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Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little

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Glen Hurd
Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 14, 2012 at 3:00:41 pm

knock-knock-whos-there-editor-who

Regarding the notion that art can be reduced to a collection of templates, he asks "Devoting so much of your life to the “art” of something and suddenly realizing that all you had to do was basically buy the 'joke book'?"

He compares artistic editing to business editing - the first placing value on the practioner, giving points for experience and innate talent (as in, telling jokes), while the second tends to prioritize software - evaluating capabilities and, more importantly, hurdles.

In the end, I agree with his conclusion.

"Picking a NLE company as your “favorite team” seems an alignment that cannot be trusted anymore, so we gotta push the makers of the tools that we have right now and sadly not assume the company will be there for us in future."


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Greg Andonian
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 15, 2012 at 5:45:48 am

"Picking a NLE company as your 'favorite team' seems an alignment that cannot be trusted anymore, so we gotta push the makers of the tools that we have right now and sadly not assume the company will be there for us in future."

Wow, Apple's arrogance has put a dark cloud over the whole industry. Sad, really...

______________________________________________
"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Bill Davis
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 15, 2012 at 8:52:52 am

[Greg Andonian] "Wow, Apple's arrogance has put a dark cloud over the whole industry. Sad, really...
"


I know it's really probably satisfying for you to anthropomorphize "Apple" like it's a person and ascribe to it characteristics like "arrogance" - but in point of fact it's not a person. (The temporary insanity the Roberts court went down in Citizens United, notwithstanding.)

It's a huge corporation, just like many others. It's run on a set of governing principals the primary of which is the same as any other business from the local malt shop to the titans of global industry. Make profits and satisfy the needs of the largest swath of customers, shareholders and employees you can.

Your entire problem is that they stopped taking care of YOU. So you're pissed. And you feel slighted.

But they're still making more profits than 99% of the commercial firms in the world, so the market continues to judge them correct, and you wrong in your attitude about their decision making. As to FCP-X specifically, the jury is out, but from where I sit fielding questions and talking to corporate editors across the country, it's not just doing fine, it's WAY ahead of where Legacy was at the end of year one in it's life.

And I know that because I was editing with Legacy from the beginning - so I lived it.

X is actually, significantly more challenging to learn than legacy ever was since it re-envisioned so many old style A/B roll sensibilities and a whole lot of editors including many, many here have been griping about it for a year, and after a year, they keep demonstrating that they haven't been able to grasp how it actually works beyond a surface level. That's not a slam. It's a reflection of how much unlearning and re-orientation it takes to use the new tool fluidly - and how few working editors have had the patience or or the kinds of projects it's so well suited for - with which to devote the solid time required to becoming fluent with it.

For everyone who has had the ability to do so, , the pattern is pretty clear. The more someone uses it, the more they discover to like. And it's very hard to go back to editing the way we once did.

No doubt there are lots and lots of pro editors "pissed" at Apple. But there are also lots and lots of others like me who are quite happy with their new direction and their willingness to focus on new ideas and capabilities.

I have a better tool for my personal style of editing. You have one you won't or can't embrace.

I win. You lose. Sorry about that. But the industry and life in general moves on.

But really, If all you have to contribute is "bad mouthing the big bad company" then I'd suggest you either contribute meaningfully or go over to read the other software's groups.

Oh wait, those are kinda boring and THIS place, the place with FCP-X in the title - appears to be where the action is.

Maybe that's still happening for a reason?

How bout you come back and tell me how lame FCP-X is when the Premier or AVID boards are hopping with new editors right and left and this one is dull? That would be demonstrative, huh?

It would also be a lot more useful then coming here and telling guys like me that we're all just not clever enough to see the arrogance and sadness being imposed upon us by big bad Apple.

Funny, cause I personally don't FEEL like a victim. I feel pretty much happy and kinda empowered every time I sit down to cut with X.

And I guess I would be sorry that you are being forced to feel that the big mean company has called forth dark clouds and sadness upon your universe.

Must suck.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 15, 2012 at 7:10:49 pm

[Bill Davis] "Funny, cause I personally don't FEEL like a victim. I feel pretty much happy and kinda empowered every time I sit down to cut with X."

I didn't realize Stockholm syndrome extended to editors.

:rimshot:




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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 15, 2012 at 7:22:03 pm

[Bill Davis] "I win. You lose."

serious to christ Bill, you have the emotional maturity of a toddler.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 12:16:25 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "serious to christ Bill, you have the emotional maturity of a toddler."

No, I have some command of analytical thought. Every editor wants tools they enjoy.

The OP doesn't see that in X. I do. Since my needs have been satisfied and his have not, the statement that I win and he loses is not in any way emotional. It's factual. It's like saying we both had deal with the EOL issues of our former NLE - we both had to change - and I've found a solution that makes me happy - and he's still struggling to find one.

The only place this has anything to do with "emotional maturity" is in the wheedling tone your brain applies to everything I write whether it was intended to be delivered that way or not.

The language is plain as day.

You're interpretation of it, as is typical, is what is emotionally overblown and totally off target with any intention on my part.

Have a nice day.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 12:24:15 am

ah you're funny.

see this?

http://lifeonland.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/roast-dinner.jpg

You don't get to have it Bill, look at all that lovely food, you can smell it right? and here I am cruelly pulling the plate away.
I have a strong policy on this.

http://www.damndirtyrino.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/feed_trolls.gif

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 2:03:41 am

Sorry dude.

I write my ideas down for everyone to judge. Good or bad.

I don't "do" click through links to other people's ideas when I'm in a discussion. I may quote someone, but I generally prefer to speak for myself and make my own arguments.

If you feel that you need to rely on links to other peoples creations in order to make your points, that's cool.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Jules bowman
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 7:09:56 am

You did a post a few days back which almost seemed reasonable and made me, ever so slightly start warming to you.

Back to siberia it is. You are still a pompous oaf it seems.


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Jules bowman
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 15, 2012 at 9:13:12 pm

It also has the term 'or Not' in the title.

Plus a lot of the scintillating people in here also post in other forums.

Plus I WIN and YOU LOSE and because I used capitals mine counts more so WIN.

And Steve, yes, I know, you were right.


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Bill Davis
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 12:19:24 am

[Jules bowman] "Plus I WIN and YOU LOSE and because I used capitals mine counts more so WIN.

"


Well, I doubt anyone here will have the gracelessness to call you to account on any of your personal capitalization issues.

In this forum, anyone around since the beginning knows that we've been there and done that ages ago.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Steve Connor
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 7:55:57 am

[Jules bowman] "And Steve, yes, I know, you were right."

You didn't even let me get an "I told you so" in!

Steve Connor
"Sometimes it's fun to poke an angry bear with a stickl"
Adrenalin Television


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Jules bowman
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 7:56:22 am

haha, sorry, that was mean of me. next time :)


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Steve Connor
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 7:59:58 am

It's much more fun when you're not ignoring him :)

Steve Connor
"Sometimes it's fun to poke an angry bear with a stickl"
Adrenalin Television


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Jules bowman
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 8:03:23 am

haha, that's not fair. i'm trying to not get my posts moderated again!


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Alex Hawkins
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 7:24:15 am

[Bill Davis] "Your entire problem is that they stopped taking care of YOU. So you're pissed. And you feel slighted."

[Bill Davis] "many here have been griping about it for a year, and after a year, they keep demonstrating that they haven't been able to grasp how it actually works beyond a surface level."

[Bill Davis] "I have a better tool for my personal style of editing. You have one you won't or can't embrace.

I win. You lose. Sorry about that. But the industry and life in general moves on.

But really, If all you have to contribute is "bad mouthing the big bad company" then I'd suggest you either contribute meaningfully or go over to read the other software's groups."


[Bill Davis] "It would also be a lot more useful then coming here and telling guys like me that we're all just not clever enough to see the arrogance and sadness being imposed upon us by big bad Apple."

Gee Bill get out of bed the wrong side or what? Bit of an unnecessary rant for a throwaway one liner isn't it.

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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James Mortner
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 15, 2012 at 11:57:19 am

[Greg Andonian] "Wow, Apple's arrogance has put a dark cloud over the whole industry. Sad, really..."

I think there's a silver lining here that the other software makers have jumped and offered cross-grades, promotions and new features that maybe otherwise wouldn't exist today ? Its quite exciting !


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Chris Harlan
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 1:29:53 am

[James Mortner] "[Greg Andonian] "Wow, Apple's arrogance has put a dark cloud over the whole industry. Sad, really..."

I think there's a silver lining here that the other software makers have jumped and offered cross-grades, promotions and new features that maybe otherwise wouldn't exist today ? Its quite exciting !"


Yeah, I have to agree with that. It took me a while to get there, but I really like the way X has opened up so many other options. I thing we're in a stunning place right now. I'm really enjoying the options.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 8:33:34 am

me too, from a certain perspective, this has worked out a treat.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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James Mortner
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 12:46:28 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "me too, from a certain perspective, this has worked out a treat."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I like FCPX or anything crazy like that. Just maybe the whole "paradigm" was due a major shake-up


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 1:12:40 pm

for absolute sure - and plus there's some parts of X I really truly do like - mostly the CC attributes granted, but that's a pretty big thing. Also, when its in the mood, it runs ludicrously well on an i7 iMac, I find you can just keep throwing vignette masks, defocus, CC at clips til the cows come home. And no one has to talk about CUDA.

I also like the implementation of the effects drawer, like where it is, and how accessible it is, getting an instant preview of the effect is pretty damn cool too. That said - ultimately I'll find much more effects punch in Premiere, because I've been at AE since 4.1 - so I'm likely to be cooking with gas there. and also the R&D at adobe completely slays Apple. Whatever is left in pro apps couldn't push out the warp stabilizer if you gave them ten years I don't think. they had ten years to do dynamic trimming and they never got it together. Adobe did it in 12 months.

I still hate the - forced tagging, no you cannot have bins - thing, the single keyword collection viewable at a time, that utter joke of a timeline, the audio waveforms, they don't even deserve to be called waveforms - maybe "vector simplified jagged crud at the bottom of the clip lozenge" would be more like it...
And also the insane amount of chrome and unnecessary animation going on everywhere - that drives me mad. Apple have completely lost it when it comes to app GUIs - someone has eaten their brains there. wait until they stick in magic sparkly brush icons for dissolves...

thats just a really long winded way of saying that there is stuff I really like in X - i just find it an unusable application, also I don't see any signs of it being adopted anywhere, absolutely anywhere in London - no one has, not a single soul, I keep asking around. If I ever get around to buying a new computer, I see X as the thing I'll use to pull the video off the 4S and mess around with. literally just that.

Ultimately, all it is is a souped up iMovie - Its a shortform mess about app, in that context I actually find it a little expensive.

but, you know - Premiere 6?

YAY.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Steve Connor
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 1:28:01 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I still hate the - forced tagging, no you cannot have bins - thing, the single keyword collection viewable at a time, that utter joke of a timeline, the audio waveforms, they don't even deserve to be called waveforms - maybe "vector simplified jagged crud at the bottom of the clip lozenge" would be more like it...
And also the insane amount of chrome and unnecessary animation going on everywhere - that drives me mad. Apple have completely lost it when it comes to app GUIs - someone has eaten their brains there. wait until they stick in magic sparkly brush icons for dissolves...

thats just a really long winded way of saying that there is stuff I really like in X - i just find it an unusable application, also I don't see any signs of it being adopted anywhere, absolutely anywhere in London - no one has, not a single soul, I keep asking around. If I ever get around to buying a new computer, I see X as the thing I'll use to pull the video off the 4S and mess around with. literally just that.

Ultimately, all it is is a souped up iMovie - Its a shortform mess about app, in that context I actually find it a little expensive."


Thanks Aindreas you haven't trotted that one out for a while now

Steve Connor
"Sometimes it's fun to poke an angry bear with a stickl"
Adrenalin Television


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James Mortner
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 1:29:11 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Ultimately, all it is is a souped up iMovie - Its a shortform mess about app, in that context I actually find it a little expensive."

Weeeellll, I dunno about that. It could bring some interesting things to the table. Its a shame I cant use it at work more but there you go...I dont wanna rehash the for and against stuff cause its tiring. I'm in agreement with you broadly.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but, you know - Premiere 6?

YAY."


Yeah but where are the AJA drivers ? Seriously, it's totally ridiculous they aren't all over that. Unless there's a conspiracy afoot...


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 1:35:32 pm

Sorry if this has been posted before, but here's what AJA said about it way back before NAB:

http://www.aja.com/en/articles/171/

Maybe their dog ate their SDK...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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James Mortner
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 1:38:18 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Maybe their dog ate their SDK..."

Yeah exactly, it still says "coming soon" on the download page. Please help us Adobe !


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Richard Herd
Re: Short read on the frustration over the title "editor" meaning too little
on May 16, 2012 at 3:51:16 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "dynamic trimming and they never got it together"

Well, sometimes folks want to know how to do it and other times they don't. Assuming you do, in X, the Precision Editor is awesome, and that's what it's called, Precision Editor. There's a catch. You have to select the option for "show detailed feedback" in the Options menu, CMD-, .



[Aindreas Gallagher] "no you cannot have bins"

So technically we don't need bins because our media are not celluloid. So even the word bin is a metaphor, but I like my folders, logical arrangements of my footage. I put my media into folders using OS. Then I select the option of "import folders as keyword collections," so when I import footage they are already keyworded. This has proven useful recently when there were a few changes in the audio. I just dropped the new audio into the folder and imported.


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