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This also changes everything!!!

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Steve Connor
This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 3:40:09 pm

http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/blackmagic-cinema-camera-lets-t...

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Lance Bachelder
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 3:43:17 pm

I just watched those! Is this real or a hoax? This would really be game changing...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 3:43:53 pm

Real!

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Lance Bachelder
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 3:45:29 pm

whoops - thanks for the link - I'd seen another one just a few minutes ago with just the clips - no pics of the actual rig. This is crazy! Crazy good...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 3:48:42 pm

http://johnbrawley.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/4067024.jpg

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:13:31 pm

Reality is melting a little isn't it?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:17:51 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Reality is melting a little isn't it?"

I am genuinely a little dizzy

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Michael Hancock
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:18:39 pm

Page is up at Blackmagic.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Jason Jenkins
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:24:57 pm

[Michael Hancock] "Page is up at Blackmagic.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/"


Page is loading slowly. Methinks page is getting slammed.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:44:50 pm

You can add metadata to shots that can be read in FCPX

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Tim Wilson
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:50:18 pm

And it includes Resolve and Ultrascope!

This really is nuts.


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Bret Williams
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 5:06:02 pm

How long I wonder until BlackMagic reveals it's killer editing app with Ultrascope and Resolve built in? :) Are these guys making money? Getting ready to go IPO? It is nuts. But I like it.


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Jim Giberti
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 5:24:31 pm

I don't say these kind of things, but I do know - that's my new camera....cameras


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Lance Bachelder
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:07:44 am

Yeah me too! Got to actually touch it at the BMD mega-booth - looks bizarre but so simple and smart. They have a cool little two handed bracket for like $299 extra - this camera has to have every other camera manufacturer scratching their heads in a bit of a panic including Red - 2.5k is the new 6k Jannard!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Karsten Fischer
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 9:50:35 pm

You did notice their emphasis on Resolve's editing features, did you?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 2:45:54 am

I wish BMD all the best, but I think this sums up the most of my concerns.

The battery was a big one for me.

The ergonomics were second.

Im not real keen on shooting (and then posting, and then...archiving) 120MB/sec raw, and I know it shoots compressed, but...

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/mcurtis/story/blackmagic_designs_cin...

There's a bunch of smart technology of there, and BMD seems like a really smart bunch.

I hope the pictures from the finished product prove that it's a contender.


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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 7:55:21 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "The battery was a big one for me."

Every other serious camera out there uses external batteries, why are people thinking this would be any different? I'm seeing the internal battery as a bonus, but assuming external power on whatever rig we put it on

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 12:52:28 pm

[Steve Connor] "Every other serious camera out there uses external batteries, why are people thinking this would be any different? I'm seeing the internal battery as a bonus, but assuming external power on whatever rig we put it on"

Every camera we have, the batteries are part of the camera. They are secured directly to, and in the case of DSLRs, inside the camera.

They are easily swappable and if a battery fails, you don't have to replace the whole camera.

Also, in a world of ergonomically challenged cameras, this seems rather awkward.

Again, if it makes pretty pictures, I'll listen, but evrything else surrounding this camera seems rather impractical from a shooting standpoint.

Mr Brawley, care to comment on the ergonomics? How do you hold those handles and focus at the same time?

If not using the handles, how do you hold this thing out in front of you to look at the cell phone screen, and focus?

Did you rig this on anything?

Jeremy


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David Cherniack
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 5:32:12 pm

Wow. I feel my froth rising.

I can't get the Blackmagic page up. Slammed? That's an undrstatement.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 5:33:23 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Reality is melting a little isn't it?"

I'm not sure about melting, but it is definitely fracturing in to tiny little bits.


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David Lawrence
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 6:37:41 pm

[Steve Connor] "Real!"

Not until it ships! :p

But seriously, if they pull this off in July I will jump for joy. I was so sad when the cheap, fixed lens Scarlet turned to vapor. This actually looks way better. Go BMD!

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Tim Wilson
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 6:52:44 pm

[David Lawrence] " if they pull this off in July I will jump for joy."

You know what amazes me? It also includes the full version of Resolve 9 and UltraScope! It's like they said "Buy Resolve and Ultrascope, and we'll throw in this nifty camera for only $1300!"

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 6:56:41 pm

So when BMD buy Avid you'll probably get a free copy of Symphony with the S35 version

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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David Lawrence
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 6:59:34 pm

[Tim Wilson] "You know what amazes me? It also includes the full version of Resolve 9 and UltraScope! It's like they said "Buy Resolve and Ultrascope, and we'll throw in this nifty camera for only $1300!""

I know, wild, isn't it?! Would love to be a fly on the wall at RED today.

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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 7:12:28 pm

[David Lawrence] "I know, wild, isn't it?! Would love to be a fly on the wall at RED today.
"


Looks like a discussion on the subject was "closed" on their forum. The cries of "it's not 4K" are already starting

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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David Lawrence
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 7:24:18 pm

[Steve Connor] "Looks like a discussion on the subject was "closed" on their forum. The cries of "it's not 4K" are already starting"

LOL, why am I not surprised by that ;)

[Jim Giberti] "I know what you mean David, I thought RED blew it with that and their mission.

BM could literally steal that from them."


Totally agree, Jim. Really seems like RED dropped the ball on the <$5K segment of the market. Guess DSLRs really drank their milkshake.

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Tim Wilson
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 7:28:46 pm

[Steve Connor] "Looks like a discussion on the subject was "closed" on their forum. "

On-topic bastards. What are they thinking? This forum would have ceased existence in September if we tried that nonsense.

:-)

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 7:36:57 pm

[Steve Connor] "Looks like a discussion on the subject was "closed" on their forum."

Seriously? Sheesh.

Among other things (passion being one of them), I heard the Red announcements started with a line that said something like, red was the color of war.

Yuck.

In understand that there's competition out there, but the testosterone contests are boring.


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Chris Harlan
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 7:05:57 pm

[Tim Wilson] "[David Lawrence] " if they pull this off in July I will jump for joy."

You know what amazes me? It also includes the full version of Resolve 9 and UltraScope! It's like they said "Buy Resolve and Ultrascope, and we'll throw in this nifty camera for only $1300!"
"


I know! Right! Wow, yes?!


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Jim Giberti
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 6:59:24 pm

[David Lawrence] " I was so sad when the cheap, fixed lens Scarlet turned to vapor. This actually looks way better. Go BMD!"

I know what you mean David, I thought RED blew it with that and their mission.

BM could literally steal that from them.

I thought/think Canon's new 1D-C is an absurdly priced and mis-targeted development. $15k for a very limited film making tool.

The current obsession with 4k is just that.
It makes no sense for 99% of the pro deliverable work being produced today and in the foreseeable future.
Over sampled, 1080p, at 4:4:4: Pro Res able to edit and finish immediately in FCP or PP is simply brilliant.

Notice BMs focus on FCPX in their materials too.
I think Apple is going where they need to with X and this type of combination (with free Resolve) is going to make shooting and producing a lot more fun late summer.


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Jason Jenkins
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 7:05:10 pm

[Jim Giberti] "I think Apple is going where they need to with X and this type of combination (with free Resolve) is going to make shooting and producing a lot more fun late summer."

That's really what it comes down to, doesn't it? We are just a bunch of kids who want to play with fun toys! Oh, and get paid while we play.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Hector berrebi
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 12:54:01 pm

[Jim Giberti] "Over sampled, 1080p, at 4:4:4: Pro Res able to edit and finish immediately in FCP or PP is simply brilliant.
"


well... only PR 422 HQ actually :)

the thing that most people sort of miss on this camera is the sensor
its a rather small micro 4/3
and it currently takes cannon EF lenses (and Zeiss ZF which is practically the same but more expensive)

these lenses are made for larger sensors... resulting in a world of crop factors, i'd say X2 and up

and not to be a RED advocate. but RAW DNG is not necessarily a good choice. having a well written, intelligent compression like R3D, and a talented team that keeps developing the compression makes a difference

RAW DNG... at 2.5 K is about 300MBs... (if i'm not all wrong about it)

i was told by BM guys that it will get over-cranking for slomo, but not on DNG, on PR and DNX

it looks interesting... but still needs much testing

Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting


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Chris Kenny
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 1:33:44 pm

[Hector berrebi] "RAW DNG... at 2.5 K is about 300MBs... (if i'm not all wrong about it)"

2432 * 1366 pixels * 12 bits = 39865344 bits per frame, or 4.98 MB per frame (decimal megabytes). The tech specs page confirms this number. That's 120 MB/s @ 24p. High, but significantly more manageable than 300 MB/s.

I do always wonder why these systems don't at least use mathematically lossless compression, which would get files ~40% smaller with no impact on the data being recorded. The CinemaDNG spec says it supports internal lossless compression. Maybe there's not enough onboard processing power?

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Jim Giberti
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 4:46:06 pm

[Hector berrebi] "the thing that most people sort of miss on this camera is the sensor
"


I think the sensor size and lens crop is probably the concern of most people so far.

But if they can bring along 60p pro res, I'm already sold.


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Intel SSD
on Apr 16, 2012 at 6:42:57 pm

Perhaps Intel's just announced lower cost 330 series SSD will be a nice complement to this.

Best,
Andy


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 6:48:36 pm

Oh wow... Just one question: How can I use this with a Windows machine? Unless it has a e-sata model or something.


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Shawn Miller
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 7:14:21 pm

[Tero Ahlfors] "How can I use this with a Windows machine?"

SSD to USB adapter or BlackMagic Design's HyperDeck Studio.

Shawn



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Morten Ranmar
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 8:57:54 pm

Just a shame the sensor is actually smaller than four-thirds. This makes most Canon lenses unusable...

- No Parking Production -

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Shawn Miller
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 6:42:59 am

[Morten Ranmar] "Just a shame the sensor is actually smaller than four-thirds."

By a few millimeters, yes (17.8x10 vs 15.6x8.8) but still larger than
Super 16. Honestly, I think the ability to shoot in CinemaDNG is a much bigger deal than the sensor size. But that's just my opinion. :-)

[Morten Ranmar] " This makes most Canon lenses unusable..."

Why is that? A smaller sensor means that more lenses will cover it not fewer... plus, the camera comes with a choice of EF or F-Mount.

Shawn



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Morten Ranmar
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 7:13:52 am

A smaller sensor size limits the choices of wide angles.

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Shawn Miller
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 8:04:40 am

[Morten Ranmar] "A smaller sensor size limits the choices of wide angles."

Sorry, I don't follow. How does a smaller sensor limit the choices for wide angle lenses? A 14mm lens designed for FF (stills) or S35 or even MFT will still cover a smaller sensor or film format... the FOV will be more narrow, but it will still work. Am I missing something?

Shawn



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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 8:13:19 am

I think he's talking about the magnification factor, the lens will still work it just won't be that wide.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Chris Kenny
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 1:39:45 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Sorry, I don't follow. How does a smaller sensor limit the choices for wide angle lenses? A 14mm lens designed for FF (stills) or S35 or even MFT will still cover a smaller sensor or film format... the FOV will be more narrow, but it will still work. Am I missing something? "

It with cover, yeah, but as you say FoV will be more narrow. It's going to be hard to get very wide on this camera. Although Tokina makes as well-reviewed 11-16 2.8 zoom for APS-C that might help. (Canon makes a 10-22 for APS-C, but it's f/3.5-4.5, too slow in my opinion.)

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Martyn Greswolde
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 2:06:46 pm

I think the crop factor will be more like 2.3-2.5x which is a real issue. my 16-35 will suddenly be 37mm on the wide end, no good really. also, the lack of DOF will be a big issue too.

Shame, I was really excited about this camera as I read the webpage but was confused why there was no mention of sensor size until i got the the specs page, now I know why :-(

Greswolde Photography
http://www.greswolde.com

I know little but I learn quickly!


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Shawn Miller
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 2:56:16 pm

[Steve Connor] "I think he's talking about the magnification factor, the lens will still work it just won't be that wide."

[Chris Kenny] "It's going to be hard to get very wide on this camera."

Yep, I believe I pointed this out. FOV will be more narrow... but I think this is different from saying that there will be fewer choices of wide angle lenses for this camera.

[Martyn Greswolde] "I think the crop factor will be more like 2.3-2.5x which is a real issue."

Compared to a full frame stills sensor, yes. Compared to a Cinema 35 sized movie sensor, probably more like 1.20:1.

[Martyn Greswolde] "my 16-35 will suddenly be 37mm on the wide end"

No, the focal length doesn't change at all, the characteristics of the lens will remain the same. Smaller sensors don't magnify the picture, they resolve (or crop) a smaller portion of the image.

[Martyn Greswolde] "also, the lack of DOF will be a big issue too"

To match the DOF of a larger sensor at a given distance, you adjust the apeture. In this case, it should be 1/4 stop up (or so).

Did anyone feel that Black Swan lacked for wide shots or shallow DOF? If not, using a sensor that's larger than Super 16 shouldn't be an issue.

FWIW, this issue has been discussed at length on dvxuser.net. Below are links to two threads that may be of interest.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?226973-Wide-angle-reality-check

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?227826-Relative-Focal-Length-Angle...

Shawn



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Martyn Greswolde
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:08:04 pm

To obtain the same DOF on a 1.3 APS-H sensor as you get from a full frame sensor you need to shoot a full stop wider. This is correct for still's so I cant imagine they would be any different for video.

Greswolde Photography
http://www.greswolde.com

I know little but I learn quickly!


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Shawn Miller
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:36:43 pm

[Martyn Greswolde] "To obtain the same DOF on a 1.3 APS-H sensor as you get from a full frame sensor you need to shoot a full stop wider."

Yes, comparing APS-H to Full Frame stills. Comparing Academy 35 (22x16) to Micro Four Thirds (17.8x10) it's about a 1/4 stop. The BM sensor, being roughly the same size as the AF100 @16x9 should be pretty close DOF wise. At least, that's what makes sense to me. Truthfully, that's one of the things I prefer about the AF100, DOF seems much easier to control vs. the 5D. Of course, that's on'y my opinion.

Shawn



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Martyn Greswolde
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:53:46 pm

After looking at the second link you posted I worked out thats what you were comparing it too. Problem is, with one of the selling points being you can use EF lenses, they are saying we want HDDSLR shooters to buy our product. With the +2x crop and the 2+ stops drop in DOF they are ruling themselves out of this market.

I would have thought allowing EF-S lenses or 4/3 would have been a better way to go.

Greswolde Photography
http://www.greswolde.com

I know little but I learn quickly!


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:56:50 am

[Shawn Miller] "
SSD to USB adapter or BlackMagic Design's HyperDeck Studio."


So basically tha main I/O is completely useless without a mac because thunderbolt and the fact that the camera formats the SSD's to HFS. Also I'd guess there's no way to use the Ultrascope function on Windows. Nicely done Blackmagic!


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Greg Andonian
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 4:45:15 am

So basically tha main I/O is completely useless without a mac because thunderbolt and the fact that the camera formats the SSD's to HFS

HFS isn't a complete showstopper- just get MacDrive for the PC and you're good to go...

______________________________________________
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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 4:51:39 am

I'm not quite sure what to make of this camera.

Is that an "integrated" (meaning not swappable) 90 minute battery?


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David Lawrence
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 5:03:30 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Is that an "integrated" (meaning not swappable) 90 minute battery?"

Hmmm, kinda looks that way. No mention of a battery compartment anywhere on the site. Non-swappable battery would be a letdown. Maybe they'll sell an external battery kit?

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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 5:15:10 am

It has 12V, so you could use standard batts, but then everything goes weird with rigs and weight.

I don't know, it's a jungle of electronics out there.

Is this the only footage? http://vimeopro.com/johnbrawleytests/blackmagic-cinema-camera

Erm...


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David Lawrence
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 5:56:22 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Is this the only footage? http://vimeopro.com/johnbrawleytests/blackmagic-cinema-camera

Erm..."


According to the post on John Brawley's site:
"So that’s all I’m allowed to show for now. There will be some more polished material soon I promise."

But yeah, want to see some better quality samples. The sensor in his test camera definitely belongs in the reject bin. Did you look at Beach Dusk around 4:38? I don't think I've ever seen that many dead pixels.

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John Brawley
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 2:52:36 pm

HI. The camera I shot this with is a hand built prototype. They haven't finished working on the sensor calibration yet, that takes care os noise, and dead pixels. This is very early days for this camera.

This is also why the ISO and Noise is still very much up for grabs.

jb


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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:52:25 pm

[John Brawley] "HI. The camera I shot this with is a hand built prototype. They haven't finished working on the sensor calibration yet, that takes care os noise, and dead pixels. This is very early days for this camera.

This is also why the ISO and Noise is still very much up for grabs.

jb"


Hi John, thanks for posting, despite some of the FUD being posted around other forums many of us can see what a useful camera this is going to be.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 4:40:36 pm

[John Brawley] "HI. The camera I shot this with is a hand built prototype. They haven't finished working on the sensor calibration yet, that takes care os noise, and dead pixels. This is very early days for this camera."

Thanks for posting, John. Actually, I thought the type of footage you shot was a decent bench mark. You have some high contrast, some low light, some handheld car ride movement, so kudos.

I am talking strictly from the camera look perspective.

It just seemed a bit soft, the dynamic range seemed off, and overall didn't seem like a camera that boasts 13 stops of DR. I hope you understand, I am not criticizing you, just the camera.

I know it's early days, but it's supposed to be shipped in July.

I don't know, I'll wait to see it, and thanks again for posting.


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David Lawrence
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 6:08:26 pm

[John Brawley] "HI. The camera I shot this with is a hand built prototype. They haven't finished working on the sensor calibration yet, that takes care os noise, and dead pixels. This is very early days for this camera."

Hi John, thanks for the post, makes complete sense. Excited about this camera and looking forward to seeing what it can do.

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Bob Woodhead
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 12:18:16 pm

With the target market this is (I think) intended for, an external 12V source wouldn't be a big deal. You'll likely be on rails anyway.


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Chris Kenny
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 5:16:42 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Is that an "integrated" (meaning not swappable) 90 minute battery?"

It seems to be, but it's actually kind of clever. I think this intent is that you use an external battery when it's practical (the DC port takes a nice wide 12-30V range, so you can power off of practically any battery system you might care to use) , which both powers the camera and charges the internal battery -- and then if you need a really lightweight configuration for a few handheld shots, you just operate off the internal battery for a while.

I imagine the internal battery is integrated for the same reason Apple does this -- when you're cramming things into a small enclosure, you can fit a larger battery in if you don't have to worry about providing access to it.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 5:30:05 am

[Chris Kenny] "I imagine the internal battery is integrated for the same reason Apple does this -- when you're cramming things into a small enclosure, you can fit a larger battery in if you don't have to worry about providing access to it."

Sure. I guess we'll go with that reasoning? I dunno. I'll hold back until I can see it.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 25, 2012 at 7:50:16 pm

Another test shot:

http://vimeopro.com/johnbrawleytests/blackmagic-cinema-camera/video/4039015...


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Robert Brown
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:50:36 pm

Pretty soon you'll be able to buy a full camera and post package for 99¢. Kind of unreal.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


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Greg Andonian
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 11:10:27 pm

This sounds really cool. I REALLY LIKE the fact that it records on standard SSDs instead of a new, proprietary format.


I also like the fact that it records RAW footage in CinemaDNG- this means Premiere Pro and SpeedGrade will be able to use it right away!

______________________________________________
"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Eric Mc Guire
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 9:32:49 am

If only the jello bug of the rolling shutter was limited. This looks like an extraordinary camera.


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Monty Wentzel
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 11:32:42 am

The sensor is to small it will be a telescope view...

Monty


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Todd Terry
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 2:48:40 pm

It's kinda neat... but you think Blackmagic would have learned a lesson or two from all the people screaming about their Canon DSLRs and what those won't do...

I think there are a few things keeping it from being a "real" camera... mostly the small sensor, the limited lens mounts (no PL mount, Blackmagic?), and poor audio inputs (you'd think they'd have XLR inputs with phantom power, to be a real player).

Also (unless I missed it in my first glance), the only way to hook up a "real" monitor on location is to have one that takes SDI inputs, which many don't. That seems pretty basic.

The throw-away price tag is certainly a draw, though. It does look like something that many production companies (including my own) might strongly consider as a "B" camera, but probably not as a primary.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Shawn Miller
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:16:30 pm

[Todd Terry] "It does look like something that many production companies (including my own) might strongly consider as a "B" camera, but probably not as a primary."

Agreed. On first impression, this looks like a great VFX camera. Would love to do some chromakey tests using CinemaDNG.

Shawn



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Monty Wentzel
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:23:23 pm

They must decide the price first and set out to build a camera second. Nope XLR put us over $2999.00, nope have to keep that small sensor because they are cheaper than full sized sensors...

The FIRST thing I look at on a new camera is the sensor size and I'll tell you why. In most rooms of a home in a car or even on the street you can't get the framing you want because you have to be so far away from the subject. Plus shallow focus etc...this is the look of and features of a full sized sensors and I won't go backwards.

I'm not crazy about an on-screen menu, prefer buttons...sunlight can make it difficult if not impossible but it's not a deal killer, the sensor is, no matter how cheap it is.

Monty


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Patrick Jenner
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:56:16 pm

Everything looks great until you see the skewing on pans (Jelly effect). I wonder if it'll come with it's own glass.
Why do they call 6.5mm holes "balanced analog" ? http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/techspecs/

Not a camera for me though, I'm a PC user and thus can't use HPFS or HFS or whatever it's called.


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Shawn Miller
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 4:23:05 pm

[Patrick Jenner] "Not a camera for me though, I'm a PC user and thus can't use HPFS or HFS or whatever it's called."

Macdrive will allow you to mount HFS volumes to a Windows machine. I use it when I get footage from MAC users, it works really well.

Shawn



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Patrick Jenner
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 7:36:14 am

Cheers on the mac drive advice, but I think I'll save my money for a camera with less rolling shutter on pans.


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Eric Mc Guire
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 4:31:58 pm

@Patrick:

Balanced and unbalanced audio inputs are made to support preamplified "lines" (like digital piano or preamplified signals) and/or unamplified signal (like a guitar jack). Basically, these inputs support every kind of jack 1/4 signal - whatever the source is. But you need balanced jacks to switch between these two kinds of sources.

It's not XLR but it's ok. Personnally, I don't hear much of a difference.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 4:41:36 pm

it seemed to me that the audio jacks are 1/4" TRS (balanced), right?


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Chris Harlan
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 9:26:46 pm

[Eric Mc Guire] "It's not XLR but it's ok. Personnally, I don't hear much of a difference.
"


There shouldn't be any difference, other than to the degree they stay clamped into the socket, which XLRs are better at. 1/4" Balanced is perfectly acceptable.


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Tim Wilson
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 5:50:18 pm

I use MediaFour MacDrive. $49, works fantastic. No discernible performance hit, absolutely invisible.

There are so many other utils, including some good free ones, for reading drives of any format that I just don't sweat this stuff any more.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



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Shawn Miller
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 4:19:25 pm

[Monty Wentzel] "The FIRST thing I look at on a new camera is the sensor size and I'll tell you why. In most rooms of a home in a car or even on the street you can't get the framing you want because you have to be so far away from the subject. Plus shallow focus etc...this is the look of and features of a full sized sensors and I won't go backwards."

So, based on the above stated criteria... the Canon 7D MkII is a better camera than the ARRI Alexa, the Sony F35 and the Panavision Genesis - and any camera with a '4k' sensor will be 'better' than any Super 35 sensor on the market.

At this point, I don't think any of us know how good the BlackMagic sensor is, but I am anxious to find out.

Shawn



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miles blow
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 8:22:16 am

Bit disappointed about no slow mo.....even the 7d shoot 60fps? Could this be added with firmware upgrade?

But great that its ready to roll, not like the 5 years or what ever waiting for scarlet.

Good work bmd!



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Steve Connor
Re: This also changes everything!!!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 8:40:11 am

Based on NAB this year, we've already put an order in for the BMD Cinema Camera and we'll also be getting the Sony FS700.

It;s a great time for cameras as well as NLEs

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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