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My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks

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Jim Giberti
My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 4:48:53 am

Okay, I talked about this hypothetically but after months of this love hate relationship with FCPX I committed to see if I could make it do what I wanted it to before I started this new promo film.

So here it is, a basic 2 video, 6 audio track setup that combines the advantages of connected clips for compositing and Compound Clips for composite organization and audio mixing AND has a fixed timeline where nothing in the fixed Secondaries will travel with anything in the Primary dedicated tracks because they're not connected to the Primary.



The "Alley" below the Primary is one of the things I've frustrated over...a place where my sync audio clips automatically edit into without the need for a Compound Clip and that sits right under the on camera audio for synch as I assemble.

Using the right combination of Trim, Position and Shift Delete, I'm able to add, move, delete and trim clips in any track without effecting any thing else except when I want to by editing with Q.

After I tested it all I just emptied the containers and created a 1 minute template cleverly called traX in my project library.

Here it is with everything from J and L cuts to the sync audio lane, audio tracks etc to give you an idea, but it all works like I would want it to so far.



If nothing else, it shows how easy it would be for Apple to immediately provide a simple track grid option.


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Steve Connor
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 6:46:15 am

This idea was talked about a while ago, I made a short video of something similar and sent it to Apple. You're right it does show just how easy a fixed track option would be to implement

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Jim Giberti
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 7:04:03 am

Hey Steve, I was one of the people talking about it as I said, but I wanted to make it an actual permanent starting point for all my projects with an easy "exit strategy" for final output.

Plus the dedicated audio lane, I think is a new idea and works great. I took the whole idea to more practical level at least for me, in so much a this is what I have when I open the program now...I don't have to set anything up. It's a pretty similar working environment to FCP7 for a lot of uses and you can add tracks and delete tracks as simply as in 7.


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Steve Connor
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 7:23:56 am

I'm very interested to see how it works on a real project, it would be good it you could also send your experiences with it to Apple as well. At the moment I'm not feeling the need to use a track based layout, but I'm very aware it's something that is needed as an option if Apple want a wider adoption off FCPX

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Jim Giberti
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 7:41:52 am

Me too. That's why I wanted to set up a "default timeline" for this project and edit everything into it.

This thing has been in production for a year gathering all the footage over 4 seasons.

I absolutely loved organizing the hundreds of scenes, locations, seasons and actors with the keyword editor...absolutely dwarfs 7 in that regard.

I don't need tons of tracks. I just need more east/west control than X natively allows for.

I especially like this "audio sync lane". Because of the remote nature of some of these locations there's some audio direct to camera but most is separate audio. This gives me the ability to drop either in and do J and L cuts quickly with either. I just want it all to drop into and stay in a straight line as easily as if I selected a track in 7 and this way it does.

Honestly I think my basic starting point will be just three fixed audio tracks with that lane below the primary. I think I'm good with everything north of the primary right now, but it's immediately expandable.


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tony west
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 5:30:09 pm

Cool Jim, the fact that you could even make that speaks to the versatility of the program in a way doesn't it?


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Jim Giberti
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 5:51:53 pm

For me Tony, it's more, why does Apple require me to build a work around to "trick" X into making tracks that stay in place?

I just got tired of the lack of simple, visual, linear organization when I wanted it in complex edits.
It doesn't change the way X works, it just gives me more control of my organization and therefore edit.

Visually, I see editing as a north, south, east and west proposition- and metadata is like Z space. FCPX is all about north and south (me too), and all about Z space (me too), but kind of, eh, when it comes to east and west - so I just wanted to force it to respect those compass points too.

It's awfully nice to hit Q and have the audio tracks drop automatically below the primary without a Secondary, and stay there without a Compound Clip until I'm ready to finish.


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tony west
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 7:14:44 pm

[Jim Giberti] "For me Tony, it's more, why does Apple require me to build a work around to "trick" X into making tracks that stay in place?"

I don't know, if had to guess I would say that Apple thought that tracks were old and that their way was more innovative and people were going to throw flowers at them. I bet they are still asking themselves "what happened?"

One of the things I have always liked about Apple stuff is the fact that you can find workarounds for their stuff to get done what you need to your way.

Even before they had multi-cam you could still do a workaround and do multi-cam.
BTW, remember how many people were talking about multi-cam before they put it in and after they did nobody talks about it at all. Not to say it's good or bad or anything. It was such a big deal before.
Now, meh

You seem to have outsmarted them Jim. You have your tracks but they don't collide like they did in legacy and you don't have to lock and unlock your tracks.

It seems like you kind of have the best of both worlds.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 8:10:57 pm

[tony west] "BTW, remember how many people were talking about multi-cam before they put it in and after they did nobody talks about it at all. Not to say it's good or bad or anything. It was such a big deal before.
Now, meh"


I think that's just one of those things where if something is wrong people speak up but if nothings wrong, or nothing major is wrong, they keep quiet.

It's like if you are having car trouble you are probably going to talk about that it but on the flip side I doubt you talk about how your car is working fine when nothing is wrong with it.


-Andrew

2.9 GHz 8-core (4,1), FCP 7.0.3, 10.6.6
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (7.9.5)



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Herb Sevush
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 8:49:32 pm

[tony west] "BTW, remember how many people were talking about multi-cam before they put it in and after they did nobody talks about it at all. Not to say it's good or bad or anything. It was such a big deal before. Now, meh"

It looks like an excellent multi-cam tool as long as you have simplistic audio needs, it was reviewed positively when it came out, and I still can't use it because I split my audio over all my source tracks and X is terrible at dealing with this workflow. What else needs to be said about it?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 9:00:32 pm

[Herb Sevush] "It looks like an excellent multi-cam tool as long as you have simplistic audio needs, it was reviewed positively when it came out, and I still can't use it"

Rushed out to give the appearance that Apple were on top of the game but ultimately deeply flawed - why can't they just take a deep breath and get this stuff right? Everything about FCPX has been released prematurely. It's really not remotely encouraging.

Need to try harder, guys. Need to try a whole lot harder.

Another update where stuff just doesn't work properly will be a sign that they just can't get it together.

I think the big problem is they just don't have the resources ...

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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David Lawrence
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 9:12:23 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I think the big problem is they just don't have the resources ..."

Ironic, given they're the biggest, most successful tech company on planet earth, isn't it?

I don't think it's about resources, I think it's about priorities. Testing doesn't seem to be very high on the list these days.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
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Simon Ubsdell
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 9:22:41 pm

[David Lawrence] "I don't think it's about resources, I think it's about priorities. Testing doesn't seem to be very high on the list these days."

It could be so, but I wonder.

The whole "beta broadcast monitoring" thing really smacks of hysterical desperation - although to be honest they should probably have called a whole lot of the other junk "beta" while they were at it.

Everything suggest they are waaaaaaaaaay behind whatever schedule they set themselves - and in all probability without a gameplan as to how to get abreast of any of it.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Jim Giberti
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 9:35:30 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "
Everything suggest they are waaaaaaaaaay behind whatever schedule they set themselves - and in all probability without a gameplan as to how to get abreast of any of it.
"


I wonder if they'll try and make some news at NAB?


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David Lawrence
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 10:01:13 pm

[Jim Giberti] "I wonder if they'll try and make some news at NAB?"

After last year's fiasco, I imagine they'll be very careful. I've heard from several sources that they apparently thought they hit it out of the park at the NAB sneak peak and were completely blindsided by industry response after the June 21 release. I get the impression they've been scrambling ever since then.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 10:05:18 pm

[David Lawrence] "I've heard from several sources that they apparently thought they hit it out of the park at the NAB sneak peak"

That's just so great - they really don't have a clue how much they've messed up, which means they have even more work to do than we can possibly imagine.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Jim Giberti
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 10:05:20 pm

[David Lawrence] "After last year's fiasco, I imagine they'll be very careful. I've heard from several sources that they apparently thought they hit it out of the park at the NAB sneak peak and were completely blindsided by industry response after the June 21 release. I get the impression they've been scrambling ever since then.
"


I was going to ask, "How could they misjudge the industry that badly?" but then I remembered how much negative feedback they supposedly got from the pros that did preview it. Pretty perplexing.


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David Lawrence
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 11:13:04 pm

[Jim Giberti] "I was going to ask, "How could they misjudge the industry that badly?" but then I remembered how much negative feedback they supposedly got from the pros that did preview it. Pretty perplexing."

I think it's actually pretty simple. FCPX has engineering groupthink written all over it. It's easy to imagine they convinced themselves that their new model was better, without understanding the limitations or getting any early feedback. By they time they started showing it around, it was probably too late to make any significant changes.

I have to tip my hat to you, Jim. The hoops you're jumping through to make FCPX work your way are both clever and a little scary. Are you using the Position Tool a lot with your new project template?

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Jim Giberti
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 11:22:12 pm

[David Lawrence] "I have to tip my hat to you, Jim. The hoops you're jumping through to make FCPX work your way are both clever and a little scary. Are you using the Position Tool a lot with your new project template?"

I am David. For the most part (sans full editing) the secondaries are pretty much tracks once you get them to stay put. And they do have the advantage of holding CCs, so you can use them to assemble and then to master, so there are real pluses.

My favorite thing is using the locked secondaries to force the audio alley under the primary and having your edits go there and stay there. And I tweaked it a little more so that it's easy to do the same with, say your SFX or whatever.

The advantage being as you select audio you don't have to keep selecting the secondary to drop it into, it acts like selecting audio tracks in 7.


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TImothy Auld
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 11:24:32 pm

JHC Yes!

Tim


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Andrew Kimery
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 11:26:51 pm

[David Lawrence] "I think it's actually pretty simple. FCPX has engineering groupthink written all over it. It's easy to imagine they convinced themselves that their new model was better, without understanding the limitations or getting any early feedback. By they time they started showing it around, it was probably too late to make any significant changes."

I disagree to a degree. I think it has 'Steve Jobs think', not group think, written all over it. I think Steve had a vision of how editing should be and that's the direction FCPX went in. I've read accounts from people that gave notes nearly a year before FCPX was launched and they were being ignored.

Years ago Randy Ubillios was working on a companion app, a logging type app, for FCP. He showed it to Jobs and Jobs said something like,"That's what I want iMovie to look like" and that's how iMovie '08, which was universally hated, came to be. Two years later iMovie '08 finally got back on track.

Maybe FCPX will follow the same course maybe not. Who knows.


-Andrew

2.9 GHz 8-core (4,1), FCP 7.0.3, 10.6.6
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (7.9.5)



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David Lawrence
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 11:36:16 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I disagree to a degree. I think it has 'Steve Jobs think', not group think, written all over it. I think Steve had a vision of how editing should be and that's the direction FCPX went in. I've read accounts from people that gave notes nearly a year before FCPX was launched and they were being ignored."

I think you're exactly right about Steve Jobs. I would argue he was the leader of the group. ;)

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Chris Harlan
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 29, 2012 at 12:08:06 am

[David Lawrence] "[Andrew Kimery] "I disagree to a degree. I think it has 'Steve Jobs think', not group think, written all over it. I think Steve had a vision of how editing should be and that's the direction FCPX went in. I've read accounts from people that gave notes nearly a year before FCPX was launched and they were being ignored."

I think you're exactly right about Steve Jobs. I would argue he was the leader of the group. ;)
"


It definitely has that one button mouse feel.


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tony west
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 28, 2012 at 9:19:01 pm

[Herb Sevush] "What else needs to be said about it?"

Just that, you did a good job of explaining why you can't use it for your work.

I wanted to see more break downs of it pro and con.

I guess like Andrew implied, many must be OK with it.


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Andy Neil
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 29, 2012 at 2:14:51 am

[tony west] "I wanted to see more break downs of it pro and con."

It has many pros and very few cons, but the cons make it unworkable for standard post production multicam workflows like the type that Mark Raudonis uses over at Bunim-Murray.

Pros:
Syncs easily and very accurately
Uses metadata creatively to create multiclips
Angle viewer is simple and elegant
Angle Editor is badass and multiclips are more editable than in any other NLE
Can sync stills, audio, different frame rates/sizes and codecs.

Cons:
Can't easily drill down into the audio tracks for each angle
Can't edit multitrack audio or assign multitrack audio.
Can't separate audio from video in edited multiclip
Can't "finalize" or otherwise separate an edited clip from it's multiclip relationship.

Most of the cons are to do with audio or how an editor might need to manipulate audio after an mutlicam edit. Hopefully, these shortcomings are being addressed along with a general fix of how audio is handled in FCPX projects.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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tony west
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Mar 29, 2012 at 2:43:01 am

Andy, awesome breakdown.

Thanks man


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Dave Gage
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Apr 30, 2012 at 6:56:15 pm

Jim (and others),

Because this thread gets referenced so much, I've probably read through it 3-4 times, but I'm still missing what is likely a very obvious point...

What is the basic setup made of to achieve this? Are those gap clips in there that create the "tracks"? I've been with FCPX since v10.00, but somehow I'm not getting this.

(I know Steve made a short video tutorial on this. Is it posted anywhere?)

Thanks,
Dave


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Jim Giberti
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Apr 30, 2012 at 10:08:02 pm

[Dave Gage] "What is the basic setup made of to achieve this? Are those gap clips in there that create the "tracks"? I've been with FCPX since v10.00, but somehow I'm not getting this.
"


Hey Dave, I can email you a project folder which is a template I made of it.
It's a 6 Audio Track, 1 Video Track, 1 minute long empty project that you can quickly expand the time and tracks as you want.

Yes those are inserted 1 frame gap clips at the top and a 1 frame audio clip at 60 seconds that forces your edited audio clips into the empty "lane" below the primary and above the audio Secondaries unless you want them to go into those dedicated "tracks".

Here's the 3 steps to have everything line up and start at Zero when you're done your edit:

-When done editing, select all Secondary Gaps at first frames and Delete.
-Reselect those Secondaries and nudge "." one frame to the right.
-Select the Primary Place Holder at the first frame and Delete.

I'm sure you know this, but these are a few things to make sure you defeat magnetism when you want to:

-Use Trim Tool in Secondaries to trim adjacent clips without affecting timeline.
-Use P Tool in Secondaries to adjust clips individually without moving other clips.
-Use P Tool to create L and J cuts in Primary.
-Shift Delete to Lift clip while keeping other clips in place in either Primary or Secondaries.

Hope this helps.

Jim


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Dave Gage
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on May 1, 2012 at 2:03:24 am

Jim,

[Jim Giberti] "I can email you a project folder which is a template I made of it."

Yes, that would be great. You can send it to: webmaster3(at)harmonicalessons(dot)com

[Jim Giberti] "I'm sure you know this, but these are a few things to make sure you defeat magnetism when you want to:

-Use Trim Tool in Secondaries to trim adjacent clips without affecting timeline.
-Use P Tool in Secondaries to adjust clips individually without moving other clips.
-Use P Tool to create L and J cuts in Primary.
-Shift Delete to Lift clip while keeping other clips in place in either Primary or Secondaries."


I'm primarily a musician and web guy and have been busy with non-video projects for about six weeks, so the reminder is helpful. The closest I've gotten to video in the last month or so is reading the two FCPX Cow forums. I'm actually fine with using the default magnetic scheme, but I find your workaround very cool and I'd like to play with it the next time I fire up the program.

Thanks,
Dave


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Tim Cromar
Re: My Demagnetized FCPX with Tracks
on Oct 24, 2016 at 11:15:34 am

Hello Jim
Just came upon your excellent post today while searching for a track-based fcpx alternative. Would it be possible to get a copy of your project template file please? to: tgc5264 [at] mac.com
Many thanks!
Tim


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