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I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?

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Paz Derien
I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 8:09:35 pm

Hi, I just started a new job. In my previous job, we'd been using FCP and we just stuck with FCP 7. Now, at my new job, I am responsible for choosing the editing software, and I've learned today that FCP 7 is REALLY REALLY REALLY not available REALLY. I mean, I could buy it on ebay, I know. But I'm thinking, this is the occasion for me to make the switch. I am tired of Apple's arrogance and I don't want to adapt to FCPX, although I could be convinced I suppose. So, my question. Should I do adobe premiere pro 5 and then upgrade to 6 when it comes out? Should I do avid media composer? The way I see it, whether I do FCPX, avid, or Premiere, I will be learning a new program.

Thoughts are welcome. thanks, PD


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Andrew Richards
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 8:34:15 pm

What is the nature of the work your new shop does? Tell us more.

Best,
Andy


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Daniel Frome
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 8:36:02 pm

Depends what kind of video you do. This is only my personal opinion, and please treat it as such:

- If you do a lot of ad/agency type of work, then a fast-turnaround is often priority, with less thought given to media management, then Premiere CS5/6 will be a good option. It's closest to your existing FCP7 software in terms of how it works.

- if you do more content driven work, such as TV shows, or other material that doesn't require enormous amounts of FX (or especially larger projects), then Avid is your best option. It has editing/trim tools that allow you to make editorial decisions faster and easier.

I don't know if Adobe still has their FCP promotion on, but Avid will give you Symphony for $999 since you have FCP7.

I think you need to tell us more about the type of content you product and that will determine which is the best choice.


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Garrett Gibbons
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 8:45:04 pm

I'm still primarily using FCP 7 because there's nothing great right now.

Premiere on Mac is highly unstable (crashes very often for many people). Premiere CS6 might be better in terms of stability, but I've been saying that since before CS3. Premiere really is too unstable on Mac to use.

FCP X isn't really ready for professional workflows in my opinion. Avid is an outdated and overpriced solution but it is probably the best thing available right now if you can afford it.

Edius is awesome (currently Windows-only) and my favorite NLE right now, but I'm not going to work in Windows unless I have to.

http://www.garrettgibbons.com


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Paz Derien
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:26:28 pm

Thanks for your replies. I don't have FCP7 anymore, it's at my old job. My work, mostly, is making short educational videos with some color correction and some graphics, watermarks, etc. I just downloaded Avid Media Composer free trial, perhaps that will blow my mind. On some gut level I trust Avid as a brand way over Premiere, but who knows anymore. Thanks again, Paz


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Garrett Gibbons
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:54:07 pm

Have you checked to see if Apple's back stock of FCP 7 is exhausted? They've been selling it as a phone order-only release until recently:

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/09/01/final-cut-studio-back-on-sale-final-cut-pro-...

http://www.garrettgibbons.com


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nick ring
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 17, 2012 at 10:28:34 am

My work, mostly, is making short educational videos with some color correction and some graphics, watermarks, etc.

Since you're posting in this forum, I figure I should reply with consider FCPX. You work as described seems to be what FCPX is designed for: quick, short edits, quick CC, etc. Throw in Motion for $50 and you can do graphics that slide into FCPX easily (no round-tripping yet, unfortunately).

Are you the main editor or are you overseeing other seats as well? Do you need to collaborate with other editors on the same project? Do you send out to others for color, audio, etc. or is everything done in house?

Who is responsible for training? If it's just for you, the tutorials by Larry Jordan and Ripple Training are quite good and give a quick jump start.

-nick


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Bobby Mosca
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:35:45 pm

As far as crashes go, it really does depend on what you're working off of, because everyone has different experiences. CS5.5 has been fine for me, where FCPX barely opens anymore. It's like working on Windows all over again. As the question goes: FCPX or Not? I vote definitely not.

Adobe's creative suite is a great value and I've been happy with it. As said above, depends on what you're doing. Test drive the free trials.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:28:00 pm

I don't find PPro on the Mac to be unstable. Sometimes Dynamic Link gets wonky on app startup, but an app restart always seems to fix that. Make sure you have lots of RAM.

PPro will be an easy transition from FCP. You can always use the other tools in the Suite, regardless of which NLE you end up using. So it's not a wasted investment in time or money.

Daniel had good thoughts above, I'd add that if your work isn't ((some catch-all for stuff that's mostly cuts n' dissolves)), you should get the demo of Smoke 2013 that comes out in June.... big BIG news there.

So I'd suggest if your version of FCP isn't coming with you from the old job to get the new job to buy Production Suite, and see what transpires over the next several months.

"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
CMX-Quantel-Avid-FCP-Premiere-3D-AFX-Crayola
"What a long strange trip it's been...."


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Garrett Gibbons
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:36:42 pm

I'm glad that PPro is stable for you. You're the first I've heard of that hasn't complained about the app crashing several times per hour. I have 4 GB RAM per core on a 4-core machine and I doubt that lack of RAM is the problem for most users. It's gotten slightly more stable but is still bad for me.

My experience shows that Dynamic Link is an awesome, amazing idea that basically doesn't work unless you're doing very simple operations.

Smoke looks amazing. At $3500 it's also in a different market.

http://www.garrettgibbons.com


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Bob Woodhead
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:46:52 pm

My experience shows that Dynamic Link is an awesome, amazing idea that basically doesn't work unless you're doing very simple operations.


ummmm...... huh? Maybe I was doing something wrong, as it's worked quite well sending video off to After Effects for complex layering & FX, then remaining linked in the PPro timeline for 1-click editing in AFX.

Of course, you almost always need to render a preview to get any usable performance in PPro from the resulting linked comp - maybe that's what you're referring to? But you can't expect CPU magic to happen just because it's a DL asset.

"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
CMX-Quantel-Avid-FCP-Premiere-3D-AFX-Crayola
"What a long strange trip it's been...."


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Garrett Gibbons
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:56:10 pm

What happens if you try to iterate a file project name (for automatic backup, etc...) in AE? It kills the Dynamic Link connection. Also, a small tweak in AE kills the PP preview as well.

If you have a few shots in a PP sequence that you need to tweak in AE, DL can work great. If you have a few basic changes to make to every shot in a sequence, DL isn't bad. If you're doing serious compositing and nesting of comps within AE, the advantages and stability quickly fall out.

http://www.garrettgibbons.com


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Bob Woodhead
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 10:13:52 pm

I'm a big fan of filename incrementing in AE, so in DL work, I simply "Save a Copy" and increment that. As for PPro previews, you'd need to render out a new version anyway from AE if you weren't using DL.

I'm not saying DL is perfect, but it's not quite bash-worthy, either. ;)


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 11:23:37 pm

I increment the hell out of my AE project files too, i never really trust the auto-save, although I find incrementing messes with that too - can you speak a little more to the impact on dynamic link? I haven't done a single project in anger with prpro dynamic linking to AE.

my methodology is to picture lock in FCP and use the FPC2AE script to take a collapsed V1 cut via xml to after effects - in a way I don't really care about dynamic link, I think its messy methodology that opens the door to nightmare revsions of the cut and music choices very late in the game - I rather like to feel the door slam on the editing environment where both I and the client can hear it.

I really care about PPro 6 for the fact that it has editing trim tools that meet and well exceed FCP7 in ways I understand, scrubbable bins, snazzy environment I that I get - the things that bug me are weird stuff like not being able to option up arrow clips or mute clips with the equivalent of control B in ver.6 - is that still true? also the marker thing is nuts. I can't believe markers are only in prelude. that's a crazy oversight.

Also the track assignment behaviour. that's all small beer though.

For my money, if this thing can stand stably on its own two feet in mid summer, with adobe palpably behind it, then I say PPro6 is unequivocally FCP8 with all the implications that follow.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Frank Gothmann
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 17, 2012 at 12:09:34 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "also the marker thing is nuts. I can't believe markers are only in prelude. that's a crazy oversight."

You can add markers without problems directly within PP. In fact, they even changed the keyboard shortcut to "m".

------
"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


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Michael Hancock
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 17, 2012 at 12:12:57 am

Are the markers applied to the clips in the sequence, or the sequence itself (across the top, ala CS5.5). If you apply a clip marker can you add notes to it (I can't add notes to clip markers in 5.5 unless I'm just doing it wrong). If it's just sequence markers, do they ripple with the timeline?

Premiere markers have a long way to go from 5.5. I'm hoping CS6 has addressed some of these issues.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Frank Gothmann
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 17, 2012 at 12:37:14 am

You can add markers to a sequence (ie across the top) as well as clips themselves. Yes, you can add comments. Markers are also part of a clips metadata so when you open that clip in a new project that marker will follow. Don't know wether they ripple.

------
"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


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Michael Hancock
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 17, 2012 at 12:43:58 am

You can add comments to the clip markers when the clips are in the sequence in CS6, or 5.5, or both?

I can't add any comments to the clip markers in my sequence in 5.5. I can to sequence markers - like FCP, you add a marker then hit the add marker shortcut agani and dialogue box pops up. When I add a clip marker I can't get a dialogue box to pop up. It just sits on the clip and is pretty useless. This would be great if it's fixed in CS6. Even better if I'm just holding it wrong in 5.5!

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Kevin Monahan
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 17, 2012 at 5:06:31 pm

[Garrett Gibbons] "I'm glad that PPro is stable for you. You're the first I've heard of that hasn't complained about the app crashing several times per hour. I have 4 GB RAM per core on a 4-core machine and I doubt that lack of RAM is the problem for most users. It's gotten slightly more stable but is still bad for me."

Crashing several times per hour? You've heard that from other users too? We aren't hearing that from our users at all. 4GB RAM with a Premiere Pro system is the bare minimum. You simply need a more modern computer system to run the program smoothly.

Kevin Monahan
Sr. Content and Community Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Garrett Gibbons
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 17, 2012 at 6:52:04 pm

Read what I wrote again, more carefully: 4 GB per core on an 4-core system. 16 GB RAM isn't the bare minimum for Premiere. Adobe recommends 2 GB per core.

And yes, I've yet to have a face-to-face conversation with an editor who uses Premiere on the Mac and doesn't report incessant crashing. The Windows releases have been more stable but the app has a strong stigma of being a crashaholic. I can give you personal cell numbers and email addresses if you want to follow up with other editors. In LA it's a joke app with the studios. Only small-job editors will touch it because of its instability. Plenty of people (me included) want it to become more of a viable option for the post-production pipeline, but it's generally not taken seriously in the studio environment.

http://www.garrettgibbons.com


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Robert Brown
Re: I'm at the editing software crossroads. Advice?
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:53:27 pm

I'm doing my first serious MC job and I'm liking it. I'm curious about PPro but very underwhelmed by 5.5. Adobe has a lot to prove we'll see how they do. But you can't go wrong with MC.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


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