FORUMS: list search recent posts

On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Matt Kerstein
On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 9:09:20 am

I have a client that wants a system set up for his Parasailing company. Files (SD cards)will come in daily off boats from a mounted GoPro and stills from Canon's.These will be edited into vimeos for the passegers to later link and embed to their hearts content. Since I'd be training non video professionals, and the ability FCP X has to import all media without jumping thru hoops of steps via mpeg streamclip etc...FCP X was the call..But seeing the way that the workflow goes against everything I imagined it might be like..I'm getting cold sweats thinking I want to chuck it and install Adobe CS.
But Im willing to give it a few more days..Have to anyways. The 27" 3.4 8gig ram arrived with a bad logic board or something..Display was ghosting bad and flickering? First time in 20 years Ive had a apple product go bad on me right outta the box. For the Money maybe that Promax One Box? Anyways..If anybody has any suggestions how I might organize broll and build a fast "template" workflow..Id be very grateful and promise a sail on my Catamaran if ever on Maui.. Mahalo

Aloha & Mahalo from Maui


Return to posts index

Tony Brittan
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 11:30:08 am

Listen, if the don't have prior NLE experience and aren't held back by being too ingrained in how previous NLE's work, they will likey lovve FCP X! Especially for what you're talking about. CS6 is actually much better than previous versions but I'm an experienced editor / freelancer and I am having to relearn things just to be able to use it. That's gonna be difficult for them. FCP X is bizzare at first for us longtime editors....but really, once you really try it, it's ver good! I'm using it for SOME projects now and it sometimes when I go back to FCP, Avid, or Premiere, they feel really old and dated. Just sayin.

But for who this client wants, FCP X will be perfect. If you're judging it n your past experiences with NLE's...just don't. They won't have the same prejudice as a long time editor does towards the way it works and will probably take to like a duck to water!


Return to posts index

Tony Brittan
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 11:31:46 am

PS - Posted from iPad, please excuse typos!


Return to posts index


Matt Kerstein
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 6:43:03 pm

I agree..Seems very intuitive..Click a clip.."Apple"T and dissolve is placed on each side..pretty sweet. Still think they should have called it Imovie Pro..and used this updated code, integrated familiar icons and names and called the next new one.. FCP8. I understand the business & marketing standpoint that apple has taken. The broadcast and Pro market is such a small slice of the pie when considering the exploding market of hobbyists, kids, wives making soccer game video etc..But time will tell..change can be and usually is..a good thing.
Thanks for the reply.
Aloha
Matt

Aloha & Mahalo from Maui


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 6:48:00 pm

[Matt Kerstein] "I understand the business & marketing standpoint that apple has taken."

But you're missing the technical position.

Regardless of the name they had do a ground up rewrite using entirely different resources. They changed the GUI in the process. The features in FCPX are no less "Pro." They are still under development. It would make no sense technically to support the same feature set in two different GUI.



Return to posts index

Jules bowman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 8:22:47 am

Craig, with all due respect, they changed the way one edits, so they could easily have supported this new version and a re-write of FCP as FCP8 if they wanted to. I don't think they'd have struggled to find the resources to do it.

A big part of the debate here is they did it their way and actually expected the whole fraternity to go 'ooog, super awesome' but instead a fair chunk went WTF?

With regards to the OP, if his clients have no editing previous then having to learn FC10 or having to learn PP is exactly the same, they will have to learn from scratch. I'm really sorry but learning PP is not frigging rocket science. The advantage PP offers over FC10 is that the skills and approach they learn are transferable to other NLEs if that is what hey want to do in their futures. FC10, not so much.


Return to posts index


Jules bowman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 8:24:17 am

Oooog!???!

Sorry. Ooooh.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 2:15:15 pm

[Jules bowman] "A big part of the debate here is they did it their way and actually expected the whole fraternity to go 'ooog, super awesome' but instead a fair chunk went WTF?"

I think there was more thought behind it than "their way."
Apple studies the way people interact with things and develops GUI from that information. I don't doubt they were looking at how people without prior experience . . . prior conceptions, worked.

Of course it would be likely that many of those who are attached to their prior experience would not acclimate. Apple is thinking long range. I think they study and observe "people" rather than "experienced editors." In the long run they'll gain foothold from people new to the profession. It's an attrition strategy from one of the very few companies that can do that as a business model. It's same reason why I've posted earlier that Apple's biggest growth market with FCPX and professionals will be in new/startup facilities.



Return to posts index

Jules bowman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 2:38:52 pm

Sure, that's a perspective. But what I don't get with all this "FC10' is great for those without NLE baggage', is that learning the 'old' way wasn't hard. It is logical. It makes sense in terms of creating a timeline. It makes sense visually. There may be a lot of buttons to figure out over time, but isn't there with anything that is meant to be used to achieve decent creative output?

I truly don't buy this 'FC10 is best for people who don't have pre-conditioning'. I started with Pinnacle Studio. I had no pre-conditioning. I figured it out in no time at all. It made perfect sense to me. I then 'upgraded' to FCS and guess what. I figured out where the extra buttons were and was still perfectly at ease with a really logical way of making a video.

To me this whole 'FC10 is better for those with no baggage' argument is just an attempt to intellectualise the fact Apple wanted to do it 'their way'. Sorry. it's what they do and that is what they did. They didn't study people and discern the perfect model for the layman to edit. Please. That's nonsense. It is a different way of doing things because that is what Apple wanted to do. Be different.

Sure, hiding stuff and defaulting to auto this and auto that is definitely going to help the inexperienced at the beginning, but in the long run if they really want to progress they will still need to un-auto stuff and learn. Start with FC10 or start with PP, you're still 'starting', you are still going to have to learn.

And it still doesn't detract from my previous point that the skills the OPs clients will learn through PP are more transferrable than those learnt through FC10... though I guess the trouble shooting skills refined whilst having to determine and execute a plethora of work-arounds is something that would aid them in many other things.


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 3:00:00 pm

[Jules bowman] "learning the 'old' way wasn't hard. It is logical."

I'm not so sure about how hard it is/isn't. Just a guess but I think the GUI change in iMovie might have been Apple's response to how some people had problems. Of course those without problems did shout loudly. Either Apple wanted to lose their user base there or maybe they saw a bigger picture. In fact, one might find that after all the supposed upset with the change in GUI, that they'd avoid doing that again. Maybe Apple has no business sense or maybe they're seeing something many of us aren't.

I can't say I know the backend decision making of course but do note that the FCP GUI change wasn't without precedent. After doing it with iMovie and despite the apparent hue and cry, they did it again. Glutton for business punishment or maybe they felt that actual result bore out that they should do this again. I don't pretend to know anything concretely beyond that Apple makes business decisions and, having done this before, thought there was long run value in doing it again. They saw something beyond the noise that we aren't seeing.

Apple has certainly made their share of mistakes but one of their patterns of success is designing with an understanding towards human interface. When they do make a mistake such as the dumb hockey puck mouse, they don't repeat it. In this case the GUI they made with iMovie was repeated even after seeing the visible reaction to it. I suspect they saw something else not obvious in the noise.


[Jules bowman] "To me this whole 'FC10 is better for those with no baggage' argument is just an attempt to intellectualise the fact Apple wanted to do it 'their way'."

I'd argue the opposite. The attempt to anthropomorphize a company's business decision as "wanting it their way" is anti intellectual. They want to make money. That's their motive. They have a business model with history that they work on implementing. It's far more likely that they see more growth potential over time with the new GUI. Maybe if you consider that "their way" it would be more appropriate. "They" are a business and "their way" is to increase revenue and profits. They may or may not fail in any given action, but, like a good business, they re-evaluate. They made the GUI move with iMovie and, after evaluation, decided to do it again with FCP.



Return to posts index

Jules bowman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 6:36:06 pm

But apple are run by people. Apple are known for producing a closed Eco system to increase profits. That is doing it their way.

As for the rest, you are right, it is a perspective on the whole thing and you don't know whether the iMovie change was a good or bad thing in terms of a % of people who use it. Neither do apple. You can guess. So can apple. But their doing it again doesn't prove it was the right thing to do the first time.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 9:11:56 pm

[Jules bowman] "But apple are run by people. Apple are known for producing a closed Eco system to increase profits. That is doing it their way."

Which would mean the choices with FCPX will be profitable ones in their estimation.

[Jules bowman] "you don't know whether the iMovie change was a good or bad thing in terms of a % of people who use it. Neither do apple. You can guess. So can apple. But their doing it again doesn't prove it was the right thing to do the first time."

I strongly disagree. I think Apple knows. I'm sure they have plenty of metrics we aren't aware of. Both those metrics from iMovie and the study of human computer interaction lead them to change the GUI in FCP as they did with iMovie.



Return to posts index


Jules bowman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 27, 2012 at 7:39:29 am

How do apple know if people prefer the changed GUI for iMovie? Did they ask everyone? Unlikely. So they guessed. Use of iMovie doesn't mean the new version is preferred. How do they know it was successful for FC10 and more importantly the editing approach was better because it went down a different route? Did they ask everyone? Do they have a crystal ball so they can see how sales went if they had re written FCP8? Unlikely, so they have guessed.

Strongly disagree all you ant Craig, but you, and apple, are guessing. And telling me apple are a rich company who makes lots of money doesn't make them correct on this fact. Telling me they have metrics we may not know about (again, even that statement to know isn't fact thus your wording) doesn't mean they know it was a success. Sales don't equate to FC10 being a better option. I mean I bought it and am part of those sales stats.

So, well, the we have it. You opinion, as ever, is valid because it is your opinion but you, and apple, are still guessing.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 27, 2012 at 2:29:11 pm

[Jules bowman] "but you, and apple, are guessing"

I seriously doubt Apple is guessing. There's a lot of analytics out there. Sales is only a part of it. Every Mac owner gets iMovie free. There's those who buy new copies and then buy following new copies for example. I'm sure they have plenty of other analytics. To assume Apple doesn't do research and analysis would be naive in my opinion. They chose to move forward with a GUI and I doubt it was a whim or assumption without some foundation that convinced them it was a good choice.



Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 10:50:06 pm

[Matt Kerstein] "I agree..Seems very intuitive..Click a clip.."Apple"T and dissolve is placed on each side..pretty sweet."

You're referring to FCP 7, right? Because the function is EXACTLY the same. Sorry if you didn't know the old tools... :)


Return to posts index


Matt Kerstein
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 12:53:20 am

Funny..I did not know about that one..Good thing we run on "Island Time" out here :)

Aloha & Mahalo from Maui


Return to posts index

TImothy Auld
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 11:36:46 am

Sorry. Didn't realize someone had already posted this. I'm just giving you a hard time because you live in Hawaii and I'm jealous.

Tim


Return to posts index

TImothy Auld
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 11:33:59 am

If you select a clip in 7 and command T it does exactly the same thing.

Tim


Return to posts index

Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 11:42:13 am

I understand your worries...

But look at it this way:

FCP X has its own way of handling media. Some of us hate it, some of us think it's much better then FCP7, but it can be setup in a way that people won't be quick to loose their media.

It imports images in the background, they can start editing fast.

Finally... It's all for Vimeo. They can immediately output to Vimeo from in FCP X, tagging it, giving it the right subject name, ...
I think FCP X looks like the best option for your clients.

And as Tony said... It is a pretty powerful program. Very incomplete, still, yes. But once you really learn how to use it, it does grow on you.


Return to posts index

Matt Kerstein
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 6:46:29 pm

Yep..feeling better today..Thanks for all the response. I was familiar with all the great "Share" options. But dissapointed with the limited flavors of exports.But totally understand the simplistic almost dogmatic approach to this new version.
Aloha
Matt

Aloha & Mahalo from Maui


Return to posts index

Tony Brittan
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 6:55:15 pm

Yea, I feel ya on the export thing but ya know...I always exported a Prores 422 master from earlier versions of FCP and used that to make all of the other versions I wanted to do using Compressor anyway. So...the different export features, while I was aghast when I saw them missing, really didn't come into play.

And I'll tell ya what...the share for Vimeo and YouTube are actually very good quality! If you don't have compressor on the machine...or Adobe Media Encoder (which screams on my MBP...not sure how it works on my Mac Pro because I don't have it installed on my main edit machine)...you'll be limited in your transcoding availability. But hey...for another $50 you can get Compressor and do anything you need to!

But for what they're doing, they'll be fine with what comes with it. FWIW, when you do a share -> export media, you can do a little selecting of different methods. Just like exporting in legacy FCP to a degree.

Tony Brittan
Island Shore Productions


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 2:05:32 pm

As others are indicating. FCPX is perfect for this kind of work. If the editor doesn't have NLE background to "unlearn" X will be intuitive. Fast input and fast export for fast turnaround. Lots of built in an inexpensive plugins to add FX and looks for nice looking results. The ability to toss almost anything into it and it just works, mostly without rendering. Personally I think one of FCPX's best targets is the small business that needs something professional, fast turnaround, easy to learn for a non editor. They'll have a good online community to turn to for support as well. Lots of great training for them to use. Some of it even free.



Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 2:44:10 pm

will you need to or want to share media?


Return to posts index

Matt Kerstein
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 6:51:02 pm

Nope just archive to a big Thunderbolt drive.
Thanks
Matt

Aloha & Mahalo from Maui


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 3:07:15 pm

The Promax One is a Windows machine. Not Mac. Won't run FCX.

I'll agree here. If they have zero editing experience and are dealing with tapeless files, FCX might be their best bet

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Nathan Adam
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 6:05:45 pm

Gotta say, as a 10+ year FCP editor, I just cranked out a 24 minute video in X in about half the time it took me last year in 7, and I'm a speed/shortcut junkie in 7.
I'd make a template project with specific types of shots and music cues, and when they import the daily footage, they can just skim through them, find the best parts, then literally drag/drop/replace the template footage, and they'll be rendered and uploaded to Vimeo before they'd even started the edit in CS6. And I'm a big fan of CS6.


Return to posts index

Matt Kerstein
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 6:49:39 pm

Yep..I was aware that the Promax box was windows only..That was when I was mulling CS6..but that is way overkill for this workflow. Mahalo for the response.
Matt

Aloha & Mahalo from Maui


Return to posts index

Lance Bachelder
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 8:08:48 pm

I concur with most of the posts - FCPX should be perfect for your needs. I think it does a better job with stills than Premiere - so easy to do some simple moves and quick color timing without buying plug-ins etc. Like Nathan said you can create a template that you just plug the new shots into every time - fast and fun!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



Return to posts index

Nathan Adam
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 25, 2012 at 11:16:28 pm

I was thinking about this for some other sorts of "value added" videos for an event facility of mine that seem like they'd have a similar template feel as your parasailing friends.

Wedding video highlight package, give a shot checklist to a freelance shooter, they deliver a drive of numbered shots to me or an intern, and bam, a few minutes later the video assembly line rolls out another one.
Hmmmm.


Return to posts index

Nathan Adam
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 26, 2012 at 4:03:00 pm

Full assessment: FCPX ruined my June 2011. I still edit a weekly TV show in FCP 7 (XDCam, have a great system down, and wouldn't do it in X if they made me). Really digging PP CS6 for future, especially long form, custom, and DSLR based projects.

But for this type of project, mixing lots of moving stills, need for good, clean, but not too original titles, a ton of different video formats and lots of retiming, music, basic audio cleanup, <30 minutes long and a need for Fast exports, X, even for my first real project on it, was by far faster. My only retraining was a quick Lynda.com crash course (to relearn the silly new X terminology and remap my shortcuts).

Also, we won the National competitions out of 600 teams with this presentation, so I guess the video looked good enough, too. Definitely will be the fastest solution for these types of projects.


Return to posts index

alban egger
Re: On the fence.. wondering if X will be a headache or a blessing...
on May 27, 2012 at 9:13:44 am

Matt,
for regular people FCPX will IMO be easier to learn with a short introduction than any other NLE.

The import process is similar and wether you use bins or keywords won´t matter. When you tick the "COPY to EVENT" on import you also create an automatic backup of your original clips.

Editing: the magnetic timeline and trackless workflow is so much better for people who just want to create a "simple timeline" of their images.

I have already two clients who installed FCPX in their offices for their in-house stuff. They are absolute layman in terms of editing and they couldn´t be happier. A tool like FCP7 or CS6 would definitely overwhelm them. It is not rocket-science, but they need more knowledge to do basic stuff than FCPX, while FCPX needs some knowledge if you want to go deeper.


BTW they didn´t call it iMovie Pro , because it isn´t. It has one big feature from iMovie: skimming...other than that they are totally different. I cannot make anything in iMovie. I hate it. But in FCPX I ffel home :D



Return to posts index

Matt Kerstein
Re: cant make duplicate project
on Jun 24, 2012 at 4:02:29 am

Any way around being able to make a duplicate of my project while background tasks running?
Thanks

Aloha & Mahalo from Maui


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]