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COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

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Declan Smith
It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:43:11 am

Apple are out to make money. Why is it in their interest to have to support video professionals and organisations that make support demands on them? It's not. There are only a few video professionals compared to the a large number of consumers who would like to think they are professional, and anything with the word Pro in sounds sexy and with an X as well?

Video professionals need a workflow that needs to be established (to a point) so there is a common language. I guess Apple are chasing the new breed who will do as Apple says and who don't know what a tape workflow is and are more at ease with their DSLR and macbookpro in a coffee bar claiming that their 7D test footage cut on FCP X makes them a filmmaker!

Big companies don't need to listen, they need to make money. I will not be an early adopter of FCP X. Having been on the receiving end of software deaths before (Combustion, Shake and now Color) I am not in a hurry to change. I hadn't realised that I have Premiere Pro CS5.5 (as it came with production suite, which I got for Photoshop and After Effects), so although I haven't used that, I was interested enough to look around the adobe website. A few interesting looking videos. At least adobe appears to have a strategy and commitment to professional video editing.

http://tv.adobe.com/watch/industry-trends/adobes-vision-for-professional-vi...

Apple is Apple after all. The company that does have some nice products, but mostly survive on hype, marketting, brand brain washing of the young, and the principle of the emperors new clothes. Apple keep 're-inventing', 're-defining', coming up with 'game changers'. They didn't invent tablet computers, mp3, smart phone or Video production software. They just stamped their logo on and let the faithful pay. Well Apple, I for one am not interested in game changing or re-inventing anything but I am interested in progression. Perhaps the idea of having all your eggs in one basket has had it's day? For me, my FCS3 system is working a treat....for now at least.

(please note the 7D in my signature doesn't mean I frequent coffee shops with my macbook pro :) )

Declan Smith
http://www.madpanic.tv
FCS3 / After Effects CS5 / Combustion / Canon 7D / Canon XL2


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TS O'Grady
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:47:54 am

Thanks. There hasn't been enough FUD on this forum today.



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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:05:47 am

[TS O'Grady] "Thanks. There hasn't been enough FUD on this forum today."

Seriously Dude! What do you expect people to say?

You may be an eternal optimist but at some point reality is gonna catch up with you.


Sohrab

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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Walter Soyka
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:29:59 am

[TS O'Grady] "There hasn't been enough FUD on this forum today."

This isn't your garden-variety FUD, though. Apple has created their own FUD by releasing this puzzling upgrade that alienates many, many current FCP users -- and then staying silent about the missing pieces.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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William Carr
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:20:03 am

(It's not an upgrade.)


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Walter Soyka
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:54:01 am

[William Carr] "(It's not an upgrade.)"

True. I have made this mistake a couple times today on this forum, and I ought to stop calling it an upgrade.

That said, FCPX is a software package with the same name as a recently EOL'ed software package with similar functionality from the same developer, but which carries a higher version number. Surely you can see how I keep getting confused.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 8:10:22 am

[Walter Soyka] o"and I ought to stop calling it an upgrade."

Well, it's not easy, because calling FCP X is an insult for itself (I mean apart from this move to ditch pro market, a whole application, I did give my strong critique of this software as soon as sneak preview was held 2 months ago, because I saw it coming and I saw it coming for few years now).

Having all this aside, if we admit; yes, they are after the profit and after the "i" revolution, and they don't care about us...
BUT why call it "Final Cut Pro X" or "FCP anything", when it clearly has nothing to do with FCP!

That's just simply misleading. That's why word "upgrade" is in our mind.

I said this before too; unless "X" stands for "EX" :) spot on.


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Buddy Couch
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:34:22 am

People do not like change, this is obvious. I for one embrace change, were it not for change we would still be making a 4 day trip on a horse into town. There is a reason HDSLR filming has exploded onto the scene. Everyone had 10 grand in lenses laying about when all of a sudden HD was put on the SLR. It was a match made in heaven. In the hands of a pro, it is very good video. Everything is going digital, haven't you seen red's list of movie credits? That being said, I do not understand why Apple would force everyone to change over to an entirely different workflow. I still believe changes will be coming soon, or should I say additions. Corporations do some really strange stuff sometimes.

I have read many scathing reviews of a software that has been out for less than 24 hours. There is no way these people have had the time to gain enough knowledge about the product to even attempt to make a worthwhile assessment. Sure you can say well this particular thing is different in FC7. That still doesn't mean they didn't address it, maybe you just haven't figured it out yet. I am not speaking to all of the issues that have been mentioned, just some of the more reactionary rants that have been put out there.

Apple didn't become the mainstay in professional editing by accident you know? People get caught up in this idea that all they care about is Igadgets. Apple is a very large company and has different divisions you know? I am certain FCP X software coders were not in there going "you know, screw making this work for old FCP users, lets get it to work on Iphone 5 hardware for fun". If the division doesn't perform well they have the corporation to answer too. They have probably made a lot of money today, but it won't last on hype alone. There has to be continued support or else it will fail. I look at their track record over the last 13 years or so and If I was you, I wouldn't bet against them.

Would you have been happier if they charged you 500 dollars just to give you the puppet tool? I personally hate new updates that charge a thousand dollars just to give you a new loading screen and an update or maybe 2, when most of the time they are bug fixes and not true updates.

In six months, if they have not addressed your concerns I will gladly eat my own words. Betting against a proven winner with bottomless pockets that are lined with platinum is not something I am willing to do. Just remember if Apple was concerned about grandma being able to make birthday movies as someone said in another post, they could have easily made final cut pro express X for $99.99.

Some of you are showing your age :) Don't you realize the older you get the more you resist change. Can't teach an old dog new tricks is what I have always heard. They made your job in many aspects a lot easier and you don't like it. Its much easier to find a reason something doesn't work, or won't work than it is to roll up your sleeves and find a way to get it done.

My 2 cents.


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:50:27 am

[Buddy Couch] "Apple didn't become the mainstay in professional editing by accident you know?"

It did. FCP was bought by Apple to spite Avid which said around that time that Mac is dead and they are not going to develop anything for this platform any more. It happened FCP interface made more sense for people than the rest of the NLE apps. It was simply less confusing. And QuickTime despite all the crap people say about it was the solid foundation that let FCP to drag about for ten years.


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Dom Silverio
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:50:01 am

[Michael Aranyshev] "
It did. FCP was bought by Apple to spite Avid which said around that time that Mac is dead and they are not going to develop anything for this platform any more. It happened FCP interface made more sense for people than the rest of the NLE apps. It was simply less confusing. And QuickTime despite all the crap people say about it was the solid foundation that let FCP to drag about for ten years."


Actually, Avid began developing for the PC platform because Apple decided that 3 PCI slots will be the future of Macs, 3rd party developers be damned. Avid, unfortunately, needed 4 or more PCI slots. That was the real reason Avid developed the PC platform.


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:02:21 am

Limited number of slots is a genuine problem but still they were more than happy to sell ProTools with expansion chassis. Still do.


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Dom Silverio
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:27:38 am

And?
Does it not underline the point of having 3 PCI slots is a problem?


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Scott Sheriff
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:01:24 am

[Buddy Couch] "Some of you are showing your age :) Don't you realize the older you get the more you resist change. Can't teach an old dog new tricks is what I have always heard."

So how long you been an editor?
Obviously a long time. Because with the vast wealth of knowledge and vast professional experience you've gained over the years you thought it was a good idea to put this in one of your first posts?
I'm not even going to talk about that pollyanna attitude regarding Apple.
Please do regale us with more of your wisdom.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Declan Smith
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:58:59 am

You're right on a few things and made assumptions on others.

1. People do like change if change is for good reason, this is something you learn with age. Most FCP users wanted FCP to change so that it actually uses all the cores in the Apple hardware and perhaps addresses all the RAM for example. Alot of people were looking forward to change, but it lacking in certain key features means they can't.

2. HD in an SLR is not a match made in heaven. It has it's uses and it has it's limitations, it can look nice, but it's not exactly the main stay of the video / film industry.

3. Apple have to be one of the worst at releasing featureless updates. FCS2 -3 comes to mind. Another thing that age tells you is to under promise and over deliver, something that Apple appears to have transposed.

4. Who knows how Apple think. Personally, I would have thought that hooking your existing user base would have been an honourable aim. When you lose a customer, you lose them for a long time. I wouldn't dream of treating a customer with such contempt.

5. You don't know my age, you don't know my job. But I am old enough to have respect for people that have made this their living and as far as 'making the job easier', I don't see how any software has made the craft and decision making of editing any easier. Professional editors don't just press buttons, they edit. I am not a professional editor, but I have seen them at work, and it's a creative process, one that requires certain mundane things (like instructing the computer what to do) to happen and not get in the way. People will invest the time to 'learn new tricks' as you put it, given that there is sufficient justification to do so. Giving us a new car that is painted with shiny iridescent paint, has an awesome sound system, but you can't change gear and it always turns left might be revolutionary, but is not ready to help us travel to where we want to be until these issues are resolved.

Declan Smith
http://www.madpanic.tv
FCS3 / After Effects CS5 / Combustion / Canon 7D / Canon XL2


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David Burch
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 4:01:46 am

It isn't the new features that's the problem, or the concept of change. It's the lack of old features that are absolutely essential to many pro workflows. Imagine you owned a kayak and were forced to "upgrade" to a new model that was very streamlined and much more maneuverable but didn't come with a paddle. You can't just say "Paddles are old, moving with my hands is a change I welcome!". Change is good as long as it is in the right direction. With FCPX, many of us feel like we were just set back 10 years.


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Tom Daigon
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 4:03:33 am

Yes, up the creek without a paddle is a good description of things. ;-)

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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William Carr
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:21:35 am

(It's not an upgrade.)


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David Roth Weiss
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:41:14 am

[Buddy Couch] "In six months, if they have not addressed your concerns I will gladly eat my own words."

They didn't address most concerns in over seven years, why suddenly are they do it in six months?


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Buddy Couch
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 27, 2011 at 11:24:29 pm

LOL David..okay okay. We shall see I guess?

I promise I will come back in 6 months if NOTHING has changed and apologize. I just do not see "nothing" happening. Putting six month schedule in my Blackberry now :).

See I bet most of you thought I had an Iphone in left hand tweeting "Apple is great" and reading it with an Ipad in my right hand.

Anyway have a good evening.

Buddy C


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Scott Sheriff
Re: It's simple ..
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:45:55 am

[Declan Smith] "(please note the 7D in my signature doesn't mean I frequent coffee shops with my macbook pro :) )"

LOL

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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