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FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!

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Gary Slickman
FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 1:56:31 am

Just for kicks I went to the PP forum to check out all of the hoopla sorrounding the second coming (though in Adobe's case it's really the first coming) but it was dull and lifeless compared to the frenetic energy created here at FCPX central.

Amazing or ironic that with all of the buzz, hype and love fest sorrounding PP6, it's here that everyone comes to congregate, contemplate, commiserate, celebrate or just plain hate. Whether you are eating out of Apple's hand or biting the hand that feeds you and gets your juices flowing, this has to be the most lively entertaining COW patch on the COW.

The passion of the nay sayers and haters are going to be sorely missed once they migrate over to the bland fantasy land of PP6...I think you'll miss us as well.

P.S. Hey over at Autodesk there may be Smoke but there ain't no spark nor fire neither...

I bid you adieu.



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Craig Seeman
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 2:29:30 am

Welcome to the
World NLE Wrestling Federation.



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Michael Gissing
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 3:56:24 am

The purpose of this forum is to compare, contrast and chew the fat. It is not really a forum for FCPX but for all NLEs to be robustly discussed. Aside from the fanboy/hater tags that so easily flow, the majority of people here are here to air likes & dislikes about all NLEs and are neither. Saying we may hate is far too simplistic. Hang around for a while and you might see that the pendulum is swinging but not going too crazy. I don't hate any of the NLEs. To hate implies that you once loved and were spurned. I have never had such emotions about an NLE.

All the technique type forums are tame compared to this one and despite many calls to change the name so as to reflect the open nature rather than a particular bias to FCPX, after one year there seems no real purpose to changing names or the manner in which we choose to debate.


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Bobby Mosca
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 2:33:30 pm

I think the name works. I may be wrong, but even if Apple doesn't end up revolutionizing NLEs and changing the way we work, they certainly lit a fire under some folks to get us thinking and agitating about it more. Instead of just riding in the cart, we've picked up the whip and starting hitting the developers. So FCPX really could end up changing everything in post! Not in the way they might have wanted, but still a win.


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Craig Seeman
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 3:15:10 pm

[Bobby Mosca] "So FCPX really could end up changing everything in post! Not in the way they might have wanted, but still a win."

It may even be a win for Apple. When you see things like Smoke for Mac and Adobe beginning to support OpenCL and MC/Symphony advancing their Mac development and even showing products on iMacs, Apple actually wins. Least we forget, Apple uses software to sell hardware and if they've ignited other developers to advance their Mac support as they rush in to fill the FCP7 void, it's good news for them.

The real test will be to see whether facilities shift to Windows vs facilities who consider iMacs and/or any power beast Apple might have in the wings. Basically if Apple pushes developers into deeper Mac support they win.



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Bobby Mosca
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 5:46:49 pm

We'll see what happens this year, but so far all evidence suggests Apple does not care about selling that kind of hardware.


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Craig Seeman
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 6:01:17 pm

[Bobby Mosca] "We'll see what happens this year, but so far all evidence suggests Apple does not care about selling that kind of hardware."

What kind of hardware are you thinking of? I don't know what "evidence" you have but a lot of the financials indicate otherwise.

Apple certainly cares about selling iMacs. The point is that these companies are targeting iMacs and MacBookPro. Look at Autodesk Smoke.

The Tower may soon be gone but Apple is a leader in high end laptops and all in ones. As I've stated elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised by an iMacPro coming out.



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Bobby Mosca
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 8:35:55 pm

I mean the 'power beasts' you are referring to. Everything they are making is trending smaller and lighter. All the rumors (for what they are worth) suggest the beasts that are left are on the way out.


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Craig Seeman
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 8:53:41 pm

[Bobby Mosca] "the beasts that are left are on the way out."

MacPro is on the way out.
That's not the only form a beast can take.
Apple hasn't pulled the MacPro for a reason. Its demise will be timed to what Apple deems is a replacement. It isn't likely to be a tower though.



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Robert Brown
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 4:20:54 pm

It's like Pro Wrestling. You only succeed if people love you OR hate you. Indifference is death.

But there are good posters and a lot of topics discussed so it's a good thread to keep up on.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


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Dustin Parsons
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 5:15:41 pm

FCPX Central is the Apple FCPX Technique Forums. This forum is a place of discussion for all NLEs as well as industry news in general. The fact that this forum still has FCPX in the name can throw people off a bit but the name remains the same because X started the discussion.


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Shawn Miller
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 2, 2012 at 6:13:10 pm

[Gary Slickman] "The passion of the nay sayers and haters are going to be sorely missed once they migrate over to the bland fantasy land of PP6...I think you'll miss us as well."

Sooo... is the concern that too many former FCP users are curious or excited to try the CS6 release, or are you disappointed that there isn't enough debate on the Premiere Pro and Smoke forums? Would it be better if the 'X Sux' and 'X Rulz' threads were more evenly distributed thoughout the Cow?

Shawn



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Gary Slickman
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 3, 2012 at 12:31:39 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Sooo... is the concern that too many former FCP users are curious or excited to try the CS6 release, or are you disappointed that there isn't enough debate on the Premiere Pro and Smoke forums? "

This is such a passionate, evocative forum that stimulates thinking about a myriad of pertinent topics on so many levels. Marketing strategy of the hardware/software providers, editing techniques and philosophies, technical issues that delve deep into the inner workings of the “man behind the curtain”, adversarial relationships are only a few of the themes that have led to high energy, enlightening and entertaining, exchanges.

Whether they are right, wrong or misunderstood, no company gets the juices flowing like Apple. They are innovators and instigators.

My technical knowledge of hardware is pretty shallow compared to most of the contributors. CUDA tell you much about Open GL acceleration, the Optix or Mercury engines or whether Thunderbolt is a true “super hero” solution? No.

But I gain so much benefit, useful information and ideas from the willing or should I say driven, participation of the thought leaders of our community to go head to head in heated debate.

I was merely lamenting the day when the Smoke clears and there is less Avid discussion about Apple’s core values. It just won’t be a Premiere day in my professional life…;)



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Shawn Miller
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 3, 2012 at 5:24:44 pm

[Gary Slickman] "This is such a passionate, evocative forum that stimulates thinking about a myriad of pertinent topics on so many levels. Marketing strategy of the hardware/software providers, editing techniques and philosophies, technical issues that delve deep into the inner workings of the “man behind the curtain”, adversarial relationships are only a few of the themes that have led to high energy, enlightening and entertaining, exchanges."

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree here. But that seems to be the purpose of a debate forum, no? The other Cow forums you mentioned aren't.

[Gary Slickman] "Whether they are right, wrong or misunderstood, no company gets the juices flowing like Apple."

Now this, I have to disagree with. IMO, it may be more fair to say "no company gets MY juices flowing like Apple." I've felt for a long time that FCP users (and Mac users in general) have needed to 'get out' a bit more and understand the wider world of post production. Apple certainly is innovative, but no moreso than Autodesk, Avid, Adobe, Pixologic, Nextlimit, Maxon, Triple Squid Software Design, Anderson Technologies or any of the few thousand other hardware and software vendors that service the creative community. Want to see passion, debate and theater? Go to reduser.net and suggest that The Epic X is a desperate attempt make a true digital cinema camera that can compete with Arri's Alexa. :-)

Shawn



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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 4, 2012 at 4:54:24 am

[Shawn Miller] "I've felt for a long time that FCP users (and Mac users in general) have needed to 'get out' a bit more and understand the wider world of post production. Apple certainly is innovative, but no moreso than Autodesk, Avid, Adobe, Pixologic, Nextlimit, Maxon, Triple Squid Software Design, Anderson Technologies or any of the few thousand other hardware and software vendors that service the creative community. "

I will quietly and respectfully note that this is *you're* definition of what Mac users need. Mine is decidedly different.

I actually think that for most working editors, all they really want to do is decide the platform - then start down the long, long road to gaining mastery of it.

The central truth of editing, is that it really doesn't start to pay off until your tools disappear from your conscious thought and you can work instinctively - paying careful attention to the flow of your program and hardly any to "how do I make the software do function A."

The people who need to fully understand all the editing programs you note above are the decision makers in the shop/workflow/hardware managerial class - and system integrators.

This thinking brings to mind another thing that's always surprised me...

I've known quite a few professional writers in my time. A fact that's alwsy surprised me is that someone who's superb at writing advertising copy, or screenplays, or novels, or technical manuals - is hardly ever at that same level writing in any other genres. They can be competent - but very seldom are they really excellent.

A few outliers can do really well in multiple even somewhat closely associated areas of professional work - but just a few.

I think it's the same with editing software operation.

You can certainly be competent with with quite a few. But it's hard to excel above the pack if you're always trying to be a "jack of all trades."

Those who disagree, feel free to make your case.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Shawn Miller
Re: FCPX You May Hate but You Still Come Here to Congregate!
on May 4, 2012 at 7:50:42 am

[Bill Davis] "I will quietly and respectfully note that this is *you're* definition of what Mac users need. Mine is decidedly different."

I think you may have misunderstood what I said, Bill. I'm not trying to tell you what Mac users need. I was responding to Gary's statement "no company gets the juices flowing like Apple." I simply disagree with that notion... there are a lot of great companies doing innovative work, and some of them inspire the same kind of passionate debate and discussion that we were talking about earlier. I just don't think the world of post production revolves around Apple.

[Bill Davis] "The people who need to fully understand all the editing programs you note above are the decision makers in the shop/workflow/hardware managerial class - and system integrators."

First, not all of the companies I listed develop NLE software - perhaps if you got out more... just kidding. If you go back and read what I wrote, you may note that I listed software companies that have products and technologies which are every bit as innovative as Apple's... though I never named any specific applications. Second, I never said anything about needing to understand a bunch of editing programs. I just think it's (generally) a good practice to get outside of your comfort zone once in a while, and see what other tools, processes and platforms other people are using in their day to day work.


[Bill Davis] "This thinking brings to mind another thing that's always surprised me...

I've known quite a few professional writers in my time. A fact that's alwsy surprised me is that someone who's superb at writing advertising copy, or screenplays, or novels, or technical manuals - is hardly ever at that same level writing in any other genres. They can be competent - but very seldom are they really excellent."


You seem to be responding to something I never said, or implied. Where did I express any opinions about being a specialist as opposed to being a generalist? Again, I was just making the point that there are a lot of companies providing innovative products and technologies for creative professionals... companies that spark lively discussion and heated debate... companies that aren't Apple.

[Bill Davis] "You can certainly be competent with with quite a few. But it's hard to excel above the pack if you're always trying to be a "jack of all trades."

Those who disagree, feel free to make your case."


Okay, I'll bite.... but for the record, this is NOT what we were originally talking about. I seem to remember you having an exchange with Walter Soyka on this subject a while ago. Being a generalist myself, I tend to agree with Walter's comments in the thread below.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/25161

[Walter Soyka]"Gathering skills that span disciplines, though -- like an editor learning compositing -- that's the foundation of being a generalist. The fact that software developers sell suites instead of products, and that every editor here knows how to pull a key speaks to how generalized our industry has become.

Editorial, compositing, audio, color grading, motion graphics -- these are all areas of specialty, with room for high degrees of expertise and nuanced expression out of the reach of anyone other than a specialist -- and they are all practiced by generalists such as yourself and most of us here.

Everyone knows the first half of the saying, but the second half is rarely heard. It seems apropos to emphasize here:

Jack of all trades,
Master of none,
But ofttimes better
Than master of one."




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