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X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store

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Steve Connor
X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 20, 2012 at 3:48:23 pm

Will be interesting to see if this works

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 20, 2012 at 4:52:35 pm

It works very nicely -

- except that for now you can't consolidate your exported media, so if you have large source files it will be quite cumbersome to say the least. (Nor can you link to the original media.)

But apparently this will be addressed quite soon.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 20, 2012 at 4:55:53 pm

This is also AAF only. Not OMF. So that would be ProTool 7 or later, I believe.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 20, 2012 at 7:22:32 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "It works very nicely -

- except that for now you can't consolidate your exported media, so if you have large source files it will be quite cumbersome to say the least. (Nor can you link to the original media.)

But apparently this will be addressed quite soon.
"


Any other gotchas that you know of at the moment? Would be very interested to know if it works with logic Pro as well

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 20, 2012 at 7:35:24 pm

[Steve Connor] "Any other gotchas that you know of at the moment? Would be very interested to know if it works with logic Pro as well"

Generally it works very well as far as I've been able to test it - distinctly more robust than Xto7 which had quite a few issues with complex audio handling in my experience.

A really nice implementation of Roles - just what a lot of us have been hoping for.

Be aware that volume and pan are not currently supported though it will be coming soon apparently.

Don't know about how it will work with Logic - haven't used it in a while. Am waiting for the upcoming (???!!!) Logic X to blow me away - but who knows what to expect from Apple now ...

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Lemur Hayop
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 20, 2012 at 11:07:13 pm

i can't get it to work with logic pro 8. hopefully somebody can try logic pro 9 and report back.


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Paul Figgiani
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 20, 2012 at 5:48:28 pm

I guess the X2Pro AAF's could be imported/opened in Soundtrack Pro and/or Logic as well?

-paul.


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Oliver Peters
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 20, 2012 at 5:51:09 pm

Didn't work in STP when I tried. Haven't tried Logic. I am hoping that the next rev of Adobe Audition will handle it, since Adobe cares about AAF and Apple doesn't.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Lemur Hayop
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 20, 2012 at 11:22:54 pm

somebody posted a question in the x2pro support forum asking about logic pro 9. that's probably the best place to get an answer about logic.

http://x2pro.net/Feature-Requests/27-Will-you-support-Apple-Logic-Pro-9.htm...

however, the faq says nothing about any other app, only pro tools.


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Chris Steele
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 21, 2012 at 5:50:15 pm

Hi, the truth is that we've only tested on Pro Tools, so we can't be sure. What we are producing is a standard AAF with embedded audio. We'll try to get some testing done soon.
Thanks!

Chris Steele
Product Manager
Marquis Broadcast


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Lemur Hayop
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 21, 2012 at 7:40:44 pm

The poster on the x2pro forum got the same results with Logic Pro 9 as I did with Logic Pro 8: shows the track names but doesn't import the audio files. Soundtrack Pro 2 is more specific about its error: "Soundtrack Pro cannot import the AAF embedded media file."

Of course AAF opens very well in Pro Tools 8 on my machine, and I presume it's fine with PT9 and 10. Pro Tools-only isn't a bad thing. I find editing in PT is really top-notch. The caveat is the dreaded outdated realtime bounce, which is painful for long videos, making revisions horrendous. I'm sure a lot of PT editors bounce less-than-ideal takes because there's no time or patience. Avid is dumping TDM (and presumably RTAS) to hopefully offer an offline bounce in PT11.


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Chris Steele
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 21, 2012 at 7:57:06 pm

Ah, that error message sounds like Logic cannot handle embedded audio in AAF at all. Strange limitation. We plan to do referenced audio in AAF in a later release, and trimming audio. Embedded was the path of least resistance for a first release.
Many thanks guys.

Chris Steele
Product Manager
Marquis Broadcast


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Steve Connor
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 21, 2012 at 8:18:31 pm

So can you get OMF out of Protools? I've never used it, but I'm thinking about learning it

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 21, 2012 at 9:05:15 pm

[Steve Connor] "So can you get OMF out of Protools? I've never used it, but I'm thinking about learning it"

Yes, indeed, OMF export from ProTools works very well and is hugely useful especially if you're working on AVID and want to be able to access an audio session with all its data.

PT is very far from perfect (well, what else do you expect from AVID?) but there is simply no question that it is the industry standard, like it or not.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Steve Connor
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 21, 2012 at 9:09:09 pm

Thanks Simon, I might invest in a copy and some training.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 21, 2012 at 9:46:04 pm

[Steve Connor] "I might invest in a copy and some training."

Good luck with it, but be warned - you'll need seriously deep pockets.

PT is anything but cheap - OK, let's be honest it's massively over-priced in typical AVID fashion. You'll be amazed how much extra you need to spend to enable features that you'd have thought would come with the basic package.

In fact, I don't want to put you off but unless you are a trained audio engineer and have a sustained stream of revenue from mixing audio, I'd question whether it was a purchase worth making.

I'd say the better scenario is to be in a position - which xtoPro finally enables - to be able to hand off your audio via AAF/OMF to an audio professional who will in the vast majority of cases be using PT rather than anything else.

If you're essentially a video editor who wants to dabble in audio then wait and see if Logic X delivers everything he audio community is hoping for it - there is a reasonable chance that it will interface better with FCPX than anything else.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 21, 2012 at 10:05:27 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "PT is anything but cheap - OK, let's be honest it's massively over-priced in typical AVID fashion. You'll be amazed how much extra you need to spend to enable features that you'd have thought would come with the basic package"

I'm not sure I agree. Since PT9, ProTools has been available as a full version in a software-only, open configuration. You can run with most Core Audio i/o devices. I have run it fine with an older Mbox2 Mini and in fact there's a current bundle of Mbox Pro + PT9 for $999. Nothing else needed if your main objective is to mix stereo programs sent from an NLE.

[Simon Ubsdell] "If you're essentially a video editor who wants to dabble in audio then wait and see if Logic X delivers everything he audio community is hoping for it - there is a reasonable chance that it will interface better with FCPX than anything else."

I would agree. I personally prefer STP for what I do over PT and also like Adobe Audition. I'm looking forward to Audition's next version.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 22, 2012 at 1:22:57 am

http://www.studiodaily.com/2012/03/useful-tools-for-editors-x2pro-audio-con...

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 22, 2012 at 7:51:24 am

[Oliver Peters] "Nothing else needed if your main objective is to mix stereo programs sent from an NLE."

Yes, I should have qualified by saying that PT is now massively cheaper than it has been in the past and PT9 was itself quite a big step forward.

I'm not sure that you can say that even now it compares price-wise with quality competitors like Logic and Digital Performer (and many others).

The point I was making is that if you're used to almost any other software DAW you'll be astonished at what you don't get at the basic price.

If you want to mix in anything other than stereo - and let's face it almost everything now allows you to do 5.1, even dare I say it FCPX itself! - you'll have to pay an extortionate premium to get the (outrageously misnamed) Complete Production Toolkit which will set you back more than $1500 and give you very little meaningful functionality beyond switching on the 5.1 capability. This is quite simply outrageous in today's market place.

(It's also worth noting, I think I'm right in saying, that until PT9 you couldn't even import OMF/AAF without buying the CPT.)

Also comparing PT with the competition you'll be shocked at how few plug-ins come as standard - only just enough to do the basic job and no more - whereas Logic and the rest (including the late lamented and essentially free STP!!!) have an extensive and high quality plug-in set built in. To begin to make PT compete in terms of features you'd need to spend literally thousands of dollars extra on third party plugs.

The general feeling among PT users is that it's a long way from being value for money, especially in terms of things like upgrades. The furore over the pricing of PT10 was truly something to behold!

It's worth mentioning that just like the rest of the AVID range, PT is marketed via a typically labyrinthine set of pricing and packaging structures which, whether designedly or not, seem like the perfect trap for the unwary.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Steve Connor
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 22, 2012 at 1:17:26 pm

Thanks for the thoughts on this, I think it might fill a gap in FCPX capability so on complex projects I can get some finer control on the audio before it gets sent to audio finishing. I'll still wait for a while though to see in Logic X turns up or at least an update so Logic could work with FCPX XML.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Oliver Peters
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 22, 2012 at 8:13:22 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Yes, I should have qualified by saying that PT is now massively cheaper than it has been in the past and PT9 was itself quite a big step forward. I'm not sure that you can say that even now it compares price-wise with quality competitors like Logic and Digital Performer (and many others). The point I was making is that if you're used to almost any other software DAW you'll be astonished at what you don't get at the basic price."

Yes. I would agree with all of this. I'm personally not a huge fan of PT, using STP and Audition myself. My son - a guitarist/composer/mixer - swears by Vegas, which started life as a DAW. If you don't need the music side of what PT offers, Vegas blows the doors off of PT in turns of real-time track-count. Nevertheless, PT is the industry standard and nearly ever mixer I work with, who specializes in sound for picture, is very tied to PT. Providing a PT session file is often a deliverable requirement on some jobs. The only non-PT mixer I work with uses Logic and prefers it. I've sometimes had trouble with him reading OMFs out of FCP7. Never had an issue with the PT guys. Other Logic users tend to be musicians rather than just audio post folks. So using Logic certainly is NOT the norm. As far as cost, you are right. OTOH, once you get under $1K, does it really matter? One project will pay off the difference if not the entire application!

[Simon Ubsdell] "If you want to mix in anything other than stereo - and let's face it almost everything now allows you to do 5.1, even dare I say it FCPX itself! - you'll have to pay an extortionate premium to get the (outrageously misnamed) Complete Production Toolkit which will set you back more than $1500 and give you very little meaningful functionality beyond switching on the 5.1 capability. "

Certainly true. Yet, nothing I normally produce myself goes beyond stereo. Projects that require surround get done in a studio where the engineer knows what they are doing and the monitoring is set up properly. At least TC and OMF/AAF is now included. That used to cost $500 extra.

[Simon Ubsdell] "To begin to make PT compete in terms of features you'd need to spend literally thousands of dollars extra on third party plugs."

Hmm... Seems like it comes with enough for most audio post folks, but I get what you are saying. I certainly know plenty of PT mixers who have a wealth of third-party plug-ins.

[Simon Ubsdell] "PT is marketed via a typically labyrinthine set of pricing and packaging structures which, whether designedly or not, seem like the perfect trap for the unwary."

That's certainly not the intention, but you do have a lot of upgrade variables. Personally I find the website very difficult to navigate. When you look at PT specifically, it's probably better to go through a reseller like Sweetwater or B&H.

One other comment before was about the real-time bounce. The reason that exists, is because PT hardware allows you to loop through external hardware processing. So if you want to use that favorite, vintage compressor that's sitting in the rack when you print the mix inside PT, then real-time is the only way to do that. Probably needs an optional setting.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 22, 2012 at 8:33:03 pm

[Oliver Peters] "PT is the industry standard and nearly ever mixer I work with, who specializes in sound for picture, is very tied to PT. Providing a PT session file is often a deliverable requirement on some jobs."

Yes, very much agree with this. In my field which is feature film, the lingua franca is PT and nothing but and mostly it's about sharing PT sessions, which still makes a huge amount of sense. A lot of feature filmd eliverables are specified as PT sessions, as you say. Which means there isn't really the choice to work in anything else.

[Oliver Peters] "I've sometimes had trouble with him reading OMFs out of FCP7."

Yup, I've found that there are major problems with getting OMFs into things like STP and Logic - maybe Logic X will be better but I doubt it!

[Oliver Peters] "Other Logic users tend to be musicians rather than just audio post folks."

I used to use Logic a lot for music then dropped out of the habit and now do it all in PT, which isn't as good but it does the job. Again it would be great to see Logic really step up a gear, but the FCPX experience tells us that this is not a given!

[Oliver Peters] "I certainly know plenty of PT mixers who have a wealth of third-party plug-ins."

Anyone who works in audio (and I dip in and out all the time) is by definition a plug-in/outboard effects junkie and mostly with good reason. What is certainly true though is that the Logic/STP/FCPX plug-in set is simply amazing value with a really high class sonic quality and a really deep feature set. This is the main reason why I deplore the death of STP which seemed to me to be on course to be the best/most cost effective DAW for audio post if anybody had ever bothered to take it seriously. Like you, I always preferred it to PT for speed and convenience and for the fact that it could do a lot of things a whole lot better. In many ways this is the saddest fall-out from the demise of the FCS suite, though I know there will only be a handful of people who who agree.


[Oliver Peters] "That's certainly not the intention, but you do have a lot of upgrade variables. Personally I find the website very difficult to navigate."

Sorry, but I'm just not as charitable as you, and having been majorly stung by AVID over so many issues over so many years it seems pretty clear to me that obfuscation of the pricing structure is one of their core business strategies.

[Oliver Peters] "One other comment before was about the real-time bounce."

This really is a shocking omission at this point in time - and massive waste of valuable time. OTH there are many facilities whose livelihood is dependent on pumping out deliverables and who don't for one minute begrudge the fact that they can claim that these have to be done in real time. That's very good revenue right there.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 22, 2012 at 9:06:57 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Yes, very much agree with this. In my field which is feature film, the lingua franca is PT and nothing but and mostly it's about sharing PT sessions, which still makes a huge amount of sense. A lot of feature filmd eliverables are specified as PT sessions, as you say. Which means there isn't really the choice to work in anything else."

Definitely a strong point for all Avid products.

[Simon Ubsdell] "Again it would be great to see Logic really step up a gear, but the FCPX experience tells us that this is not a given!"

I suspect Logic X will NOT be more specialized. Although tracks may survive, it will certainly be designed to appeal to a broader base now that it's been moved to the App Store.

[Simon Ubsdell] "Like you, I always preferred it to PT for speed and convenience and for the fact that it could do a lot of things a whole lot better. In many ways this is the saddest fall-out from the demise of the FCS suite, though I know there will only be a handful of people who who agree."

I suspect Apple figures they rolled all the good parts into FCP X.

[Simon Ubsdell] "OTH there are many facilities whose livelihood is dependent on pumping out deliverables and who don't for one minute begrudge the fact that they can claim that these have to be done in real time. That's very good revenue right there."

Well true, but a lot of feature post I do is flat-bid. The last mixer just groaned when I requested various sets of stems, mixes and M&Es. ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 22, 2012 at 10:29:07 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I suspect Logic X will NOT be more specialized. Although tracks may survive, it will certainly be designed to appeal to a broader base now that it's been moved to the App Store."

Unfortunately I think you're likely to be absolutely right about this - though I like to hope otherwise.

I think this will be another very interesting test of Apple's plausibility as a supplier of products to the professional AV industry. They have such a great chance to build a really strong PT contender, but somehow we know they won't be doing that and they'll be heading for the dumbed-down route instead.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Lemur Hayop
Re: X2Pro now available on the Mac App Store
on Mar 23, 2012 at 5:54:48 am

When FCP was king (around 2006), I longed for FCP/Logic integration, akin to Rewire. During the first decade of this century, I was all about Logic Pro, although I kept the current version of Pro Tools during the same time.

Now I'm all about PT and been into it for a few years. Avid's been including more plug-ins and that was a big plus, and it looks as if RTAS might see the same fate as TDM. Although I experimented with hardware i/o during the realtime bounce, my hardware wasn't as good as software plug-ins, so that's why I wholeheartedly welcome an offline bounce.

Given Apple's recent track record and focus, I predict Logic X will be initially dumbdowned, a la GarageBand, a la FCPX. Conversely, being that FCPX is slowly picking up speed, perhaps the initial shock will send people to Pro Tools. Not an issue for a lot of us, since most folks are on PT already and PT plays Apple Loops, etc., whereas Logic might have EXS, but who cares, it hasn't been maintained much. In other words, Logic's previous MIDI advantage seems to have been matched by Pro Tools, and those with Rewire can use Reason or Ableton.

I also noticed Digital Performer is dual-platform now, and that's a surprise. Will DP attract Premiere and Avid folks on the PC?


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