "Huge" RAID. I sold a few of the systems over the years, usually for 10% of what they cost me, just to make room for new gear.

It gives me a head ache to think of the more than multiple six figurs I spent on upgrades, platinum contracts, Ram, Raids etc.

Olof Ekbergh


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 3:03:03 pm

What struck me the most is that even though MC looks very different today, the basics are in there. In/out, bins, source/record, trim mode, tape capture.

[olof ekbergh] "It gives me a head ache to think of the more than multiple six figurs I spent on upgrades, platinum contracts, Ram, Raids etc."

It is certainly a different world.

I remember when M100 was able to work with VST FireWire drives that were in the neighborhood of 30 GBs via FireWire. Transferring those from our ProMax SCSI arrays was a huge deal, and the sneaker net was born at the studio I was working in. Being able to switch rooms/projects without mounting another set of SCSIs was golden, even with ProMax's handy "swappable" SCSI trays (which came after the $9k 9GB "fixed" array). After that, things exploded very quickly and capability took off.

http://www.macobserver.com/newreviews/bc/00/000602vstdrives/vst.html


Return to posts index

Paul Dickin
Re: This popped up on Twitter today. The Avid 1 Media Composer from 23 years ago.
on Jun 2, 2012 at 4:31:27 pm

[olof ekbergh] "Does anyone remember Radius Mac Clones and their Radius Telecast."
Hi
Yes!
My Radius VideoVision arrived in December 1993 in a Quadra 840AV Mac with 32MB RAM - the RAM alone cost nearly £2000, and a 5.4GB SCSI raid array that cost £6000 and sounded like a jet engine powering up...

Upgraded to the Telecast breakout box running component into a UVW betacam recorder, and later fitted into a PowerMac 9150 nubus Workgroup server (the one with 4 slots and a Quadra 950 case), I online editied corporate videos very successfully until Christmas Eve 1999.

After the shutdown for the millennium celebrations I never switched it on again.... :-(
From then on I used FW in a B&W G3 with Premiere 6/6.5 and later FCP 2++ in G4s/G5s....

Whilst using Premiere v3.1.3 and 4 in the early days I remember often being up at 3am still trying to maintain sync on playout to tape of a 20min show. :-(

With later versions of Premiere, and with Radius' own Edit NLE software things were a bit more stable.
But everything was cut in 3 min sequences - that was how it had to be done ! ;-)
I think Apple licensed some of Radius' optimised code to incorporate into QuickTime v2.5 to help the loss of sync problems.

At the time I got the first system M100 as it started out was non-compatible with Quicktime, running its own proprietary media file format, so for that reason it got ruled out (like Avid was because it was only offline).
It was the 5MBytes/sec capability of the Quadra 840AV's nubus system feeding into the Telecast's component hardware that allowed full-res full-motion onlining to be achievable in practice (sort of LOL!)

The initial kit cost the price of a small house (it was paid for by a Government scheme).
The final late 90s kit cost the price of a small car - which I did pay for - because it earned me a living.

And just for the record I started as a film editor for BBC Television just after they began broadcasting on a second channel - BBC2 - in 1964 :-)



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]