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New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently

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Jason Brown
New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 7:30:45 pm

I'm guessing I'll see and I've been watching all the speculation, but I'm in need of a new tower and I'm guessing it will come soon. If it's going to be 6 more months...I'll buy one now, but I'd hate to be just a couple weeks out and buy something.

Not that anyone has any additional information to add...I'm really just venting.

Still waiting....-jason


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Steve Connor
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 7:40:21 pm

It is frustrating and there's been a lot of speculation on here about when and if they are coming.

Hopefully it's soon, a lot of countries don't have MacPros in stock on their Apple stores at the moment so that could be a sign?

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Shane Ross
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 7:44:58 pm

I'll say it here and now... I have heard from two reliable sources, unofficially, that the MacPro will not be updated. What is out now is it. And that the MacPro will be discontinued by the end of Q4 2012.

EOL.

Take that as you may. I for one believe it...and did before I was told this. That's why I'm looking hard at PC boxes and...shudder...Windows options.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Steve Connor
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 7:52:03 pm

[Shane Ross] "I'll say it here and now... I have heard from two reliable sources, unofficially, that the MacPro will not be updated. What is out now is it. And that the MacPro will be discontinued by the end of Q4 2012. "

I hope you're wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if you are right!

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Andrew Kimery
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 7:54:39 pm

Shane,

Do you think it's just the MacPro that is EOL or do you think Apple is exiting the pro desktop market entirely?

With Thunderbolt there's been speculation that Apple could 're-envision' what a higher end desktop computer looks like. I've tossed out the idea of a 'super mac mini' of sorts that is modular and relies on ThB for expansion as opposed to PCI slots.


-Andrew

2.9 GHz 8-core (4,1), FCP 7.0.3, 10.6.6
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (7.9.5)



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Shane Ross
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 7:59:10 pm

They'll stay in the Desktop computer market...with the iMac and the MacMini. Other than that, they'll have the MacBook Air...and might still stick with the MacBook Pro. Too many people buy that model to kill it off. Unlike the MacPro...which is a VERY small part of their market. Too small to be bothered with. Like the Broadcast professionals were too small of a "niche" market to be listened to when it came to FCX.

I think they envision Thunderbolt to be the thing of the future...the thing to replace PCI slot needing devices.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Thomas Frank
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 8:07:42 pm

They would be stupid if they drop it... the reason why everybody wants Apple product is because it is and might have been used by the high end.
If they drop it another will come around and they will get the demand Apple had... besides wasn't there hints for update after the new Intel chip?



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Andrew Kimery
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 8:13:59 pm

[Thomas Frank] "They would be stupid if they drop it... the reason why everybody wants Apple product is because it is and might have been used by the high end."

I feel like that was true at one time but I don't know if it still is. For example, Apple sold more iDevices in 2011 than they have sold Macs in the history of the company. When Jobs came back to Apple he said that the PC wars were over, that MS had won and Apple was looking for the next big thing.


-Andrew

2.9 GHz 8-core (4,1), FCP 7.0.3, 10.6.6
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (7.9.5)



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Phil Hoppes
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 9:10:48 pm

[Thomas Frank] "They would be stupid if they drop it... the reason why everybody wants Apple product is because it is and might have been used by the high end."

Sorry but no. 99.9% of Apple customers would not know what FCP or FCPX is let alone who uses it. Last years revenue was $109B of that, on a sun shine day with the wind to your back, MacPro and FCP sales combined probably did not top $100M. Apple customers know what an iPhone is, an iPad, an iPod and an iMac. That's it. $100M sounds like a lot.... until you realize that it represents %0.0917 of their annual income and heading LOWER. Get over it, this market, as crucial and important as it is to you and everyone else on this board, means nothing to Apple. If you can use iMacs and FCPX to do your work, Apple is very happy to have you on board. If you need something outside of what they have determined are THEIR target market needs, then you will be SOL as they say. This is not a personal attack it is simply a statement of fact.


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David Lawrence
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 8:19:21 pm

[Shane Ross] "I think they envision Thunderbolt to be the thing of the future...the thing to replace PCI slot needing devices."

Agreed. Here's the best explanation I've seen yet of why this is wishful thinking for pros and will probably remain so for a long time from Carey Dissmore. Well worth watching:

The future of the Mac Pro in video post (and why Thunderbolt is not the ans...

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 8:43:52 pm

Carey nails it.

Best,
Andy


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Andrew Kimery
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 9:11:22 pm

He does w/regards to the current version of ThB (i.e. copper), but, honestly, if raw performance and max expandability truly were our utmost concerns I don't think any creative pro would've stayed with Mac from the mid-to-late G4 era to day. Windows machines have had more slots, faster CPUs, a broader range of GPUs at better prices, more I/O options (USB 3, eSATA, HDMI), etc., yet people stuck w/Apple because, for lack of a better term, they preferred the way it feels. They, we, seem to tolerate quantifiable short comings in order to get something that's not quantifiable.

Now that DaVinci is $999 how many of those new installs are going on pretty limited MacPros and how many are going on Linux machines with a handful of GPUs in the box? Or what about Assimilates Scratch? People kept asking for a Mac version even though it would have limitations that the Windows version would not and Assimilate finally gave the people what they wanted (a not quite as functional version for the Mac) and they people we happy.

Good enough + Apple Secret Sauce = it will sell, IMO. People will bitch and moan but they'll still buy it and tweak their workflows to use it and life will go on.

Honestly, I figured Apple would give the MP another refresh or two before sending it off into the sunset.


-Andrew

2.9 GHz 8-core (4,1), FCP 7.0.3, 10.6.6
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (7.9.5)



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Paul Harrison
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 9:58:40 pm

I guess that while I understand 16 = 4 x 4 with regard to PCI lanes, I don't know whether this is a big deal. The "gamer" community has settled on not caring about PCI bus speed for maxing out their frames per second in demanding video games. The question is really, "what are the bus requirements for NLE / VFX operations?" If the work done by CUDA or OpenCL routines deep in the heart of your post software is shuttling data back and forth from CPU to GPU at too high a rate, then 16-lane PCIe 2 or even PCIe 3 becomes critical and Thunderbolt becomes a bottleneck. But if the software is transferring chunks of work in units that don't send so many gigabits of data per second back and forth, the TB strategy could still be a winner.

I also suspect that with SSDs replacing optical and moving-head disks in MBPs, Minis and iMacs, and with Ivy Bridge some thermal capacity becomes available to Apple to put heavier duty GPU's in these smaller machines. Nvidia and AMD are also shrinking dies for their GPUs so we get more shaders per watt.

So, it may be that the MacPro is EOLed real soon now, and that the only people who would actually care are folk who have long since moved their graphics processing to huge farms of Linux-based specialty boxes and supercomputer clusters. Technology and Apple may truly be at this tipping point now in 2012.


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Shawn Marshall
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 10:46:30 pm

We, too, have $6000-$8000 ready to drop on a new Mac Pro with the new Xeon chips if Apple would just release them. That's the equivalent of 12-16 iPads. Yes, that's a drop in the bucket compared to all of Apple's consumer gear, but I find it hard to believe that Apple can't turn a profit selling Mac Pros. It wouldn't be a huge profit compared to the consumer market, but it's not like they'd be selling the Mac Pros for a loss.

And wouldn't the guys who write code for Apple want to working on beefy desktop computers? Remember those stories about how various aspects of the Windows interface were designed on Macs? Wouldn't it be sad/ironic if Apple programmers had to design and program on Wintel machines because Apple stopped making Mac Pros?

If you want to see new Mac Pros then let Apple know. I went to this site:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html

and told them I'm ready to give Apple $6000-$8000 if they'd just update the Mac Pros. Maybe they read this feedback like they say, maybe they don't. But it doesn't hurt to try.

Shawn Marshall
Marshall Arts Motion Graphics


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Michael Gissing
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 10:51:18 pm

If people purchase hardware based on an OS rather than application software and hardware then it is time to move on. Apple has moved on and so should we. It is possible to bitch or praise any OS but once the software of choice is considered and the power, price and flexibility of hardware is factored in, then only FCPX users will be yearning for a MacPro which Apple is so unlikely to provide.

I bought my Octo Nehalem in late 2009 and am unimpressed that I will not get at least four years out of it before it becomes a boat anchor. Apple's overpriced hardware and lack of up to date graphics cards means I would be crazy to run AVID/ Adobe/da Vinci on anything other than a WIN screamer that I can build myself for a fraction of the price and update cheaply often.


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Shane Ross
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 4, 2012 at 11:57:43 pm

Think the MacPro is overpriced. Look at the HP Z800, that is the one rated for Avid MC, Scratch... It starts at $3000. With a pathetic amount of RAM, and ho hum graphics card.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Michael Gissing
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:14:15 am

With Mac there is not much choice and they are all overpriced for the features and performance. HP make expensive boxes but I have the choice of buying parts and building my own for much less. Graphics cards are much cheaper for WIN machines and RAM is now cheap as chips.

So yes I still think a fully featured MacPro is overpriced, even if you can find the odd overpriced PC off the shelf.


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Shawn Marshall
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:44:34 am

I submit that "overpriced" is in the eye of the beholder. My 2008 eight-core Mac Pro is the heart of our small business, and we've been able to bill many hundreds of thousands of dollars over the past four years, almost all of that flowing through that workstation. So, to me, spending $6000 for a rock-solid workstation is well worth the price.

That said, OS X is more important to me than the hardware. If Apple doesn't want to make Mac Pros then they should license OS X to other hardware makers.

I just don't like working in Windows. I have to fire up Windows 7 (via VMWare Fusion) to run Polytrans for CAD conversion, and I find it somewhat unintuitive. I don't like that Win 7 has to download updates practically every week. Yes, if the only way to upgrade my hardware is to switch to Windows, we'll do it, and I'll eventually get used to Windows. But I never would have imagined it would come to this, that Apple would abandon the pros.

As an Apple user I'd always root for them when they were the underdog, like they were part of my family. To say that I'm now conflicted regarding their success would be an understatement.

Shawn Marshall
Marshall Arts Motion Graphics


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Michael Gissing
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:58:32 am

Shawn, overpriced is a matter of direct comparison of hardware performance. Nothing about how the eye may behold, just a side by side grunt for dollars comparison. I have WIN, Mac and Linux in my post facility so I can directly compare OS and hardware.

First rule for me is not to allow WIN machine online. Networked yes, but off the Internet. Forget all the updates and anti virus bloat. Run it lean and don't bloat registries. Same rule for the Mac, although I have to allow it online for some updates. Reliability is managed. I see no difference between my WIN boxes or a MacPro in reliability. There is however a difference in the cost of upgrading hardware so I am forced to try to get more mileage from the Mac.

Linux on the office machine is the internet gateway. There are eight machines networked all up.


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Shawn Marshall
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:50:31 am

Michael, I would concede that Macs are probably priced higher than similarly-configured Wintel machines, but saying they're OVERpriced is a subjective assessment. Overpriced is a pejorative term, and I maintain that it's a matter of opinion. Your opinion is that Macs are overpriced compared to Windows hardware, and that's fine, you're entitled to that opinion.

My opinion is that there's more to a workstation than raw processing power, graphics cards, expandability, etc. I like OS X. I'm comfortable in OS X. I like being able to browse the web and check email on my Mac Pro while I'm rendering a 3D frame in C4D or a generating a RAM preview in After Effects. That works for me, in our studio. I'd rather work on a Mac that's a little slower than give up OS X for a faster Wintel machine. Now at some point, if Apple dumbs down OS X to something I can't use professionally then we'll revisit Windows and all of the hassles that will be involved in changing over all of our software.

My opinion is that, in the grand scheme of our business, Mac Pros are priced fairly. Sure, I wished they were closer to $3000 like the top-end models used to be ten years ago, but that premium is worth it to me to be able to reliably run OS X on an 8 or 16-core workstation.

As I wrote earlier, I could live with Apple licensing OS X to other hardware builders. Our first personal Mac was a Mac iici circa 1994, but our first workstation was one of the short-lived Mac clones, a Umax Supermac circa 1997. Back then, just starting out, we couldn't afford a real Mac. Times have changed.

Cheers.

Shawn


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:43:33 pm

[Shawn Marshall] I don't like that Win 7 has to download updates practically every week.

This is why I find people who harp on Windows (especially version 7), to be ridiculously forgetful when it comes to using OSX. Do you know how often the Software Update box pops up on my OSX station? Quite a bit, and it's far more intrusive than Windows Update.

I also have to reboot both my OSX and Windows machines on roughly the same time basis for slowdowns/instability/ect. Neither is immune.

Both OSX and Windows 7 are equally solid choices when it comes to a desktop OS. OSX has some stuff I love that I wish Windows would duplicate, and there are things on Windows that I wish OSX had (one example: the detailed window you get when overwriting a file on Windows is super helpful, while OSX gives you nothing).


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Dennis Radeke
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 11:41:36 am

[Shane Ross] "Think the MacPro is overpriced. Look at the HP Z800, that is the one rated for Avid MC, Scratch... It starts at $3000. With a pathetic amount of RAM, and ho hum graphics card."

True, but I would add the following:

a) You know HP is continuing to invest in the workstation market
b) You have choice that you can't really get in a Mac Pro (GPU, drive configuration, peripherals)
c) Perhaps most interesting to me is (my opinion) that the Z800 is a better Mac from a case design POV than the Mac. Case design, entry into the system, accessibility, layout are all superior to MacPro which was designed in 2004.
d) Once a system is properly configured, I imagine your prices are the same or close to it.

In the end, you're paying for the HP name, design, etc. just like you are for a MacPro. Can you build a screamin' PC for a fraction of the cost of an HP - absolutely. At least you have the option in PC land, your option on the Mac is to buy an iMac.


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Steve Connor
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 11:53:18 am

[Dennis Radeke] "In the end, you're paying for the HP name, design, etc. just like you are for a MacPro. Can you build a screamin' PC for a fraction of the cost of an HP - absolutely. At least you have the option in PC land, your option on the Mac is to buy an iMac.
"


This is all nothing new, that is the way it has been for the last few years, yet still people chose Macs over PC's.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Andrew Kimery
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:53:54 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "c) Perhaps most interesting to me is (my opinion) that the Z800 is a better Mac from a case design POV than the Mac. Case design, entry into the system, accessibility, layout are all superior to MacPro which was designed in 2004."

The shell of the Mac tower is from '04, but the interior layout has changed multiple times as it's contained everything from single proc G5's, to water-cooled CPUs, to the intel chips it has today.


-Andrew

2.9 GHz 8-core (4,1), FCP 7.0.3, 10.6.6
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (7.9.5)



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Dennis Radeke
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:57:49 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "The shell of the Mac tower is from '04, but the interior layout has changed multiple times as it's contained everything from single proc G5's, to water-cooled CPUs, to the intel chips it has today."

True Andrew.

My comment was around the idea that HP has 'out-appled' Apple in elegent form and functional design for towers. I'm on record as stating the HP Z800 case design is a thing of beauty and superior in almost every way.


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Bobby Mosca
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:03:16 pm

I disagree. I will still have to jump online for stock footage, emails, research... whatever, and I'm comfortable doing that on the Mac. If I have to move to Windows for my editing machine, it would take an act of Congress to get me to go online with that thing, or leave it connected at all. I haven't caught a virus in decades on my HP because I know what I'm doing, but I never feel safe on it. Working on Windows is just a sole-sucking enterprise.


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:18:05 pm

[Bobby Mosca] If I have to move to Windows for my editing machine, it would take an act of Congress to get me to go online with that thing, or leave it connected at all.

But wait, there's more!

I haven't caught a virus in decades on my HP because I know what I'm doing, but I never feel safe on it.

So you haven't gotten a virus in decades, but yet you don't feel safe because of... (drumroll please)...PROPAGANDA!

I haven't gotten a virus in decades either. And I feel completely safe taking my Windows machine online.

And given that OSX/iOS is itself also not immune to malware, why do you still feel safe taking your Mac online?

Propaganda for $500, Alex.


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Bobby Mosca
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 6:48:12 pm

Yes, all the IT people I know who are forced to work in Windows get a bonus for making stuff up about it.


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:39:41 pm

[Bobby Mosca] "I disagree. I will still have to jump online for stock footage, emails, research... whatever, and I'm comfortable doing that on the Mac. If I have to move to Windows for my editing machine, it would take an act of Congress to get me to go online with that thing, or leave it connected at all. I haven't caught a virus in decades on my HP because I know what I'm doing, but I never feel safe on it. Working on Windows is just a sole-sucking enterprise."

Most security firms agree that OSX is a lot less secure than current windows or linux. As more Macs will be in usage, more issues will show up and more maleware will be written.
First signs of this trend are very prominent:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/04/05/flashback_trojan_estimated_to...


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Thomas Frank
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 6:08:44 pm

What? Who the hell said that some guy on a blog???
ON your 600k for a trojan is not that bad if you consider how many get infected on daily basis in the Windows world.

Back on the Mac Pro who said that Mac Pro is end of life? If it would we would have seen it.
Question is what is next a power full iMac or another Mac Pro?



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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 6:16:37 pm

[Thomas Frank] "What? Who the hell said that some guy on a blog???
ON your 600k for a trojan is not that bad if you consider how many get infected on daily basis in the Windows world."


Said what?
The info about the 600k infections is coming from a security firm and not "some buy on a blog". Plus it's been published on lots of other tech sites as well.
That fact that windows 7 is more secure than OSX is nothing new and this, too, has been well publicised in the past.

It's irrelevant how many are infected on a daily basis if you don't look at market share and why there is currently less infection on the Mac platform. It's not because the Mac is more secure, period.


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Thomas Frank
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 6:17:59 pm

That secure companies are saying OSX is less Secure then Windows that would make Linux also less secure right... yup..



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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 6:20:18 pm

[Thomas Frank] "That secure companies are saying OSX is less Secure then Windows that would make Linux also less secure right... yup.."

No!


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Otto Preminger
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Nov 1, 2013 at 7:21:54 pm

Would you be so kind and help me regarding hardware choice for PFClean 2013?
At this moment I can see some improvements with GPU enabled-ATI HD 5770. Is the Nvida better choice thanks to CUDA?
Also what will be difference between Intel Xeon Quad Core X3230 2.66GHz 8MB 1066MHz and i7 920?
Thank you in advance.


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nick ring
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:43:29 am

I'm not doubting your sources, but I'm not yet ready to believe it. I would not be surprised if the MacPro is EOLed, but Apple comes out with a redesigned/rejiggered box, maybe along the lines of NewMP:MacMini like FCPX:iMovie or NewMP:MP as FCPX:FCP7. We'll be disappointed in it, but there'll be more going on there than people initially give it credit for.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:22:10 am

[Shane Ross] "I'll say it here and now... I have heard from two reliable sources, unofficially, that the MacPro will not be updated. "

Just curious, but were these reliable sources in sales and work at places that (perhaps) sling Windows boxes? ;)


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Shane Ross
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 5:55:08 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Just curious, but were these reliable sources in sales and work at places that (perhaps) sling Windows boxes? ;)"

Nope.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 11:19:17 am

[Shane Ross] "Nope"

So why haven't they killed it?

It's not in Apple's best interest to sell old tech, being a technology company....


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Shane Ross
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:13:29 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "So why haven't they killed it?"

Not sure...I can only guess. My guess is they want to sell off what they have. They might have the parts for a lot more, so they are going to make and sell them until the parts are gone. Well, with a few in standby for repairs.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:45:06 pm

[Shane Ross] "Not sure...I can only guess. My guess is they want to sell off what they have. "

So you think that this slow bleed is to sell off current stock? No way.

I'd be curious as to what your reliable sources say.

Look at what happened when FCP7 was discontinued, it sold out almost everywhere, that's how you sell it out by saying it's not going to be around anymore.

Look at the HP TouchPad, it wouldn't sell, then HP announced a price drop and discontinuation, and it sold like hot cakes for a soon to be defunct product.

This post started with "I need a new MacPro, should I wait?" If Apple announced the denouement of the MacPro, do you think Jason would wait, or would he buy one?

Jeremy


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Shane Ross
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 6:31:15 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This post started with "I need a new MacPro, should I wait?" If Apple announced the denouement of the MacPro, do you think Jason would wait, or would he buy one? "

If he wants a MacPro...he should buy one now. The current model is...well, the current model. It won't be updated. So if he wants a tower, and he wants a Mac, he should buy now. It won't be updated, so a better one won't come out in the future.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Look at what happened when FCP7 was discontinued, it sold out almost everywhere, that's how you sell it out by saying it's not going to be around anymore. "

It was just a guess. I'm not a businessman, I'm a creative editor. I have NO CLUE what they are thinking. WHy do they say "Hey, look at this new OS that won't be released for 6 months. Isn't it cool?" And yet until FCX, they never did that with FCP. You saw it the day it came out. And they don't say "hey, soon we will discontinue this item" until it is time for them to discontinue the item.

[Jeremy Garchow] "I'd be curious as to what your reliable sources say."

They don't know what Apple is thinking. They just know that they aren't working on updated boxes.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Thomas Frank
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 7:15:50 pm

Apple has pre-announce OS for awhile now. Nothing new here for all other Applications yes they don't announce anything like other in the market.

I still like to know where you get this info that the Mac Pro is done... you might be right this model is but I think we will see something new with Xeon E5 Chips.
Don't forget Tim Cook is more Enterprise friendly
"Tim Cook has met with corporate customers more often than Jobs did, doesn't tend to insult those customers as Jobs did, and appreciates the needs of enterprises. But he doesn't deviate from Jobs' view that consumers are the priority for Apple."



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 7:24:57 pm

[Shane Ross] ""Hey, look at this new OS that won't be released for 6 months. Isn't it cool?" And yet until FCX, they never did that with FCP. You saw it the day it came out. And they don't say "hey, soon we will discontinue this item" until it is time for them to discontinue the item. "

Because OSX is central to their development as a company, that's why the peddle the OS early so that developers are on board when the OS is released. This is software.

Let's look at recent history at the discontinuing of Apple hardware:

http://images.apple.com/xserve/pdf/L422277A_Xserve_Guide.pdf

So, if it's not a MacPro, what are they working on? Your sources say nothing?

Jeremy


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Shane Ross
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 10:36:15 pm

My sources only said that Apple wasn't going to update the MacPro...and was going to discontinue it. I'm not going to go asking them more and more questions.

And that document was from 2010...when they were also probably still thinking of doing FCP 8...and not swerving off to the tangent that is FCX.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 10:40:58 pm

[Shane Ross] "My sources only said that Apple wasn't going to update the MacPro...and was going to discontinue it."

I don't doubt that. That doesn't mean there won't be a new machine with a different form.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 10:56:36 pm

[Shane Ross] "'m not going to go asking them more and more questions. "

No fun. :(

:-D


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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 11:06:27 pm

[Shane Ross] "My sources only said that Apple wasn't going to update the MacPro...and was going to discontinue it. I'm not going to go asking them more and more questions.

And that document was from 2010...when they were also probably still thinking of doing FCP 8...and not swerving off to the tangent that is FCX."


I don't think a lot of people really appreciate the degree to which the unprecedented success of the iPhone and its offspring have had on Apple. I can't imagine such success NOT atrophying old business. Its like they were mining silver, but found a bunch of gems and rare earth metals. Sure, they could continue to make money on the silver, but everyone's attention is on the big loot. Now, they're just kicking chunks of silver out of their way on the way to the giant gem cavern. Pro Apps just has got to be the nowhere place to be at Apple, these days. I'm guessing everybody there wants into the gem cave. I've also noticed that all the big boy stock options vest just prior to the time that iDiamonds should reach worldwide saturation, so unless Apple has a lot more hidden in its sparkly cave, this iBonanza IS the big haul.


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 12:25:17 am

[Shane Ross] "And that document was from 2010...when they were also probably still thinking of doing FCP 8...and not swerving off to the tangent that is FCX."

The Xserve EOL came on November 5th, 2010. They showed FCPX (privately) for the first time on February 22nd, 2011, 3 months and 17 days later. They showed it publicly at NAB a few months after that. So no, there was no "swerving" at that time. FCPX was late in development when the Xserve EOL was announced.

Best,
Andy


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David Roth Weiss
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 12:54:06 pm

Definitely not anything Shane heard from me Jeremy. I'm as shocked to hear this as anyone. Not that it's unexpected, just that someone plausible may have confirmed what many have been concerned about.

Believe me, if we do lose Apple workstations, it will be a terrible loss for our industry.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com
Sales | Integration | Support


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 1:35:03 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Definitely not anything Shane heard from me Jeremy. I'm as shocked to hear this as anyone. Not that it's unexpected, just that someone plausible may have confirmed what many have been concerned about."

Hmm. I didn't even think about that, David.

Now that we have you, what have you heard? Is ProMax still selling MacPros?

[David Roth Weiss] "Believe me, if we do lose Apple workstations, it will be a terrible loss for our industry."

It will make things weird for a while, but we'll be ok, and I mean the collective we.

What I think about is a lot of After Effects artists. I know a fair amount and they are Mac folks through and through. I'm not super terribly worried about a Windows switch. It's going to suck, it's going to be expensive, and it's going to take a lot of time, but I'm sure we can do it if we fracking have to. Some of the AE folks aren't going to be very happy at all.

Jeremy


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 3:50:10 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "What I think about is a lot of After Effects artists. I know a fair amount and they are Mac folks through and through. I'm not super terribly worried about a Windows switch. It's going to suck, it's going to be expensive, and it's going to take a lot of time, but I'm sure we can do it if we fracking have to. Some of the AE folks aren't going to be very happy at all. "

That's exactly the position I was in. I was a Mac guy, and I wasn't happy about the prospect of using Windows because of my opinions dating back to Windows XP (and before).

Turns out I was being dumb. I started doing creative work on Windows 7 three or four months ago -- and everything was fine.

I've found Windows 7 to be stable, secure, and easy-to-use. It's a different experience than OS X, and that requires a little adjustment, but that doesn't make it bad.

Several folks here have very good reasons for not wanting to switch away from OS X, but it sounds like a lot of others have just accepted the FUD about Windows without actually trying it for themselves.

Criticizing Windows for blue screens, registry edits, and DLL hell is like criticizing OS X for kernel panics, Terminal hacks, and permissions repair. Sometimes bad things happen on both platforms, because modern computers are enormously complex systems with zillions of failure modes -- but they're not part of the ordinary, every day experience.

I think a lot of the so-called conventional wisdom creatives hold about Windows systems goes back to older versions of the operating system, or mass-market machines with poor drivers or tons of unneeded preloaded software. Working on a well-built workstation with good hardware and no shovelware gives a very smooth user experience.

I've been seriously impressed with the Z800 that HP sent me -- it's well-designed, it's solid, and it works. I'll bet that machines like DRW's ProMax One are also impressive. There are legitimate alternatives to the Mac Pro, and those AE artists you know should consider the high-performance options available to them on the PC platform from committed vendors who demonstrably care about the DCC segment.

Honestly, I think I was foolish to not go cross-platform sooner.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 4:10:15 pm

I hear that, Walter. The AE artists I talk to aren't interested, and they don't have the render garden you have either. ;)


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 8, 2012 at 12:24:13 am

[Walter Soyka] "Criticizing Windows for blue screens, registry edits, and DLL hell is like criticizing OS X for kernel panics, Terminal hacks, and permissions repair. Sometimes bad things happen on both platforms, because modern computers are enormously complex systems with zillions of failure modes -- but they're not part of the ordinary, every day experience."

Yeah, I was really reaching with those when I brought them up. The point I was struggling to make, which I still hold true, is that I dislike the architecture of Windows. It may be a totally subjective opinion at this point, since as you noted Win7 is at least as solid as OS X when assembled by a learned hand. But UNIX feels like a first language to me while Windows is more like a foreign tongue in which I can say "hello, good bye, please, thank you, where's the toilet" and feel thoroughly awkward doing it.

Without fail, any time I need to figure something out in Windows, I curse Windows aloud because it is so unintuitive. I just don't like it! I use it more now than I used to thanks to VMware, and all that frequent use serves to remind me how much I prefer OS X.

But maybe I feel it more since a lot of my work is in the OS, not immersed in creative apps that are nearly indistinguishable from platform to platform

Best,
Andy


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Tim Wilson
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 8, 2012 at 2:08:28 am

Andrew Richards/b> “But maybe I feel it more since a lot of my work is in the OS, not immersed in creative apps that are nearly indistinguishble from platform to platform....“

Completely fair and very well-stated. I think the end of your quote is exactly the point that Walter and others have been making, that if you're a “legacy“ Mac guy working in a cross-platform application, the trip to Windows needn't be the fire and brimstone it has historically been made out to be...or actually may have been. :-) For many (most?) people, it's little more than getting past a boot screen, learning some keyboard shortcuts, and getting used to faster speeds. LOL

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 8, 2012 at 4:14:42 am

[Tim Wilson] "For many (most?) people, it's little more than getting past a boot screen, learning some keyboard shortcuts, and getting used to faster speeds. LOL
"


When I came over from Windows XP years ago, I had heard from many a Mac Head how different the experience would be. It just wasn't that way. I found everything sort of the same but in a slightly different place.


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 9, 2012 at 4:55:47 pm

[Andrew Richards] "The point I was struggling to make, which I still hold true, is that I dislike the architecture of Windows. It may be a totally subjective opinion at this point, since as you noted Win7 is at least as solid as OS X when assembled by a learned hand. But UNIX feels like a first language to me while Windows is more like a foreign tongue"

That's fair. I'm geeky enough to remember when Apple switched the default shell in Mac OS X from tcsh to bash. I do understand where you're coming from, and I think that "Windows is not UNIX" is a perfectly valid reason for someone who needs UNIX not to like Windows.

However, most of us here don't need UNIX. We need things like stability, performance, and security. For a long time, UNIX had them and Windows didn't, but I'm arguing that's no longer true.

My main point is this: Creatives can do their work on the Windows platform.

If you think you need to work on a Mac because you're a creative, or if you think you can't work on a PC because you're not a Microsoft IT nerd, you might have an outdated view of the Windows platform.

There are good reasons to pick one platform over another, but I'd hate to see people here artificially constraining their choices because they're buying into stereotypes about Macs and PCs.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 9, 2012 at 5:30:16 pm

[Walter Soyka] "There are good reasons to pick one platform over another, but I'd hate to see people here artificially constraining their choices because they're buying into stereotypes about Macs and PCs."

Have any Windows users had to do disaster recovery (like a bonked OS or something similar) on Windows yet?

How about if your desktop dies and your laptop is functioning, can you boot your desktop via your laptop?

How is Windows cloning, these days? From what I can gather, if you don't have the exact right drivers, it's a pain in the a$$ (unlike mac where you can boot almost any Mac from any other Mac)

I like MacOS. I find it easier to use (I also have Windows). I don't need to tinker with the OS too much, but when I do, I find Linux easier.

The Bootcamp install of Windows 7 was one of the most frustrating things I've ever had to do. Bootcamp was great, Windows was terrible.

As someone who has to "maintain" 5 working edit systems, I find MacOS to be a much more pleasurable experience.

I know, perhaps I am a weenie, but I do not think it's as easy as "insert DVD and install". Where the rubber meets the road is disaster recovery. Things work great right up unit they don't. I'd love to hear real world Windows disaster stories if anyone has them.

Jeremy


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 9, 2012 at 6:30:07 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Have any Windows users had to do disaster recovery (like a bonked OS or something similar) on Windows yet?"

I have been cloning and restoring Windows PCs that we've used for some specialty applications for years. It works.


[Jeremy Garchow] "How about if your desktop dies and your laptop is functioning, can you boot your desktop via your laptop?"

Target disk mode doesn't exist on PCs like it does on a Mac, so no, you can't just connect two computers and use one as the boot disk for the other.


[Jeremy Garchow] "How is Windows cloning, these days? From what I can gather, if you don't have the exact right drivers, it's a pain in the a$$ (unlike mac where you can boot almost any Mac from any other Mac)"

It's a piece of cake, and I use essentially the same procedure on Windows that I did on Macs -- one clone or image per machine. Once a machine is configured, it's imaged or cloned for easy recovery.

I use Acronis TrueImage.

If you want to deploy a single machine across heterogeneous machines, that would require third-party deployment software to manage the drivers. Acronis offers such a feature as an add-on to TrueImage, and as a separate product built specifically for deployment.


[Jeremy Garchow] "I like MacOS. I find it easier to use (I also have Windows). I don't need to tinker with the OS too much, but when I do, I find Linux easier."

"I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis."

I like OS X, too. A lot. But as I bounce back and forth between platforms, I'm finding that I'm just don't spend time tinkering with the operating system. I set it and forget it. If I need to change something and I don't know how to do it -- I Google it. Like when Lion turned scrolling upside-down.

I do spend some time in Finder on the Mac and Explorer on the PC, but that's really most of my exposure to the operating system. I like some things in Finder better (vastly superior list view), but some things in Explorer better (vastly superior folder merging during copy).


[Jeremy Garchow] "The Bootcamp install of Windows 7 was one of the most frustrating things I've ever had to do. Bootcamp was great, Windows was terrible."

I've installed BootCamp on 4 Macs, and I can't recall any problems. That said, I certainly believe you ran into them. The process is pretty finicky.

Of course, this would not be an issue buying a Windows workstation from any of the big workstation vendors.


[Jeremy Garchow] "As someone who has to "maintain" 5 working edit systems, I find MacOS to be a much more pleasurable experience."

Fair. We've discussed this before, and I understand why OS X is a good choice for you. I'm not trying to convince you to switch.

I'm just trying to open people's minds about Windows a little bit. I myself was very close-minded about Windows, even though I had to use it pretty regularly for some specialty applications. It wasn't until I actually forced myself to try my entire workflow from start to finish on a PC -- really living in Windows for a little while, instead of doing the creative on Macs and the final preparation and display management on PCs -- that I was able to appreciate the benefits.

It's not unlike FCP7 and FCPX. You can't appreciate what FCPX does right if you keep trying to use it the way you used FCP7.

You might have to relearn a few things (like how to clone a Windows system instead of how to clone a Mac OS X system), but punching error messages into Google or asking for troubleshooting help on the COW works just as well from a PC as it does from a Mac.


[Jeremy Garchow] "I know, perhaps I am a weenie, but I do not think it's as easy as "insert DVD and install". Where the rubber meets the road is disaster recovery. Things work great right up unit they don't. I'd love to hear real world Windows disaster stories if anyone has them."

I think it is pretty much as easy as insert DVD and install. On a couple of my systems that travel for use on-site at client events, it's standard operating procedure to restore their recovery image when they come back (to restore settings and make sure all sensitive client material is removed).

Back in the bad old days of Windows XP, I restored a cloned image onto a system that had been infected with virus from a client's USB stick while I was on-site. I turned the machine off, inserted the recovery boot CD, plugged in the USB hard drive with the saved, known-good image, booted it back up, and let it do its thing.

Recovery works.

Things working great until they don't is true of both platforms. I think we've all got the scars to prove that.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 9, 2012 at 7:07:42 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Things working great until they don't is true of both platforms. I think we've all got the scars to prove that."

A colleague of mine had a disaster when trying to download and install Lion (without my permission of course, nyuk nyuk nyuk). In the middle of the install, kernel panic!!!! Shite.

I took the machine, plugged in the USB stick of Lion that I had made, rebooted and it continued installing right where it left off before the panic. Once installed, everything has been just fine. No data loss, no reformat, and everything has been running.

I know people have clowned Lion, I do not. Yes, there's some weird consumerist things going on like the reverse scroll to match an iDevice, but it seems there's also a lot going on behind the scenes.

It is this level of OS that I enjoy.

I am not saying that Windows doesn't have similar features, maybe it does. Of course, you will probably say that downloading an OS is stupid to begin with and you'd have a point.


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 9, 2012 at 7:43:21 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "A colleague of mine had a disaster when trying to download and install Lion (without my permission of course, nyuk nyuk nyuk). In the middle of the install, kernel panic!!!! Shite. I took the machine, plugged in the USB stick of Lion that I had made, rebooted and it continued installing right where it left off before the panic. Once installed, everything has been just fine. No data loss, no reformat, and everything has been running."

That's cool.


[Jeremy Garchow] "I am not saying that Windows doesn't have similar features, maybe it does. Of course, you will probably say that downloading an OS is stupid to begin with and you'd have a point."


I have no idea what would happen if Windows BSODed during an OS install, but Windows does have a feature for repairing a system from the OS install disk. I'd think that the install could be recovered, but I don't know for sure.

I actually don't have a problem with downloading an OS. It's just software -- why shouldn't you be able to download it to install?

It's fortunate for your colleague that you had the foresight to make that boot disk for Lion. Someone with only one machine and no Jeremy G. around to help would have been hosed without physical install media.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 9, 2012 at 8:19:29 pm

[Walter Soyka] "It's fortunate for your colleague that you had the foresight to make that boot disk for Lion. Someone with only one machine and no Jeremy G. around to help would have been hosed without physical install media."

Well, we all do what we can to make sure when disaster strikes (and you never know when) that we are covered as much as we can possibly be, right?

In actuality, I made the Lion installer because I knew that it was going to be boring waiting for that thing to download every time we needed to install Lion. There's instructions out there to make your own USB stick, but you have to do it BEFORE you actually install Lion (but right after you download it).

It's really easy. ;)

Jeremy


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 9, 2012 at 9:09:08 pm

[Walter Soyka] "However, most of us here don't need UNIX. We need things like stability, performance, and security. For a long time, UNIX had them and Windows didn't, but I'm arguing that's no longer true.

My main point is this: Creatives can do their work on the Windows platform.

If you think you need to work on a Mac because you're a creative, or if you think you can't work on a PC because you're not a Microsoft IT nerd, you might have an outdated view of the Windows platform."


Yep. But you gotta admit, this has really only been true since Win7 came out 2.5 years ago. Prior to that, XP was really creaking and Vista was... Vista. It isn't like Windows didn't earn that bad reputation it has been recently shaking off.

Best,
Andy


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 9, 2012 at 9:23:01 pm

[Andrew Richards] "Yep. But you gotta admit, this has really only been true since Win7 came out 2.5 years ago. Prior to that, XP was really creaking and Vista was... Vista. It isn't like Windows didn't earn that bad reputation it has been recently shaking off."

Wholeheartedly agree.

I suffered with machines on Windows XP, but that was only a small part of my long-standing distaste for Windows. For context, I ran OS/2 (!) on my IBM desktop in the 1990s because it could run Windows apps but offered a well-designed UI and preemptive multitasking. I also fiddled with Amiga, BeOS, and Coherent.

Acceptance of Windows is very, very new to me.

I'm just encouraging people to evaluate Windows today with an open mind, the same as others here encourage them to evaluate FCPX with an open mind. It's not the same as what came before.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Thomas Frank
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 9, 2012 at 10:44:44 pm

I have been jumping from Windows to Irix to Linux to Windows and then to Mac.
You are right it is the tool that gets your job done, but the tools work much better on Mac then Windows and faster... not meaning Render time and etc... faster working on the platforms.

If you take OSX away (why would they?) give me Irix back! :P



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Robert Brown
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:38:00 pm

I think a lot of people who dread windoze will be pleasantly surprised. Win7's not bad at all. I have no idea what the next thing is they're about to roll out but I totally skipped Vista so I don't really care. I still prefer OSX for editing, many because I like quick look so much but there are ways to get something like that going in Win7.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


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Helmut Kobler
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:33:53 am

I think the fact that there's been no new Mac Pro announced (even though new Xeons are available) AND there are rumors of matte-screen iMacs on the way cast a lot of doubt on the chances for a new Mac Pro.

Personally, I can't believe Apple would be so stupid. One more Mac Pro with Thunderbolt would go a long way to appeasing long-time customers, and keep media professionals in the Apple camp. But Apple seems to be in such a hurry to dump the machine, just like it was in such a hurry to dump Final Cut Studio.

-------------------
Documentary Camera in Los Angeles
http://www.lacameraman.com


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:56:50 am

[Helmut Kobler] "I think the fact that there's been no new Mac Pro announced (even though new Xeons are available) AND there are rumors of matte-screen iMacs on the way cast a lot of doubt on the chances for a new Mac Pro. "

When was the last time Apple announced a new Mac ahead of its ship date? Macs are "announced" the same day they ship. And I put "announced" in quotes because all they will do is update the website, maybe even with a homepage badge to link to them. Oh, and refresh the brick and mortar store stocks and displays (what's left of them).

Macs don't get press events (or even press releases) anymore.

[Helmut Kobler] "One more Mac Pro with Thunderbolt would go a long way to appeasing long-time customers, and keep media professionals in the Apple camp."

One more would be as bad as no more. Either build a chassis for the next several years or scuttle it. One more is not a commitment, one more is dead Mac walking.

[Helmut Kobler] "But Apple seems to be in such a hurry to dump the machine, just like it was in such a hurry to dump Final Cut Studio."

If they were in a hurry, we'd already know for certain about an EOL. Seems to me they are taking their good sweet excruciating time.

Best,
Andy


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John Moffat
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 7:29:46 am

iMac with a matte screen... iMac Pro :-)

BTW... Didn't apple change the internals of the current iMac making it possible to change the graphics card? i.e. it is no longer soldered onto the motherboard.


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Dustin Parsons
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:58:03 am

I'm waiting too. The prospect of having to use Windows is just terrifying.


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 8:50:22 am

What amazes me most with this whole affair is how well Apple's propaganda machine along with its cute blue screen of death icons has worked with so many Mac people. The prospect of using windows seems to a lot of folks here like heaven falling.
There is so much misinformation out there with regards to stability, compatibility, potential issues, maintenance, paired with ancient myths and experience from 10 years ago, it's unreal.
After a few month of working in win7 I honestly don't want to go back to OSX. I find it as stable (if not more in mixed network environments), more flexible and overall faster... to the point where I am seriously considering ditching my private Macbook Pro for an HP Laptop.


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Steve Connor
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 8:55:09 am

[Frank Gothmann] "What amazes me most with this whole affair is how well Apple's propaganda machine along with its cute blue screen of death icons has worked with so many Mac people. T"

That's insulting our intelligence I'm afraid, suggesting people like me prefer Macs because of marketing. I know Win 7 is good and that PC boxes can be faster and cheaper, I just prefer working in an OSX environment.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 9:40:41 am

I wasn't pointing at you obviously but you cannot deny that there are a of myths floating around Mac people when faced with windos or when in a discussion about windows. Macs being more stable, more secure, easier to use, less hardware conflicts, its all just copied from the Mac, it just works etc.
You are a power user on the Mac and you would be on a windows box within a short period of time, basically because of the work that you do. It requires knowledge of certain soft- and hardware aspects that a lot of people never deal with.
I know quite a few people that are as hopeless on a Mac as they were on windows. Their windows machines were slow, cluttered, misconfigured, some stuff corrupt - which is why they switched in the first place hoping to find redemption. Looking at their Macs now a while later, they are as slow, cluttered, misconfigured and corrupt.
But just out of curiosity - what is it that you prefer in OSX compared to windows beyond just being used to it more?


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:40:08 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "But just out of curiosity - what is it that you prefer in OSX compared to windows beyond just being used to it more?"

I have an acute allergic reaction to backslashes.

(OK, that is a slight exaggeration).

But seriously, Windows is crummy in so many ways:
  • DLL Hell
  • The Registry (and the all too frequent necessity to muddle with it)
  • Drive letter assignments (instead of proper UNIX arbitrary mounting)
  • The Ribbon/Aero (talk about sloppy overwrought chrome)
  • Convoluted control panels (or bafflingly absent ones, like NTP setup)
  • Ugly screen fonts

...it just isn't UNIX!

I'm much happier in Linux or FreeBSD than I am when I have to dip into the Windows sewer. OS X has its warts (HFS+, the networking foibles you noted, and seriously lagging OpenGL support), but they'll get fixed long before any of my bullets above are dropped from Windows.

Best,
Andy


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:49:08 pm

DLL Hell: What are you doing that requires you to mess around with DLL files? I'm always in the guts of my system and rarely have to mess with this.

The Registry (and the all too frequent necessity to muddle with it): How frequently and why? I've hit up the Registry my fair share of times too, but only for special circumstances, and since Windows 7, it's incredibly rare as well.

Drive letter assignments (instead of proper UNIX arbitrary mounting): Completely agree with this. This is archaic and needs to die. I'm sure Microsoft only keeps it because it would otherwise be a huge compatibility break.

The Ribbon/Aero (talk about sloppy overwrought chrome): I don't really see this as a problem. I think Windows 7's interface is actually kind of nice.

Convoluted control panels (or bafflingly absent ones, like NTP setup): OSX's System Preferences is only marginally better IMHO, though Windows 7's customized control panel interface can make it really hard to find stuff. You can turn that off and basically make it look like OSX's though.

Ugly screen fonts: Never noticed this.


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:11:02 pm

[Gary Huff] "What are you doing that requires you to mess around with DLL files?"

Mostly just FUD on my part. It reminds me of how much legacy junk is sitting beneath the surface on Windows.

[Gary Huff] "How frequently and why? I've hit up the Registry my fair share of times too, but only for special circumstances, and since Windows 7, it's incredibly rare as well."

I don't deal with Windows unless something is broken, so it is an unfair sample. For me it is yet another reminder of how not-UNIX it is under there.

[Gary Huff] "I don't really see this as a problem. I think Windows 7's interface is actually kind of nice."



I rest my case (yes, I know that is Win8). What a cluster-f.

[Gary Huff] "Ugly screen fonts: Never noticed this."

I guess it is mostly subjective, but font rendering on OS X is anti-aliased and consistent with print, while on Windows it isn't. Take a screenshot of Wikipedia on OS X and Windows and I can tell you which OS is which just from the font rendering. OS X is the one that looks nice.

Best,
Andy


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Jason Brown
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:14:24 pm

Wow, what a lively discussion I started.


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Steve Connor
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:15:39 pm

[Jason Brown] "Wow, what a lively discussion I started."

Most discussions are lively on here, that's why it's so popular!

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Jason Brown
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:28:52 pm

Well from my perspective, I hope they don't abandon the desktop platform. I've been debating whether it was just a mental block or a real issue, and as the Vimeo link someone posted showed...it would be a real problem.

I have been a pc user my whole life until 2 years ago. I felt VERY competent in a pc environment. I have fallen in love with macosx. I'd say that I am 30-40 percent more efficient on my Mac pro than I was ever on a pc. Spotlight is amazing. From what I know about win7 the search is enhanced...but I can't imagine it's more powerful than spotlight.

I was misled when I came to Mac, the marketing hype led me to believe that they don't crash and "always work" but I've seen many times where a reboot is necessary and in some cases a reinstall. I've had to reset my smc on my MacBook pro a couple times. So they aren't infallible, but they are better (compared to win xp, IMHO)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:10:35 pm

[Jason Brown] "Wow, what a lively discussion I started."

It's our livelihoods after all! :)


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:23:42 pm

[Andrew Richards] "I rest my case (yes, I know that is Win8). What a cluster-f."

That's Microsoft Office, not Windows.


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:36:05 pm

[Gary Huff] "That's Microsoft Office, not Windows."

Nope. That's Windows Explorer in Windows 8. They are putting that train wreck of a UI on the whole OS.

Best,
Andy


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:52:38 pm

[Andrew Richards] "Mostly just FUD on my part. It reminds me of how much legacy junk is sitting beneath the surface on Windows."

DLL's are not a problem, they used to be in the past but that's long over. 99 percent of people never have to deal with them, nor with the registry.
In X you have .kext files, preference files, terminal commands - equally frightening and arcane if you have problems in certain areas.

There are quite a few people who dislike the ribbons. I am actually looking forward to it. It find shortcuts to common tasks very, very useful. Gnome Commander and Total Commander all the way for me.About the looks: I don't care about how it looks as long as it works and I am faster with it. Same for the font rendering. Quarz renders nicer, yes, but it's also a slow dog.


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Tim Wilson
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 5:04:47 pm

Agreeing with Gary and filing under the category of Your Mileage May Vary:

[Gary Huff] "The Registry (and the all too frequent necessity to muddle with it): How frequently and why? I've hit up the Registry my fair share of times too, but only for special circumstances, and since Windows 7, it's incredibly rare as well."

I've been on the command line of a Mac many, many more times than I've dug in the registry on Windows. In fact, I'm not sure I've EVER been in the registry of Windows.

[Gary Huff] "The Ribbon/Aero (talk about sloppy overwrought chrome): I don't really see this as a problem. I think Windows 7's interface is actually kind of nice."

I've grown fond of the interface as a whole too. And you can turn off the ribbon, right? I have in Word. Is there somewhere else I'm missing?


[Gary Huff] "Ugly screen fonts: Never noticed this."

The difference is in the drawing: Mac optimizes for smoothness, Windows for sharpness. Two different goals, both legit. To me, Mac fonts look fuzzy.

Ironically, what finally tipped the balance away from Mac for me after 20 years of active Windows-bashing was Fusion. Running Mac and Windows side-by-side made come to resent every moment I had to spend in the Mac OS. I couldn't stand it anymore. I haven't booted that OS in five years now, and don't miss it. Quite the contrary.

I'm not going to run down the reasons because they don't matter. It's my mileage and it varies. That's the nature of mileage. I'm also not interested in evangelizing. Like what you like. I'm just saying that I made a lot of money running a Mac-only video production shop for a very long time, having Apple machines non-stop since 1979. The switch was not only painless, but a pleasure. I can't imagine any reason I'd want to use a Mac again, not because I hate it or because Apple boo-hoo-hoo whatever. I just like what I'm using now a lot better.

And as scores of people have noted in this forum many times, the two play nicely just fine. It doesn't have to be either/or.

It's just a computer, man. Software? We kick software's ass for a living, even if it sometimes kicks ours.

Terrifying? I'll tell you what's terrifying. An iTunes update on any OS.

The real irony in all this is that I can boil the "revolutionary" aspect of Final Cut Pro down to this one thing: it was the first NLE that proved you don't need a tower to do professional Hollywood-grade work. FCP was the first seed in the destruction of the Mac Pro. FCPX is its full flowering -- a post-PC NLE, designed to run on post-PCs.

Good thing or bad thing? Your mileage will vary.


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 3:53:26 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Ironically, what finally tipped the balance away from Mac for me after 20 years of active Windows-bashing was Fusion. Running Mac and Windows side-by-side made come to resent every moment I had to spend in the Mac OS."

Just the opposite for me. Win7 in Fusion reminds me constantly that OS X is a vastly superior UX for me. Nearly everything about the Windows UX rubs me the wrong way, and though I have my complaints about OS X, I'll take it any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

So like you said, YMMV.

Best,
Andy


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David Roth Weiss
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:38:18 pm

[Steve Connor] "I know Win 7 is good and that PC boxes can be faster and cheaper, I just prefer working in an OSX environment."

There is a certain "feel" that Apple imparts and which seems to elude Microsoft. It's difficult, if not impossible, to describe, but it's often mentioned as feeling "clunky," and I think there is something to that. However, I do think Windows has improved this in ver. 7, and I hope 8 will be even better.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com
Sales | Integration | Support


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:49:31 pm

Unfortunately, I think Windows 8 is going to be a steaming pile.


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Jules bowman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 8:33:21 am

It's funny, because I prefer editing on tracks and yet according to same I'm scared of the advance of technology by thinking that. some people hey!? Just born muppets I guess.

I have no doubt some prefer the OSX environment. I currently do. But I also think the quoted point has validity in as much as there is a lot of fear based on history. I imagine a stripped out win7 environment where geek machine builders have removed the unnecessary crap from it is a stable and solid one to edit in. And I imagine that there is a chance that one would end up just as happy in it.

Personally my only fear isn't embracing a new editing paradigm, one which I think is insanely stupid because it has no tracks, but rather leaving the safety of OSX snow leopard and all the software I have built up which enables me to do what I need, not least of all QT7 Pro, which Apple bury deeper and deeper with each new release it seems.

It seems most likely a full transition from FCP7 will happen for me over the next year and to PP6 I would guess, as I'm hoping adobe add the little stuff that fcp7 had that makes editing so much easier for me..and with that transition I will seriously consider moving to a PC as I've heard a fair amount of decent feedback about the idea on here and through friends who do music and shifted.

I did recently buy an ipad3 and have to admit for lying in bed reading the web and messing around with games when I'm bored and the such it is much better than my iPhone and my zoom tablet, and I guess that's the point. Apple are now toy makers and motly good at it..remember, according the apple we are in a post PC world. Not because we are but because Apple can't be arsed to focus on anything other than iToys and they're trying to convince us through PR that that is the case. Which by the way, it isn't.

We still not in a post vinyl age let alone a post cd age so anyone who believes we are in a post pc age because swathes of the middle classes have bought iPads as coffee table toys is off the mark somewhat.

To me, the moment I realised/believed apple were no longer the Apple I loved and whom supported and aided my business was when I had to get a n monitor and their 24" one, which replaced the beautiful 23" ones, came with no off button.... And did so because it turns itself off when you turn your mac off, whereas I leave my mac on doing stuff whilst I turn my monitor off so it doesn't t glow at me whilst I'm doing other things. At this moment I saw apple thinking consumers turn their macs off when they are finished doing email and dicking around on Facebook so who needs an on / off button. Not consumers.

apple, for all their ability, are now just a toy company to all intents and purposes. Which is fine. But what really irks is that the richest company in the world could, without batting an eyelid, have retained a small core pro apps department and developed and sold FCS and ProMacs at break even in terms of finances and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to them. In fact they'd have employed more people so as well as keeping all the creatives who have gone a long way to evolving the 'cool' perception consumers have had about apple on board with the apple brand and happy with apple, they'd have been doing something positive for the American economy by reducing unemployment. And this little department wouldn't have stopped them raking in the cash on their iToys.

That is what p!sses me off the most about this whole fcp10 debacle. Is that they showed no respect for their past and shat on those that were there for them when they needed them.

And just because the sole purpose for a company is to pay shareholders dividends doesn't mean they have to be arseholes. I believe you can make money and be thoughtful at the same time.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 1:23:43 pm

[Jules bowman] "Personally my only fear isn't embracing a new editing paradigm, one which I think is insanely stupid because it has no tracks, but rather leaving the safety of OSX snow leopard and all the software I have built up which enables me to do what I need, not least of all QT7 Pro, which Apple bury deeper and deeper with each new release it seems."

Sticking with OSX and macs doesn't mean you have to edit on FCPX.

There are track based editors that are not FCP7.


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Jules bowman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 1:31:58 pm

I'm confused by your reply. it's kind of obvious that there are other options other than FC10, and I stated in my very next paragraph that I was considering CS6.

And my point as a whole there was one about switching from OSX to Windows being daunting when i feel 'safe' in OSX because being 'safe' and 'familiar' with OSX doesn't mean that it is better than Windows for my, and others, needs... but one part of it is that at the moment the thought of trying to replace all the little bits of software with Windows equivalents is off putting in itself.

So I don't really get the point of your post. Sorry.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 1:46:11 pm

It seems to me you were saying OSX = trackless timeline and FCPX.

Apple = toy maker.

You then said adobe and windows.

Perhaps I misunderstood.


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Jules bowman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 1:56:50 pm

ah, fair enough. No, wasn't being that black and white. I do see Apple as toy makers these days, yes, and rather good at it they are too. But my point was more about Windows versus OSX which I am interested in because I like OSX to a degree but mostly am 'settled' in it and to me that 'settling' hinders me from transferring over to Windows when it may be better all round (cheaper machines with more power, more easy to change them, apparently Premier runs better in Windows, not at the mercy of Apple and their obsession with secrecy and a 'post-PC' world in which most of us don't actually live, etc etc.)

At the same time I know that there is more available than FC10 on Apple, but it seems even with PP I am limited in the graphics cards available that I would need to benefit from it on a Mac. I guess i'm just getting a tad tired with having Apple want to do everything for me and limiting all my choices. And I'll never forget and forgive the EOL of what was fundamentally very good and much loved software, because yes, it is going to waste a lot of my time when I switch to something else... time i'd rather have spent sat on my arse on the Heath in the sunshine if truth be told, and it all feels like it could have been very avoidable, as i touched on at the end of my original post.

I'm experimenting with PP5.5 at the moment and I truly hope adobe pull a rabbit out of the hat because at the moment it is making me miss FCP even more (yes, I still use 7 but that point is redundant going forward) by being frustrating in many ways where FCP7 seemed simple. Still, I don't blame Adobe for that as I still blame Apple for even making me have to try and learn PP :)

Silly silly multi-national corporation. Silly.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 7, 2012 at 8:21:32 pm

[Jules bowman] "I'm experimenting with PP5.5 at the moment and I truly hope adobe pull a rabbit out of the hat because at the moment it is making me miss FCP even more (yes, I still use 7 but that point is redundant going forward) by being frustrating in many ways where FCP7 seemed simple."

Jules, we've put a lot of energy into making FCP editors happy but at the same time not stray from our own vision of what makes the best NLE ever. In the end, some people will not like our latest version because of something we didn't do (like FCP7) that is critical to them. Our hope and always our goal is to make the best software for the most people and then listen on where we can make it better the next time.

Time will tell us if we were able to meet your needs. Also, don't forget to always file your feature requests here: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Dennis - Adobe guy...


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Jules bowman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 7, 2012 at 9:02:05 pm

Hey Dennis.

Thanks for the gee-up :) I'm very aware Adobe are taking the opportunity here to try and accommodate those of us who weren't on board with you before... which is admirable of you given you don't owe us anything really. And I appreciate you still have your own vision for PP. And as I said, i'm going to have a proper look when it comes out.

In fact I was talking with a friend/collaborator about this today and said to him when it comes out i'm going to allocate a week to solely sitting down and working with CS6. I tried learning whilst doing a music video which was quite complicated in terms of what we are trying to do and it was the wrong project to jump in with because i simply don't know enough of what I am doing in PP and i felt like someone had removed one of my hands and tied the other behind my back when all i wanted to do was focus on the edit.

So PP will definitely get a real shout. I mean the fact you have a Save As option puts you head and shoulders above the 'other' offering as far as i'm concerned :) Oh, and I know they are antiquated and some may say redundant in this brave new editing world we have been shown, but you have tracks too. Go on! Get out of here! Tracks! Who'd have thought?

I will go over to the feature/feedback area after playing with CS6. I don't feel I have used 5.5 enough to make comments as some may already be there just hidden, but off the top of my head things that really frustrated me were (and this is more for your curiosity I guess):

* I do hope you have a keyboard layout/map for allocating keystroke shortcuts: that list is a bit... hmmm

*There's a shortcut which allows you to cut through all tracks at once whilst you're playing in the timeline, but it stops the playhead when you hit it, which makes adding cuts to the beat on a whole track frustrating as i keep having to hit play again, whereas in FCP i can just play through the timeline and cut all tracks where i want. So I hope that changes :)

* I do hope your copy and paste attributes ends up as evolved as FCP (as in selecting which area of attributes I want pasted) and I can allocate the Q, W, E keys to copy, paste and remove attributes respectively as that is a huge time saver for me.

* I couldn't find it though it must be there but i have made the f5 and f6 keys my lock all video tracks and lock all audio tracks so i can lock all of one so it won't bring the bit i don't want when i drag into the timeline. Also, sometimes i want to delete all the audio from a series of clips and for me it is easier to hit f5 (lock video) and just delete all the audio in one go.

In fact, i'm sure this is in there so if anyone actually knows and can point it out that'd be great. Google didn't throw up a solution for that though i was probably asking it the wrong thing.

So yes, thanks for the reply and yes I am looking forward to it, and I do want to get on with it as I am aware from what people have said that it kicks arse within its backend, but for me at least editing in FCP was so very simple and intuitive and logical and sensible to the point where I am currently remaining with FCP7 despite it being 32 bit because it is so intuitive. And perhaps the things I would like and need in PP aren't necessarily what others would want or need because of the way I edit, i guess, so i'm willing to wait and see what you've done before piping up in depth.

I am aware that others would watch how I edit and possibly scratch their heads, but it works for me (eg: i have never used multi-cam in FCP because when i do 5 or 6 camera edits i like laying each on a track and reducing each to 35% and then using the cut all shortcut to cut where i want and I remove the cameras i don't want. I would hazard a guess that that seems almost masochistic to some, but i like it and it works for me, so I do it that way :)

So, we shall see, but I am very much looking forward to it, which is nice given the last year.

Oh, and as an aside to the FC10 or not debate and the Mac vs PC debate, Simon and I were both saying today we are undecided but very much considering moving our work to PCs - I edit and build websites, he does graphic design and motion animation - and keeping our macs for our playtime and web browsing, emails, downloads etc. The third of our team, Pete - audio - has already made that jump and is very happy with his geek made PC. Very very happy in fact.

We don't believe we are in a post PC world, but it is obvious Apple do, so we are thinking that given we are going to be using computers for many years to come it is probably sensible to be on a platform that is going to support computer users.

I mean does anyone who is serious about editing, or graphic design, or motion animation, or even writing docs longer than 2 paragraphs really want to do it on a tablet? Really? I can barely get to the end of an email on a tablet without losing the will to live and the thought of trying to be pixel accurate with my finger or swipes of my fingers beggars belief. For us we have accepted Apple like being toy makers and selling to consumers. Sure, their toys are great: I am loving the iPad 3 versus my motorola Xoom, but, well.... there's more to our use of technology than playing :)


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Steve Connor
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 8, 2012 at 4:33:47 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "Jules, we've put a lot of energy into making FCP editors happy but at the same time not stray from our own vision of what makes the best NLE ever"

Good, bowing to all the demands from disenfranchised FCP editors shouldn't distract the Company too much from where it's going.


[Dennis Radeke] "In the end, some people will not like our latest version because of something we didn't do (like FCP7) that is critical to them"

Nothing you could ever produce would stop Editors from moaning about something!

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Herb Sevush
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 1:32:36 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Sticking with OSX and macs doesn't mean you have to edit on FCPX. "

Yes, you can stay with OSX as long as you don't need PCIe, multiple processors, expanded memory, or a cuda enabled video card.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 1:41:52 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Yes, you can stay with OSX as long as you don't need PCIe, multiple processors, expanded memory, or a cuda enabled video card."

Huh?


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 2:22:54 pm

He's referring to using anything else other than a MacPro, which if it doesn't get refreshed, is going to slip even more behind the current generation technology.

For some reason, in the last two posts I've read of yours, you seem unable pick up on people's points, even when it's been explained to you.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 3:14:44 pm

[Gary Huff] "He's referring to using anything else other than a MacPro, which if it doesn't get refreshed, is going to slip even more behind the current generation technology.

For some reason, in the last two posts I've read of yours, you seem unable pick up on people's points, even when it's been explained to you.
"


It's quite obvious I'm a fool. In dealing with online interactions, subtleties are lost as there is no visual feedback. Non verbal communication informs much of a conversation, therefore humor and exaggeration are often lost in text, unless of course you take the time to explain your facial contortions, use a nonverbal proxy in the form of an emoticon, or surround a word in asterisks to make it blatantly obvious to us simpletons your full emotinal intent, *hint*. I can then relate to you via described non verbal communication, through words.

I also found Herb's post to be simply untrue, hence my confusion. If there was a joke, I missed it, sorry.

The MacPro is still on sale.

Jeremy


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Herb Sevush
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 3:43:37 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] " unless of course you take the time to explain your facial contortions, use a nonverbal proxy in the form of an emoticon, or surround a word in asterisks to make it blatantly obvious"

While a little OT, although "off-topic" might be a possible new name for this forum, I'd like to quibble with this.

For hundreds of years people have communicated solely thru the written word without the use of emoticons or asterisks, often to people they have never met in person. They wrote on paper and they often called this type of correspondence a letter, named I suppose after the symbols of the alphabet. Often the letters were witty and full of humor and one wonders how it was possible to understand them without seeing the writers face, or a symbol thereof. Perhaps the thickness of the ink clued the reader in to the emotional state of the writer. Or perhaps these "letters" (they did use parentheses) were better written. It's a mystery.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Herb's post to be simply untrue, hence my confusion. If there was a joke, I missed it, sorry. The MacPro is still on sale. "

What was untrue?
There was no joke.

Yes the MacPro is still on sale, but, as per this thread, probably not for too long. If you need any of the items I mentioned previously for your post workflow then, while OSX may be perfectly keen, the hardware necessary for that workflow will soon be gone. Investing in the purchase of a dying ecosystem does not make that much sense, talking as someone who might have to buy a used MacPro in the next 2 months. If PPro comes out with a way to directly read FCP projects I can avoid buying one of these zombie boxes, otherwise I'm stuck pissing my money away for a short term need. No joke indeed.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 4:02:08 pm

[Herb Sevush] "For hundreds of years people have communicated solely thru the written word without the use of emoticons or asterisks, often to people they have never met in person. They wrote on paper and they often called this type of correspondence a letter, named I suppose after the symbols of the alphabet. Often the letters were witty and full of humor and one wonders how it was possible to understand them without seeing the writers face, or a symbol thereof. Perhaps the thickness of the ink clued the reader in to the emotional state of the writer. Or perhaps these "letters" (they did use parentheses) were better written. It's a mystery. "

When you had to send a messenger across land to send a note, I'm sure the descriptors were much more clear than in these limited word "posts" we have today.

Perspective can be described.

[Herb Sevush] "Yes the MacPro is still on sale, but, as per this thread, probably not for too long. If you need any of the items I mentioned previously for your post workflow then, while OSX may be perfectly keen, the hardware necessary for that workflow will soon be gone. Investing in the purchase of a dying ecosystem does not make that much sense, talking as someone who might have to buy a used MacPro in the next 2 months. If PPro comes out with a way to directly read FCP projects I can avoid buying one of these zombie boxes, otherwise I'm stuck pissing my money away for a short term need. No joke indeed."

I guess I see it differently. CUDA is available on the Mac, and if you look at Nvidia's recent driver updates for 10.7.3, it seems they are actively supporting it, which seems to be sort of a newish venture for them.

I don't see this as being over. Perhaps you do. My guess is that we will know something soon. Apple is not one to wait around for no reason. I prefer to look at tea leaves and take the positive from it. I believe Shane, and I believe his reliable sources, but I don't think it's going to be a complete cut and run situation. Apple would have cut already, which is why I linked the Xserve document. As Craig said, perhaps we won't like the "alternative" MacPro or whatever form factor it's going to be. Perhaps there's a chance Apple will license OSX to certain manufacturers to run on something other than Apple manufacturers hardware. That's a long shot, admittedly. We haven't heard anything officially, so I can't make any official decisions. We are still running fcs3 and will probably continue to do so for a while yet.

Other's in the shop are not looking forward to a switch to Windows either, and I guess we are lucky to have the luxury to rest on our laurels. Our network, SAN and otherwise, could be swapped to Windows fairly easily in terms of swapping CPUs. All of our hardware is cross platform, we would have pick new a new NLE and color grading system, but the rest of our content creation tools have widows versions right now, today. Also, NAB is right around the corner, so perhaps there'll be news that will push us in some sort of a direction. For now, we don't have to move.

We will have to keep a Mac around for legacy transfers, of course.

Jeremy


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Herb Sevush
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 4:29:45 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] " As Craig said, perhaps we won't like the "alternative" MacPro or whatever form factor it's going to be. Perhaps there's a chance Apple will license OSX to certain manufacturers to run on something other than Apple manufacturers hardware. That's a long shot, admittedly. We haven't heard anything officially, so I can't make any official decisions."

Aye, there's the rub, nobody's heard anything official but we still have to allocate resources and plan. That's why threads like this one get started. I don't really care about the form factor, if Tbolt can handle the I/O for my raid and blackmagic card, the GPU is something like a Quadro 4000 and I can add 24meg of Ram, the box can look like a turtle and quack like a duck and I'll still buy it.

The idea of Apple licensing out to manufacturers is a pipe dream -- and I'd like a hit off that pipe. Even if Apple comes out with a high end revised system after June it will be too late for me, I will have committed my budget elsewhere and will be long gone. I don't think I'm alone in that either, NAB is a deadline for a lot of people.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 4:44:27 pm

[Herb Sevush] ". I don't think I'm alone in that either, NAB is a deadline for a lot of people."

Rumor has it that Apple is going to take over the "FCPX it Not" mini meet.

Should be interesting!

Can't forget this: :-D


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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 5:13:02 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Even if Apple comes out with a high end revised system after June it will be too late for me, I will have committed my budget elsewhere and will be long gone. I don't think I'm alone in that either, NAB is a deadline for a lot of people.
"


I think that's a good deadline. I just bought what may be my last Mac--17" Macbook Pro--based on the notion that I WILL be migrating back to Windows for much of my editorial, but that I'm currently ensconced where I am by factors beyond my control. I see that changing over the Summer and into the Fall as various clients, allies, and co-workers adjust themselves. A lot of these people are looking at NAB as a deadline, as well.

I'm at a point where I would be happy if no new Mac Pro comes out in the next few weeks, and for that matter, into the summer. I think it would be a reasonably clear signal, and some of the change that needs to take place might begin.

Personally, I just don't think that Apple is in this business anymore. I just don't see any good argument for it, and many, many arguments against it.

On a personal note, I've been enjoying the recent iteration of the Apple TV and the new iPad. I really like my iPhone (other than I wish it were a slightly better phone.) And, I can see keeping my personal computers/laptops in the OS X world, too. I don't have to completely move from the platform.


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Jason Brown
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 8:25:05 pm

So kind of timely...I got a creative cow advertisement for promax.

What r ur thoughts? Anyone use this? Suggest? Warn against?

I appreciate all the discussion, but I don't feel much closer to a decision. As shane says, I should buy a 12 core. But I can't imagine that apple would introduce thunderbolt with the intention of abandoning the desktop market. It seems u would want a high powered computer to push a high power connection.

Hmm...well, I guess we will have to wait and see (or not see)

I guess in the eyes of all u pros, what is the longest I should wait if it's not urgent. I have the opportunity to get a new system now, but don't HAVE to get one. When would it be do or die for apple to get something out? If not a "Mac pro" then a possible replacement?


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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 11:05:16 pm

[Jason Brown] "So kind of timely...I got a creative cow advertisement for promax.

What r ur thoughts? Anyone use this? Suggest? Warn against?
"


Promax is a well-known, often used company by many folks here in LA. I haven't really looked at the machine they are touting, so I can't say anything about it. When I eventually go to a PC workstation, it will probably be one of the HPs, though I would also consider some of the Avid-approved Dells. That's just me.

[Jason Brown] "what is the longest I should wait if it's not urgent. I have the opportunity to get a new system now, but don't HAVE to get one. When would it be do or die for apple to get something out? If not a "Mac pro" then a possible replacement?
"


A lot of that, of course, depends on what you plan on using on it. If Avid, you might want to peruse the approved models on their web page. If Adobe, you should probably pay attention to getting the right gfx card. Luckily, there is much overlap between the two, so you can get a fine machine for both. As to when, who knows? That's a decision only you can make, based on your needs. There is no "do or die."


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David Roth Weiss
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 7, 2012 at 4:15:39 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Promax is a well-known, often used company by many folks here in LA. I haven't really looked at the machine they are touting, so I can't say anything about it."

Well Chris, we'll have to rectify that - how about a personal guided tour of the ProMAX ONE by yours truly in the convenient ProMAX Burbank office?

[Chris Harlan] "When I eventually go to a PC workstation, it will probably be one of the HPs, though I would also consider some of the Avid-approved Dells. That's just me."

Maybe? Maybe not... Don't rush to make that purchase just yet. :)

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com
Sales | Integration | Support


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 7, 2012 at 4:21:11 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "[Chris Harlan] "Promax is a well-known, often used company by many folks here in LA. I haven't really looked at the machine they are touting, so I can't say anything about it."

Well Chris, we'll have to rectify that - how about a personal guided tour of the ProMAX ONE by yours truly in the convenient ProMAX Burbank office?
"


I'd be delighted.

[David Roth Weiss] "[Chris Harlan] "When I eventually go to a PC workstation, it will probably be one of the HPs, though I would also consider some of the Avid-approved Dells. That's just me."

Maybe? Maybe not... Don't rush to make that purchase just yet. :)
"


Fair enough. I promise to include it in my prospective machines.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 7, 2012 at 4:25:21 pm

[Chris Harlan] "I'd be delighted."

Are you hitting NAB? If so, let's set up a time to gab there and see the ONE. If not, ProMAX Burbank will be the spot.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com
Sales | Integration | Support


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 7, 2012 at 4:31:10 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Are you hitting NAB? If so, let's set up a time to gab there and see the ONE. If not, ProMAX Burbank will be the spot.
"


Ain't decided yet, but its running toward not.


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TImothy Auld
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 8:46:53 pm

Sad though it may be I think you're right, Chris. They just don't seem to be in the mainstream of this business any longer. They do have a past reputation for coming out of nowhere and blowing other companies out of the water but I am really not feeling that this year. None of the broadcast/film publications that I read even mention FCPX (or Apple for that matter) even in passing. I think they are being foolish as a company with regard to this small but influential market. But, as my colleagues often point out, this is not the first time they have not listened to me. On the other hand they have amassed hundreds of billions of dollars in cash while not listening to me. From a business standpoint that is hard to argue with.

Tim


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 9:25:44 pm

[TImothy Auld] "None of the broadcast/film publications that I read even mention FCPX (or Apple for that matter) even in passing."

http://www.4rfv.co.uk/industrynews.asp?id=141719

Apple’s so called game changing editing software Final Cut Pro X was nowhere to be seen at this years BVE apart from one stand and the Post Production Room, but boy did it generate some in interest.

Soho Editors Training’s seminar, FCP X: Professional Solutions was standing room only for the entire 3 days of the show as Final Cut Pro X was demonstrated fitting into a professional workflow, and a lot of the myths about the software were busted wide open. It also nicely coincided with a new Apple update of the software which included some big additions.




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TImothy Auld
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 9:37:19 pm

Admittedly I do not read UK journals. Perhaps I should. The class citation is anecdotal at best. Show me something in TV Technology. Or any other publication reporting on what's happening at NAB. Anyway, like Woodward, Bernstein and Bradlee, I stand by my story.

Tim


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 10:10:52 pm

Apple has nothing to do with NAB so there'd be nothing to report. The "action" if any will be from the developers but I'm not sure what one might expect beyond a growing number of Thunderbolt peripherals which aren't specific to FCPX and plugins which are and, with FCPX 10.0.3, the major ones are out already (although there might be more on the way).

Plugins like Red Giant Magic Bullet were announced months in advance (of Apple fixing their issues).
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/red-giant-to-support-apple-fcpx/209488

and FCPX update covered.
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/apple-hears-updates-final-cut-pro-x-wit...

and plugin announcements which include FCPX support at creative planet (DV Magazine, Videography - but who's website has to be one of the worst in this trade for the 21st Century)

http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/dv/reviews/review-red-giant-software-m...

http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/dv/reviews/review-genarts-sapphire-edg...



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TImothy Auld
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 11:00:06 pm

Craig, really. Apple has nothing to do with NAB so there's nothing to report? Yes, Apple has nothing to do with NAB any longer. They don''t have anything to do with NAB because they do not want to have anything to do with NAB. It is Apple's choice, not NAB's. Just as it is Apple's choice not to publicly ally itself with any broadcast or film workflow. If they chose to do so then that would be big news. What third parties do in the vacuum that is FCPX is of no consequence. As I said they are, in my opinion, out of this business. Nothing but direct action from Apple would convince me otherwise. So let's talk again in a the next couple of weeks. That should tell everyone a lot.

Tim


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 11:15:07 pm

Your logic is circular. Apple is not at NAB so there's not likely to be any specific Apple coverage baring third party announcements or a tangential announcement.

There's certainly coverage of FCPX in the various trades. Third parties with professional plugins and peripherals are supporting FCPX. There's not going to be any major broadcast coverage until such time as some facility uses FCPX in that environment and undertakes marketing/press regarding such use.



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TImothy Auld
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 11:26:38 pm

There is no logic there to run a circuit. There are only observations. If there is coverage in the trades other than puff pieces (and, yes I read your links) I have not seen it. And if Apple had the slightest interest in high end post markets then they would be, in my opinion, making the most of the marketing opportunities in advance of the biggest production/post production show in the world. Don't you think?
And if you do see a logic in my posts that you deem to be circular then I have to say that yours seems to me to be flat out byzantine.

Tim


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 11:29:23 am

[Frank Gothmann] "to the point where I am seriously considering ditching my private Macbook Pro for an HP Laptop."

That's awesome for you, Frank. Glad you're finding life after Apple.

Some people still prefer OSX. I do. We have two machines running windows. OSX is easier (for me) to support and maintain.

We have a networked system that needs uptime and easy disaster recovery becuase sh*t happens and no one is perfect.

We rely on the Internet to move our business forward and maintain client communication. There's no way that any of our machines can't be connected.

I'm glad that windows is working for you, but Apple's iPad marketing has no impact on our decision to run OSX. Although, windows blue screens are not as pretty.

I hope Apple licenses OSX to a desktop manufacturer, but unfortunately I just don't see them giving up that much control.

Jeremy


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:00:12 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Some people still prefer OSX. I do. We have two machines running windows. OSX is easier (for me) to support and maintain. "

And that's just fine. I was just referring to the statement above that the idea of moving to windows is "terrifying". I am certain you wouldn't see it that way if push comes to shove. Windows is not going to burn your house down or eat your children, its an evolved OS just like X or any Linux flavor. With certain advantages, disadvantages, good interface design and bad, bugs and whatnot. There isn't that much difference in terms of quality between OSes anymore, just in approach and concepts maybe. And if you or anybody else makes whatever decision based on that plus your professional requirements rather than "fear" I won't argue for a second.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:14:02 pm

Could I figure out Windows? No question.

But, fear is a hell of a motivator. Fight or flight.

I can understand if people don't want to switch. It would double my already busy workload. I would not look forward to it.

What I do like about Macs is that you can run both OSes on the same machine. Sure, not in an ideal windows config, but you can't do that on an HP. ;)

Jeremy


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:21:12 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "What I do like about Macs is that you can run both OSes on the same machine. Sure, not in an ideal windows config, but you can't do that on an HP. ;)"

True, although you could turn it into a hackintosh. Not ideal, but can be done. In any case, the roadblocks aren't exactly HP's fault, no?
"Fight or flight"... I don't think it has to be any of those two. That's exactly my point.

I just wonder if people would feel equally frightened at the prospect of a switch to a Linux based OS.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:36:30 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "True, although you could turn it into a hackintosh. Not ideal, but can be done"

Have you tried this? This would be the worst situation of them all. At least Bootcamp is a supported venture.

[Frank Gothmann] "I just wonder if people would feel equally frightened at the prospect of a switch to a Linux based OS."

Linux doesn't have the history/baggage of Windows or MacOS. I would think that people would be more intrigued than "frightened" especially when it's such a "DIY" culture. Plus, none of the most ubiquitous NLEs run on Linux.

I'm sure if certain companies saw a demand, they'd do it, but is there a demand?


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:58:56 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] Have you tried this? This would be the worst situation of them all. At least Bootcamp is a supported venture.

Have you? It used to be a huge PITA, but now it's quite streamlined, and given the new unified NVIDIA driver architecture for OSX, seems like it's getting easier.

However, you can't just go out and purchase an pre-built machine. That's fraught with potential difficulties. The best chance of success is to find components that are most compatible, and there are some great resources for helping you do just that.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:24:43 pm

[Gary Huff] "Have you? It used to be a huge PITA, but now it's quite streamlined, and given the new unified NVIDIA driver architecture for OSX, seems like it's getting easier."

Heck no.

It's hard enough to get work done, and to do that without having a supported and warrantied machine to look after? Not my style.

If the switch to windows is in the cards, it will be with a supported company that has a phone number that I can call when the computer has a bad day.

[Gary Huff] "The best chance of success is to find components that are most compatible, and there are some great resources for helping you do just that."

I'm sorry, but there's just no way that I'd even think of it.

Jeremy


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:25:51 pm

The fact that you're scared to do it doesn't mean that others might not be interested.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:38:37 pm

[Gary Huff] "The fact that you're scared to do it doesn't mean that others might not be interested.
"


Scared? No.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

I'd do it on a home machine, but not in our SAN tied production environment.


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:59:21 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Have you tried this? This would be the worst situation of them all. At least Bootcamp is a supported venture."

No, but then again I am happy with win7 and moving away from anything Apple so I haven't really looked the odds and ends.
However, due to the legal situation in Europe, you can buy legit Hackintoshes in Germany for example.
It's mainly small companies offering them, not too many, but they do offer support for those machines. Eg: (http://pearc.de/).

[Jeremy Garchow] "Linux doesn't have the history/baggage of Windows or MacOS. I would think that people would be more intrigued than "frightened" especially when it's such a "DIY" culture. Plus, none of the most ubiquitous NLEs run on Linux. "

True, but most compositing, color correction and restoration tools have a very strong standing and background on Linux. There was a time when almost none of them were available on the Mac in the old PPC days, prior to Apple buying Shake. That situation might reocurre if Mac towers fall and strong gpus are not an option.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:35:14 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "However, due to the legal situation in Europe, you can buy legit Hackintoshes in Germany for example.
It's mainly small companies offering them, not too many, but they do offer support for those machines. Eg: (http://pearc.de/)."


I hope Apple takes a cue, and does this for the rest of the world. I am glad that other countries are forcing Apple to play fair. I read the other day about how Apple has to offer 2-year warranties on iDevices in certain places.

[Frank Gothmann] "True, but most compositing, color correction and restoration tools have a very strong standing and background on Linux. There was a time when almost none of them were available on the Mac in the old PPC days, prior to Apple buying Shake. That situation might reocurre if Mac towers fall and strong gpus are not an option."

I understand, but now Linux doesn't help us editing types, especially in mixed computer environs.

Just curious, but what GPU did you buy for your PC?


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:47:03 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Just curious, but what GPU did you buy for your PC?"

It was the HP config with the Quadro 4000 preinstalled. We will probably get a z820 with a Quadro 6000 in summer as I intend to do all of my 2k PFClean work on this machine and it likes Cuda plus there are those Quadro SDI output options.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:06:38 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "It was the HP config with the Quadro 4000 preinstalled. We will probably get a z820 with a Quadro 6000 in summer as I intend to do all of my 2k PFClean work on this machine and it likes Cuda plus there are those Quadro SDI output options."

And that's the thing. When you start talking serious beef with GPUs, the prices sky rocket.

Case in point:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=836959&Q=&is=REG&A=d...

Is this the way of "the future"? If so, we are going to need to really try and tell these clients that the budgets need to stop shrinking, and grow, like now. I wonder how that's going to work out?

Jeremy


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:23:08 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "And that's the thing. When you start talking serious beef with GPUs, the prices sky rocket."

It is a costly card, but you'll be just fine with a Quadro 4000 for editing and the cost of the HP together with the Q4000 was cheaper (although just a little bit) then the current Macpro. Also, you can always go with the non Quadro Nvidia cards like the GTX 680 which is really bargain giving it's power.
As to the Quadra 6000, I would not consider it for an NLE workstation. The Quadro 4000 will work just fine. Also, it looks as if my primary NLE will be Edius which mostly is CUDA ignorant. The Quadro 4000 will come handy for Premier CS6, AE etc. though.
It's really heavy image processing stuff where the price/performance point of a Q6000 makes economic sense and it's also those areas where the pay for a couple of jobs justifies such investments.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:10:16 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "The Quadro 4000 will work just fine."

Which works in a Mac today, by the way. It's one of the few cards that's accepted, along with these: http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda-mac-driver.html

I guess, from my perspective, if we went all windows, it's certainly not going to be much cheaper. It is true that PCs have different levels of CPU in the i7s and such that can get wrapped in a much more configurable solution than an iMac or MacBookPro, but once you get up to the bigger procs, things even out pretty quickly, despite the PCs having a bit more card slot flexibility.

[Frank Gothmann] "It's really heavy image processing stuff where the price/performance point of a Q6000 makes economic sense "

Don't you know this is an FCPX or Other NLEs forum? Heavy image processing....pffff. :)

Jeremy


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:29:47 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I guess, from my perspective, if we went all windows, it's certainly not going to be much cheaper. It is true that PCs have different levels of CPU in the i7s and such that can get wrapped in a much more configurable solution than an iMac or MacBookPro, but once you get up to the bigger procs, things even out pretty quickly, despite the PCs having a bit more card slot flexibility."

Agreed, but I never said a high-end workstation, unless self-built, will be that much cheaper. You have much more options on the hardware side and things will be cheaper if you need special purpose machines such as little servers, NAS boxes, mid-level workstations or render nodes; also some peripherals will be cheaper.
Machine upgrades is also where you can save money, and quite significantly. New mainboard, processor, off you go. With an iMac and even Macpros it essentially is what it is. New processor means new machine.
The Q4000 for the Mac will most likely disappear if the Macpro goes, don't you think?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:37:02 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "The Q4000 for the Mac will most likely disappear if the Macpro goes, don't you think?"

It will be developed strictly for the Hackintosh crowd. Right? ;)

[Frank Gothmann] "Machine upgrades is also where you can save money, and quite significantly. New mainboard, processor, off you go."

But do you do that with something like an HP z800 or do you just buy a new z800? I am not interested in building our own machines. No thanks, I have enough to do.

Jeremy


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:46:46 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I am not interested in building our own machines. No thanks, I have enough to do."

That's fine. It may not be cheaper for you, but for those of us (like me) who can easily do so, it will be cheaper.


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:57:48 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "But do you do that with something like an HP z800 or do you just buy a new z800? I am not interested in building our own machines. No thanks, I have enough to do."

I am not sure I would do it with the z800s. The main cost factor of a machine like that are the cpus and gpus and you may end up paying almost as much as a new machine. It's different with smaller machines or special purpose boxes though.
I have built four linux servers myself and I would always go that way. It saved me almost 10.000 dollars with one of our shared storage servers which is in use now for almost 2 years. That's a cost saving where it clearly makes sense to do things yourself. Earlier this year I changed the mainboard (to have more slots) and cpu. Downtime was 20 minutes and the machine is ready to accept four new client machines now without any modification to the OS.


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 5:01:35 pm

Which version of Linux are you using?


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 5:06:42 pm

[Gary Huff] "Which version of Linux are you using?"

Ubuntu Server 10.04 LTS for the shared storage.


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Herb Sevush
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:47:31 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "After a few month of working in win7 I honestly don't want to go back to OSX. I find it as stable (if not more in mixed network environments), more flexible and overall faster... to the point where I am seriously considering ditching my private Macbook Pro for an HP Laptop."

From the point of view of a wintel person who bought his first mac 7 years ago for FCP studio I will give a few reasons why I'm hoping Apple comes out with an upgrade (and soon.)

Networking is much. much easier in OSX. I have a mixed network of Macs and PCs and I'm forever having network problems on the PC side. Everything about setting up and maintaining a network seems easier in OSX. You can take into consideration that I'm a network moron, for anything complex I have to get outside help.

ProRes. Many of my deliverable are in ProRes and there's no good way to encode it on a PC that I'm aware of. I'm hoping, hard, that either someone comes out with a good, reliable PC ProRes encoder or that the market opens up to other deliverables (DNxHD ??) but for the moment I'm shackled to OSX.

On another note, after getting my first Mac Pro I switched my home computer to a Mac Mini. After a few years I switched back to a PC notebook, basically because of the better software available. If you've ever used Quicken, the difference between the Mac version and the Windows version alone would make the switch back to Windows worth it. As is often the case with Apple products OSX is simpler to use, but the price of simplicity is that it's often much more limited in scope. So is it simple or simple minded? Are PCs complex or over complicated?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:08:30 pm

[Herb Sevush] Many of my deliverable are in ProRes and there's no good way to encode it on a PC that I'm aware of. I'm hoping, hard, that either someone comes out with a good, reliable PC ProRes encoder or that the market opens up to other deliverables (DNxHD ??) but for the moment I'm shackled to OSX.

This is Apple's fault. They finally included the ProRes codecs in QuickTime 7 (Win) in 2008, but only for decoding. You could easily encode to ProRes if they'd open it up in QuickTime, but so far that functionality remains locked.

Wikipedia has some information about third-party software that can encode ProRes on Windows. You can also do it for free using 5DtoRGB for Windows.


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Herb Sevush
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:17:12 pm

[Gary Huff] "This is Apple's fault."

It seems more like a marketing decision, and it's working, at least in my case.

[Gary Huff] "Wikipedia has some information about third-party software that can encode ProRes on Windows. You can also do it for free using 5DtoRGB for Windows."

Reliability and ease are key for me. If I'm switching to PPro on a windows machine I want to be able to encode either from within PPro or AME - I'm not messing up my workflow by editing in ProRes then exporting in something else only to have to re-encode in ProRes. Life is hard enough.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:19:57 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Reliability and ease are key for me. If I'm switching to PPro on a windows machine I want to be able to encode either from within PPro or AME"

And that is solely Apple's fault. Premiere is required to utilize QuickTime 7 to encode QuickTime files under Windows (outside of writing in the functionality from scratch), and until Apple allows encoding to ProRes using QuickTime 7, it's a no-go.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:53:56 pm

[Gary Huff] "And that is solely Apple's fault. Premiere is required to utilize QuickTime 7 to encode QuickTime files under Windows (outside of writing in the functionality from scratch), and until Apple allows encoding to ProRes using QuickTime 7, it's a no-go."

That's not entirely true. At a high level, we want to avoid QT wherever possible in order to stay away from a 32-bit architecture. For example, we do not use QT player to decode H.264 in a .MOV wrapper but rather work around it to provide 64-bit performance.

Where we have to use QT is when there are propietary codecs such as ProRes where we must use QT. Even then, our performance is pretty robust.

Hope this helps,
Dennis - Adobe


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Jason J Rodriguez
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:15:28 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Many of my deliverable are in ProRes and there's no good way to encode it on a PC that I'm aware of. "

FFMPEG now supports ProRes 422 encoding and decoding on all platforms (OSX, PC, Linux).

Jason Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA


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Herb Sevush
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:24:06 pm

[Jason J Rodriguez] "FFMPEG now supports ProRes 422 encoding and decoding on all platforms (OSX, PC, Linux)."

As I just posted elsewhere I need to encode from within editing software, otherwise the encoding re-encoding steps kill my workflow.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Frank Gothmann
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:19:21 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Networking is much. much easier in OSX. I have a mixed network of Macs and PCs and I'm forever having network problems on the PC side. Everything about setting up and maintaining a network seems easier in OSX. You can take into consideration that I'm a network moron, for anything complex I have to get outside help."

My experience is the exact opposite. I find networking with OSX a disaster zone, burnt earth (which is a shame because it is unix based). The network stack is buggy, making it work smooth with Netatalk on the Linux side needs lots of tweaking and it has some bugs, NFS is bad and requires tweaking, Samba isn't smooth (when it was still part of x), iscsi doesn't exist out of the box and requires a free tool from one vendor. On the other hand, our Linux severs and windows machines communicate without any issues right out of the box.

Prores: agreed. But that's not windows fault but because Apple wisely chose to make it decode only. I think there will be shift towards other codecs over time, especially when towers go. If you want to see a great example of bad Apple software you just have to look at Quicktime for windows. Exporting to a cineform .mov takes about 6 times longer than exporting the same material to cineform .avi.


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Herb Sevush
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:31:18 pm

[Frank Gothmann] " I think there will be shift towards other codecs over time, especially when towers go."

I agree. I think there will be a switch even if the towers don't go, one of the consequences of Apple's walking away from the dominance of FCP. But I'm not a long time planner, my needs are immediate, I have to jump one way or another by the end of May, and Apple's silence is killing me.

Long term I think many of us will be working on Linux boxes and delivering in codecs that haven't been announced or even developed yet. But long term doesn't pay the rent.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Phil Hoppes
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 3:43:00 pm

Well my experience with OSX networking vs Windows networking is OSX simply connects and finds things easy. To make Windows find things let alone mount is a major PITA. I have a linux file server and I've worked with Linux/Unix for close to 25 years so I'm very familiar with it. Samba, while it works, is a major PITA. Configuring Samba shares for anything more than a simple share take's a Ph.D. and then some. NFS is great and works fine Linux to Linux but can also be tricky with multiple OS's. NFS really sucks with Windows because you MUST purchase Windows Ultra Premium Extreme Suck Your Bank Account Dry For No Good Reason version because they won't give you the NFS client on any other version, specifically Windows 7 Professional. Yea, .... your Professional but just not enough to warrent an NFS client.

All that being said, I run OSX on my MBP because FCPX is great for some projects and there is still some legacy FCP7 stuff I have to deal with. My MBP is bootcamped to Windows 7 because my 3D and CAD software either only runs on windows or runs better. My compute servers are Windows 7 because that is the cheapest and easiest to deal with and universally runs all of the software I need for rendering. My file servers are Linux because that works best and they cannot be rendering servers because not all of my software has a Linux version. So in the end, yea, it's a complicated hodge - poge of OS's and computers but each one for each need is tailor made to do what it does best. A note.... I can make it work because in my previous life I was a tech geek and I know all of the low level crap to keep it all running. If I had to pay to keep all of this going I would have a much simpler setup as I simply could not afford to do it any other way. I sympathize with those that must do this.

Lastly, my 2cents is HP makes crap and so does Dell. I had HP servers I managed at my last company and their reliability was atrocious. There support is way overpriced and abysmal at resolving issues. Dell support was passable, only because the subcontracted to local people who's lively hood depending on doing a good job so my experience was I found they always worked to keep the customer happy even if it screwed Dell. They did not care about Dell they cared about the customer. I build my own PC's and servers but still believe Apple hardware, in general, is a very good deal (sans overpriced MacPro's) as it delivers a quality design at an affordable price. For those who really need a MacPro I hear your pain but you have to move on. I've said it before, MacPro revenue is less than %0.01 of Apples revenue. They don't care about the product line. They don't care you believe you need a tower and they will never license the OS or platform. You need to figure out an alternative solution to your problems.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:25:24 pm

[Phil Hoppes] "I've said it before, MacPro revenue is less than %0.01 of Apples revenue. They don't care about the product line. They don't care you believe you need a tower and they will never license the OS or platform. You need to figure out an alternative solution to your problems."

I am not a financial analyst. I have no idea how this stuff works. I am sure there is some sort of algorithm that calculates there real value of the %0.01 from the echo effect that's created (like how many iPhones/iPads/MacBookPros, a MacPro "sells").

Apple is a decently smart company. They have to know that the iDevice craze won't last forever, and because it won't last forever, what do they do after it? It is true that there's no time like the present, and if you have success today, you have to leverage it, but do you think that Apple is short sighted to put themselves in a bubble? Why push something like Thunderbolt out in to the open? Thunderbolt has zero effect on iDevices. None.

I think the problem here is that Apple is looking too far ahead and is forgetting the present which is what is causing this uproar. The future they envision I am sure goes beyond an iDevice.

While Thunderbolt is not a problem solver for desktop computing today, it will be in a few short years. I do not think that Casey Dissmore is right (with all do respect). From copper to optical, Thunderbolt will change what a computer looks like, there's no question. Hell, future PCIe configurations will change what a computer looks like. It's too bad we are stuck in the middle of this today, but it will make sense sometime in the near future. But I know nothing, so it's my opinion.

Jeremy


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Gary Huff
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:48:03 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "The future they envision I am sure goes beyond an iDevice."

I don't think so.


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Phil Hoppes
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 5:05:40 pm

Workstations, as a percentage of the total available market of desktops is around 1%. Apple has, at best, only a few percentage points of the workstation market, which last year was 1 million units world wide. At best.... Apple sold $100M of MacPros, which I highly doubt. You have to realize that while large, $100M is 0.097% of 109Billion dollars or what Apple sold last year. MacPro revenue is below Apple's round off error on their financials. It's nothing.


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 7:51:41 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Apple is a decently smart company. They have to know that the iDevice craze won't last forever, and because it won't last forever, what do they do after it? It is true that there's no time like the present, and if you have success today, you have to leverage it, but do you think that Apple is short sighted to put themselves in a bubble? Why push something like Thunderbolt out in to the open? Thunderbolt has zero effect on iDevices. None.

I think the problem here is that Apple is looking too far ahead and is forgetting the present which is what is causing this uproar. The future they envision I am sure goes beyond an iDevice.

While Thunderbolt is not a problem solver for desktop computing today, it will be in a few short years. I do not think that Casey Dissmore is right (with all do respect). From copper to optical, Thunderbolt will change what a computer looks like, there's no question."


Nailed it IMHO.

First Halo (not the game of course). For a content creator who buys a MacPro, there's likely to be a MacBookPro for portable use, an iMac or two for family use, and iPad or two in there as well as maybe a family of iPhones. Move that person to a Windows box and it can impact a ecosystem of sales.

Apple tends to be forward thinking and that certainly can be frustrating. Thunderbolt is in the earliest stages of some staggering changes if you just look at some of the things Intel talks about. One might guess that Apple's relationship to Intel is not transitory.



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Paul Dickin
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 11:01:00 am

Hi
It seems to me likely that any future Mac Pro introduced in 2012 would need to have the latest iteration of Thunderbolt built in - there's a new Intel TB chip due at the same time as the first Ivy Bridge CPUs.

However when I went to check it seems that Intel has made two recent TB pronouncements:
i) Optical TB interconnect will be coming later in 2012, date unannounced.
ii) The desktop TB variant due to be shipped 'real soon now' with Ivy Bridge has been axed, only the laptop version will be produced.

The latter announcement might be because Apple have said they don't want it... ;-(
The former announcement - no date in the frame - might lead one to suspect that no Mac Pro replacement is likely until Intel get to ship a full optical TB solution, with possibly a new TB chipset better suited to the specifics of the Mac Pro replacement architecture....

i) http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/13/optical-thunderbolt-this-year/
ii) http://www.istorya.net/forums/computer-hardware/489711-intel-cans-3-4w-tdp-...



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John Heagy
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 9:37:21 pm

[Paul Dickin] "It seems to me likely that any future Mac Pro introduced in 2012 would need to have the latest iteration of Thunderbolt built in"

I'm not so sure about TB in a MacPro if it has PCIe slots. Think about the difficulties in merging the monitor connectively built into TB with a third party GPU. Would third party GPUs require a TB port? Then the high speed data connectivity would be the issue.

The easiest would be to leave out monitor connectivity, but that would confuse users when they plug-in the monitor and it doesn't work. Can't see Apple doing that. This whole issue may be why HP isn't big on TB.

It may be issues like this that is delaying the MacPro. Would PCIe 3 solve it?... another reason for the delay?

I for one would gladly take an updated MacPro with PCIe slots and forgo TB. TB is an "on the desk" interface and PCIe an "under the desk" and "In the data center" interface.

John Heagy


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 10:39:29 pm

[John Heagy] "TB is an "on the desk" interface and PCIe an "under the desk" and "In the data center" interface."

Thunderbolt means instead of buying a Video I/O for each machine, I can move it from any number of desktops to any number of laptops. It means if I want fast RAID I can move, I can now do that easily especially if it needs to travel with me.

I think the GPUs will be whatever Apple offers in BTO or you buy from them with the appropriate ports. I think the rumors around the a possible anti glare monitor indicate that somethings coming (assuming it's true of course) unless they're expecting to make the killer iMac with anti glare monitor and the option to buy a second.

There's still a need for PCIe and PCIe 3 ups the anti a bit but I don't think they'll be PCIe 4x slots,

I'm not saying you'll like the system but it'll be Apple's vision of the future.



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Daniel Frome
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:55:22 pm

What a timely post you've made.

I sit writing this on my macbook pro, which I've just installed Windows 7 on (dual booted). I've done the same with my mac pro tower yesterday also.

Preparing for the inevitable.


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Jules bowman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 8, 2012 at 9:57:12 am

Daniel, did you make the I Hate Mum doco for the bbc featuring Oxleas CAMHS?


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 7:38:59 pm

Wow, I'm busy for a day and I see the worlds longest thread on a subject we've beaten to death.

I'll throw down my sixpence having read a bunch of the comments.
If Apple is even thinking about coming out with a Xeon multiprocessor box (let's NOT call it a MacPro because that may well be dead . . . or it may not be) they'd probably keep their supply chain open (Tim Cook's expertise) and that's what's happening so far.

If they're already decided to kill the MacPro and/or use of Xeon multproc machines they'd just yank the plug. They wouldn't likely keep a supply chain open on something that's a money loser with high production costs and lows sales just for the heck of it.

If Apple's coming out with an entirely new box it would be so "locked down" that either the rumor wouldn't happen or it would be spreading like wildfire as link bait. AppleInsider would be spewing stuff they heard from cockroaches (or micro organisms) from an Apple facility. In short. My guess is whatever is happening is tightly locked down. If it's death to MacPro AND Xeon based systems I can't fathom a reason that that plug would have already been pulled publicly.

The only other thing I can think of is that Apple believes the next iMac is going to be such a killer machine that that's when they'll pull the plug publicly. One of the very few inklings of rumors is Apple offering an anti glare monitor which would really be of primary interest to people involved in photo, graphics, video. So that might be part of their killer iMac system.



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Matt Gottshalk
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 7:53:07 pm

Well I am not waiting around for Apple.

Built a custom Windows 7 PC that is overclocked and watercooled.

Nvidia 580 1.5Ghz video card
64gb ram
Red Rocket Card
Maxx Digital External raid
BM Decklink 3d card.

Avid MC V6.0
Adobe Premiere CS5.5

Very happy with the speed and stability of the system and I look forward to trying it out with CS6 soon.

McGee Digital Media Inc.
24P HD Production and Post
http://www.mcgeedigitalmedia.com


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Cade Muhlig
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 5, 2012 at 8:15:57 pm

Now my decision to go Hackintosh 1 1/2 years ago doesn't look like such a bad idea.



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Bret Williams
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 3:26:59 am

For now. But if Apple isn't making workstations, why would they create an OS that can power one? Why would they support pice cards if none of their computers have pice slots? Etc.


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Andrew Richards
Re: New Mac Pro? I'm waiting patiently
on Apr 6, 2012 at 4:45:32 am

[Bret Williams] "Why would they support pice cards if none of their computers have pice slots?"

Even Macs without PCIe expansion slots use the bus for their GPUs and other internals. Thunderbolt uses PCIe such that according to Intel, PCIe and DisplayPort drivers are all an OS needs to address Thunderbolt-connected devices.

Best,
Andy


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Steve Connor
OT what if Microsoft had a "Project Glass" like Google
on Apr 8, 2012 at 2:55:06 pm







Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Andrew Richards
Re: OT what if Microsoft had a "Project Glass" like Google
on Apr 8, 2012 at 6:39:40 pm

I like this preview of what Google Glass might look like once you factor in Google's revenue model:







Best,
Andy


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Steve Connor
Re: OT what if Microsoft had a "Project Glass" like Google
on Apr 8, 2012 at 6:59:12 pm

[Andrew Richards] "I like this preview of what Google Glass might look like once you factor in Google's revenue model:"

I suspect Google's idea may go the way of 3DTV.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: OT what if Microsoft had a "Project Glass" like Google
on Apr 9, 2012 at 1:27:49 am

I like this version that factors in how an augmented "reality" might work.

Warning, contains adult language and themes.







Jeremy


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Chris Harlan
Re: OT what if Microsoft had a "Project Glass" like Google
on Apr 9, 2012 at 2:22:31 am

LOL. Okay, yeah. That's about how I picture it.


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Thomas Frank
Re: OT what if Microsoft had a "Project Glass" like Google
on Apr 9, 2012 at 11:02:29 am

Just think about this...
Final Cut Pro X is the second grossing App so doesn't this make it Apple flagship?
If it does or not... just keep that in mind, well Final Cut Pro X has SAN build right in it. Is there any over App that has this?
Why have this if there is not going to be any hardware from Apple that will not bring a SAN (Fiber) option with it?
We know that there is SANLink from PROMISE, but, this is not Apple.

I would say we are going to have two option a Mac Pro or something in the direction of a iMac Pro.
Which would say they are not going to drop the Pro line... as mention if they did it would have happened already with the Mac Pro and same with the Macbook Pro.



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Steve Connor
Re: OT what if Microsoft had a "Project Glass" like Google
on Apr 9, 2012 at 11:17:56 am

[Thomas Frank] "iMac Pro.
Which would say they are not going to drop the Pro line... as mention if they did it would have happened already with the Mac Pro and same with the Macbook Pro."


iMac Pro, what would that look like? Is there any way they could squeeze 8 cores into an iMac form factor?

8 cores and a fast graphics card is all I would need.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Thomas Frank
Re: OT what if Microsoft had a "Project Glass" like Google
on Apr 9, 2012 at 11:41:53 am

If, there is going to a iMac Pro I would think it will a bit different. But again I don't think we will this Apple won't take Monitor option away.



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