FORUMS: list search recent posts

A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Kevin Zimmerman
A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 4:28:42 pm

So, I participated a bit in the original flare-up of outrage and shock when FCPX was originally released. I put a fair amount of effort into working with it, wrote down my objections in a handful of online forums, talked about it over a couple of beers, and then pretty much gave up and went back to work.

My question is pretty simple, and it's intended for editors who are working with FCPX in a professional work environment, for paying clients.

How do you deal with the one edit per project architecture of FCPX? I think there are many, many issues to spiral out of control over with FCPX, but this framework that Apple is created — where a project IS a single timeline, and therefore IS a single cut — baffles me. And I have no idea how I would work around it.

The idea that, with clients in the room asking to see a subtle difference between two versions of an edit ("here's one that starts with the wide, here's one that starts with a medium," that kind of thing), I need to actually click between different PROJECTS is just... well, I find it laughably useless.

Anyway. So. Now that it's been out in the wild for a year, what do you do?


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 4:38:20 pm

[Kevin Zimmerman] "How do you deal with the one edit per project architecture of FCPX? I think there are many, many issues to spiral out of control over with FCPX, but this framework that Apple is created — where a project IS a single timeline, and therefore IS a single cut — baffles me. And I have no idea how I would work around it."

I don't know what the problem would be if you understand how FCPX works.
You can certainly create multiple projects (timelines) tied to an event.
I create a folder in the Project Library for all Projects (timelines) tied to a specific job.

You can create Compound Clips in the Event (rather than the timeline) so you have many "sequences" you can edit if you like building elements first.


[Kevin Zimmerman] "The idea that, with clients in the room asking to see a subtle difference between two versions of an edit ("here's one that starts with the wide, here's one that starts with a medium," that kind of thing)"

If it's just shot changes that's what Auditions are for.



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 5:16:57 pm

adding one more thing.

You can play the Projects inside the Project Library.
You don't need to click on them to open the Timeline unless and until you're actually going to edit them.
This is, in part, how I use folders in the Project Library. Only the client's folder is open and I can go through the different projects with them.

Think how much faster it can be to work this way.
Rather than having to double click on sequences after sequence to either open the timeline or drop into the viewer, you can just play them right in the project library. That can save a number of clicks.

Some of the criticism of FCPX has to do with either trying to mimic old methods or simply not understanding it well enough to use new (and often faster) methods. Between this (for entire sequences) or Auditions (for individual shots) or Compound Clips (for playing built elements), there's a lot of speed and flexibility.


Return to posts index


Jason Porthouse
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 5:32:02 pm

OK, it sounds a bit like you haven't been 'assimilated' into X yet. I get where you're coming from, I ws the same until I had a Eureka moment. Treat projects as you would timelines in 7, and if you want to organise them more sensibly separate them using folders - a folder for each 'Project' (using FCP7 parlance). You can switch back and forth almost as quickly in this way as you can in 7 - OK not quite as fast as tabbing, but usably fast. Copy and paste between projects as you would in 7.

Use Auditions where possible, and compound clips work very well in X too.

Use Event Manager X to switch off unwanted events.

Once you get used to working in this way and stop fighting X's organisational hierarchy, you'll find it much easier.

HTH

Jason

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.

*the artist formally known as Jaymags*


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 5:25:20 pm

Ditto. It's really just semantics. Projects are sequences. And just for media management purposes, they are tied to an event. Events are more akin to "projects" from FCP 7.

Think of it this way, groups of bins are events, and sequences are projects. You can't have more than on sequence open, but you can click between a couple almost instantly for the purposes of copy/paste sections and elements.

I also create a folder to group various sequences together. I just duplicate sequences(projects) and append v1, v2, etc just like in 7.

Avid essentially works the same way. While they do have projects that group bins and sequences together, bins exist separately of project files on the hard drive. Sequences must exist in a bin. You can only open one project at a time in Avid, BUT, you can open other project bins, and like X, the bins are attributed to particular projects.

It's really nice that in X, you can open up the project browser and bee any project, or export any project, without opening it to edit. It's still in an infantile stage of development, but it's a much better media management system than FCP 7 overall.

If you really want sequences in bins, you can take an entire project and make it a compound clip. Then, for all intense purposes it's now a sequence, in a bin, in an event. That's what Hodgetts 7toX app does to get FCP 7 sequences into X.


Return to posts index

Logan Kelsey
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 5:22:55 pm

[Kevin Zimmerman] "How do you deal with the one edit per project architecture of FCPX? I think there are many, many issues to spiral out of control over with FCPX, but this framework that Apple is created — where a project IS a single timeline, and therefore IS a single cut — baffles me. And I have no idea how I would work around it."

I just create folders in the Project library for each job. Versioning is done by duplicating the Project (timeline) and re-naming. Pretty simple.


Cheers,
Logan

Vertical Online
http://www.verticalonline.com


Return to posts index


Richard Herd
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 5:33:55 pm

[Kevin Zimmerman] "How do you deal with the one edit per project architecture of FCPX? "

They changed the nomenclature, which is a bit baffling.

If you're trying to comply with a NDA for example, then the way to go is use .dmg and keep the stuff separate, by unmounting and mounting as you need.


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 6:11:06 pm

Just to echo the general opinion - it's simply semantics if you think the flexibility has been stripped away.

Using the project browser is a pretty slick way to show a client multiple versions of a project and as Craig mentions, played in real time outside of the timeline.

Likewise, Auditioning (which has come in really handy for in-house comparisons of grades and FX as well as alternate takes) is a very slick way of showing clients comparative edits.

Not that it doesn't need to catch up on a lot of basic niggling things and a few big ones, but a lot of the issues that seem to put people off about X are things that they don't understand exist but are different.

And often better.


Return to posts index

alban egger
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 6:44:19 pm

Kevin,
I suggest you watch some training. Where you feel FCPX is limited is exactly where it is strong.

Auditions are very powerful to make different edits in one timeline.
Example: I have a spot that ends with ...
a) a face
b) a family

there are also two versions of the brand´s corporate sound and 2 logos.

I take the face, connect the slogan and the sound in version 1.
Now I create an audition with the family shot, connect the other slogan and sound version.

When I change the Audition (I made myself a new keyboard short ( CTRL-OPT-leftarrow) I immediately change the connected clips also. So with one click I change the shot, the graphic and the sound of the ending. And that´s all in the timeline ("project")

In other cases I would duplicate the Project and make changes there and as some already suggested, show the version on the project library level. Very slick and every client who sees that the first time is in awe.

Depending on how you different versions look I usually end up with a mix of projects, auditions and compound clips ( e.g. if the graphics are finalized). If you add the timeline item list (on the left bottom of the timeline) and the involved metadata and roles this can work even in very very large projects.

This beats anything I ever saw in other NLEs. So while it looks like a limited paradigm at first, it is extremely powerful and flexible.



Return to posts index


John Davidson
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 6:37:18 pm

I'd give anything for a 'classic nomenclature' preference to simply change the text of the words projects and events to what we've been using for years. That alone would drive me less crazy.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 9:01:31 pm

While you guys all seem to be jazzed about the project browser structure, it strikes me as completely inadequate. "Management" is relegated to working manually in the Finder or using a third party product (Event Manager). I'm sorry, but that's simply a workaround. In the inevitable Coke vs. Pepsi example, if I don't want competing clients accidentally exposed to a competitor's timeline or event content, I have to remove it from the visible folders that X looks at.

Second issue is RAM. Yes, you can place multiple projects into folders, but any open projects have to be buffered into RAM in order to enable skimming. If you have a lot of visible projects in the browser and these contain a lot of effects and Motion titles, it can take quite a long time for FCP X to initially open.

Add to this the broadcast monitoring issue where you have to exit FCP X and change format settings in the Pref Pane when changing between projects with different format settings.

Sorry, these items are not up to par, yet. Doesn't mean you can't work within these constraints, but it's not as good as FCP 7 (or PPro or Avid).

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 9:52:38 pm

[Oliver Peters] "While you guys all seem to be jazzed about the project browser structure, it strikes me as completely inadequate. "Management" is relegated to working manually in the Finder or using a third party product (Event Manager). I'm sorry, but that's simply a workaround."

I could not disagree more.

As half a dozen people here have indicated, X has an array of perfectly usable array management tools for versioning work for client review.

I'm not arguing that it might fail to work in any one editors preferred style. But multiple people here who work with it regularly have indicated that it works really well for them.

Once again, this entire thread is a reinforcement that a large swath of the people who have the largest problem with X are those who came to it expecting it to work in a fashion that they're well conditioned to expecting - and they quashed their curiosity about how it actually works too soon after it failed to meet those expectations. (I say "too soon" because like the OP, they tend to demonstrate a lack of very deep knowledge about how the program actually works much beyond surface issues.)

I think it's short sighted to argue that because it's feature set satisfies a user with alternate expectations that the person who likes it is somehow under skilled or too foolish to see deep flaws that might actually NOT be deep flaws for the way they work.

For any business tool, the only truly catastrophic flaw is if it doesn't allow the user to get their work done and get paid.

There is a growing group of us who use X to make our livings. It's working just fine, thank you.

So arguing that it's "not good enough", not "pro" enough, or not "full featured" enough is dumb.

If it wasn't we wouldn't use it.

Because we're no different than you. We edit to make our livings.

And if the tool doesn't work, we don't get paid.

Period.





So what's the problem?

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 10:17:29 pm

[Bill Davis] "I could not disagree more."

Gee whiz Bill. Somehow you take every argument about issues and concerns with the product personally. As if you are right and everyone else is wrong. In it's current design, there are definitely holes that need to be addressed. Project and event management is one of those. There currently is NONE within the application itself.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 1:32:42 am

[Oliver Peters] "Project and event management is one of those. There currently is NONE within the application itself."

Huh?

What's the project library?

I can manage projects in the project library. I can publish them, delete them, rename them. Correct them and republish them. I can make 50 copies of a project, tune each one for a different purpose - and manage the resulting versions quite easily.

And X has - wait for it - and EVENT LIBRARY too. In it I can arrange, keyword, sort, sift, find and manage program assets (events, essentially) down the RANGE (sub clip) level.

This has GOT to be a case where your "definitions" of project and events are simply not the same as mine.Which is well and good at one level.

The problem is that by making contentions like this, you're implying that anyone who doesn't define these functions as you do is wrong.

Which is the entire point of my post.

If those terms need to be exclusively what YOU define them to be, then there's no way you're ever going to be happy with any product other than perhaps, the one you originally formed your biases around.

That's the whole point of X. It's an attempt to look beyond the paradigms of the past and look at some things in a new way.

X is all about a change in approach. And to allow you, me or anyone else to define failure as "change that doesn't meet my way of working" is a silly game. It presumes that your way is the correct way. And I challenge that. Why? Why is your view of what a project or an event must be correct? For whom? For what types of projects? For what type of user?

In the final analysis, there are a variety of editing software that all work like all editing software has worked for the past 20 years. And then they're X. A package that actually has a whole lot of similarities with past NLE software, but a handfull of breaks from the past standards that some of us are coming to appreciate as being better suited to specific kinds of video creation and deployment.

Trying to argue that project or event management "doesn't exist" in X is beyond silly.

The terms pervade the software interface, after all.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:28:31 am

[Bill Davis] "Huh? What's the project library? "

That requires that the application always sees all the projects and all the media. There is no way to hide, disable or re-access de-activated projects from within the application. You know, your standard "file open" function. Or the Project/User pane in Avid, which is basically what Event Manager copied.

[Bill Davis] "And X has - wait for it - and EVENT LIBRARY too. In it I can arrange, keyword, sort, sift, find and manage program assets (events, essentially) down the RANGE (sub clip) level."

Same problem. You access all of the media for all clients, all sessions, etc. Just like Aperture, iMovie, iTunes and iPhoto.

[Bill Davis] "If those terms need to be exclusively what YOU define them to be, then there's no way you're ever going to be happy with any product other than perhaps, the one you originally formed your biases around. "

There's no reason to cop an attitude. The point is that for an application to work for users other then single users working only on projects under their complete control, you need some sort of management to control access to the media and timeline you want to work with at any given time. Think about shops working with diverse clients or with freelancers who come in and out.

I'm not talking about the literal Event Browser and Project Browser. I'm talking about the ability to add or remove access to events and projects from within the application. Since Apple's own "best practices" recommends manually moving these files in and out of the folders at the Finder level, it's clear that this function doesn't exist within the app itself. If there weren't a need, there would be no Event Manager. All I'm saying is that this issue should be solved within the application and the existing solutions are workarounds.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Bill Davis
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 3:37:45 am

[Oliver Peters] "That requires that the application always sees all the projects and all the media. There is no way to hide, disable or re-access de-activated projects from within the application. "

This is abjectly wrong. Creating folders in the Project library is trivial (there's a button for it) Make as many as you like. Name them anything you like (completely obscuring their internal contents at the finder level. Store your projects in them. Those projects are then "invisible" to clients watching over your shoulder with a click.

If you're talking about hiding them on an unattended machine, that's easy too.

My favorite is to simply store client A's work on it's own $140 firewire 800 drive. Unplug the drive and all the projects on it become completely inaccessible. Not even a hint of them in the interface. And that includes all the attached event content too. Plug it in, and they all auto-mount and are again available.

You can also use Hodgetts Event Manager X or just move a project out of the Event Library via the finder.

Thats multiple perfectly usable ways to do what you're saying X can't do.

[Oliver Peters] "Same problem. You access all of the media for all clients, all sessions, etc. Just like Aperture, iMovie, iTunes and iPhoto."

See above. That you don't understand how to manage volumes via external drives through X does not mean that the program "can't do it."


[Oliver Peters] "There's no reason to cop an attitude. "

I don't mean to do that at all. I do a lot of the things you're saying X "can't do" on a regular basis.

It hasn't been particularly difficult to establish a workflow that does the job for me.

Drives are cheap. Attached to X via even Firewire 800 - they're responsive and useful.

I know a lot of people who are still trying to work like Legacy where everything had to reside in a on-machine Capture Scratch for Legacy to find it - and I think that approach is still informing their approach to X.

X is totally fine with any entire project including all it's events, living on a connected drive.

I agree that if you're in a "facility" environment, then the central storage mode is less useful in X than in other software.

But X is an excellent personal editing environment that allows a seat holder to manage files to hide or reveal projects and events very easily. It does NOT force the editor to reveal their work to those they wish to keep it hidden from. It allows you to work "modularly" with inexpensive off-the-shelf hardware.

And is particularly useful for tracking multiple projects and keeping them available and publishable in real-time access environments with astonishingly little requirement for complex or expensive network infa-strucrure.

Yes it's currently best for individual and small group video creators. But the foundational structures are there to let it grow into much, much more.

And for the freelancer, it can be transformative.

Arrive with your laptop, your personal drive, and all you need is a desk, chair and the network password and you you have your own suite capable of contributing to multiple projects right out of your briefcase.

If the editors true value is seen as what's in his or her head, rather than the hardware they operate - X is a beast of seriously excellent possibilities. It's affordable, capable, agile and actually FUN to use IMO.

My 2 cents.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 1:10:18 pm

[Bill Davis] "Creating folders in the Project library is trivial (there's a button for it) Make as many as you like. Name them anything you like (completely obscuring their internal contents at the finder level."

Yes, I know. I use that all the time.

[Bill Davis] "My favorite is to simply store client A's work on it's own $140 firewire 800 drive. Unplug the drive and all the projects on it become completely inaccessible. "

Don't you view that as a major step backwards? Also not very practical in the world where the preferred Apple config is an iMac and a Promise array on Thunderbolt.

[Bill Davis] "You can also use Hodgetts Event Manager X or just move a project out of the Event Library via the finder. "

Yes, I know. Essentially, what I'm asking for is that same functionality actually built into the application.

[Bill Davis] "That you don't understand how to manage volumes via external drives through X does not mean that the program "can't do it.""

I think you are make a pretty big leap there. I'm quite aware - and also use - most of the same techniques as you. I simply view them as workarounds.

[Bill Davis] "But X is an excellent personal editing environment that allows a seat holder to manage files to hide or reveal projects and events very easily"

And that's exactly the crux of the problem. It's a "personal" editing environment.

[Bill Davis] "I don't mean to do that at all. I do a lot of the things you're saying X "can't do" on a regular basis. "

No harm. We are actually saying it does the same things. I simply feel it needs to do more. These seem to be adequate for your needs. I tend to view these are temporary (I hope) workarounds. Moving things around in the Finder level manually is the same as Avid editors moving media into separate MXF folders and relabeling the numbers. Both are viable methods of organization, but neither is ideal, once you get past a single user who knows exactly what he did, how he did it and where he put things.

[Bill Davis] "And for the freelancer, it can be transformative.
Arrive with your laptop, your personal drive, and all you need is a desk"


I completely understand that. I've done my share of convention support gigs, too. However, most of my freelance gigs are at shops with existing facilities, where I'm one of several users. That environment is where X still needs development.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:41:37 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Bill Davis] "You can also use Hodgetts Event Manager X or just move a project out of the Event Library via the finder. "

Yes, I know. Essentially, what I'm asking for is that same functionality actually built into the application."


Just my opinion (obviously) but given what I see of the interface and interaction, I expect this is coming but maybe not in the way you are thinking. I may be a separate function, possibly as part of the OS and its SAN control. The more I look FCPX and its development to more I think that some functions aren't there yet because they will coincide with something else being developed. I can share some of my speculation but that might take this off topic.



Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:46:04 pm

"I expect this is coming but maybe not in the way you are thinking."

I take that as a given! ;-). In the Apple meetings, they were quite clear that the 4 bullet point features mentioned would not be the only enhancements. Clearly, I would expect that they do have some plans to address these concerns. Obviously adding dual viewers (to be defined) was likely in response to concerns and requests.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 3:14:51 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Obviously adding dual viewers (to be defined) was likely in response to concerns and requests."

But I think multicam laid the foundation for that. Sometimes I think what seems to be non linear progress for the end user, has to do with what they feel is the easiest road for the developer. As certain things develop they can get to forks in the road where certain direction can me made.

One thing that peeved me for example is that they continued an issue that I had with FCP7 and, given the lack of dual monitors, became and even bigger issue in X. You get the 2-up if you trim in the timeline using the mouse. You do not get it if you use the keyboard.

My own guess is that Dual Viewer will still not be the same as source/record or player/canvas. It will be contextual. My understanding is that Apple said (implied, i'm inferring?) that it would be "better" so I think that means "different." One method might be using a modifier key. It might be like skimming in which the S key and enable/disable as needed.

I'd bet they're going to bring back ganging as well since this is obviously implemented in multicam.



Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 5:53:19 pm

[Craig Seeman] "My own guess is that Dual Viewer will still not be the same as source/record or player/canvas....
.....My understanding is that Apple said (implied, i'm inferring?) that it would be "better" so I think that means "different."


That's basically what Apple said to me.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 4:47:02 pm

[Bill Davis] "I agree that if you're in a "facility" environment, then the central storage mode is less useful in X than in other software.
"




[Bill Davis] "Yes it's currently best for individual and small group video creators. But the foundational structures are there to let it grow into much, much more."

That's not how Jeremy describes, fyi. Each folder on a SAN is its own event, if you choose to mount it. Once that folder becomes an event, no other editor can open it...unless they duplicate it first via finder.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 4:58:46 pm

[Richard Herd] "That's not how Jeremy describes, fyi. Each folder on a SAN is its own event, if you choose to mount it. Once that folder becomes an event, no other editor can open it...unless they duplicate it first via finder."

True, but if comparing to FCP7, it's the exact same workflow.

You can have multiple Events/Proejcts in each SAN Location.

You can have multiple SAN Locations open at the same time (on one machine).

If you need to open a Location on another machine, you simply release it from the current machine, and the other machine adds the Location. You don't have to do anything in the Finder.

Media does not need to reside within the Event which means that you can have a pool of media that everyone pulls from (must be .mov at this time) so the only thing you are duplicating are the small reference files, and any render files, but this is true of any collaborative environment.

With a lot of aspects of FCPX, it could be better, but at least the foundation is there which in my opinion, speaks to future uses and capability.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 7:44:44 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "If you need to open a Location on another machine, you simply release it from the current machine, and the other machine adds the Location. You don't have to do anything in the Finder."

I was thinking if two editors were editing the same thing. (Mike is working on audio and Mari is working on picture.)


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 7:56:40 pm

[Richard Herd] "I was thinking if two editors were editing the same thing. (Mike is working on audio and Mari is working on picture.)"

Just like FCP7, you can't work on the same project at once without consequence.

Each would need their own Project but could reference the same media.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 8:02:55 pm

What about avid and or premiere?


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 8:09:49 pm

[Richard Herd] "What about avid "

Avid has a project sharing system, it's one of it's strengths, but it's not cheap. There are cheaper ways to do it on more generic storage, but everyone says the ISIS system is rock solid.

Premiere will be just like FCP7, which is a lot of manual work, but it does not allow same project level collaboration.

Of course, there's third parties like Editshare that help with this process as well, which I'm sure means that LIghtworks will probably hook in to their system fairly easily. metaSAN v5, which was recently released, also has some project sharing tools, but I haven't had a chance to check them out.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Mark Hollander
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on May 11, 2012 at 2:55:40 pm

"My favorite is to simply store client A's work on it's own $140 firewire 800 drive."
This may work if someone only has a few clients. I have over 230 clients on my system (we make TVC's) that is a lot of firewire drives, and I work on 8-12 jobs at various points in the week, usually on the same day.
Our client management system works like this: Capture HDD-Client Name-Job Number-files. The next project for the client (might be 6 months later) will be assigned the next job number from a daily spreadsheet. In FCP7 or Premiere we can set up these folders in the finder, put the files where they are needed and start editing. In FCPX there is no way (that I have found) of putting multiple jobs for a client, over several years, in any sort of order. It likes to assume you only have 1 job per client, so alphabetical order works nice in the events list.
The catch is our admin computers and the server have the same file hierahy as the edit suites. So anyone can go to any machine and see the same filing system on an admin computer, server or edit suite.
We have 7 Macs and all have identical filing systems. FCPX stuffs the whole thing up!
Between our 3 edit suites we have over 1000 sequences from the past 5 years. If someone can show me how to organise 230 clients with anywhere from 1 to 40 projects each, and 1 to 12 sequences per client, I'll jump ship tomorrow.
IT CAN’T BE DONE!
and partitions, external drives is not an answer either.

It's not personal it's just how it is. FCPX can't do what we need.

"It beats working for a living"


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on May 11, 2012 at 3:42:50 pm

[Mark Hollander] "IT CAN’T BE DONE!"

Do you have a SAN? Or what's your current storage?


Return to posts index

Mark Bein
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:36:35 pm

[Oliver Peters] "You access all of the media for all clients, all sessions, etc. Just like Aperture, iMovie, iTunes and iPhoto."

Aperture, iMovie, iTunes and iPhoto can use multiple independent libraries.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:38:45 pm

"Aperture, iMovie, iTunes and iPhoto can use multiple independent libraries."

Correct. And if X adopted this it would be a nice addition.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Thomas Frank
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 9:57:02 pm

Well just put the clients timelines in a folder and don't have that folder open or another way each clients works is on separate drive or Mac.
There was more working in the Finder in FCP 7 and down then FCPX.
For the RAM yeah a clear RAM function would be cool. The broadcast monitoring can't really confirm since we only work in HD right.

As for working on a project in FCP7 at the same is new to me.



Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 11:33:44 pm

[Thomas Frank] "For the RAM yeah a clear RAM function would be cool. "

The application sucking up RAM like crazy as it does, may -*may?* be an architectural problem - Apple may have overshot realistic workflow and hardware - if so, the problem could prove persistent. I'm making all this up, but it could be akin to the potential database flaws occasionally mentioned by others. If it's real, and its a problem, Apple may not be in a position to unpick certain problems without gnawing at fundamental threads.

the things that freak me out as a goggling half observer are: incidents of project corruption, incidents of event corruption, autosave fails, project bloat, and a possibly incorrect approach to the database substructure itself. Some people on here really know what the FCPX database is made of, there were discussions, I don't recall them being cut and dried.

there was also a 'rollercaoster' post a bit back that dealt with a pretty much scarifying, completely irrecoverable failure of the application that destroyed both projects and events in progress with multiple attempts by apple to resolve it.

CC attributes with power masks in realtime on 2K - cool. range based keywording - cool. Timeline - having a laugh. Chrome - laid on with a trowel. Industry pickup - near Kelvin zero.

It's early doors, its a deadly serious software initiative, but yet -

in afficionados like Evan Schechtman and the financially invested trainers like Jordan and the ripple training guys, third parties like Hodgett et al, Apple have a fairly reliable chorus, but this software can only drop its pants for so long in this kind of a market, you'd have to think.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Andrew Richards
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 4:22:24 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "the things that freak me out as a goggling half observer are: incidents of project corruption, incidents of event corruption, autosave fails, project bloat, and a possibly incorrect approach to the database substructure itself. Some people on here really know what the FCPX database is made of, there were discussions, I don't recall them being cut and dried."

The Project and Event database files are CoreData-based and leverage SQLite (one of the persistent data stores that CoreData can address). So there is some OS-level stuff that could be to blame for the problems we've seen reported, or it could be app-level stuff incorrectly calling CoreData. Or both. Only the dev team could know.

One thing I find really interesting is that Lion added a new CoreData class (NSIncrementalStore) that looks like it could be used to point FCPX at shared Events and even shared Projects on a shared database like a SQL server.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:40:21 pm

Andrew,

Just a note of thanks for your postings.

Clearly your focus is more on the code underpinnings of the software than most of us who are largely focused on the user interface.

I appreciate the time you take to post here from that perspective and I always look forward to reading what you write here.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

Andrew Richards
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 7:06:58 pm

[Bill Davis] "Clearly your focus is more on the code underpinnings of the software than most of us who are largely focused on the user interface."

I'm an engineer, not an editor. Once upon a time I wanted to be an editor, and I actually have my BA in Film. I quickly gravitated to the tech side though. Now my specialty is large-scale shared storage (StorNext/Xsan in particular). I'm interested in how FCPX might evolve into a collaborative facility tool, hence my earlier speculation. I want don't want the death of Final Cut Server to be in vain!

I'm not a developer, but I find that world fascinating. One of these days I'll teach myself to code more than shell scripts.

[Bill Davis] "I appreciate the time you take to post here from that perspective and I always look forward to reading what you write here."

And I spend waaaay to much time reading and posting in here!

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 7:30:57 pm

[Andrew Richards] "The Project and Event database files are CoreData-based and leverage SQLite (one of the persistent data stores that CoreData can address). So there is some OS-level stuff that could be to blame for the problems we've seen reported, or it could be app-level stuff incorrectly calling CoreData. Or both. Only the dev team could know.

One thing I find really interesting is that Lion added a new CoreData class (NSIncrementalStore) that looks like it could be used to point FCPX at shared Events and even shared Projects on a shared database like a SQL server.
"


there you go see? - someone who actually honest to God knows what they are talking about.
I bookmarked this reply - next time I bluff the database, I'll sound more knowledgable like.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 8:08:05 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "there you go see? - someone who actually honest to God knows what they are talking about."

Yeah, I'm going to quote Andrew, just so people think I'm smart.
Unattributed of course.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 8:48:37 pm

[Jim Giberti] "Unattributed of course."

well, that goes without saying..

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Thomas Frank
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 5:39:46 pm

Event, Project etc.. fails?
Who having that? But if it does or not realty is it is all data on a computer so anything can fail.
if you are not prepared for that well I guess you haven't that much experience right?

I can't complain about any speed issues but it would be nice to have a option to clear out the RAM.
ONe thing I hate about After Effects on Windows... yuk.



Return to posts index

tony west
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 25, 2012 at 10:35:10 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Coke vs. Pepsi example, if I don't want competing clients accidentally exposed to a competitor's timeline or event content,"

This seems to be a big problem for many here, and I get it.

I'm just glad I don't have to worry about it.

Everybody I work with knows I'm working for everybody in town (so are most in a town like this : )

I think that's part of the reason they want me. Because I'm wanted hehehe

It's like that girl that doesn't want you, until another girl is looking at you.

Or like our Arena. Toyota knows they don't have a lock on this building. They got spots at the game and here comes another ride rolling in.

I don't show up on the FOX game wearing an ESPN shirt out of respect, but they know the deal.

I'm an independent.

It's not going to stop me from using the program.


Return to posts index

Rob Mackintosh
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 1:12:08 am

Every other NLE I've used allows you to manage sequences within the same window as your media.

FCPX makes the distinction between nested sequences and master sequences. Nested sequences or "compound clips" can be created, key-worded and viewed in the event browser; master sequences or "projects" have there own special browser with a reduced feature set.

Apple should do away with the project browser and allow all sequences to use FCPXs metadata tools.
If there's architectural reasons this can't be done, they've got the architecture wrong.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 1:52:22 am

[Rob Mackintosh] "Apple should do away with the project browser and allow all sequences to use FCPXs metadata tools.
If there's architectural reasons this can't be done, they've got the architecture wrong."


Nooooooooo!

Take away my project browser over my cold dead body.

It's one of my absolute favorite parts of the interface.

Without it i'm left in a world like Legacy. The moment I finish a project and close it's window, all I have access to is a dumb icon on the desktop and my notes.

In X, it doesn't matter how many projects I have on how many drives, If I'm experienced enough to store them properly - I can see them, skim them, hide and reveal them by groups - and evan export and transcode them directly from the Project library without any need to OPEN them in the software at all.

It's a KILLER project management feature.

And as to "using X's Metadata tools" - you don't understand the metadata flow in X yet. The reason that the EB treats metadata differently then Projects is that the project is downstream from the Event. This means you can use any event as a source repository for multiple projects - retain the original metadata and then alter, refine, or amend it on a project by project basis.

If you just "bolt on" metadata flow into and out of the EB and all Projects without limit, you're in chaos land. Every change in every project then flows back to all events it's linked to? Some of them? When? Via what rules?

Right now, it's simple, easily grasped (as you understand the new X overview) and very powerful. Meta data flows from camera to event browser, is inherited by Storylines, then is enshrined in the Project library. It's like a river. It flows one way in dependable steps. Undersanding that lets you apply new metadata on top of the old without penalty.

That's how it works now. And how it should work I think.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 4:04:11 am

[Oliver Peters] "While you guys all seem to be jazzed about the project browser structure, it strikes me as completely inadequate. "Management" is relegated to working manually in the Finder or using a third party product (Event Manager). I'm sorry, but that's simply a workaround. In the inevitable Coke vs. Pepsi example, if I don't want competing clients accidentally exposed to a competitor's timeline or event content, I have to remove it from the visible folders that X looks at."

Let me preface, Oliver, by saying you know your sh*t. I enjoy your insight, and respect your opinions. Your seem to be giving all of this an honest shot. No shame in that.

What most people don't have is a SAN.

We are lucky enough to have one. "SAN Locations" in FCPX work sort of like Event Manger X, but you control them right in the app. Of course they aren't perfect, but if you want NDAs between your "FedEx and UPS" clients, SAN locations take care of this right within FCPX, really easily and efficiently. As a matter of fact, if a client is over your shoulder, you can easily mount a SAN Location without them even knowing, as the name can be as abstract as you want (it's done by folders, at any level, not just root level). If you remove the SAN Location before quitting, FCPX opens as a blank slate.

If not, using the Finder to manage fcs3 project files is not an uncommon practice for you, even today. I know nothing of your organizational practice, but I feel confident that you manage your current NLE projects through the Finder. I know I do. I manage a lot through the Finder.

[Oliver Peters] "Second issue is RAM. Yes, you can place multiple projects into folders, but any open projects have to be buffered into RAM in order to enable skimming. If you have a lot of visible projects in the browser and these contain a lot of effects and Motion titles, it can take quite a long time for FCP X to initially open."

In my opinion, .0.4 has some performance fixes (it would be silly to call them "gains"). And yes there are some improvements that should be made, but I'm sure you wouldn't load all of fcp7 projects at once, it would take longer than FCPX especially depending on your project complexity, right? This is easily manageable through the Finder, and sure, it might take an extra click/drag up front.

Reliability is still up for grabs. It remains kinda weird. Backup early and often.


[Oliver Peters] "Add to this the broadcast monitoring issue where you have to exit FCP X and change format settings in the Pref Pane when changing between projects with different format settings.

Sorry, these items are not up to par, yet. Doesn't mean you can't work within these constraints, but it's not as good as FCP 7 (or PPro or Avid)."


Yes, broadcast output format is rather inconvenient. PPro 5.5 is as well. Avid also has it's hang ups. Fcp7 is the winner here.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 1:23:09 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "What most people don't have is a SAN.
We are lucky enough to have one. "SAN Locations" in FCPX work sort of like Event Manger X, but you control them right in the app. Of course they aren't perfect, but if you want NDAs between your "FedEx and UPS" clients, SAN locations take care of this right within FCPX, really easily and efficiently. As a matter of fact, if a client is over your shoulder, you can easily mount a SAN Location without them even knowing, as the name can be as abstract as you want (it's done by folders, at any level, not just root level). If you remove the SAN Location before quitting, FCPX opens as a blank slate. "


And that's part of what I'm wrestling with. I function as the ad hoc post consultant for a prod co where I edit freelance a lot. They have a 4-seat FCP 7/FibreJet SAN installation. It's volume-based, but the volumes are partitioned by room: Edit 1, 2, 3, 4. Plus they have FC Server, which has its own partition. As with most such installations, each room has read/write permission to its volume and read-only to the others.

Ignoring FC Server in this discussion - a whole different problem - I'm looking at the best way to make the system work with X in a way that is viable for multiple editors and clients. Creating SAN partitions by client requires some administrator level interaction on a regular basis, which is something I'd like to avoid.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Reliability is still up for grabs. It remains kinda weird. Backup early and often."

My biggest concern. Much more of an issue for me than any missing features.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Yes, broadcast output format is rather inconvenient. PPro 5.5 is as well. Avid also has it's hang ups. Fcp7 is the winner here. "

Hmm... MC 6 with a Kona or Decklink is pretty darn seamless. Switch projects with different formats and the cards automatically follow. No view settings to correct like in FCP 7. I like the versatility with FCP 7, but AV sync and latency has always been an issue, so I really welcome the tight integration Avid has done with these folks. I hope Adobe's Mercury Transmit in CS6 will work as well. That being said, X works reasonably well with the latest drivers and update and really, really well with AJA's units.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 3:19:33 pm

[Oliver Peters] " It's volume-based, but the volumes are partitioned by room: Edit 1, 2, 3, 4. Plus they have FC Server, which has its own partition. As with most such installations, each room has read/write permission to its volume and read-only to the others."

OK, so you're good then, right? If you install FCPX, then each bay can use as many SAN Locations as they need in their bay. Also, since FCPX can reference .movs, the media can reside any any partition, just the Event/Project will be on any particular bay's partition.

[Oliver Peters] "Ignoring FC Server in this discussion - a whole different problem - I'm looking at the best way to make the system work with X in a way that is viable for multiple editors and clients. Creating SAN partitions by client requires some administrator level interaction on a regular basis, which is something I'd like to avoid."

It's not a SAN partition, though, it's a SAN Location, which is a folder. You can mount as many SAN Locations in FCPX as you want. Here's a grab with four different SAN Locations. Our SAN is just a wad of storage, so everyone has access to everything, but we all like each other and communicate well:



sanlocos.png

This means that any SAN location can be mounted on any machine.

I know it is far from perfect, but I must say that doesn't this capability surpass FCP7 in which you can get yourself in to a lot of trouble without a bunch of admin juju? There's not much to do but add a Location, and it's actually built in to X. I know that it's not available for local storage, and maybe it should be, but EVM takes care of this pretty well for very cheap.

[Oliver Peters] "
[Jeremy Garchow] "Reliability is still up for grabs. It remains kinda weird. Backup early and often."

My biggest concern. Much more of an issue for me than any missing features."


Totally agree. Without reliability, you have nothing.

[Oliver Peters] "Hmm... MC 6 with a Kona or Decklink is pretty darn seamless. Switch projects with different formats and the cards automatically follow. No view settings to correct like in FCP 7. I like the versatility with FCP 7, but AV sync and latency has always been an issue, so I really welcome the tight integration Avid has done with these folks. I hope Adobe's Mercury Transmit in CS6 will work as well."

Yes, but you still can't go from 23.98 to 29.97 like you can in FCP7, right? I use that feature all the time. Avid's tape capture/accuracy is truly the gold standard. No argument there.

I hope Transmit delivers the goods as well, time will tell.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:07:31 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "OK, so you're good then, right? If you install FCPX, then each bay can use as many SAN Locations as they need in their bay. Also, since FCPX can reference .movs, the media can reside any any partition, just the Event/Project will be on any particular bay's partition."

No. It seems that if I go to Add SAN Location and navigate to the volume where I have write permission, everything is greyed out. Might be how the FibreJet software controls things. I suspect Apple only tested this with Xsan, which is file and not volume-based. Thoughts?

[Jeremy Garchow] "Yes, but you still can't go from 23.98 to 29.97 like you can in FCP7, right? I use that feature all the time. Avid's tape capture/accuracy is truly the gold standard. No argument there."

Haven't actually checked that. The format is tied to the project in Avid, so when you change from one to the other it resets the card. This should all be fine in 1080, because these are both legal standards in the 1080 VTR world, but you may have P versus PsF issues to contend with.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:24:57 pm

[Oliver Peters] "No. It seems that if I go to Add SAN Location and navigate to the volume where I have write permission, everything is greyed out. "

Have you tried making a folder and pointing the SAN Location to that instead of the whole volume?

The only requirements listed in the manual are: "The SAN location feature requires a SAN volume, such as an Xsan volume connected using the Fibre Channel Protocol (FCP)."

Funny that you need FCP to connect FCP. Ha!

[Oliver Peters] "Might be how the FibreJet software controls things. I suspect Apple only tested this with Xsan, which is file and not volume-based. Thoughts?"

We use metaSAN which is file based, so that might have something to do with it. It also works over ethernet as well. I have not tried it on volume level as it's not how it's setup over here.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:29:57 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Have you tried making a folder and pointing the SAN Location to that instead of the whole volume?"

There are plenty of folders on the volume. All is greyed out. This is a volume-based SAN using Command Soft's FibreJet. Fibre Channel protocol. FWIW - all of the volumes mount with a hard drive icon, not a network icon (globe).

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Andrew Richards
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 8:12:51 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "We use metaSAN which is file based, so that might have something to do with it. It also works over ethernet as well. I have not tried it on volume level as it's not how it's setup over here."

I've been trying to get a definitive answer on this, and have yet do do so. From what I can tell, FCPX is discriminating by filesystem. metaSAN is not its own filesystem like Xsan, but rather a shared HFS+.

One thing is for sure, SAN Locations are very poorly documented, especially in terms of technical requirements.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 8:16:38 pm

[Andrew Richards] "but rather a shared HFS+."

It gets weirder, our storage is actually NTFS.

It's a windows "all in one" box with CPU/storage served out via fibre in a chassis.

metaSAN handles all the translation.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Andrew Richards
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 8:20:54 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "It gets weirder, our storage is actually NTFS. "

Well damn, now I haven't even got a hypothesis.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index

Tony Sarafoski
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:24:56 am

Kevin, the problem is this, when you've been editing for many years (personally 25 till date), one thinks you can just jump from software to software because there somewhat similar. That's the mindset I had when I first tried X. The fact is I never thought I'd need to purchase training to guid me through, but to my surprise I did.

After attempting to understand X in the first week, I went ahead and purchased Larry Jordan's training, and soon after Ripple Training. I can't tell you how important it is, even as an experienced editor that you invest in some training.

Even so, I spent 9 months trying to use FCPX like FCP 7. I used compound clips as sequences, never once used projects, and found myself copy/pasting between compounds to build my timeline. Like I said, I did this for the first 9 months till I forced myself to embrace Events, Keyword Collections, skimming & started using projects as they were intended. I can't begin to tell you how much "FASTER" I'm building my timeline this way.

I think the biggest problem is trying to forcefully use X like 7, which I for one can vouch for. If you can only find it in yourself to allow for change, I think you'll be back on these forums sharing your positivity towards X.

I've spent many hours reading forums, and at times participating in questions, but the one question that keeps popping up by a lot professionals is workflow. Workflow can be hard to explain, only because individuals like to do it "their" way.

I'm no accredited FCPX trainer and wish I had the time to share my experiences and workflow. So wish this forum had a live chat option like Skype :-)



Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 3:42:53 am

Tony,

Couldn't agree with you more.

I've been here for nearly a year trying to say the same thing.

If you expect X to be "like 7 but a bit different" you're in for a whole lot of struggle and even anger.

Only when you actually stop trying to make it work like you're conditioned to expecting - and start to understand how it actually functions, can you start to see the value of the new suite of ideas.

Then things really start to cook.

Welcome aboard.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

Tony Sarafoski
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 4:03:58 am

You mean FRY....! To give you an idea, I just started a project about 15min ago, 4x 1hr HDV tapes which need to be skimmed/trimmed, some shots need 50% slow-mo, fade in/outs and music added. I'm just about done :-))))) GOD BLESS THIS MAGNETIC TIMELINE (Most of the time that is LOL..)



Return to posts index

Tony Sarafoski
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 4:07:28 am

Bill is there a way of maybe organising a video conference gathering and maybe once or twice a moth have a professional get together throwing workflow's or workarounds at each other?

When can post video podcasts here :-)))

just a suggestion I guess ;-)



Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:36:35 pm

Tony,

Most of the "here's how this works" stuff takes place next door in the FCP-X Techniques forum.

This space is largely for arm wrestling, rambling screeds and low grade, seldom serious character asssasination.

It's quite fun, and sometimes something actually useful gets posted - but this is not so much a "practical" learning space.

It's more akin to Speakers corner in Hyde park in london - where on any given day - anyone can stand up and spout anything - and the kudos to brickbats ratio is directly proportional to the makeup of the crowd present at that moment in time.

If you want to start threads in the Techniqus post and have people weigh in on how they arrange their workflow - feel free.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:52:14 pm

[Bill Davis] "This space is largely for arm wrestling"

It's sort of the world wresting federation of NLEs forum . . . and then we fight over which moves should be illegal.



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:58:48 pm

[Craig Seeman] "It's sort of the world wresting federation of NLEs forum . . . and then we fight over which moves should be illegal."







Return to posts index

Tony Sarafoski
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:13:50 am

Jeremy, the Dumb and Dumber (1994) clip is absolutely GOLD.

[Bill Davis] Most of the "here's how this works" stuff takes place next door in the FCP-X Techniques forum.

Totally understand, however wasn't the original post about "how to or how do"...?

[Kevin Zimmerman] "My question is pretty simple, and it's intended for editors who are working with FCPX in a professional work environment, for paying clients.

How do you deal with the one edit per project architecture of FCPX? I think there are many, many issues to spiral out of control over with FCPX, but this framework that Apple is created — where a project IS a single timeline, and therefore IS a single cut — baffles me. And I have no idea how I would work around it.

The idea that, with clients in the room asking to see a subtle difference between two versions of an edit ("here's one that starts with the wide, here's one that starts with a medium," that kind of thing), I need to actually click between different PROJECTS is just... well, I find it laughably useless."

Makes me laugh how sidetracked this post has become.

Anyway since Kevin hasn't been back to ask further questions, I think I'll just sit back and enjoy where this post has headed :-)

All the best to all.



Return to posts index

Jason Porthouse
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 27, 2012 at 9:44:19 am

[Bill Davis] "This space is largely for arm wrestling, rambling screeds and low grade, seldom serious character asssasination."

Can we have this as a subtitle for this forum please mods? It sums us up soooo well ;-)

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.

*the artist formally known as Jaymags*


Return to posts index

John Fromstein
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:25:23 pm

I've used the duplicate project command and worked alternatives in on the duplicate. then just switch between them. I find this to be pretty close to using alternative sequences in FCP 7. you still need to switch between them. yes, in FCP 7 you could actually put them on the same timeline, but I find that having two options on the same timeline is kind of sloppy organizationally anyway (though this can be done in FCP X too). So I guess I see using alternate sequences in FCP 7 is similar to using alternate "projects" in FCP X.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: A Question for Working Professional Editors Using FCPX.
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:46:45 pm

Just to be clear, in the Project Library all the alternates are there.
If you're loading them in to the timeline and using the arrow forward/back function, that's awkward and probably unnecessary.
I just go to the Client folder in the Project Library and play the different sequence. If the client wants to go forward with one of them, that's the one I load.



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]