FORUMS: list search recent posts

Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Tim Wilson
Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 5:38:18 pm

I'm on the record as not being an Apple fan anymore, but I'm also on the record as firmly believing that a new Mac Pro is coming. It never occurred to me for a minute that it wouldn't. The more I think about it, the less reason I can imagine for Apple not doing it.

I'm amazed that the people who are most sure it's NOT coming are some of Apple's biggest fans. So I have to ask: why? Why are you Apple fans trying to convince me that Apple has given up on Mac Pros? I mean, we all know that its specs will be inferior to HP, ProMAX, et al LOL -- but not happening at all? Really?


Return to posts index

Clint Wardlow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 5:47:45 pm

I think a lot of it is because Apple is always so damned tight-lipped about such things. Another reason people fear that the Mac Pro may not be coming is a perception (right or wrong) that idevices are sooo profitable and high-end boxes are not, that Apple is going to dump the line because it doesn't satisfy their bottom line requirements.

When a company is as secretive as Apple, rumors are naturally going to spread.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 5:52:08 pm

Reasons why I firmly believe it isn't coming. Besides the fact that reputable people at reputable companies that deal directly with Apple directly told me to my face:

- Hasn't seen ANY update in over 18 months. Approaching 2 years. Apple has never gone that long without updating hardware.

- Apple stopped making the X-Serve
- Apple stopped making the X-Serve RAID

Two very high end things that only a small few (compared to the iphone/ipad users) used. Profit margin is small.

- Discontinued SHAKE
- Discontinued COLOR
- Discontinued Final Cut Server

All high end apps for high end users. Gone.

- FCP Legacy scrapped in favor of FCX

Let's face it...FCX doesn't do what us high end "Hollywood professionals" need. They now cater to a different professional crowd. One that doesn't need MacPros. They work with iMacs and laptops fine.

- The only reason the MacPro exists is for the PCIe slots. And the only people who use those are video professionals and VFX professionals. And we all know what a small market they are, and given the history of the other things Apple discontinued that catered only to us...why keep this? Print professionals don't need towers, iMacs work fine, as do laptops, and Minis.

- Thunderbolt. Apple seems to think that EXTERNAL PCIe...THUNDERBOLT...is the future. Forget that it's only 4 lane and that us video professionals need 16 lane for many things like graphics cards and certain IO devices. Again, only video professionals in certain areas need that...and as we see Apple is moving away from catering to that market.

Because the MacPro only caters to a "very small niche" market (as Philip Hodgetts often calls us)...even though we represent about, say, 20,000 people...isn't only 2% of Apple's user base, so it only stands to reason that they no longer make very expensive machines to cater to the 2%. Especially since they no longer make an NLE for that 2%. FCX doesn't need a MacPro to run. They cater to a new video professional...so why keep the MacPro?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index


Erik Lundberg
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 6:10:26 pm

Hm. Don't forget the audio professionals. Audio professionals (or, at least a lot of them) crave PCIe-slots. A whole bunch of them.

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 6:17:45 pm

[Shane Ross] "Hasn't seen ANY update in over 18 months. Approaching 2 years. Apple has never gone that long without updating hardware."

Actually, the gap between the first two models of the Mac Pro was nearly two years: April/Aug (depending on model) of 2006 to January 2008. Admittedly some more data points since then, but nobody was talking about Apple abandoning the Mac Pro in 2006.

I'm not going to let you people trick me into saying anything nice about Apple LOL, but, I'm just sayin.


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 6:20:47 pm

[Shane Ross] "reputable people at reputable companies that deal directly with Apple directly told me to my face"

Did you ever ask them why it's still around?

Why haven't they killed it?

The current (fastest) iMac seems to work just fine with FCPX as well as other apps. At least based on my NAB experience. So, what are they waiting for?


Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 6:34:47 pm

[Kevin Patrick] "Did you ever ask them why it's still around?"

Clearing out stock and building materials they still have is the best guess we have.

[Kevin Patrick] "Why haven't they killed it?"

They will. When they run out of materials. It isn't selling much, so they aren't flying off the shelves. Although a few people said ones they have ordered haven't arrived...a month after the initial order.

They will be gone by the end of the year.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 6:51:00 pm

[Shane Ross] "They will be gone by the end of the year.
"


If Dairymple says no way then I'm convinced.

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 7:02:17 pm

[Steve Connor] "If Dairymple says no way then I'm convinced."

If it were any other company I wouldn't need convincing. 14,000 signed the Facebook thingy - what manufacturer wouldn't want to come out with a product that could generate that many advance sales, I don't care how small the margin - and I don't think MacPros are a small margin item. But as many have said here, Apple is not any other company. What other company would have tossed a market leading product in a ditch?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index


Kevin Patrick
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:11:47 pm

[Shane Ross] " When they run out of materials."

You might be right. (since you have a source and I don't)

However, Apple has a pretty good Sourcing organization. You may not agree when you look at instances where some of their new products are had to get. But when you under forecast demand it takes time to catch up. Increasing capacity involves a lot of time and money, especially for creating all the added tooling for all of their vendors. From semiconductors, to displays, glass, batteries, housings, etc. These are all long lead time items. They can take many weeks and all of them have to come together at the same time.

On the other hand, when you forecast too high, you simply have too much of something that you need to sell. This may be the case with the Mac Pro. But it's been a pretty long time. I find it hard to believe that they over foretasted the Mac Pro by so many units they are still trying to sell the extra inventory. I don't think this is typical Apple. They seem to have a history of making product cut over's fairly quickly. Whether it's from one iMac to the next (completely new designs), or simply ending a product all together such as the MacBook. Apple seems to do a pretty good job of managing end of life (or at least model life) of products without having years of inventory.

You may be right on the inventory issue. But I don't think it would take Apple this long to clear out inventory. I would guess that if Apple ended the Mac Pro, there would be a fair number of Mac Pro users that might buy up what's left, delaying the end of their own Mac Pro use. Didn't that happen with HP's ending of their tablet?

Either way, it always seems to be a topic that generates discussions and predictions.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:20:06 pm

[Kevin Patrick] "Either way, it always seems to be a topic that generates discussions and predictions."

and I'll be sad that we'll all have to stop talking about it when the new MacPro is announced in the next couple of weeks :)

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:30:49 pm

[Steve Connor] "I'll be sad that we'll all have to stop talking about it when the new MacPro is announced in the next couple of weeks"

You (and I and I'm sure many others) will be sad if in fact Apple simply kills off the Mac Pro.

However, if they release a new Mac Pro, with everything everybody wants ... Wouldn't we simply start up the discussion about whether or not this new Mac Pro is now their last Mac Pro.


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 2:46:55 pm

[Steve Connor] "and I'll be sad that we'll all have to stop talking about it when the new MacPro is announced in the next couple of weeks :)"

The next related fire will start. We'll be arguing over the design changes Apple made.



Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 2:55:50 pm

[Craig Seeman] "The next related fire will start. We'll be arguing over the design changes Apple made.
"


At least it will be different ground to cover.

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 3:26:27 pm

[Craig Seeman] "The next related fire will start. We'll be arguing over the design changes Apple made."

Or why it can't support 14 GPUs and seventeen raid cards, and 1/2 TB of RAM, when a laptop/iMac and thunderbolt raid will do 800MB/sec, capture 3G SDI video, and playback native red footage on a paltry 32GBs of RAM in a $2500 chassis.

Cue the LouisCK "everything's amazing" video!


Return to posts index


Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 4:37:18 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "when a laptop/iMac and thunderbolt raid will do 800MB/sec"

Jeremy - your getting 800 MB/s on a Tbolt raid? can you give me the specs?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 4:41:27 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Jeremy - your getting 800 MB/s on a Tbolt raid? can you give me the specs?"

http://www.promise.com/media_bank/Download%20Bank/Datasheet/DS_Pegaus_20110...


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 4:48:51 pm

Jeremy - are you using these yourself and getting this thruput?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 5:39:12 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Jeremy - are you using these yourself and getting this thruput?"

I do not have an iMac, but I have played with a TBolted iMac and a Promise Raid and it gets astounding speeds never seen before on an iMac. It was hovering around 780MB/sec consistently. I did not want to believe it either.

Of course, the raid was mostly empty, and probably not very fragmented. Even so, my guess is it goes down 100 MB/sec which leaves 650+. How much do you really need? I'm asking honestly.

I've seen 250+MB/sec off of one SSD drive.

And I'll tell you again, you don't need 900MB/sec to do a 6 camera mutlicam in 720p60 ProRes.

These are realities, not theories. Anyone who says that they can't cut video on an iMac with a TBolt raid hasn't tried it.

I'm not saying it's a sizzle core, but it's certainly snappier than my "tricked out" 3 year old MacPro with a fast fibre raid.

Jeremy


Return to posts index


Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:05:09 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I have played with a TBolted iMac and a Promise Raid and it gets astounding speeds never seen before on an iMac. It was hovering around 780MB/sec consistently. I did not want to believe it either."

Since your last post I did some research and those numbers are for Raid 0, which I would never use for serious storage, for Raid 5 it drops to around 500. When you have it at 80% capacity my guess is your around 400MB/s. Which I still find amazing at the prices I'm seeing - around $1600 for a 6TB drive. I don't see why you couldn't gang 2 of these together in a software raid 0, creating a raid 50 and get some amazing thruput numbers. If this had been around last year I would definitely have looked at this as an option. But it wasn't and my investment has been made. My Raid gets 900 MB/s raid 5 at 80% capacity - I have no complaints.

[Jeremy Garchow] " I'll tell you again, you don't need 900MB/sec to do a 6 camera mutlicam in 720p60 ProRes."

So you've said. What I can tell you is that at 500 MB/s in Legend (tm) I get the dark green preview line and occasional stuttering in playback. I know that theoretically this should not be happening, but it is, and not only on my system but on those of the editors I work with. I'm a lot happier working at 900 MB/s then I was at 500 - and a happy editor makes nicer edits.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Anyone who says that they can't cut video on an iMac with a TBolt raid hasn't tried it.I'm not saying it's a sizzle core, but it's certainly snappier than my "tricked out" 3 year old MacPro with a fast fibre raid."

I've never said you can't cut with a new Imac , I've just said that with the gear I have the Imac isn't a great option. Also, for PPro it isn't a good option on a dollar for dollar basis. The Imac makes sense if your committed to FCPX or the MAC OS and I'm neither.

I am still amazed at those Pegasus Raid speeds however, thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:19:10 pm

[Herb Sevush] "So you've said. What I can tell you is that at 500 MB/s in Legend (tm) I get the dark green preview line and occasional stuttering in playback. I know that theoretically this should not be happening, but it is, and not only on my system but on those of the editors I work with. I'm a lot happier working at 900 MB/s then I was at 500 - and a happy editor makes nicer edits."

The green line will never go away in multicam.

There's a real easy way to see what kind of MB/sec you're pulling on any given edit. Open the Activity Monitor. Click "Disk Activity" load up a mutlclip and hit play. Check out the number on "Data Read/sec".

[Herb Sevush] "I've never said you can't cut with a new Imac , I've just said that with the gear I have the Imac isn't a great option. Also, for PPro it isn't a good option on a dollar for dollar basis. The Imac makes sense if your committed to FCPX or the MAC OS and I'm neither."

I know, I'm surprised you're still here!


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:36:46 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "There's a real easy way to see what kind of MB/sec you're pulling on any given edit. Open the Activity Monitor. Click "Disk Activity" load up a mutlclip and hit play. Check out the number on "Data Read/sec"."

According to that monitor I could play back my multiclips on a single internal drive with headroom to spare, but I know that I can't. Somehow I think there's more going on than what that activity monitor shows.

[Jeremy Garchow] " I'm surprised you're still here!"

Just because I'm not committed to Apple doesn't mean I won't buy their products if it makes sense. It wouldn't shock me if I was cutting on X 3 years down the road, it does have a great multicam feature. On the other hand it wouldn't surprise me if in 3 years I didn't have a single piece of Apple gear in my office. I just want stuff that lets me do my work. Despite all evidence to the contrary I don't enjoy thinking about computers and operating systems - I enjoy thinking about baseball and my son.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:27:17 pm

I won't attempt to pick apart the numbers or the methodology used.

I think you could sum up the data by stating that Apple and McDonalds are far and away ahead of all the rest listed when it comes to Supply Chain and inventory management.

Which is why I have a hard time buying into the suggestion that Apple has kept the Mac Pro alive because they poorly managed the supply chain (inventory) for the Mac Pro.

They may still kill it. Or replace it with something they believe should be the next Mac Pro. (as in FCPX replaced FCS/FCP7) I just feel they have reasons other than inventory for keeping it around.

I'm sure we'll find out.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/05/31/apple_turns_over_entire_inven...


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 2:16:23 pm

Given Tim Cook's expertise is supposedly managing the channel, I also can't see any which way that the MacPro is still being sold because of overstock. It's there because the channel has to be up and running for the quick changeover to whatever replaces it.

Personally I think there's some doublespeak going on. IMHO the MacPro, as we know it, is dead, There will be a replacement. So if someone says the MacPro is dead they may well be correct. If they said Apple is no longer going to be making Xeon based computers, I think they'd be wrong.

Personally I think Jim Darlymple values his reputation too much to say something that wasn't a certitude. Something is coming. We can guess about the name change and the form factor but it's coming. It will have Thunderbolt and it will have Xeon CPUs.

As to the portion of revenue, Apple's goal is to increase that. Either something is dropped or it's changed. My guess is the latter. Whatever replaces the MacPro would probably fill a broader market than the current tower does. I also don't think Jonathan Ive is destined to spend the rest of his carrier tweaking iPhone and iPad case designs. What replaces the MacPro will be the next notch in his design belt.



Return to posts index

John Heagy
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 2, 2012 at 2:08:39 am

[Shane Ross] "They will. When they run out of materials."

Apple is expert at "just in time" manufacturing. They don't have Mac Pro mother boards lying around. If they wanted to kill it they would have announced EOL by now.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 6:27:55 pm

[Shane Ross] "Reasons why I firmly believe it isn't coming..."

What he said, plus I can't imagine what they would be waiting for, all the new chips have been released, all the major workstation vendors have previewed their upgrades -- are they waiting for the transit of Venus? If so, then that means they will announce by next Tuesday. Otherwise I figure the MacPro sleeps with the fishes.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Handy Galaherang
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 10:11:01 am

"Because the MacPro only caters to a "very small niche" market (as Philip Hodgetts often calls us)...even though we represent about, say, 20,000 people...isn't only 2% of Apple's user base, so it only stands to reason that they no longer make very expensive machines to cater to the 2%"

They don't care about niche market, they are focusing on the best product. Just like Steve Jobs said: "When the sales guys run the company, the product guys don’t matter so much, and a lot of them just turn off. It happened at Apple when Sculley came in, which was my fault, and it happened when Ballmer took over at Microsoft.”


-Handry-


Return to posts index

Michael Sanders
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 10:20:11 pm

What amazes me is the arrogance of people that thinks we (as in video pros) are the only ones who need mac pro's. What about..

Biochemists
Physicists
Engineers
Audio engineers
Photographers
Designers
Graphic designers,
Er software designers to name a few..

If anyone doubts the first three I can take you to labs in the uk where PCs are rapidly being ditched for macpros at a rate of knots.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


Return to posts index

Thomas Frank
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 2, 2012 at 10:23:09 pm

They said the something about Final Cut Pro, it is dead blablabla....



[Shane Ross] "Let's face it...FCX doesn't do what us high end "Hollywood professionals" need."

This was also said about Final Cut Pro 7 and lower. lol intact what is being commented about Final Cut Pro X is the similar when Final Cut Pro 3 was released and now it is being praised as the big dog.

I don't know if a Mac Pro is coming. If Apple wanted to step out the Pro market by killing off Shake, Color, XSAN (oh wait it is still around just for free), etc... then the Macbook Pro would have been renamed or tagged for EOL.
We might not see the Mac Pro as we do today but I think something is coming or it would have been already of the sale list. Like the Xserve.

Also Tim Cook is more enterprise friendly then Steve Jobs was maybe they are in a rebuilding state.



Return to posts index

Michael Fournier
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jan 27, 2013 at 11:51:18 pm

OK If you are right here is why I think it is a huge mistake buy Apple to kill the Mac Pro
As well as a mistake they already have made of not keeping it on the cutting edge and the fastest workstation you can get on any platform (including the cost/performance comparison to other high end workstations)

It is Bad PR for the Apple brand the most valuable thing Apple has is the Apple brand. And even though most Mac Users and Apple customers will never buy a Mac Pro or ever need the power it offers the fact it is there and is the choice of those that demand the most power money can buy is good for the Apple brand. EVEN if it takes selling the Mac Pro at a loss it would still be a gain for Apple's brand. And in turn drive sales of all Apple products.
It is like a Auto company spending on racing team or a Lexus LF (they claim in spite of being very expensive every one is still sold at a loss to the company)

But in order for the Mac Pro to be good for the Apple image it must be kept ahead of the competition (which it has not been for some time) it must offer Price/performance gains so companies will choose Apple over other platforms because when it comes to high end users the Mac OS GUI does not add anything as most would use UNIX with a command line if it speeds the work flow. (and many do) Even Pixar with Steve Jobs at the helm used Unix workstations and Linux PC workstations for their high end needs (yes they had macs too ) but if the Mac pro offers advantages they would use it.

BUT the PR of a power user choosing Apple (and actually buying them not Apple giving them away) is good PR for all sales of Apple products the same user choosing HP or Dell workstations over Apple has the opposite effect, And the other issue is when Apple's hardware is not the choice of the power users nether is Apple's OS and that is a problem with sales at all levels

A Example is the collage student that is very tech savvy is considering if they could buy a PC or a Mac and they do not need the highest end yet but they think they may someday but since they will have to learn Windows in the future anyway since that is the choice of those that want the fastest system so why should they buy a mac? the image is that Apple is not for this tat demand power and he wants to stick with the platform that is the choice of power users even if he is not buying a workstation.

SO unless apple is planing getting out of making Macs all together and killing Mac OS X they can not kill the Mac Pro. as doing so is the beginning of the end. for Mac OS X.


Return to posts index

Clint Wardlow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 6:48:19 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Why are you Apple fans trying to convince me that Apple has given up on Mac Pros? I mean, we all know that its specs will be inferior to HP, ProMAX, et al LOL"

And this is one reason I think we are waiting with baited breath. When I purchased my imac 27 inch (moving from a G5 MacPro) it was fine for my needs. Every since I started delving into After Effects, I have been craving not only more power --even though I have the beefiest i7 imac with 16 gigs of ram -- but the abilty to upgrade my graphics card to a higher-end Nvidia that takes advantage of CUDA and the mercury engine.

All-in-ones as they now stand will take you only so far. So I am hoping for an upgraded Mac Pro or something comparable with some real juice. If not, I will do the unthinkable and purchase a non-mac for my next computer. I have waited to see how Apple is jumping on this Mac Pro thing, but I can only wait so long (it seems like forever).

That is why Apple's secretive ways are so maddening at times. I'm not really sure how to proceed.


Return to posts index

Alan Okey
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 7:44:12 pm

I won't reveal my sources, but like Shane said, I have heard from reputable people at reputable companies that deal directly with Apple.

The iMac is going to be the new high-end machine in Apple's lineup. No new Mac Pro, no replacement "other" product.


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 7:51:16 pm

Apple is now a "Post-PC" company. The first move towards that will be emptying out the Mac Pro inventory and leaving that form of desktop behind. I bet iMacs will be next in a few years.

Eventually, iOS and OSX will merge. You can already see hints of that with Mountain Lion having Twitter and Facebook integration.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 7:54:37 pm

[Alan Okey] "The iMac is going to be the new high-end machine in Apple's lineup. No new Mac Pro, no replacement "other" product."

My last word on this whole subject is that if this statement is true there will be a large enough demand for Hackintoshes to make it a feasible option. Just like with any other drug, if the need is there, someone will be happy to make money filling that need.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Clint Wardlow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 7:56:51 pm

And this is what makes Apple's tight-lipped stance so damned maddening. We have a multitude of reputible sources all saying different things about the fate of the mac pro.

I mean, I know Apple likes to wow us with sudden pronouncements of new hardware and software. And this may work for the iphone and ipad crowd.

But damn, I just wish Apple would at least say something about the mac pro. They don't even have to go into detail. Just a simple "Yes, we are upgrading it or a no we are not but we have something new to take its place or no we are opting out of high-end boxes."


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 9:08:35 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "I mean, I know Apple likes to wow us with sudden pronouncements of new hardware and software. And this may work for the iphone and ipad crowd.
"


I think Apple just likes to be able to change their collective mind on a dime without ever having to acknowledge or apologize for changing direction. Oh, and the Pr from all of our burbling--they like that, too.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:57:56 pm

[Alan Okey] "I won't reveal my sources, but like Shane said, I have heard from reputable people at reputable companies that deal directly with Apple.

The iMac is going to be the new high-end machine in Apple's lineup. No new Mac Pro, no replacement "other" product."


Maybe that Tim Cook "double down" on secrecy means just flat out "lying". You know, to throw off the scent, or perhaps to find the rat:







Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 9:22:57 pm

They've just passed up so many opportunities to upgrade or reboot the line that their attitude toward it seems truly derelict. Every time I've seen this attitude from them before--Shake, for instance--it generally means bye-bye.

Now, The Loop does seem to get inside info from time to time, so if Jim Dalrymple seems as convinced as has been reported that the Mac Pro is ongoing, I'll certainly reassess my POV for the time being. Still, everything else I've seen says Closing Time.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 9:36:48 pm

On Larry Jordan's blog post on the future of the MacPro, in response to someone posting the Dalrymple comment, Larry's saying his getting a similar "vibe."



Return to posts index

Alan Okey
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 9:41:22 pm

While I dislike the facts, I understand the situation completely from a business perspective. Apple simply can't keep investing in hardware that offers them so little return on investment. GPU drivers alone have proven to be too overwhelming for Apple, even when they still cared about towers. The numbers just aren't there for Apple to justify continuing the development and support of hardware that accounts for such a negligible portion of their sales and profits. Xserve RAID and Xserve were perfect examples of this reality.

Things may have been different before the iPhone and iPad, when "high end" users still counted for something in terms of public mindshare (Hollywood credits, etc.) but clearly Apple no longer needs that kind of attention to be successful. Complex, expensive products purchased by a niche user base simply don't figure prominently in Apple's future.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:41:50 pm

[Alan Okey] "Xserve RAID and Xserve were perfect examples of this reality."

Was the XServe Raid high end?

Around the turn of the millennium, I remember I bought a 5 drive PATA 4Gb Fibre channel raid from Huge Systems that could out perform the 10 drive 2Gb XServe Raid.

I'll get guff for this, but Apple has never been in the CPU speed race. I think this might be why a MacPro hasn't been refreshed. I also think there's some technical limitations with thunderbolt. Being it's PCIe AND displayport, can thunderbolt reside in a MacPro? It makes sense for portables, but does it make sense in a machine that can handle more than that? If not, doesn't that throw off Apple's whole game?

Let's say they are going to release a new one with those fancy new intel procs. They have been announced from HP, but have other companies announced plans for them? Has HP actually started shipping them? I am asking because I have no idea, and trying to configure an HP workstation on hp.com is really f*cking confusing. Sorry, but it is. Perhaps Apple doesn't have all the parts they need to build a MacPro, and those new processors have hit real life delays.

Just like the Thunderbolt adoption, there seems to be a reason it hasn't been adopted faster and that's parts and getting them in quantity.

And do we think the prices of a MacPro are going to go down? No, the price of CPUs has actually gone up.

I am in the camp that Apple will release a MacPro equivalent. I don't know what the form factor is going to be. I imagine it will be built to sell to the middle of the bell curve, and not the relatively flat ends.

Selling the 15,000 Facebook likes probably wouldn't pay for the cost of a redesign. We have seen what Facebook is worth on the free market.

If the rumor is true they are dumping the 17" laptop because it sold a paltry 50,000 "copies" will they ramp up to sell a third of that volume in a MacPro?

Would you?


Return to posts index

Alan Okey
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:59:32 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Was the XServe Raid high end?"

For Apple, it was. And now it's gone. Extrapolate.


Return to posts index

Jules bowman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 8:17:12 am

I'm confused. Let us say as an under estimate that apple sold 20,000 £3000 mac pros. That is, I believe, £60million.

Now let us consider that they didn't want to use ANY of their current resources for this as they were all focused on the iToys which rake in the billions, so they rent/build new premises, hire new tech staff, even some new ancillary staff and they get them to work on the Mac Pros.

I find it hard to believe that the above scenario will cost more than the £60 mill generated over even 2 years. In which cse a profit will be being turned. Even if that profit is one dollar they are duty bound as a corporation to generate it for their shareholders, but they don't/won't because why? It doesn't fit into their self image of a post PC world?

Same scenario above could have been done for FCP8 with FCX being offered as a separate iToy software.

So, for me the only reason that this whole debate rages is because apple think they are über cool and iToys are the only future. Plus they are doing their shareholders out of profit.

Sack them all I'd say, if I owned their stock. silly silly boys/girls.


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 9:39:00 pm

Depends the construal of Mac Pro.

Will it be a noisy and mostly ugly tower? No.

Will it have massive computing power? Yes.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 9:43:25 pm

[Richard Herd] "Will it be a noisy and mostly ugly tower? No.
Will it have massive computing power? Yes."


Massive computing power is not enough. It needs massive (up to 64GB) memory and it needs lots of PCIe Lanes - enough for multiple 16 lane graphics cards and multiple 8 Lane storage and i/o devices. An Imac with a few Tbolt ports won't cut it, no matter how fast the CPU.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:14:18 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Massive computing power is not enough. It needs massive (up to 64GB) memory and it needs lots of PCIe Lanes - enough for multiple 16 lane graphics cards and multiple 8 Lane storage and i/o devices. An Imac with a few Tbolt ports won't cut it, no matter how fast the CPU."

You are looking at the wrong computer company if you're looking at Apple.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:16:40 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "
You are looking at the wrong computer company if you're looking at Apple."


EXACTLY! They are no longer in it for the raw computing power we need to get work done. We now have PCs for that. Although HP almost got out of the personal computing biz. Until smart people fired the CEO who said that...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:42:45 pm

[Shane Ross] "EXACTLY! They are no longer in it for the raw computing power "

They never were in it for the raw computing power.


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:00:12 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Shane Ross] "EXACTLY! They are no longer in it for the raw computing power "

They never were in it for the raw computing power.
"


Oh, now, c'mon. You've gotta remember those G5 commercials where all you had to do was turn it on to get blown to the other side of the house. I say there was clearly a time they when they were strutting around to the tune of Raw Power.


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:09:52 am

[Chris Harlan] " I say there was clearly a time they when they were strutting around to the tune of Raw Power."

Posts are flying faster than bullets, but I mentioned this in my post somewhere up above this. But that was 1999! Since then, it's been all "think different" (ie, different than power LOL) or "I'm a PC" vs. "I'm Drew Barrymore's boyfriend."

BTW, here's Apple's 1999 Supercomputer commercial:



Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Robert Brown
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 5:55:47 pm

[Tim Wilson] "BTW, here's Apple's 1999 Supercomputer commercial:"

This really is a humorous business when you can look back at the old adds. But personally I also think the Mac Pro is done. Even though I hope my 12 core is not done for a while. To me it seems the Mac Pro is everything Apple isn't anymore. I think they must cringe that they're still selling them. They're all about small and cute these days.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:06:06 pm

[Robert Brown] "They're all about small and cute these days."

I can't wait to see Jonathan Ive's small and cute MacPro replacement. I'm glad you feel positively about the new form factor as well.



Return to posts index

Clint Wardlow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:14:44 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I can't wait to see Jonathan Ive's small and cute MacPro replacement. I've glad you feel positively about the new form factor as well."

I don't know. I would kind of like to see big honking towers with lots of blinking lights and beeping noises. Maybe even a couple of cosmetic only reel-to-reels thrown in. A Mac Pro so massive in size I could design an entire room around it I am kind of retro that way.


Return to posts index

Robert Brown
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:51:27 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "I don't know. I would kind of like to see big honking towers with lots of blinking lights and beeping noises. Maybe even a couple of cosmetic only reel-to-reels thrown in. A Mac Pro so massive in size I could design an entire room around it I am kind of retro that way.
"


Yeah kind of like the Bat Computer that spit out answers on punch cards. That would be a real step in the right direction.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


Return to posts index

Robert Brown
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:50:03 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I can't wait to see Jonathan Ive's small and cute MacPro replacement."

It's already out, the Mac Mini. I have no idea what they are going to do and don't really care but to me it seems they're done with the big heavy stuff.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:55:04 pm

[Robert Brown] "t seems they're done with the big heavy stuff."

Only by weight. I think Xeons are coming. I tend to believe Jim Dalrymple given that being wrong would do some damage to his reputation as a writer.



Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 7:22:44 pm

[Craig Seeman] "being wrong would do some damage to his reputation as a writer.
"


Damage? Naw. Its not like he was taking a stand or something. He hasn't even written about it. Somebody asked him if he thought the Macpro was dead, he said "no," and then somebody reported on the character of his smile. Le's not take this moist towelette in the desert as anything more than it is. Yes, I believe he sometimes has good inside info, but it is hardly going to damage his career if there is no MacPro.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 7:38:50 pm

I understand he was not simply stating an opinion but was stating information from a source he believed to be reliable. That's a big difference. It was for a podcast. They don't carry any less journalistic integrity and when a journalist uses a source they say is reliable, their reputation is at stake because it calls into question the journalist's judgement on the reliability of their sources.



Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 11:36:02 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I understand he was not simply stating an opinion but was stating information from a source he believed to be reliable. "

No, I listened. He's not representing anyone's view but his own. He's making no claim of inside knowledge. No mention of an inside source. He just thinks there will be more. Again, its way blown up.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:25:29 am

[Chris Harlan] "Oh, now, c'mon. You've gotta remember those G5 commercials where all you had to do was turn it on to get blown to the other side of the house. I say there was clearly a time they when they were strutting around to the tune of Raw Power."

Surely. I didn't say Apple didn't market power, but pound for pound and feature for feature, Macs have been lesser capable in the processing department than pcs for a long while.

I think it was "The Fastest Mac, yet.". Keyword collection: Mac.

You could never stick as many periphs in a Mac tower than you could a much cheaper PC, even in the PATA days.

It's the troof.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:17:12 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "You are looking at the wrong computer company if you're looking at Apple."

Why? I just described the MacPro circa 2010. If there going to make a workstation, how could it not fit that description?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:32:58 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Why? I just described the MacPro circa 2010."

Multiple 16 lane GPUs and multiple 8 lane PCIe channels?

A macpro has never had that, my man.

Wishful thinking.

I'm not saying it never will, but it never has had those specs you are requesting.

Seriously, look to get a PC, or at least wait until WWDC in a few weeks.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:43:24 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Multiple 16 lane GPUs and multiple 8 lane PCIe channels? A macpro has never had that, my man."

Your right, I misspoke. The MacPro has 2x16 lane and 2x4 lane. You would think that if they are continuing the MacPro line they could up that a mite considering 2 years have past and what's available on the PC side.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Seriously, look to get a PC, or at least wait until WWDC in a few weeks."

I very seriously wish I could switch to a PC now, but neither PPro nor Avid fits my needs at the moment. I'm stuck with Legacy for another year, I need to add another Raid and the cheapest answer would be a Mac Pro that could handle the additional PCIe lanes. I'm guessing it's not to be. There might be a Hackintosh in my future.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:47:25 pm

[Herb Sevush] " very seriously wish I could switch to a PC now, but neither PPro nor Avid fits my needs at the moment. I'm stuck with Legacy for another year, I need to add another Raid and the cheapest answer would be a Mac Pro that could handle the additional PCIe lanes. I'm guessing it's not to be. There might be a Hackintosh in my future."

OK, so if you're sticking to FCP Legend, what are you going to do with multiple GPUs and multiple I/O on a 32bit application that won't see but one of each and barely touches the GPU as it is?

What kind of raid do you have now? SAS?


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:49:39 pm

I was thinking about Macs and power. Ignoring the irony that the most successful clone that Apple killed was Power Computing, remember the "Supercomputer on a chip" campaign from 1999? Introduced by SJ at the SEYBOLD SEMINARS no less! Contemporary reporting here, which is well worth being reminded of.

Since then, they've offered a lot of compelling reasons to buy Macs - none of 'em power...which is GOOD. That's not their game anymore.

Not to keep banging this drum, but the current Mac Pro supports 64GB RAM...compared to 512GB with the HP Z820. 512GB! I had to doublecheck that it wasn't a typo. Apple might double their RAM support, but increase it by EIGHT TIMES?

Likewise slots. Z820:3 PCI Express 16, a couple of Gen 3 8s, a Gen 2 8, and a legacy PCI for a total of 7)...but you knew that. How many more slots is it likely for Apple to add? More than double? Really?

Anyway, a dozen new posts have come in since I started writing this, and I keep revising trying to catch up...but you've mostly caught up. :-)

To the rest of the class, I think it's one thing to say that you want more than iMac...which is what I think you're saying, Herb (and others)...and one thing to say that you'd rather eat your arm than buy a PC (I read that earlier today, but forget who said it)...but it's another thing to expect "massive computing power" from Apple relative to anything but iMacs and Apple laptops.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 10:59:10 pm

Somebody please remind me why was I in love with Mac computers!



Sohrab

FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi & Adobe PPro



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:45:59 am

[Sohrab Sandhu] "Somebody please remind me why was I in love with Mac computers!"

Mac OS.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:00:57 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "OK, so if you're sticking to FCP Legend, what are you going to do with multiple GPUs and multiple I/O on a 32bit application that won't see but one of each and barely touches the GPU as it is?"

My issue is that my MacPro died and I'm on a loaner. A present day MacPro would just about do - 16 Lane for the graphics card, 16 Lane for my ATTO R680 controller (just needs 8 lanes), 4 Lanes for my ARECA controller (wants 8 lanes as well but can marginally work with 4) and 4 Lanes for BM i/o. But this means I'm spending my money on a 2 year old computer with no way to upgrade graphics or CPU in the future to take advantage of my next NLE that I will be migrating to the following year. At best I get the cheapest refurbished MacPro out there and piss away $3000 on a 1 year solution so that next year I can get the $6K PC I really want. I would prefer to give Apple my $6K and get something I can use for a few years, but that doesn't look very likely now does it, no matter what Dairymple says.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:14:45 pm

Consensus then? It won't be a tower-style form factor.

What if its a scalable type thing, a bunch of quasi mac minis. You can stack each 8 GB unit (my imagination not fact) as a kind of render farm and you'll get your 512GB.

I'm just sayin': construal is everything.

Think of the profit margins. Herb can buy 10 of 'em. Shane can buy 44 of 'em. Jeremy can buy 52. Bill won' buy one. and so on, so that you scale your own thing. I'll buy 4 of 'em, a cute matching set for my family, the wife and twins and me.


Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:24:37 pm

I can see how impressed clients are going to be when they walk into a suite that has 14 little bricks strung together with Thunderbolt cables, and dozens of necessary outboard peripherals. It will look like an Apple knick-knack shelf!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:00:56 am

I would put them in a properly controlled closet and access them wirelessly and I'd send a video output the client's iPad.

You bring up another topic by accident, though: Video is now a fashion industry. It's happened in other industries before, so it's not surprising really. Korg v. Roland. Peavey v. Marshall. Fender v. Gibson.

I imagine the Hollywood editors, with their up-turned Polo collars, sunglasses on their heads: "Hey brah, pass the mojito. So how impressed was your client?"

Did you know all those Marshall cabinets on rock stages aren't really speakers? Nothing is stopping you, then, from doing the same thing with three, four, or five tower-formed Mac Pros, to impress folks ;)


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:39:13 am

Joseph - "I can see how impressed clients are going to be when they walk into a suite that has 14 little bricks strung together with Thunderbolt cables, and dozens of necessary outboard peripherals. "

richard's response -

[Richard Herd] "I would put them in a properly controlled closet and access them wirelessly and I'd send a video output the client's iPad."

his ipad.

richard but of course, brilliant solution - so that's a little open to question:

at say, literally the day before yesterday, the client mac pro gave out with a pop - declared a red light through the grill.

its a facility within an advertising body - with high teen's seats.

The macpro had staged failure visual light indicators. at the front, and separately, at the ram.

It's an engineer accessible machine richard. You get this right? You understand the context of a machine produced for these scenarios?

as one clown to another, I am surprised that you do not grasp the basics of situation specific computing design: say blinking diagnosable critical components.

The guy had a look, pulled out the motherboard, and the suite was going again, I *think* with a swap out of some description, inside the morning.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 5:35:23 am

Are you a frowning clown or a smiling clown? I tend to frown.

I don't really understand computer engineering, even though my cousin Steve--a fine computer engineer and scientist and programmer by all accounts--has tried his damnedest to explain to me over the last 20 years.

I gave up the Hegelian dialectic almost two decades ago, slave/master computing metaphors. It was around the time I was slogging through some modernist Irish novelist's tome. Aw Chico, CA circa 1996. {nostalgia.pickwhip}

I try to just tap dance whenever possible.

What is that sound? Are you chanting, Gregorian style? Please do not miscontrue my science fiction as actuality.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "blinking diagnosable critical components" brilliant! I shall incorporate this into my world view immediately, using a C3PO voice and R2D2 whistle.

Rich, my friends call me Rich.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 8:07:52 am

[Richard Herd] "Are you a frowning clown or a smiling clown? I tend to frown.

I don't really understand computer engineering, even though my cousin Steve--a fine computer engineer and scientist and programmer by all accounts--has tried his damnedest to explain to me over the last 20 years.

I gave up the Hegelian dialectic almost two decades ago, slave/master computing metaphors. It was around the time I was slogging through some modernist Irish novelist's tome. Aw Chico, CA circa 1996. {nostalgia.pickwhip}

I try to just tap dance whenever possible.

What is that sound? Are you chanting, Gregorian style? Please do not miscontrue my science fiction as actuality.
"


I am genuinely in awe of many of your recent posts, they remind me of Aindreas in his heyday before his rage became sated by the arrival of PR6. Another reason to keep coming back to this bustling corner of the interweb.

Steve Connor
"The ripple command is just a workaround for not having a magnetic timelinel"
Adrenalin Television


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 8:28:05 am

Your kinds words are now a part of my blog and my marketing campaign proving my own genius. Too bad my reel stinks.

[Steve Connor] "in awe "

PLease keep reading. Ron and Tim need the money. ;)

I also enjoy your excellent posts on refining technique in X. But let's cut to it. Herb owes Bill a beer.

Reality is, I received a variety of footage. I honestly started transcoding in compressor to be professional. I started to put it all in APR422, to edit in Legend.

Then the Matrix reloaded itself, and I was all...

Eff It.

I'll make an event in X.

Done.

Started editing.

Seriously.

No kidding. Avid and CS6 are lame ducks and they know it. (Let me also state I used Premiere today, haven't used Avid since 2003, M100 since 2005.) Editing is a fashion industry.

I--Rich--need a machine that will ingest footage from multiple sources simultaneously and let me conform to a single output. Moreover, it's faster and more awesome to cut.

Two more points.

1. I love editing.
2. How am I gonna make up the cost structure? I get to do what I love to do quicker but I make less dough.

Oh...Legend. I'll be at Disneyland on Tuesday...really.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:16:22 pm

Died how?


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:22:54 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Died how?"

It got Bambi'd (mother! mother!) - dead motherboard, don't know the exact nature of the disease, but it had the best doctors I could find and a viking funeral.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:26:27 pm

[Herb Sevush] "It got Bambi'd (mother! mother!) - dead motherboard, don't know the exact nature of the disease, but it had the best doctors I could find and a viking funeral."

Bummer. You can't replace it or you just don't want to pay to replace it if it's just for a year?


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:35:33 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "You can't replace it or you just don't want to pay to replace it if it's just for a year?"

I'm not sure if they even make replacement motherboards for it, and if they did it wouldn't be worth the money. It was a MacPro 1.1 - even more limited PCIe. It was due to be replaced last year, but I was advised to hold off because something new was coming - and I'm still waiting.

The loaner is also a 1.1 and working on it is killing me - crashes all the time because I'm using only 8 lanes for the gfx card so I have enough lanes for the raids. Ever since we went tapeless my storage needs have skyrocketed - 720P60 ProRes for 5 cameras eats up a lot more space than 720P30 DVCPRO HD for 4 cameras.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:39:42 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I'm not sure if they even make replacement motherboards for it, and if they did it wouldn't be worth the money. It was a MacPro 1.1 - even more limited PCIe. It was due to be replaced last year, but I was advised to hold off because something new was coming - and I'm still waiting.

The loaner is also a 1.1 and working on it is killing me - crashes all the time because I'm using only 8 lanes for the gfx card so I have enough lanes for the raids. Ever since we went tapeless my storage needs have skyrocketed - 720P60 ProRes for 5 cameras eats up a lot more space than 720P30 DVCPRO HD for 4 cameras."


Yeah, that's a tough one. I am sure you could find a refurb/demo to get you through "the year".

Pain in the a$$ to be sure.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:08:25 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Pain in the a$$ to be sure."

The thing is I have options, it's the uncertainty that's bugging me. This morning I had committed to just getting a refurb MacPro but my IT guy talked me out of it, saying I should wait a few more weeks. The only thing that would really piss me off is buying a refurb and then Apple coming out with an upgrade. All I want is clarity - kill it or not, just let everyone know so we can move on.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:28:30 am

[Herb Sevush] "The thing is I have options, it's the uncertainty that's bugging me. This morning I had committed to just getting a refurb MacPro but my IT guy talked me out of it, saying I should wait a few more weeks. The only thing that would really piss me off is buying a refurb and then Apple coming out with an upgrade. All I want is clarity - kill it or not, just let everyone know so we can move on."

That's what got you in this bind a year ago!

If I was you, I'd wait until WWDC. After that, you buy for what you need now.


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:45:21 am

Durn it Herb. Buy the i7 and a Tbolt array and use X. $7k.

Then buy Bill a beer.

Push a button, one button -- all five cameras are magically (i mean, metadatally) sync'd. Cut the pic. The first session will be filled with expletives and fist poundings and hyperbole, by you. The second one will be done faster than that and so on until it's all done faster than Legend. Session 3, in my prognostication will put you in a positive return on capital employed.

Need access to the Legend projects. Spend $10 on 7tox. DONE!

You don't like it? There'll be 25 recent grads who'll buy it. Or maybe Bill will.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:29:06 pm

[Richard Herd] "Buy the i7 and a Tbolt array and use X."

4 lane Raid's are not fast enough for my workflow, at least in my experience.

[Richard Herd] "Then buy Bill a beer."

Gladly.

[Richard Herd] "Push a button, one button -- all five cameras are magically (i mean, metadatally) sync'd."

If you shoot with matching timecode Legend has been a one button sync machine for years, so I'll save the $300 for something useful.

[Richard Herd] "You don't like it? There'll be 25 recent grads who'll buy it. Or maybe Bill will."

No Bill was quite adamant that X should not have a multicam feature that could handle more than 8 angles - he didn't want the programmers wasting their time and spending their source code allocation making a 25 angle multicam feature. He couldn't imagine anyone needing such a thing. I'm guessing that now that's he's cutting a 14 angle multicam music video he's doing it with an Avid.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:49:33 pm

[Herb Sevush] "All I want is clarity - kill it or not, just let everyone know so we can move on."

But then you wouldn't break down and buy the 2010 model so that Apple can empty out its inventory.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:53:42 pm

[Gary Huff] "But then you wouldn't break down and buy the 2010 model so that Apple can empty out its inventory."

That actually augers in favor of a line refresh. If they are EOLing there will be a rush to buy the last remaining units for spares and so on. It's only if they are bringing out new models that you have to coerce the unwary to buy out the old line at full price.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:02:39 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "OK, so if you're sticking to FCP Legend,"

I gotta say I like that! FCP Legend. So much better than Legacy.


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:05:55 am

[Chris Harlan] "I gotta say I like that! FCP Legend."

As in "never existed" or "exaggerated beyond anything resembling what actually happened?"

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:09:38 am

[Tim Wilson] "beyond anything resembling what actually happened"

Heroes of old


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:18:01 am

[Richard Herd] "Heroes of old"

Exactly my point. Heroes of old are almost ALWAYS exaggerated or distorted. Per Wikipedia:

"A majority of legends operate within the realm of uncertainty, never being entirely believed by the participants, but also never being resolutely doubted."

I also love their list of example legends. For the record, FCP would be alphabetized between "Eldorado" and "Fountain of Youth."


  • Atlantis
  • The founding of Tenochtitlan, Aztec Capital
  • Big Foot
  • Cenodoxus, or the Damnation of the Good Doctor of Paris, told as an event justifying the sanctification of St. Bruno
  • Celtic Legends
  • El Dorado
  • Fountain of Youth
  • Helen of Troy and the Trojan War
  • King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table
  • Legends of Africa
  • Odysseus
  • Philosopher's stone
  • Robin Hood
  • Romulus and Remus and the founding of Rome
  • Shangri-La
  • Táin Bó Flidhais
  • Vlad the Impaler; stories of his cruelty have attained legendary status, most likely spread after his death by his enemies.
  • William Tell



I'm kidding around, but that's why *I* found "FCP Legend" so funny. Consider me to be LOL-ing...which I actually did.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:36:28 am

[Tim Wilson] "Exactly my point. Heroes of old are almost ALWAYS exaggerated or distorted"

That's where it's headed.

M100 blew the doors off 2010 FCP's media management in 1999.

Legend?


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:43:37 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "M100 blew the doors off 2010 FCP's media management in 1999.

Legend?"


Harder to say as it recedes into the mists of time, but my Media 100 kept me laughing so hard at FCP that I just couldn't imagine why anyone would put themselves through such misery.

Of course I was laughing harder at Avid, but still. Media 100 was the best anything of anything.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:47:40 am

[Tim Wilson] "Harder to say as it recedes into the mists of time, but my Media 100 kept me laughing so hard at FCP that I just couldn't imagine why anyone would put themselves through such misery.

Of course I was laughing harder at Avid, but still. Media 100 was the best anything of anything."


I'm sticking with "FCP Legend"!


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 4:45:41 am

True. Legend. I stopped using it in 1998 after they promised to have more than 1 video track for 2 years. Sure it's easy to use when it has 1 video track!


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 5:19:44 am

You should have waited until 1999 (maybe 2000).

Graphics tracks became video tracks, and at first it was something like 4 graphics tracks, then it went up to more if I remember correctly.

Still had the a/b video track though.

It had automatic duck to AE before automatic duck.

Real time alpha channels, that was pre-1999 (Animation codec no less).

Once M100 HD came out and there was the one really nice last M100 hardware box, it had real time chromakey, up/down/cross conversion with easy to use gui PAR conversions. A really great hardware deinterlacing system.

It had zillions of real time GUI audio effects and a pretty great bussing system that was getting more and more powerful with each point release.

It had a minimal click recapture to online. Sharing projects, or parts of projects was easy, it had a sweet binned nesting system.

It had Autodesk Cleaner.

Cleaner.

Terrible color correction. In app compositing was rough before Boris took over. Varicam support took forever, 24p support to a long while.

Never the less, it was quite an app/hardware for a g4 and early g5s.


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 2, 2012 at 3:58:27 am

You might get a trip out of this. This is a website I made. My first. It's stuck in time. I left the company to go freelance 1/1/98. The owner has a new company and I have no idea why this website is still online, untouched for 14 YEARS! The prices, the images, the demos all just as I left them. I wonder if anyone is paying for it. It's bizarre. But it shows the Media100 and Avid we had and lists specs. I love how we brag about the 50gigs of storage we had. I think it was a stack of drives 3 feet tall.

http://www.visarts.com/home.html


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 5:41:51 am

I love "Game of Thrones."


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:18:16 am

[Tim Wilson] "[Chris Harlan] "I gotta say I like that! FCP Legend."

As in "never existed" or "exaggerated beyond anything resembling what actually happened?"
"


Naw. You've descended into myth. That FCP once existed is still historically possible, though not verifiable. There are stories, though, that once there was a mighty editing platform that...


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:07:06 am

[Chris Harlan] "I gotta say I like that! FCP Legend. So much better than Legacy."

It seems to be what it's turning in to!


Return to posts index

Phil Hoppes
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:35:04 pm

MacPro's represent a laughable insignificant portion of Apple's revenue. Giving it way more than it deserves it can't be more than 20k to 30k units a year. Assume an ASP of 5K which again is far too much on the high side an you get 100M - 150M. The last FY reports put Apple's annual revenue at 109B dollars. That is a whopping 0.14% of annual revenue. Apple's revenue is continuing to go up and MacPro revenue is going down so you have a product line that represents 0.14% of your annual revenue and it is rapidly approaching negative zero.

Do you really have to ask WHY Apple would want to keep this product line around? Come on really?


Return to posts index

Alan Okey
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on May 31, 2012 at 11:56:44 pm

[Phil Hoppes] "MacPro's represent a laughable insignificant portion of Apple's revenue. Giving it way more than it deserves it can't be more than 20k to 30k units a year. Assume an ASP of 5K which again is far too much on the high side an you get 100M - 150M. The last FY reports put Apple's annual revenue at 109B dollars. That is a whopping 0.14% of annual revenue. Apple's revenue is continuing to go up and MacPro revenue is going down so you have a product line that represents 0.14% of your annual revenue and it is rapidly approaching negative zero.

Do you really have to ask WHY Apple would want to keep this product line around? Come on really?"


Glad to see someone gets it.


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:06:58 am

There's two simple reasons:

1. Loss leader; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader
2. Brand recognition.

Some folks on this particular board admitted to using them because that's "pro" equipment.

I would argue an IRR is a more accurate accounting method rather than a percentage of gross sales. If a business unit is making money, there's no reason to cease it -- just the opposite. It should be grown.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:44:50 am

Brand recognition?

Apple needs to gain brand recognition from a MacPro?


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 8:39:17 am

Easy answer. Uh...yeah. What I mean is "this is obvious." Currently apple = iGadget. Growing brand recognition=

It's a dialectic, IMO.

I don't work for apple.

I like apple because of Lode Runner, circa 1985.

Honestly, I'm about out of jokes, saddest clown ever.

Truth is, multiple formats, multiple shooters, instant editing, export...doh! "share" are well designed tools. Cutting in X is also very smooth.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 3:38:40 pm

[Richard Herd] "Growing brand recognition="

Using celebrities in thier ads? Famous ones?

[Richard Herd] "I like apple because of Lode Runner, circa 1985."

You and me both, Rich. You and me both:







Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 3:41:59 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Or why it can't support... "

OR...why it can't do what HP, ProMAX, Dell, etc do today, in the real world. It's actually a pretty fixed target that I think everyone here would be ecstatic if Apple came even vaguely near. Don't need a ringer when a leaner will do.

(What? It's after Memorial Day. You people don't have your horseshoes out?)



[Jeremy Garchow] "[Richard Herd] "Growing brand recognition="

Using celebrities in thier ads? Famous ones?"


Is Justin Long famous?

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 3:46:03 pm

[Tim Wilson] "OR...why it can't what HP, ProMAX, Dell, etc) do today, in the real world. It's actually a pretty fixed target that I think everyone here would be ecstatic if Apple came even vaguely near. Don't need a ringer when a leaner will do."

You mean build a MacPro just like it is, maybe add a thunderbolt port and the new sizzle cores?

[Tim Wilson] "Is Justin Long famous?"

Not Sam "Hot-spacho" Jackson, Zooey Deschanel, or John Malkovich famous.


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 4:03:10 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Tim Wilson] "Don't need a ringer when a leaner will do."

You mean build a MacPro just like it is, maybe add a thunderbolt port and the new sizzle cores?"


Look at this thread and tell me that one just like it is with a speedbump and hole in the chassis is a leaner. It's more like throwing a bone than a horseshoe.



[Tim Wilson] "Is Justin Long famous?"

Not Sam "Hot-spacho" Jackson, Zooey Deschanel, or John Malkovich famous."

Ah, that's for iDevices. Apple's not abandoning those.

I guess that's the true sign that Apple is abandoning the Mac Pro. Their last spokesperson for Mac was a fictitious character.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 4:36:55 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Ah, that's for iDevices. Apple's not abandoning those."

But Rich is saying Apple needs the MacPro for brand recognition, and asked what else do they have besides Apple - iDevice

I said, famous celebrities selling Siri.

Did Apple have a "I'm a Mac" MacPro commerical?

I thought those were laptops and imacs.


Return to posts index

Paul Dickin
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 4:53:51 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Did Apple have a "I'm a Mac" MacPro commerical?"
Hi
I can't find the quote, but I remember a report sometime in 2006/7/8-ish that Steve Jobs had decided that G5 supercomputer-style ads (and three-GHz-in-a-year's-time keynote pronouncements) were no longer relevant.

Basically he'd said that the Mac fanbase were making such a good ongoing marketing pitch that Apple could in future just sit back and let it rip...

Same as is happening now ;-)

That initial fans-do-the-work situation lasted until the 2008 dropping of the Firewire port on the 13" unibody MacBook - Petition #1 (18600+ signatures) maybe helped to get it reinstated...


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 5:18:56 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Did Apple have a "I'm a Mac" MacPro commerical?

I thought those were laptops and imacs."


I had to look this up. There were 66 commercials in 4 years, but I couldn't find any of them that mentioned a specific model by name. They definitely referred to Mac computers in general, though, as well as the Mac OS vs. Windows software, especially Vista.

But certainly, the cartoonish aspect spoke more to the iMac and MacBook sensibility, leaving us at the "supercomputer" tank commercial the last one for Mac Pros...oops, and quite cartoonish at that....

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 5:27:10 pm

[Tim Wilson] "tank commercial the last one for Mac Pros."

That was a Power Mac if memory serves me.

Can you think of a reason to use a mass advertising medium like TV to advertise a tower computer to a niche market? Check the number of HPZ800 you see on TV as well, for example.

One might look at advertising in industry trades. There's also product placement by other advertisers. One might check the number of ads in video post trade publications that have a MacPro in the ad. While that might be rare now, I think that was not that uncommon just a couple of years back.



Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:05:14 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Can you think of a reason to use a mass advertising medium like TV"

Exactly my point. It makes no sense at all, any more than it makes sense for Apple to go to trade shows. We'd gotten off on a bit of a tangent about Apple needing, or not needing, to build brand recognition. I side with the folks who say that we lot (or more accurately, YOU lot...nothing personal) aren't adding anything to Apple's brand value.

Nor for that matter does anything but iPhone and iPad advertising. Those are the mass market products, they should be getting all the attention. That's just smart.

So apologies for taking the most weisenheimer-ish aspect of the thread into the weeds.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:10:15 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Exactly my point. It makes no sense at all, any more than it makes sense for Apple to go to trade shows"

Yet I saw them at the local Blackmagic show along with Adobe and Avid. It did shock me. Not that that's a trade show but it's good to see them participating in a supporting company's road show. Of course it was 2011 iMacs and not 2010 MacPros though. Magma was also there showing off the Magma Thunderbolt PCIe chassis.



Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:55:28 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Yet I saw them at the local Blackmagic show along with Adobe and Avid. It did shock me."

Ah, see now, road shows, Apple has always done those exactly right -- a couple of guys, making a big impact on people who are there for BUSINESS. I did many, many of these with Apple guys over the years, and think the world of the Apple people I worked with.

I can't think of anything I've said about Apple that I'd take back, but I certainly regret if anything I've said reflects poorly on those folks. Some of the sharpest people I've ever met, and zeroed in on this market like few people I've met anywhere.

Since you mentioned New York, I'll mention that I'm especially fond of the Apple guys there. I worked with them quite regularly, including at good old user groups.

The thing is, NAB has its virtues, but these post-show road events are where it's at for many, many vendors. I recommend pretty much every one of them. :-)

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 7:15:44 pm

[Tim Wilson] "including at good old user groups. "

I remember seeing you present for Boris. Too bad the Sony FS700 wasn't around then because you'd really have to be recorded at 240fps so you could be played back at normal speed ;-)



[Tim Wilson] "but these post-show road events are where it's at for many, many vendors."

It seems that Apple is just starting up these appearances again. Others have posted that they didn't see Apple at the ones preceding on the west coast. I think it's a good sign that Apple may heading down this road (show) again. I can't remember the last time I saw a table with Apple employee next to an Avid and Adobe table.



Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 2, 2012 at 12:18:15 am

[Craig Seeman] "[Tim Wilson] "including at good old user groups. "

I remember seeing you present for Boris. Too bad the Sony FS700 wasn't around then because you'd really have to be recorded at 240fps so you could be played back at normal speed ;-)


Haha! I slowed down a lot, but became a lot more evil. LOL

My worst year was almost 200 days away from home. I eventually got down to almost no travel for Boris before Avid revved me back up -- among the many reasons I'm happy to be off the corporate hamster wheel.

But I'd be lying if I said I didn't love the actual presentations. I really really did. I also took some pride that a reel of my presentations played in the Avid lobby for nearly two years after I was gone. Or so I'm told. When I was gone, I was gone. LOL

(And for all that corporate life wasn't a good fit for me as me, the folks at Avid were incredibly kind and supportive of me. As for that matter were the people I knew at Apple. I had a lot of fun working the Apple booth at NAB in 2003, and nothing but good things to say about the Apple peeps I met.)


[Tim Wilson] "but these post-show road events are where it's at for many, many vendors."

It seems that Apple is just starting up these appearances again. Others have posted that they didn't see Apple at the ones preceding on the west coast. I think it's a good sign that Apple may heading down this road (show) again. I can't remember the last time I saw a table with Apple employee next to an Avid and Adobe table."


I rolled out Boris RED 3 at the same time that Apple was rolling out FCP 3, and Brian Meaney and I did a number of presentations at the same meetings, including Boston and LA.

But now that you mention it, it really was mostly the upper east coast that I saw the Apple guys, one based in NYC, the other in the countryside. I'd mention their names because they deserve it, but they probably don't deserve being associated with me anymore. LOL

As a corporate dude, roadshows were some of my favorite things. I didn't have to be a solo demo monkey for 15 or minutes, only to wait three or four times that long through raffles (you know who you are, UG peeps). Instead, I got to be part of a good-sized team from the company I was with, and from each of the other companies, and quite often, catering! Woo-hoo! I really got to TALK with people in ways that were simply impossible in a booth, and I learned a lot from the other vendors myself.

Really, truly, whoever comes near your town, GO. Even if it's not your A1 vendor, you'll meet peers, highly capable company people, and often get a chance to see other products you're interested in as part of table demos.

So, more props to Apple's NY team, and I'd really love to see Apple do more of these.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:49:29 pm

[Tim Wilson] "[Tim Wilson] "Is Justin Long famous?"

Not Sam "Hot-spacho" Jackson, Zooey Deschanel, or John Malkovich famous."

Ah, that's for iDevices. Apple's not abandoning those.

I guess that's the true sign that Apple is abandoning the Mac Pro. Their last spokesperson for Mac was a fictitious character.
"



Ah, once though--back in the Middle Earth world of the G5s--the Power Mac did have celebrity pull. Here's the legendary Jeff Goldblum giving voice to the world's most powerful personal computer:







Of course, you actually get to see him in this commercial that is a wee bit closer to Apple's truer nature. We're all just part of the party, after all.







Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 6:54:41 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Ah, once though--back in the Middle Earth world of the G5s--the Power Mac did have celebrity pull. Here's the legendary Jeff Goldblum giving voice to the world's most powerful personal computer:"

I have never witnessed that one, or remember it on any level. Nice one.

Don't they assign email addresses at birth now?


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 7:14:06 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Don't they assign email addresses at birth now?"

It's all part of being part of the party.


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 8:50:53 am

Yeah. Some folks buy "pro" equipment because that's what pros use, the halo effect.


Return to posts index

Phil Hoppes
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:11:58 am

You need a loss leader when you have a very broad product line and you are trying to entice customers in to see all you have to offer. Apple has to have the largest revenue based on the fewest products bar none. They have no need for a loss leader.

Brand Recognition in this case is also bogus. They have 10s if not 100s of millions of customers for iProducts. They don't need product recognition for 20k customers a year

IRR is interesting but again not for what amount to mouse nuts worth of revenue


Return to posts index

Kevin Monahan
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 2:36:09 am

I loved M100! M100 and After Effects to be precise. ;-)

If it doesn't work out for ya'll in the next few weeks, I'm quite happy with a PC tower on my left, and a MacBook Pro on my right. I don't do any of my email, blogging, photos, or music on the PC. That's for the Mac. Good for lightweight editing stuff too.

If there is any heavy lifting to do, (say, ray-traced 3D compositions in AE, or editing RED footage natively), you do need serious power. A system might include a solid state boot drive, a dozen or more CPUs, a GPU of 2GB or more, 32-64 GB RAM, multiple slots, etc.

When you're editing or compositing, I don't miss Mac OS too much. When you're working in the Adobe apps, there is no difference in the UI at all. Oh, warning, the fonts in the menus are different!

Still, I'm all for it should Apple be releasing a new "tower" that rivals that HP machine Tim was talking about.

Kevin Monahan
Sr. Content and Community Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 9:03:04 am

Let's do some actuals.

Just to be clear: you think Apple will renege on .14% of $109,000,000,000.00. i think they will grow that .14%

You think Apple is actively seeking to annihilate $152,600,000.00 in gross receipts.

Please check my math.

I am reading you say that Apple does not care about $152M in GR.

Suffice it to say: I disagree. I believe that's a lot of money. I believe apple believes that is a lot of money. I believe apple believes closing their pro editing market diminishes their brand.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 3:40:46 pm

[Richard Herd] "I am reading you say that Apple does not care about $152M in GR."

What if it cost $150.9M to make/distribute them?


Return to posts index

Phil Hoppes
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 2, 2012 at 1:23:15 am

[Richard Herd] " I believe that's a lot of money. I believe apple believes that is a lot of money. I believe apple believes closing their pro editing market diminishes their brand."

It is not that it is not a lot of money. It is nothing to Apple's major revenue product lines. I've worked for companies that dropped significantly larger percentages of their annual revenue for a multitude of reasons. All Apple has to do is increase their iPad revenue by 1% (June 2011 annual revenue of 16B for iPads) and they would make that 150M up in a heartbeat. The revenue slope of workstations in general is flat to moderately increasing. The revenue slope of iPads and iPhones is going through the roof. As a prudent business manager you invest in growing markets not declining ones. Apple is investing in the Pro market to... with high end iMacs. It is simply their view of the high end they want to invest in is not the view you want them to invest.


Return to posts index

Paul Jay
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 7:34:08 am

CS6 screams on an SSD and Thunderbolt iMac i7.
Thunderbolt Broadcast I/o and storage works just as flawless as on a pcie.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:33:30 pm

[Paul Jay] "Thunderbolt Broadcast I/o and storage works just as flawless as on a pcie."

And you say that having a lot of experience cutting multicam on this system? Just asking because I had to pony up a lot of money to get some seriously fast Raid storage ( 900 MB/s ) to handle my multicam requirements. So how fast does your Tbolt storage run?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Dennis Radeke
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:51:37 pm

I'll take a whack at answering without reading all of the responses. Of course, it's important for me to say this is my personal opinion only!

- MONEY: traditional tower markets are shrinking though still vital to certain market segments. In short, people who buy towers are not a big enough market for the machine that is Apple. Let me give you a choice - you can only pick one! A) make something that makes you some hundreds of millions of dollars. B) make something that makes you some tens of billions of dollars. Which do you choose. Right, Apple did too...
- Tower customers are NOT APPLE'S TARGET anymore. Towers don't fit nicely into the digital hub of Apple anymore. For that matter, any traditional computer (IMO) will become a spoke instead of a hub as they invest more into iCloud.
- Thunderbolt is their future so PCI-E is not. Audio and video devices will be thunderbolt moving forward.

There are others like ancient case design, costing more than a PC, etc. but I will assume that many have already chimed in on those.


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 2:03:56 pm

[Steve Connor] "and I'll be sad that we'll all have to stop talking about it when the new MacPro is announced in the next couple of weeks :)"

The coolest thing for Apple -- they'll sell an almost infinite number of these things. Mac Pro fans will hoard them like gold, or freeze-dried chicken a la king, to prepare for the coming "abandoning pros FOR REALS this time" apocalypse.

All the while, lamenting what this machine SHOULD have been, but can never possibly be. As a result, Apple releasing the kind of Mac Pro that Apple ALWAYS releases -- underspec'd in nearly every way but silver-ness and Mac OS X-ness -- will be nevertheless seen as a portent of said apocalypse.

There is always another shoe to drop.

And if Apple doesn't say what needs to be said in a couple of weeks, it will be raining shoes.


If the axe has indeed already fallen, I agree with others who have said that "Apple is just selling off inventory" seems unlikely. It's more likely that have pretty accurately gauged inertial demand, and are just making enough of them to both hide that it really HAS been EOL'd, and not leave that money on the table.

I mean, Apple EOL'd FCP in 2009. You could even argue that they EOL'd it in 2007 (the ProRes release), and 2009 was that last patch slapped on while it was circling the drain.

2011 is just the year they stopped SELLING it -- not because they had excess inventory, but because there was no reason to leave that money on the table for all those years.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

Don Scioli
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 10:08:52 pm

I'll start off this reply by saying that you all with think I'm nuts or smoking the weed or both. But I swear this happened.

About a month ago I HAD A DREAM, a real dream, not the beginning of a fairy tale, but some of you may think this in fact is a fairy tale,but it was as real a dream as I or anyone can have. I was hanging out with Steve Jobs, he was gone of course and we talked and hiked around the Palo Alto hills for a while, and he was really friendly and funny. This went on for awhile, then I was driving him back to his house in Los Altos and I finally worked up the nerve to ask him if Apple was coming out with a new Mac Pro. He looked at me as if that was the most ridiculous thing anyone could ever say. Of course, he said, what are you thinking, Apple would always make a computer like that. I dripped him off, we said goodbye and that was that.

I awoke from the dream with that kind of dream feeling you had as a kid, that all was right with the world. I knew it was true.

Full disclosure. I read the Isaacson book about 6 months previous, and I met Jobs in the late 80's as part of a film project, but had not been thinking about him for a while. I leave it up to the reader to make a judgement.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 10:40:28 pm

[Don Scioli] "I dripped him off, we said goodbye and that was that."

Hmmm, so he's in a liquid state now?
The only this amiss is that he didn't ask you sign an NDA. Maybe this is why Tim Cook is doubling down on secrecy since dream Steve is a leak... which might explain "dripped."



Return to posts index

Robert Brown
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 1, 2012 at 10:29:55 pm

I don't think the new Mac Pro is coming but it is breathing really hard.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Why do you think a new Mac Pro ISN'T coming?
on Jun 2, 2012 at 12:20:18 am

[Robert Brown] "I don't think the new Mac Pro is coming but it is breathing really hard."

Post of the week.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]