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Gerry Fraiberg
Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 5:16:49 pm

A petition on Facebook asking Apple for information on when -- or whether -- it'll be launching any new Mac Pro is starting to pick up momentum.

Read the rest of the story on CNET

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57441468-37/mac-pro-petition-gaining-stea...



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Lloyd Aygun
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 6:25:47 pm

Sorry but I just don't think it will happen. I would love a new MP but from Apples point of view they just don't sell enough of them, now whether that's down to the fact they haven't updated them in so long is a bit of a which comes first "chicken or egg" situation but still they're going the way of the Xserve.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 6:55:18 pm

[Lloyd Aygun] "Sorry but I just don't think it will happen. I would love a new MP but from Apples point of view they just don't sell enough of them, now whether that's down to the fact they haven't updated them in so long is a bit of a which comes first "chicken or egg" situation but still they're going the way of the Xserve."

Agreed. The Facebook petition makes some fundamental mistakes in my opinion. The MacPro is not the only form factor or method to deliver a professional computer.

People may want Xeon processors and 16xGPU support. It may not be a MacPro though.
Also they'd have to make a good financial case to be persuasive. Now if they had hundreds of thousands committing to buy a MacPro and can assure that as many would sell next year rather than 3 years from now, they might have a stronger and more persuasive argument.

While I want the Power, I don't want the Tower.



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Clint Wardlow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 7:07:41 pm

[Craig Seeman] "While I want the Power, I don't want the Tower."

The problem is that I don't see any indication from Apple that we are going to see either in the near future. So what do we do in the interim?

I know it has never really been their way, I just wish Apple would give us some concrete map of their future plans. Thunderbolt has potential, but in its current state really doesn't address GPU/CPU.


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Andrew Richards
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 7:12:38 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "The problem is that I don't see any indication from Apple that we are going to see either in the near future."

How near? One way or the other we'll have some kind of answer this summer. Apple can't keep sleepwalking with the old (current) Mac Pro as Intel phases out the manufacture of its guts.

Best,
Andy


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Clint Wardlow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 7:22:12 pm

[Andrew Richards] "How near? One way or the other we'll have some kind of answer this summer. Apple can't keep sleepwalking with the old (current) Mac Pro as Intel phases out the manufacture of its guts."

So you think Apple will make an announcement for their future in high-end computing this summer? Or just give us a yay or nay on Mac Pro?

I am kind of curious to see if they follow Craig's vision of a modular design or just beef up the all-in-one model.


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Andrew Richards
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 7:29:51 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "So you think Apple will make an announcement for their future in high-end computing this summer? Or just give us a yay or nay on Mac Pro? "

I think they have to, they can't just keep making the current one forever. I think there is something coming, and I agree with Craig it probably won't be called the Mac Pro or be a large tower form factor.

[Clint Wardlow] "I am kind of curious to see if they follow Craig's vision of a modular design or just beef up the all-in-one model."

I know what I want it to be, mostly spec-wise, but I honestly can't settle on a pet theory. Could be anything from the purported iMac Pro to something like a much larger Mac mini. I'm as anxious as everyone to find out.

Best,
Andy


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 7:58:17 pm

I "liked" the FB page but not holding my breath. Truth is if you're not using FCPX or waiting for Smoke for Mac 13 there is no reason to use a Mac for post. Avid, Pro Tools, CS6, Vegas Pro all run on faster, more upgradeable PCs.

I'm hoping for an uber iMac with new CPU tech and faster graphics. With 2 channels of Thunderbolt I have enough fast connectivity to run a nice post station.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 8:25:18 pm

dont worry guys

the internet will fix it


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Bret Williams
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 10:46:25 pm

Except perhaps my whole world, home and work is Mac. It's not just the computer investment, it's the software. And the learning curve. A good chunk of the day is dealing with the OS. I remember the days when I'd edit Avid on Mac and then the next week on PC. You forget just how much of the job is knowing about the WHOLE tool you're using. It's part of ones skill set. I can throw a Mac system together and install software and configure and troubleshoot without thinking. I wouldn't have a clue where a preference pane is on windows. Wouldn't know what virus software to use. Wouldn't know much of anything.


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Bret Williams
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 10:47:40 pm

And I'm waiting on Smoke. CS6 ain't it. FCP7 is dead. And X doesn't play with others. It's no fun to go back to Avid.


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John Davidson
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 10:57:46 pm

We're in the same boat - but I'm finding that we're all actually excited to get all our new projects into X. Perhaps WWDC will have some hardware goodness for us all.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 25, 2012 at 11:41:29 pm

Let's hope so. I'm waiting for Smoke too and don't want to run it on a MacBook...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Andrew Richards
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 26, 2012 at 1:49:56 pm

[Bret Williams] "And X doesn't play with others."

10.0 didn't, but doesn't the XML round-tripping with Resolve, XML out to Smoke, and AAF out (though via X2Pro) count for something?

Best,
Andy


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Alan Okey
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 26, 2012 at 12:36:32 am

Honestly, guys, Apple is just Over It. You "pro" users are too small of a niche, and too big of a pain in the ass to bother with anymore. The iMac is the new high end of Apple hardware. Get used to it, or abandon ship and embrace your new Windows overlords.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 26, 2012 at 1:09:39 am

Well I'm not ready to give up. There are apparently a lot of us professionals using FCP 7, trying FCPX and Premiere Pro, moving back to Avid, waiting for Smoke, who want to stay on MacPro's and not move to Windows (I for one never will). I encourage everyone who is happiest on a Mac, a powerful expandable one, to Like this new FB page We Want a New MacPro http://www.facebook.com/MacProsPlease closing in on 10,000 Likes in two days! An iMac just doesn't cut it.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 26, 2012 at 2:19:21 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "who want to stay on MacPro's and not move to Windows (I for one never will)."

I'd be ready to eat those words if I were you.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 26, 2012 at 4:23:43 pm

Not a chance. My 2010 5.1 MacPro will serve me well with current and undoubtedly future software until I hang up my video cameras. Straight photography after that. Feel sorry for those who would have to go to Windows. Been there, done that. Would rather do self flagellation.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 26, 2012 at 5:01:52 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "Would rather do self flagellation."

Your anti-Windows bias is quite out of date.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 26, 2012 at 5:29:02 pm

It is not a bias, it comes from experience, negative with Windows, positive with OSX. That's all I have to say about that (and with this whole PC vs Mac subject).

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 28, 2012 at 3:00:41 pm

Since Apple aren't helping you, you might as well give in and help yourself. Go here - http://tonymacx86.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/CustoMac

Build. It's easy stuff, and you can have the very latest gear with OSX, if that's what you want. A Mac is just an operating system these days. It's ok, but Windows 7 is just as good, and better in some ways. It's a bit strange to hear that ancient stuff about "never Windows". Sounds very 1995.

B


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 28, 2012 at 5:52:23 pm

[Bernard Newnham] " It's a bit strange to hear that ancient stuff about "never Windows". Sounds very 1995.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I go back and forth routinely (I'm on Win7 right now as a matter of fact). They are both valid choices and each has its quirks that annoy me sometimes.

Saying that you'd rather beat yourself with knotted ropes than use Win7, especially when the possibility looms that Apple is going to go full-on consumer, is ridiculous hyperbole and out of touch with developments over the last few years.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 28, 2012 at 5:55:34 pm

I've found the different responses to this thread on the different forums absolutely fascinating.

Here on the FCPX or Not forum, the response has been largely hopeful. On the the FCP7 forum, the response was pretty fatalistic. On the Premiere Pro forum, the response was largely, "So what? Buy a PC."

Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle: I've gone cross-platform. I'm exposed to the best of both the PC and Mac platforms while mitigating my exposure to platform-specific risks.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 28, 2012 at 8:33:52 pm

I believe those knotted ropes were mine. Hyperbolic sarcasm to say the least. But why would I want to spend at least 5 to 10k (or much more) on an HP workstation (who just laid of 27,000 employees and makes the only PC I have seen that has engineering quality of build even approaching a Mac Pro) running an operating system I truly don't like when my Mac Pro 5.1 2010 with NVidia card runs one that I do? Why wouldn't I root for it to continue to be upgraded to future performance standards? Why would I want to give up thousands of dollars of Mac specific software to purchase thousands more of Windows software? Sure, CS6 is cross platform, maybe a couple of others I use, but not many I wouldn't have to pay for. Media 100 Suite 2.1, an often overlooked but extremely stable and easy to use editor, that will do RED 4K RAW, that I know well for one. Also Avid MC 6 which seems to run perfectly on the Mac as well as Windows, and who knows, I'm open to FCPX if Apple gets serious about it. Smoke is coming. In my financial position, my point in my career, the fact that I don't do effects heavy work (3D, etc.) and given my obvious preference for OSX, it is a no brainer. Sticking with the Mac here. Hoping they continue to develop it because I think the Mac OS/hardware model is clearly superior. Probably pass on the flagellation.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 28, 2012 at 10:15:03 pm

"But why would I want to spend at least 5 to 10k (or much more) on an HP workstation? "

Indeed - why would you? You can buy a Bugatti Veyron and go to the shops with it if you want, but something a little cheaper will do just as good a job - and HP workstations are the PC equivalent. You just don't need the "build quality" to get the job done. And that's probably why they're laying off staff - wrong product for the market.

As for OSX v W7 - personally, like lots of other here, I just switch back and forth these days. Like using my wife's car instead of mine to go to the shops. No big deal, and not much difference. 1995 was a good long time ago now.

B


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Tim Wilson
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 28, 2012 at 10:20:35 pm

As noted in an earlier thread, HP's layoffs represent 7% of its total workforce, and will be spread across the next two and a half years. most of them are in the printing division. This is far from catastrophic.

My own theory is that EVERY company with 369,000 employees (compared to about 60K at Apple) would do well to trim 7% of them in the next two and a half years.

I still believe Apple will release a new Mac Pro, and am frankly mystified by the people who are sure they won't. When will you people relax and realize that I'M ALWAYS RIGHT??? LOL

here's something I AM right about. Apple will not add two more card slots, two more drive bays, TWELVE more RAM slots, and high end graphics. Okay, the last one is a maybe, as is Apple adding 4 more cores....ALL of which they'll have to do to match an HP Z820.

And add next business day shipping of replacement parts, even if you're in a different country than you bought it in, and cover accidental damage, for less than the current price of Applecare. Not gonna happen.

I'm just saying, OS is OS, money is money, but if you want the baddest computer with the best coverage, from the only company with a workstation division devoted to media and entertainment, you aren't holding your breath waiting for Apple.

PS. Sorry about any spellings stupider than usual, or autocorrect humiliations. Typing on a phone...

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 12:43:53 am

It isn't just the layoffs. HP Profit was down 44% in the first quarter, 31% in the second current quarter. Stock down substantially, thus the layoffs. Previous CEO almost shut down the PC division because of lack of profitability. "The overall PC industry is stuck in neutral, but HP (HPQ, Fortune 500), the world's largest computer maker, is traveling in reverse at high speed. The company's PC sales fell 15% during the holiday season, with consumer computer sales tumbling 25%". Quote CNN Money. HP stock is down 40% over the last year, Apple is up 168%. That's if you are interested in financials. Apple is growing revenue and stock price at a huge rate. Very profitable. Even if it is mostly in the consumer area, it does mean the company will be in the computer business well into the future. Macs, especially laptops, and iPads, are selling extremely well.

I agree, I think there will be a new Mac Pro. Rumors have it that it will be Ivy Bridge EP/EX with duals up to 6, 8 and possibly 10 cores (probably too expensive). An E version single processor could be out sooner. The other rumor is NVidia Kepler/Tesla GPU. All rumors, but supposedly well sourced with code for new NVidia graphics in builds of Mountain Lion. It may not equal the ultimate specs of that particular HP workstation line at that time in all subsystems, but I am sure it will be more than enough. Over 12,257 likes on Facebook seemingly anxious for the Mac Pro upgrade. If you like Windows, I have no interest in trying to change your mind. If it does what you need, use it. I obviously like the Mac and it's OS, and will continue to prefer it. We will obviously know about the future of the Mac Pro in the next 6 months. Either way my 2010 5.1 will serve me well for quite a while.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Walter Soyka
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 1:04:24 am

[Jim Wiseman] " It isn't just the layoffs. HP Profit was down 44% in the first quarter, 31% in the second current quarter. Stock down substantially, thus the layoffs. Previous CEO almost shut down the PC division because of lack of profitability. "The overall PC industry is stuck in neutral, but HP (HPQ, Fortune 500), the world's largest computer maker, is traveling in reverse at high speed. The company's PC sales fell 15% during the holiday season, with consumer computer sales tumbling 25%". Quote CNN Money. HP stock is down 40% over the last year, Apple is up 168%. That's if you are interested in financials. Apple is growing revenue and stock price at a huge rate. Very profitable. Even if it is mostly in the consumer area, it does mean the company will be in the computer business well into the future. Macs, especially laptops, and iPads, are selling extremely well. "

Did you abandon Apple during the 1990s and early 2000s when their stock was low and their prospects bleak?.

If you look at independent workstation research like Jon Peddie's reports, you'll see that workstations are an area where HP does very, very well. If you look at Apple's own financials, you'll see that the consumer business is the driving force behind those massive profits you referred to. You could argue from either direction which is better for users like us.

This notion that [insert-a-PC-vendor-here] is doing poorly is beside the point. Since PCs are relatively open, any Windows PC vendor can fail tomorrow and its users will still have options. Apple just has to elect to stop supporting their workstations and that's that.

This is not to say that another Apple workstation wouldn't be nice, but without some serious recommitment to the market place, it's just hitting the reset button on the death watch countdown timer. We'll all be wondering if there will be another Mac Pro in 2015.

Apple doesn't just have to manufacture some workstations. They also have to earn back some trust.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 1:16:58 am

"Apple just has to elect to stop supporting their workstations and that's that".

And that is precisely why 12,500 and growing people have made themselves heard on Facebook and why I posted the link to that page here in the first place. The Mac has always been unique, in the lean years, that was quite clearly a disadvantage (I was the only Avid Reseller in Hawaii at the time, also Media 100). But it has turned out to be it's biggest advantage. Full integration of hardware/software and OS. But to say the workstation business at HP is doing very well will only help you if they spin it off, not kill it as they almost did last year. Nothing is certain in this business.

BTW, I get 24 hour onsite with Applecare even on remote Kauai, Hawaii.

I agree with you on the trust part. FCPX launch was a botch.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Tim Wilson
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 1:54:41 am

24 phone support, sure. Next business day replacement? Coverage if you accidentally pour water on it? Really?

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 2:05:22 am

24 hour on site parts and repair. Replacement 48 hours if no repair possible. Good dealer here, and you can't get much more remote in the US. Maybe Alaska. For 15k$ I'd expect the other HP services although accidental is very nice.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Tim Wilson
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 2:45:31 am

[Jim Wiseman] "Good dealer here,"

Yes, a good dealer. In much of the lower 48, the only dealer is the Apple store. :-)

I'm not sure where the $15K comes from though. You CAN go that high, because, well, you can. Twice as many card slots, twice as many bays, twice as much RAM, and the ability to use a top of the line graphics card, and of course it costs more. But if you want a computer as underpowered as a Mac LOL it's quite comparably priced...except it comes with twice as many slots/bays/RAM slots, and, your local dealer notwithstanding, a corporate commitment to service for high-end customers that Apple has never had.

But it's not about Apple vs. HP. They're playing a different game. If you commit to Apple, you just have to stay aware that they're not as committed to you. You have to commit to a computer that's inevitably hobbled because Apple isn't interested in maximum performance.

This is nothing new. Their commitment to mid-range graphics - or lower- goes back to the beginning. The "world's first supercomputer" was nonsense and they knew it, and so did we, and we all (and I definitely include myself) had a lot of fun with it. But max performance has never been their top priority. It took me over 22 years as a diehard Mac guy to figure that out, and decide that I wasn't going to keep paying Apple to frustrate me.

No boo-hoo Apple doesn't love me, Apple doesn't care about pros. Please. Apple likes me fine, and cares about pros...just not enough for what I need.

It's just an awful lot of energy to expend on a company that's going to do what it does, regardless, and no matter what it does, it will lead the industry in sales and deep, abiding love of its customers and Wall St. But not computing performance, which is the main thing I buy computers for.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 4:06:15 am

These are points well taken. I guess we will see what happens with the Mac Pro soon enough. The one that seems possible via the rumors described above would more than enough performance for me and apparently many others. Ivy Bridge Dual 6/8/MAYBE 10 with NVidia Kepler/Telsa ought to do. Actually, with the software and work flow I currently spend almost all of my time in the one I have now performs quite adequately. I'm not rendering 4k 3D, or extremely complex graphics. Even the current Mac Pros will take 128GB of RAM (OWC) and 12TB (soon 16TB) of storage internally. More if you use one of the optical bays where I have my SSD boot drive. Access to graphics cards is problematic, but that is an EFI vs BIOS thing, and as much up to the card manufacturers as Apple. Looks like Apple and NVidia are taking up with each other on that one.

I suppose an awful lot of it comes down to the OS. Apparently there are a lot of people who really like OS X, some of it's available software and it's secure, solid UNIX base better than they do Windows 7. We will see about 8. I'll give up a few seconds or minutes of render time in my own particular workflow rather than the frustrating time I and others have spent troubleshooting Windows. Maybe it has improved, but I'm not willing to spend thousands of dollars to find out. It isn't always about raw performance, at least to me. OS X just seems a better experience that helps me bring out my best w/o a lot of interference.

Nice jabbering with you. You're the editor, so you will certainly have the last word if you choose. :)) Honestly hope you had a good Memorial Day weekend.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Devin Crane
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 1:09:05 am

My theory is if they were going to kill it they would have done so already, I would imagine that there will be a newly redesigned machine released during WWDC. Possibly one that can be rack mountable and serve as a desktop or server.



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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 2:58:24 pm

[Devin Crane] "My theory is if they were going to kill it they would have done so already, I would imagine that there will be a newly redesigned machine released during WWDC. Possibly one that can be rack mountable and serve as a desktop or server."

And what will the response be if they announce the new Ivy Bridge iMacs, Airs, and the re-designed 15" Pro, but no 17" and no MacPro replacement. What will the response be then?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 3:17:36 pm

[Gary Huff] "And what will the response be if they announce the new Ivy Bridge iMacs, Airs, and the re-designed 15" Pro, but no 17" and no MacPro replacement. What will the response be then?"

For me, if they're still selling MacPros then it's still holding a place for a replacement. Apple with pull the MacPro when they feel it is replaced. I don't know if I'll be happy with the replacement but we'll certainly know when they've made their decision.

17" MBP may be a different situation. It too isn't selling well from what I understand. If people buy it for the screen real estate they may be disappointed when it goes away. If people buy it for CPU/GPU/Expansion then they may find that in the new 15" MBP. I think the 17" MBP is less critical (screen real estate) than the MBP Xeons and two 16xPCIe slots.



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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 3:49:25 pm

I can use eSATA on my 17" because I have an ExpressCard. If that goes away, do I now have to purchase the Sonnet ExpressCard adapter for Thunderbolt in order to duplicate that functionality?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 4:09:12 pm

[Gary Huff] "I can use eSATA on my 17" because I have an ExpressCard. If that goes away, do I now have to purchase the Sonnet ExpressCard adapter for Thunderbolt in order to duplicate that functionality?"

I think that's likely. The issue isn't so much "17 inches" but connectivity. That's going to change I think. One rumor is that a new 15" MBP will have two Thunderbolt ports. That would give you the freedom to buy the connectivity you need. It can vary from person to person so I value the option. I'd actually prefer that to the 17" so I can buy use change adaptors as needed for the job at hand. For example, Express Card when I need it. Two Thunderbolt if I need two camera inputs for live streaming.

I like not having to make either/or choices when I buy a computer. My bigger concern is the number of end chain Thunderbolt devices on the market. Daisy chaining is a nice concept but if most devices don't, you're left with a very limited number of ports to use. So far, mostly hard drives have pass through and mostly everything else doesn't. That's a problem.



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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 4:38:44 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I'd actually prefer that to the 17" so I can buy use change adaptors as needed for the job at hand. For example, Express Card when I need it. Two Thunderbolt if I need two camera inputs for live streaming."

But see, I do a lot of traveling with my MacBook. So now I get to add a rather hefty device to be able to plug in my thin ExpressCard into my backpack in case I need eSATA support.

Your ideal setup is not very practical or elegant for people, like myself, who prefer to travel light and self-contained.

I will absolutely purchase an Ivy Bridge 17" MacBook Pro with ExpressCard, especially if USB3 comes with it. Otherwise, I'm staying put.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 4:57:52 pm

[Gary Huff] "Your ideal setup is not very practical or elegant for people, like myself, who prefer to travel light and self-contained."

Yeah but the laptop will be much lighter and thinner, so it all evens out in the end. :)

This is meant as a joke.


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:10:44 pm

Something else I just thought of. Let's say I get a new 15" Ivy Bridge. So far it's rumored to have 3 USB ports and 2 Thunderbolt ports. What am I supposed to do with my FireWire 800 external drives?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:18:04 pm

[Gary Huff] "Your ideal setup is not very practical or elegant for people, like myself, who prefer to travel light and self-contained."

Interesting because I've thought of the 17" as too large to begin with. I don't like carrying extra things either. I use and MXO2 but I like that the Blackmagic Thunderbolt I/Os don't need a power supply. I guess the ideal is 15" with Express port . . . and why my 2008 15" MBP isn't going away.



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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:22:32 pm

The ExpressCard slot is exactly the reason I got the 17". I think 15" is great, and if Apple provided such, that would be the laptop I would get. However, I'm shoehorned into this size based on my needs.

I do a lot of SxS DIT work and, of course, the ability to connect via eSATA.

I've had a Sony 16" laptop that was a great system, but the Mac is far more portable, despite its size.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:36:53 pm

[Gary Huff] "I do a lot of SxS DIT work"

I shoot primarily with XDCAM EX. These days though I've moved to SDHC adaptors so those built in card slots in the computer have become important to me.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:40:10 pm

I manage media on many shoots from many cameras, so I have a Qio.

At least the Qio will be operational with this new Sonnet box.

It also has a 4 port SATA hook up on it, and can also accept other Express cards if you need something else like fw800.


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:42:09 pm

So Thunderbolt to Sonnet to Qio.

Ugh.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:45:10 pm

[Gary Huff] "So Thunderbolt to Sonnet to Qio.

Ugh."


I guess I don't see this as a big deal as it actually ADDS capability and not removes it.

It also runs faster.

Even with the Qio Express card, it's still a big wart that sticks out of the side of my computer. There's nothing I can do about that, thunderbolt will actually allow better placement of the gear instead of being tethered to the rather inflexible PCIe cable.


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:55:27 pm

If they released a Thunderbolt Qio, that might be tempting.

But it's now at least probably going to be 2013 or later since there was no mention of it at NAB this year.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 6:01:24 pm

[Gary Huff] "If they released a Thunderbolt Qio, that might be tempting."

See, but my investment is "protected". The Qio isn't super cheap, now I will have a card that extends the life of the Qio as well as adding other flexibility without the Qio.

Jeremy


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 6:10:38 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "See, but my investment is "protected". The Qio isn't super cheap, now I will have a card that extends the life of the Qio as well as adding other flexibility without the Qio."

Just a cost of over half what a brand-new 15" MacBook Pro costs, simply to connect ports to your computer.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 6:21:23 pm

[Gary Huff] "Just a cost of over half what a brand-new 15" MacBook Pro costs, simply to connect ports to your computer."

Do you know of a laptop that reads virtually every media card, allows multiple express card and PCMCIA connection, and has a built in 4 port SATA multiplier?

Please point me in the direction...


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 6:24:45 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Do you know of a laptop that reads virtually every media card, allows multiple express card and PCMCIA connection, and has a built in 4 port SATA multiplier?"

I should add, that also connects to a current PCIe infrastructure, so it works on the desktop computers, too.


It's not for everyone, but I love it and saves me from buying all kinds of single adapters with all kinds of differing connections. It's very tidy.


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 6:33:40 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Do you know of a laptop that reads virtually every media card, allows multiple express card and PCMCIA connection, and has a built in 4 port SATA multiplier?"

I'm not saying it isn't a good deal. I'm saying that spending more than half the cost of a new MacBook Pro just so that I can plug in eSATA hard drives (and still no FW800 unless you have yet another ExpressCard and then an AC adapter on top of that if you have drives that rely on bus power) is a hideous Frankenstein mess. I can't carry that around easily on travel.

If you just have that Medusa-cable setup on your desktop and don't lug it around in the field, than that's fine and hooray it works for you. But I am so compact sometimes that I have to carry a camera + MacBook 17" in a single backpack and then offload to whatever drive a client happens to pick up, and I don't feel like dedicating a case solely to the stuff that allows me to do what a MacBook Pro with ExpressCard + USB3.0 would allow me to accomplish.

It's goofy. "Oh, great! The new Air-like Pros will be so convenient for travel. Oh wait, I have to carry all this additional shit with me to make it workable. Oh well, yay Apple!"


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 6:40:31 pm

[Gary Huff] "It's goofy. "Oh, great! The new Air-like Pros will be so convenient for travel. Oh wait, I have to carry all this additional shit with me to make it workable. Oh well, yay Apple!""

I carry the Qio with me anyway.

With thunderbolt, I add one more small box. I don't see it as a big deal.

One man's frankenstein mess is another's capability playground.

I too, travel with a backpack, and it all fits. There's even room for more.


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 7:54:43 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "
I too, travel with a backpack, and it all fits. There's even room for more."


Does this backpack also carry a camera and lenses?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 8:08:34 pm

No. There's another backpack for DSLR, and cases/bags for other cameras.

There there's tripods, lights, flags, stands, audio, monitration, and all the other gear that simply can't fit in a backpack.

It sounds to me you want to shoot everything on a flip sized camera and have all you current gear fit in to a backpack.

I see that is extremely limiting our creative capability, you see it as necessary.

As I said, to each their own. If buying a 3"x4"x1" box is going to split your backpack at the seams, then the current crop of 17" MBPs still have thunderbolt and express card.

Get it while it's hot.


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 8:57:36 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "No. There's another backpack for DSLR, and cases/bags for other cameras.

There there's tripods, lights, flags, stands, audio, monitration, and all the other gear that simply can't fit in a backpack."


Yeah, that's great. When you have room for it, or the budget can afford baggage fees.

"It sounds to me you want to shoot everything on a flip sized camera and have all you current gear fit in to a backpack.

I guess you skipped over the part where I mentioned lenses?

I see that is extremely limiting our creative capability, you see it as necessary."

Congratulations. I'm glad you're always able to bring every piece of gear you have on each and every shoot you do.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 9:16:32 pm

[Gary Huff] "Congratulations. I'm glad you're always able to bring every piece of gear you have on each and every shoot you do."

I'm sorry I couldn't help you, Gary.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 3:52:37 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "An iMac just doesn't cut it."

I am trying to stick with OSX for as long as I can as well.

Just curious, though, as to why you think an iMac won't work for editorial?

I guess, what software are you planning on running that doesn't work on an iMac today?

I understand that some repurchasing of Thunderbolt hardware will need to happen.

I am just curious as to your thoughts, and to see if you have even tried cutting on a new iMac.

Jeremy


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:11:37 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I understand that some repurchasing of Thunderbolt hardware will need to happen."

If we're even given that option to begin with. It's still the Wild West out there, though there are a few promising indications.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:23:00 pm

[Gary Huff] "If we're even given that option to begin with. It's still the Wild West out there, though there are a few promising indications."

It's early days yet, for sure.

The Sonnet card is available: http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?products_id=401

And from there you can add whatever Express card you need.

That with an AJA ioXT, I'd be very close to being "set".

Jeremy


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Gary Huff
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:24:45 pm

I already carry a G-Raid Mini with me, and that seems about the same size. Not really thrilled.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro Petition on Facebook
on May 29, 2012 at 5:33:44 pm

[Gary Huff] "I already carry a G-Raid Mini with me, and that seems about the same size. Not really thrilled."

To each their own I guess.


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