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Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers

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Walter Soyka
Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:37:52 am

We've all been saying for months that FCPX would be a 1.0 product, but it really is a lot like FCP 1.0.

When FCP was first released, many of use here were cutting on Avid or Media 100. (DRW, I'll throw a shout-out to Edit* for you.) FCP was intriguing -- a new and more open platform, full of potential -- but arguably not ready for professional use. It took a few releases and a few years, but ultimately Apple built a great ecosystem around FCP, and it earned its "Pro" designation.

Apple has repeated at least part of that formula. They've released a new and more open platform, full of potential -- but arguably not ready for professional use.

Apple has a really promising architecture for FCPX -- 64-bit, linear floating point color space and color management, Grand Central and OpenCL, pervasive metadata -- but at the same time, their rough treatment of Shake, Color, XServe, and Final Cut Server doesn't inspire confidence that they're focused on professionals' needs.

The big problem is this: they've broken trust with the users making their livings with this software. As Chris Walsh said in another thread here [link], Apple has "burned through some of trust and goodwill it had built over FC 1-7, for no apparent reason."

Apple needs to do something to reassure users that their investment in the FCP platform is still relevant -- or they need to make it clear that there are certain groups of of FCP users that are no longer being targeted.

A roadmap on the "missing" features would go a long way. Are there plans to offer third-party hardware support? Interchange with other apps? Collaborative support for multi-seat facilities? The ability to open old project files?

Can Apple repeat the rest of the FCP formula, and add back in the features we need? Should we go back (from whence we came) to Avid? Is the Premiere Pro development team ready for the onslaught of feature requests they're about to get from defecting FCP users?

FCPX is out now, but we still really don't know any more about Apple's plans for the future of Final Cut than we did after the Supermeet at NAB.

Stated simply, Apple is not behaving in a very trustworthy or predictable manner in the post-production space, and it's very unsettling for those us using their tools.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Greg Burke
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:48:48 am

You speak the truth...however its 2011 and things have changed just because FCP 1 had just as many problems back in 1999 doesnt make it okay to have the same addressing issues in 2011 (meaning its not a professional tool)


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Walter Soyka
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:53:13 am

Oh, I'm not saying it's OK -- I'm saying that while Apple has a very forward-looking, shiny new NLE, they may have set themselves back a decade in terms of their reputation and standing in the industry.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:52:48 am

I remember 1999. By v.1.25 FCP was a real thing.


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Jamie Franklin
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:01:42 am

Let's hope the updates come quick and come at an affordable price. Let's also hope that some of the updates which are standard in an NLE come free.

I just wish Apple would communicate better as to when and what and if there will be a cost.


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Paul Nordin
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:06:55 am

>> Stated simply, Apple is not behaving in a very trustworthy or predictable manner in the post-production space, and it's very unsettling for those us using their...

Personally, I think Apple is behaving in a predictable manner. IF you were naive enough not to see the writing on the wall for Apple Color when the upadates were so feeble, and didn't jump immediately to the far superior Davinci Recolve, hoping that surely Apple will meet the challenge, you just got burned badly.

Same thing for FCS3. Why should we believe there is a hidden message in Apple's marketing plan, or that they are holding back a master plan that will fulfill all our needs? They have had as much time as they want to build this new version. It addresses the pro-am market. Not those who make a living with it. And if you have Color based grading suites, you just got left out in the dark. Time to spend a lot of money.

It makes perfect sense to me for Apple to let Adobe and Avid move into the high-end pro market. Those companies have a large support infrastructure and are aggressively building capabilities that keep pace with the escalating technology turn-over in the high-end of digital cinema.

Apple can give Pro lip service to NLEs as they did with Soundtrack Pro. But what they really do is sell the hardware.

At least that's how I read what they have delivered, and marketed, and the functionality they targeted to release in v1.0. All their conscious choice.

_______________________
El Mundo Bueno Studios
Film * Audio
http://www.EMBstudios.com
Emeryville, CA
_______________________


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Walter Soyka
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:28:52 am

[Paul Nordin] "IF you were naive enough not to see the writing on the wall for Apple Color when the upadates were so feeble, and didn't jump immediately to the far superior Davinci Recolve, hoping that surely Apple will meet the challenge, you just got burned badly."

Well, I jumped to Resolve the week it was released, as did many other Color users.


[Paul Nordin] "Why should we believe there is a hidden message in Apple's marketing plan, or that they are holding back a master plan that will fulfill all our needs?"

Look at what FCPX does under the hood: OpenCL. A linear, floating point color space. Color management. Pervasive metadata. These are real, legitimate "professional" features -- not features aimed at the iMovie/YouTube crowd.

The engine that FCPX is built on is an absolute marvel, but unfortunately it ends there.

Users here are simply asking for feature parity with the old version -- pre-"upgrade." I am really struggling to think of another example of an application that has removed so much functionality in a so-called upgrade.

I agree with you that Apple isn't showing us anything at the moment to indicate that there will be more than this -- in fact, that's what I'm identifying as the problem here. Apple has created more FUD around Final Cut themselves than any of their competitors could have ever hoped to.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Paul Nordin
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:21:54 am

You are probably right at least I hope so. But this has to be the all time worst, most mis-handled new product release in, well, as far as I care to think back on.

_______________________
El Mundo Bueno Studios
Film * Audio
http://www.EMBstudios.com
Emeryville, CA
_______________________


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Matt Callac
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:11:19 am

[Walter Soyka] "
Users here are simply asking for feature parity with the old version -- pre-"upgrade." I am really struggling to think of another example of an application that has removed so much functionality in a so-called upgrade."


I thought they weren't calling it an up-grade. And since there's no upgrade pricing, and it can live alongside FCP 7, I wouldn't think it's an upgrade.

It's sort of like in Hollywood when they take a Film franchise and totally start it over. Aren't they doing that with Spiderman, or something. It's like hitting the reset button. So Apple's doing that...but with their editing software.

-mattyc


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Matt Callac
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:13:32 am

[Walter Soyka] "The big problem is this: they've broken trust with the users making their livings with this software. As Chris Walsh said in another thread here [link], Apple has "burned through some of trust and goodwill it had built over FC 1-7, for no apparent reason."

Apple needs to do something to reassure users that their investment in the FCP platform is still relevant -- or they need to make it clear that there are certain groups of of FCP users that are no longer being targete"


Yeah, It worries me that FCS 3 is no longer available at all.

-mattyc


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:16:47 am

[Walter Soyka] "The big problem is this: they've broken trust with the users making their livings with this software. As Chris Walsh said in another thread here [link], Apple has "burned through some of trust and goodwill it had built over FC 1-7, for no apparent reason."

Apple needs to do something to reassure users that their investment in the FCP platform is still relevant -- or they need to make it clear that there are certain groups of of FCP users that are no longer being targeted.

A roadmap on the "missing" features would go a long way. Are there plans to offer third-party hardware support? Interchange with other apps? Collaborative support for multi-seat facilities? The ability to open old project files?"


What you've written above Walter is the issue. All of the bullshit about the features would be inconsequential if Apple mapped out their game plan. But they haven't done that and have given no indication they see a any need to do so. Apple is completely out of touch.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Matt Callac
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:18:06 am

[David Roth Weiss] "What you've written above Walter is the issue. All of the bullshit about the features would be inconsequential if Apple mapped out their game plan. But they haven't done that and have given no indication they see a any need to do so. Apple is completely out of touch."

I'd be very surprised if they responded to all of the complaints at all.

-mattyc


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:50:51 am

[David Roth Weiss] "All of the bullshit about the features would be inconsequential if Apple mapped out their game plan. But they haven't done that and have given no indication they see a any need to do so. Apple is completely out of touch."

Bulls eye David!

How come i have started agreeing with you so much?

I played around with the new FCP X for quite a bit today and I like what i saw. But the real problem is the way Apple has handled this whole situation. Firstly no proper release, secondly they took FCS 3 out of the stores and lastly Apple is not making their plans clear (as far as FCP is concerned).

It is utter choas at this forum right now. I mean i was a skeptic from the start but even i did not expect such backlash. But again, this mostly because of Apple's silence & not FCP X's features

Sohrab

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:02:54 am

[Sohrab Sandhu] "the real problem is the way Apple has handled this whole situation. Firstly no proper release, secondly they took FCS 3 out of the stores and lastly Apple is not making their plans clear (as far as FCP is concerned).
"


They've handled this situation like amateurs. They've created software for amateurs. And, they're clearly treating their customers like amateurs. Is it any wonder that some people are not happy?


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Welcome back to 1999, and still more questions than answers
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:12:45 am

[Walter Soyka] "The big problem is this: they've broken trust with the users making their livings with this software. As Chris Walsh said in another thread here [link], Apple has "burned through some of trust and goodwill it had built over FC 1-7, for no apparent reason."

Apple needs to do something to reassure users that their investment in the FCP platform is still relevant -- or they need to make it clear that there are certain groups of of FCP users that are no longer being targeted.

A roadmap on the "missing" features would go a long way. Are there plans to offer third-party hardware support? Interchange with other apps? Collaborative support for multi-seat facilities? The ability to open old project files?"


I've said this in other threads, but putting FCS3 back on the shelves would go a long way towards regaining some of this trust. I see no reason to force everyone to use FCP X. To me this is the proverbial straw.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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