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Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?

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Paul Lumsden
Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 1:17:51 am

Anyone? I'm about to start a feature project. In the past, I've used FCP for feature length cuts, with Avid, Edius & Premiere for short form.

I was just wondering if it can handle native Red & Arri files, multiple rushes formats on one sequence, going from offline to online, coforming, exporting for sound & grading, having masses of rushes, nested sequnces, share multiple sequences with other editors, and the state feature projects can get into

I'm curently looking at trying out Avid 5 or CS5.5 (maybe 6) for this, but was thinking it could be interesting using & learning FCP X. I'll be cutting at a facilty, hardware won't be an issue.

Cheers!


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Oliver Peters
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 1:42:22 am

I haven't cut a feature in it yet, but am also curious. I have been looking at the options. As far as RAW support... No. ARRI files in ProRes, no problem. Pomfort also makes a LUT filter for LogC. RED files would have to be first converted using REDCINE-X Pro. I would plan on an offline-online route, either converting the files externally and reconnecting or using the proxy function. You will absolutely have to go outside of X to hand off for mixing and grading. There are various utilities to do this, but the easiest is to use Xto7 to go to FCP 7 and then send your various outputs from there. I'm doing this now on a commercial project that involves OMFs, EDLs and relinking graded files from the colorist.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Powell
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:51:41 am

Why would you need to go back to FCP 7? I thought .04 update solved these issues? Davinci can read XML from X and AD can export omf's no?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 11:25:52 am

There are several reasons for using 7. For instance on the incoming side, let's say you have Alexa ProRes4444 LogC footage. I apply a LUT to the raw footage in 7 and Batch Export a proxy for editing with the correction baked in. Replace later. On the output side, maybe you want to use Color, or need to generate an OMF or EDL. FCP7 is pretty much the best option. So no, 10.0.4 and DaVinci do nothing to solve the situation. Of course, I don't believe that trying to finish entirely within one environment is the wisest choice anyway.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Marcus Hardy
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 4:04:41 am

I'm editing one this summer, and I plan to edit it entirely in FCPX. We are shooting all on 5D's so this shouldn't be a problem. We are currently doing VFX tests seeing how FCPX handles them. So far so good.

As a stress test I imported and merged Kill Bill Parts 1 and 2, adding up to a 4 hour project (timeline) it stuttered quite a bit, but once rendered it was perfectly fine. Edits caused a little lag. But not too bad. I even exported it and it turned out great!

Case in point, FCPX as it stands now is capable of handling a project of a feature's length.

Hope your feature goes well CS6 is pretty awesome too. :)

RED support has been promised by the end of the year. So fingers crossed its sooner than that.


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Shane Ross
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:47:36 am

[Marcus Hardy] "As a stress test I imported and merged Kill Bill Parts 1 and 2, adding up to a 4 hour project (timeline) it stuttered quite a bit, but once rendered it was perfectly fine."

That's hardly a stress test. Loading in 4 hours of footage? Making a 4 hour timeline? That isn't a test. Feature films can have 40 to 300 hours of footage. And be hundreds, if not thousands of clips. Putting in a 4 hour movie is nothing.

[Marcus Hardy] "Case in point, FCPX as it stands now is capable of handling a project of a feature's length."

Sorry...that statement makes zero sense given your testing method. In order to test properly you need to load at least 75 hours of footage and break that footage up by scene and...basically all things involved in editing a film. Not dropping in a long movie and making a sequence out of it.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Marcus Hardy
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:53:04 am

No need to get aggressive, I wasn't trying to defend FCPX in its ability to handle media, the guy asked if it could handle a feature length project, and from a timeline standpoint it can. That's all I was saying, I wasn't advocating for him to use it. Purely trying to be helpful.

No flame wars.

And lest we forget I did state that CS6 and for that matter Avid are excellent options as well.

Sorry if I offended.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 6:27:04 am

[Marcus Hardy] "No need to get aggressive, I wasn't trying to defend FCPX in its ability to handle media, the guy asked if it could handle a feature length project, and from a timeline standpoint it can. That's all I was saying, I wasn't advocating for him to use it. Purely trying to be helpful.

No flame wars.
"


Marcus, I don't think Shane was being aggressive. I think he was simply being adamant about concerns that I happen to agree with. Several hours of video is one thing; source material for even a small film is quite something else. You undoubtedly know this, but you also made claim that "FCPX as it stands now is capable of handling a project of a feature's length." That statement is quite a bit broader than simply being about what the timeline can hold. I don't know if Shane was reacting to that statement in particular, but it hit me as being pretty strong when I read it.

One of the many elements you might want to take into consideration when you embark on your feature is project bloat, which is currently a very sensitive issue for X, especially if you intend to use compound clips. Have a look at this concurrent thread as an example:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/34573

Break a leg on your project. You are certainly braver than I am.


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Gary Huff
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:25:28 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Marcus, I don't think Shane was being aggressive."

Wow, two examples of this within a few days! Crazy.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:41:09 pm

[Gary Huff] "[Chris Harlan] "Marcus, I don't think Shane was being aggressive."

Wow, two examples of this within a few days! Crazy.
"


Its got to be one of these three:

A) Shane being aggressive, B) Marcus calling Shane aggressive, C) Me being overly paternalistic


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Steve Connor
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:42:41 pm

[Chris Harlan] "ts got to be one of these three:

A) Shane being aggressive, B) Marcus calling Shane aggressive, C) Me being overly paternalistic
"


Or it could be all 3 :)

Steve Connor
"Sometimes it's fun to poke an angry bear with a stickl"
Adrenalin Television


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Gary Huff
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:47:59 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Its got to be one of these three:

A) Shane being aggressive,"


Well, clearly, because Shane didn't apologize multiple times through his post for daring to point out his opinion of "flaws" in Marcus' well-thought-out test.

It was a total flame war!


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Shane Ross
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 3:00:21 pm

Sorry...I didn't really want to come across as aggressive. I did want to inform. I just found it mind-boggling that simply creating a 4 hour sequence makes FCX ready to handle a feature. Sequence length is such a minor factor that it really needs little to no consideration. The biggest issues are dealing with hours and hours of footage, organizing it, tracking it. How bloated does the project get with that much footage? Because FCP Legacy got pretty bloated, which is why the practice of multiple projects for long 2-3 hour final pieces became a standard practice. How bloated would FCX get? Because it doesn't support multiple projects...er...events?...as far as I recall.

I did come across aggressive. Because I was flabberghasted at the comment that "It's ready! I can put a movie on the timeline" was given as proof. Sorry that I did that.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Steve Connor
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 3:31:35 pm

[Shane Ross] "The biggest issues are dealing with hours and hours of footage, organizing it, tracking it. How bloated does the project get with that much footage"

The final project of the 100 minute movie I've just finished is 55mb, but I don't use compound clips very much and if I do it's generally for temporary grouping of clips.

Steve Connor
"Sometimes it's fun to poke an angry bear with a stickl"
Adrenalin Television


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Chris Harlan
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 3:47:32 pm

[Steve Connor] "The final project of the 100 minute movie I've just finished is 55mb, but I don't use compound clips very much and if I do it's generally for temporary grouping of clips.
"


That's not bad at all!


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Paul Aspuria
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 6:59:13 am

This article been posted here before but check it out and I think it answers your questions.

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/in-action/electric/

Of course it's a 60 min show. One thing you need to be careful with is using plugins. I've noticed certain plugins can cause projects issues. Just make duplicates of edits periodically or use that new Pro Versioner to make backups. I've cut a feature on it in ProRes444 worked out fine for me.

The key thing is organization. It keeps the projects running smoothly.

In terms of cutting, I love the fluidity of the interface. I work with Premiere and FCP7 daily for my job but I love how FCPX works. I wish they would add a machine with FCPX because from what I see it's more then capable to working on most of the jobs. It's funny how a lot of people have missconception and haven't even touched it. First thing they say, "Wow you can edit on it." They acted surprised that it even works.

Anyways, happy cutting on whatever you decide to use.

-p


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Steven Gonzales
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 7:26:27 pm

I'm curious about audio on the feature. Did you use camera audio, or did you sync separate audio?

Every feature I've done had post sync due to dual system sound, even when it was a video shoot and there was also a dummy camera audio track.



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Steve Connor
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 7:46:19 pm

[Steven Gonzales] "I'm curious about audio on the feature. Did you use camera audio, or did you sync separate audio?

Every feature I've done had post sync due to dual system sound, even when it was a video shoot and there was also a dummy camera audio track.

"


We had separate audio record that was mirrored to the F3's inputs, I had some post sync to do when there were some issues with the input settings on the camera, it was easy to sync in FCPX

Steve Connor
"Sometimes it's fun to poke an angry bear with a stickl"
Adrenalin Television


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jon smitherton
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 7:09:21 am

Hi Paul,

I'm interested in this too, as I'm sure are a lot of others.
Maybe a good way to test is use 7toX one of your FCP7 features with all the source footage and post back your conclusions.

Jon.



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Steve Connor
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 8:02:56 am

I'm just in the final stages of a feature on FCPX at the moment, 2600 clips, mostly shot on Sony F3 with Nanoflash and Canon 7D. I split it into 6 projects to avoid any slowdown issues ( I would have done this in FCP7 too) Finally compiled to 100 minute Project when 10.04 was released with it's performance improvements.

Grading is being done in Resolve and Audio in Protools via X2Pro.

It was a very enjoyable if not slightly nerve wracking experience, when I get time I'll write an article!

Steve Connor
"Sometimes it's fun to poke an angry bear with a stickl"
Adrenalin Television


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Jari Innanen
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 9:24:28 am

I just finished a feature with FCP X. Finished length was 96 minutes all in one master project. Material was shot mainly with Canon 5D and some additional scenes with Red Scarlet totaling about 25 hours plus lots of 4K still pictures. The editing went super smoothly using proxy media. Never had to render although I had widescreen and S-curve filter on one adjustment layer all the time.
For bigger screenings I switched to optimized media (ProRes 422) and rendered.
I used Macbook Pro i7 late 2011 with 16 of RAM and Lacie 2TB Thunderbolt drive for the material.

I used Xto7 to output the project to FCP 7 sequence for the post house so I had to go little backwards there. For the sound post I used X2Pro to get an AAF of the project.

All and all the editing experience was most enjoyable so far in my career and I've used them all since Steenbeck. I must say I like this new storytelling machine called FCP X.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:01:11 pm

Congrats! Thanks for the positive report!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Lance Bachelder
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 4:59:33 pm

Can't wait to read the article. Dividing the show into 6 reels was a good move, I always work in reels when cutting a feature - good to hear FCPX worked out for you. I'll be shooting my next feature this fall and will using a similar workflow and leaning toward FCPX and ProRES.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Chris Harlan
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:37:32 pm

[Steve Connor] "It was a very enjoyable if not slightly nerve wracking experience, when I get time I'll write an article!
"


Cool! Can't wait to read it.


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Gary Huff
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 5:52:25 pm

[Steve Connor] "It was a very enjoyable if not slightly nerve wracking experience, when I get time I'll write an article!"

Nerve wracking in working with FCPX or just editing the movie in general?


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Steve Connor
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 6:10:20 pm

[Gary Huff] "Nerve wracking in working with FCPX or just editing the movie in general?
"


Using FCPX, after hearing some of the horror stories about project corruption! I had a good backup strategy just in case.

Steve Connor
"Sometimes it's fun to poke an angry bear with a stickl"
Adrenalin Television


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Gary Huff
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 6:11:36 pm

I always back up my project files regardless of any NLE. Haven't had any corruption in a long time, but have in my past and it's not fun.


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Richard Herd
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 2:44:03 pm

Read the following post before you decide: http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/34573


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Warren Eig
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 3:47:20 pm

How can you without tracks?

When I cut a feature, I like to assign tracks 1-4 as dialogue. Room tone TK 5. I'll thrown in SND FX TK 6-8, etc.

How can you even begin to do this with FCPX? No assignable tracks? Magnetic timeline?

Warren

Warren Eig
O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com
website: http://www.babyboompictures.com


http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/F5_Director_Cut.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/AFX.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/KnitWits_Movie.html
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0251670/


EDITING REEL: http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Editing_Reel.html
TITLE DESIGN: http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Titles_Reel.html



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Richard Herd
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 4:06:46 pm

[Warren Eig] "How can you without tracks?"

Are you really asking this? Or is it rhetorical?


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Richard Herd
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 17, 2012 at 4:14:24 pm

There's an FCPX Technique forum, but sometimes stuff gets posted over here. Just want to make sure someone needing help gets it ;)


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Marcus Moore
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 18, 2012 at 3:47:42 am

That's a very important question and one that can be hard for people to wrap their heads around.

When you put specific kinds of audio onto specific tracks, you're really assigning them a kind of metadata, but a kind that isn't tied to the media itself. Track 1-4 is DIALOGUE because that's where you put it.

The new idea that FCPX proposes is that the media ITSELF is tagged as what it is, DIALOGUE, AMBIENCE, MUSIC, ETC.. FCPX assigns these roles automatically on import, and I've personally never found it to be wrong. HOWEVER, if you wanted to tag a music track or dialogue as AMBIENCE for example, you can. And if you need to be more specific, you can create custom roles, and even sub-roles- "Dialogue Nina" or "Sound FX Gunshots" and so on.

Now here's the cool part... When you export to OMF via X2Pro, all of this Role data gets pushed out, so that when your audio engineer opens the OMF in ProTools, all of your Role data is already there. No more long emails explaining your track structure!

So, why did they do this? Or better yet, why is this a good thing? Well, because in FCPX's Connected Clip and Magnetic Timeline structure, all of the audio elements need to be able to shift around when possible collisions occur. If you remove 1 second from the end of a shot in a complex edit, you don't have to worry that Gunshot on TRACK 12 is going to over-right the start of Ricochet that right behind it on TRACK 12. Without tracks, you as the editor no longer have to micromanage moving around dialogue within Tracks 1-4 when conflicts occur. Connected clips and a trackless timeline are an interdependent concept that work together.


Now, that said, I do think there is a problem. Right now VISUAL ORGANIZATION in the project timeline is not great. Everything is green. What I would love to see is media organized BY ROLE, either with soft lines or with the audio elements custom colour-coded, so that all DIALOGUE is kept together and easy to spot in the timeline. I suppose you could call this a track, but I'd think of it more as a "Channel" or "Lane" for each Role group. All the audio elements are free to move around in their lane to adjust to editorial changes, but they stay together as a group. Here's a rough image to illustrate what I'm taking about.



10.0.5 supposedly has some big audio improvements coming down the line, so hopefully we'll see some improvement in this area.

But I assure you, audio without tracks is possible. It surprised the hell out of me!



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Richard Herd
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 21, 2012 at 3:09:34 pm

Whoa! How did you change the colors of your audio tracks?! Wait, did you do that?

Color coding is huge, though, and I sent it to apple too.

Also it'd be great if I could control click the little link-line and move it.


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Marcus Moore
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 21, 2012 at 3:19:47 pm

This is only an illustrative image that I mocked up.

You can easily move the connection point of your connected clips (audio or video) by clicking on the clip where you want it while holding down the CMD+OPT keys.



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Richard Herd
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 21, 2012 at 3:22:26 pm

[Marcus Moore] "down the CMD+OPT keys"

THANK YOU!!

I have been looking all over for that piece of information. I don't have X in front of me right now, but will that retain the Audio clips current location?


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Marcus Moore
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 21, 2012 at 3:31:45 pm

Yup. The audio doesn't move at all, even if you move your connection point to another primary storyline clip. This way you can put your connection point where it makes the most sense.

For instance, a car pass sound effect gets linked at the moment of the car passing. So regardless of whether you shorten the head or tail of the shot, that exact moment will always stay in sync.



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Richard Herd
Re: Anyone on here cut a feature in FCP X?
on May 21, 2012 at 4:20:36 pm

Awesome!


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