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Welcome Final Cut X

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Devin Crane
Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:15:19 am

So the next question is what's next for Motion, is it DOA?


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:16:23 am

How about Color?

DVDSP?

STP?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Michael Hancock
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:17:13 am

Compressor?

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:19:27 am

No word about any other application. Its just the FCP X by itself.

And i wonder what those 3d glasses were about???

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:23:14 am

Ok.

Peter Wiggins just confirmed with somebody that there is more to come.

perhaps after 30 min break!

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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Mark Suszko
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:28:28 am

The new features and no more transcoding/rendering mentioned so far alone, make me as happy as a little girl- Now please continue mit der Sshprokets.



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David Mathis
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:24:46 am

I too would like to know about the other apps. The fact there are questions regarding if they will be EOL leaves me concerned and confused. Only time will tell.


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Devin Crane
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:28:49 am

My prediction is Compressor sticks around to purchase separately for $99. Not sure about the others.



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Sean Kapleton
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:30:39 am

shrpockits!


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Mark Suszko
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:30:50 am

Sohrab, thanks for the live blogging so far. it is appreciated. If they come back with more I hope you stick with it back on the first thread, and put more of the personal editorial views in this one.


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:33:55 am

Sure Mark! You are very welcome.

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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Mark Palmos
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:30:15 am

My god, if Motion and the other pro apps have not been included, it will really be time to have a look at Premiere/AE again.

Motion desperately needed several serious bugfixes and many feature improvements like using subtimelines or motion clips in drop zones, ofsetting drop zone footage, fixing keyframe editor etc...

Some sexy things in X, but mostly eye candy... though we will see how the keyframing and all other real world workflows work in good time...

Can it display duplicate PARTS of clips on a timeline? I really need that one.

4:28 am, time to go back to bed...

Mark.


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:32:34 am

[Mark Palmos] "Some sexy things in X, but mostly eye candy"

One thing is for sure that apple has not emerged a clear winner out of this. Its a going to be a divided house.

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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Paul Provost
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:37:03 am

i like avid mc5.5 for $995...

http://www.postandbeam.tv
grade and finish @ post + beam


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Bret Williams
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:38:57 am

I like the CS 5.5 master collection for $550 upgrade. Course, I just upgraded to the master collection in December... Adobe is really off my tax writeoff purchase schedule. Apple too.


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:40:18 am

You could not be more 'spot on' Paul.

That looks like a damn good option now!

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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Chris Conlee
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:45:33 am

Yep. And that includes all the bundled apps, such as Sorenson Squeeze, Smartsound, etc. Looks like there's only one real "pro" on the block now. Well, maybe one and a half, if Adobe keeps their stuff together.


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:43:06 am

[Sohrab Sandhu] "One thing is for sure that apple has not emerged a clear winner out of this. Its a going to be a divided house."

I think that is still left up for debate. I think that if apple comes back and upgrades the rest of the studio then a lot of people will be significantly more comfortable. I don't think I've been hearing many complaints about Final Cut Pro X itself. More that there is just a lot left unknown. The updates that have been made really are great and have been wanted. Background rendering is HUGE!

So far, my biggest issues are the unknown (as of now) nature of the full studio, and also at $299 price through the app store just does not feel pro. That's how much FCP Express costs. I spent the full price on Studio 3 and was expecting to upgrade the entire suite for $299 like it has always been.

Bottom line, there must be more that we don't know yet that is going to make a huge difference. If not, then the upgrade better be no more than 50 dollars.

Panasonic HPX170 P
2008 Unibody Macbook Pro 15 inch, 2.8 Ghz, 4GB RAM
CalDigit VR
Final Cut Pro Studio 3
Avid Media Composer
The College of WIlliam and Mary


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Mark Suszko
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:47:25 am

Matthew, I feel you pain, and I'm going to help you out by re-selling you a COPY OF FCP-X FOR $999.95 BECAUSE I'M JUST THAT KIND OF NICE GUY.

:-)

(There is nothing inherently "pro" about paying more for something than the next guy_)


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:49:56 am

[Mark Suszko] "(There is nothing inherently "pro" about paying more for something than the next guy_)"

It's all about the perception of quality. Sometimes it just feels better to pay more... like when I buy the organic celery.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!


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Don Walker
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:52:41 am

Walter Biscardi indicated last week, that this might have really been an honest to God last minute decision to show up by Apple. (If so perhaps they not ready to show the rest of the suite.

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


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Mark Suszko
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:54:19 am

That's not how a real businessman thinks, is it?. Pay less, get more=good. But the night is young, and there are many questions as yet left unanswered.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:55:16 am

[Mark Suszko] " the night is young, and there are many questions as yet left unanswered."

Apparently, there will be no Q&A with Apple.

So, the night may not be as young you'd think and there are indeed many questions left unanswered.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:56:38 am

Come on David, help us out here.

What are your thoughts?

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:01:41 am

I think we'll all have to wait and see.

As Mark and many others have said, there are many unanswered questions. I think there are too many at this point to make any definitive statements with any degree of certainty.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:58:52 am

[Mark Suszko] "That's not how a real businessman thinks, is it?"

Well, no one has ever accused me of being a real businessman.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!


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Chris Conlee
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:54:11 am

You're of course correct. But there is something 'Pro" about shared storage, device control, shared projects, working online and film lists, etc. These are the areas I expected to see developed, not auto-everything.

Grrrrr.


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:53:06 am

[Mark Suszko] "Matthew, I feel you pain, and I'm going to help you out by re-selling you a COPY OF FCP-X FOR $999.95 BECAUSE I'M JUST THAT KIND OF NICE GUY."

Mark, man i just love you!

Here i am lost in my thoughts trying to evaluate FCP X with my little brain & there you are with 'witty' & 'Funny' one liners.

I really admire you & the way you take things as they come.

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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craig whit
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:00:24 am

LUTs? Image sequence import?

-Craig

craig whitaker
vfx – mograph


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:58:39 am

Matthew, it's not about money, it's about features, about being a pro application,
about honoring army of people who not only invested money but time to learn and perfect the application or suite... and now suddenly (honestly it wasn't sudden for me, I saw it coming) you are going to drop us
because you don't need our money any more, it's peanuts (comparing to what they are earning from iP gadgets) for us (Apple).
Thats' the problem, and that's the answer to those who were saying all these years: "you don't need to upgrade, use a tool (application) that you want".

We invested our time (first of all) and money and our whole system around you, and you are giving me iMovie X, iMovie on steroids.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:59:08 am

So far, I have way more questions than answers -- but I suppose that was to be expected.

While the debate over whether FCPX is geared towards consumers starts up in earnest, I'd like to point out one decidedly pro feature: FCPX finally using ColorSync is a big deal. Real color management in FCP has been all I've wanted for Christmas for years.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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krisztian majdik
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:11:23 am

Sounds great but I am very disappointed by the lack of Stereoscopic support. That was really key for me and my work.


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:25:51 am

Final Cut Pro X or (e)X Final Cut Pro :)


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Cory Caplan
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:35:09 am

On the Livestream, the demo actually said "Final Cut TEN" I was pretty surprised. That's some shady Microsoft Word for Windows "SIX" era stuff right there.



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krisztian majdik
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:40:39 am

I'm torn, I love the software but I won't fight against a switch to AVID if it makes more sense..


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Russell Lasson
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:44:09 am

I think the key to all of this is that it is was a "Sneak Peak" and not a full product announcement. There are a million other questions to be answered. Even though there were things that I wondered If I would use, in general, it looks really cool. There will be quite a few editors who will really hate the change.

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


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krisztian majdik
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:54:19 am

Fair enough:) I will def. buy it to see how I like it. 300 bucks is super cheap.


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:57:36 am

I could not agree more with Miodrag. I have been working on Final Cut since Final Cut Pro 3 back in 2003. It truly has been an investment of substantial time as well as money. I took the time to learn Motion and Soundtrack and Color. If they are integrated in some sort of "Rooms" structure than that's fine with me, but if I need to start learning new applications that's a whole other story, not to mention financial investments.

And Mark, I am not complaining about Final Cut costing $299. Simply trying to figure out how a thousand dollar program undergoes a full overhaul from the ground up and comes out 70% less expensive. Raises more questions for me than excitement. That's all.

But yes, it was a sneak preview and there will be much more to come I'm sure.

Panasonic HPX170 P
2008 Unibody Macbook Pro 15 inch, 2.8 Ghz, 4GB RAM
CalDigit VR
Final Cut Pro Studio 3
Avid Media Composer
The College of WIlliam and Mary


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Craig Harris
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:14:06 am

[Matthew Sonnenfeld] "I am not complaining about Final Cut costing $299. Simply trying to figure out how a thousand dollar program undergoes a full overhaul from the ground up and comes out 70% less expensive. Raises more questions for me than excitement. That's all."

I felt the same way when DaVinci Resolve was released for $995 - however, we now know that the cost cut did not take away anything from the product.

Lightworks is now free and used on more big budget features than any other offline editing suite (King's Speech - recent film).

Final Cut Pro - X is simply providing a very good product in an industry where tools are becoming cheaper.

Craig
Colorist - Vancouver, BC


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Craig Seeman
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27:58 am

Craig, thanks for that post. For relative old timers like me, all this price drops have been major dramatic. Maybe young'uns haven't experienced that yet.

Let's remember that Apple's business model is to use software to sell hardware. They're thinking about all the MacPro they're going to sell to push all this real time and background render to the max as we aim for the fastest possible workflows on impossibly tighter client deadlines (and tighter budgets).



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Terence Curren
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:31:52 am

[Craig Seeman] "Let's remember that Apple's business model is to use software to sell hardware. They're thinking about all the MacPro they're going to sell to push all this real time and background render to the max as we aim for the fastest possible workflows on impossibly tighter client deadlines (and tighter budgets)."

Your thinking in an old paradigm. Try iMovie with H.264 on an iPhone. Then tell me you need tons of processor for the new world. Efficient code, using the core audio and video, can do amazing things.

That and Thunderbolt, and you may be happy with any laptop or MacMini.

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca


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Craig Seeman
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:40:10 am

Ternance, I don't doubt what you're saying about efficiency at all. Not really old paradigm though.

Are you assuming there will be only a small advantage using i7 12 core? The difference might be between a screaming MacMini and a MacPro that's just short of teleportation as one edits 12 camera shoots in AVCHD native.

Apple makes money by selling hardware and I can't help but think $299 FCP is designed to help MacPro sales . . . while beginners can now do professional work on a MacMini.



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Terence Curren
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:45:11 am

[Craig Seeman] "Apple makes money by selling hardware and I can't help but think $299 FCP is designed to help MacPro sales . "

Well, personally I would say it was designed to sell, iPhones, iPads, iPods and AppleTVs. Along with a little commission off the top for whatever money changes hands through iTunes.

But that's just me looking down the road a bit...

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:57:54 am

[Terence Curren] "But that's just me looking down the road a bit..."

What road? They didn't show me much of a road. So little tangible information was revealed tonight that I don't see how any of us with businesses based around FCS have could have anything other than anxiety about the future at this point?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Terence Curren
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:05:37 am

[David Roth Weiss] "What road? They didn't show me much of a road. So little tangible information was revealed tonight that I don't see how any of us with businesses based around FCS have could have anything other than anxiety about the future at this point?"


I am not going to argue that. I looked at the big picture after NAB last year and theorized where they would go with FCP. Tonight I was proven right. I based it on the big picture of Apple trying to replace networks just as it replaced music distributors. It is very apparent, and a great business plan for Apple.

In that universe, the few of us still living in the past, are not as important as owning the future. (For what it's worth, you really should be looking at where you fit in this new world)

PS: Don't shoot me, I am just trying to map out my future just like you. And I wouldn't mind being wrong either, but nothing in the tea leaves leads me to believe that.

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:30:48 am

When's the next Editor's Lounge Terry? I wouldn't want to miss it... That one should be really exciting.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Keith Pratt
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 2:53:40 pm

Terence Curren: "I looked at the big picture after NAB last year and theorized where they would go with FCP. Tonight I was proven right."

From the predictions of yours that I've seen — far from all of them, I'm sure — I don't think you could say you've been proven right.

Colour management isn't an iMovie feature. Nor is 4K. Same for sample-level audio editing. And something becoming simpler does not mean it's become less pro.

Anyway, this was advertised as a "sneak peak", so I wasn't surprised that it left a lot of questions, and as has been said, none of us are in a position to draw proper conclusions yet.

Now for a little prediction of my own: does anyone think Apple might offer some of the features from Color, Motion, Soundtrack, Compressor, as well as some of the stuff they've left out from FCP7, as "extended features" you can download from the App Store as plug-ins? Along with third-party plug-ins (in exchange for a 30% cut)? I hope I don't have to open FCP just to use Compressor though...


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Terence Curren
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 2:59:48 pm

[Keith Pratt] "Colour management isn't an iMovie feature. Nor is 4K. Same for sample-level audio editing. And something becoming simpler does not mean it's become less pro."

And when did I say anything about these things? I predicted using the iMovie code as a base, and adding features that FCP editors would want. It is much easier to do that than to try to rewrite FCP from the ground up.

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca


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Craig Seeman
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:07:18 am

Terence, I do think the MacPro business model itself may change.
I can envision a MacPro with, let's say 3 Thunderbolt ports and no PCIe ports. It could be use as rack mount (the new XServe) or desktop with lots of Thunderbolt input and storage devices daisy changed. It could drop down to something close to iMac prices. I don't think you're wrong but I do think there's a combination of price and mass sales Apple is aiming for. Personally I think they'll hit it.

Apple is about ecosystems and I do think they're making another major change in what is the "high" end "professional." We're really come a long way from the multimillion dollar edit suite with washing machine sized 2 inch machines or smaller 1" machines with channels of ADO and expensive GVG switchers . . . and Apple has had a lot to do with that.

The $1700 16 core "MacPro" without PCIe slots or internal hard drives will sell massively more than the $4000 models we see now. It will be the iPad of "Pro" machines.

Who would of thunk that Apple would reinvent commodity pricing as a PROFITABLE business model but look at the iPad pricing compared to competitors and the massive sales and massive profits.

But do keep in mind that iPhones are not as cheap as many Android phones. It's just that they have a very profitable business model. Somewhere in there is Apple's new "Pro" direction. It's not the decline or dumbing down of features though. It is better cost efficiency and business model though.

FCP is designed to move hardware though.



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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:51:49 am

[Craig Seeman] "Let's remember that Apple's business model is to use software to sell hardware. They're thinking about all the MacPro they're going to sell to push all this real time and background render to the max as we aim for the fastest possible workflows on impossibly tighter client deadlines (and tighter budgets)."

I'm here with Terrence.
That's not the rationale here. It's simply a new application that fits in new ecosystem of Google, You Tube and social media.
It's an application for masses not for few.

Why build a suite that will cost them $millions to develop (and further $millions to upgrade, R&D etc)
and sell it to thousands users for $2K when we can sell it for $500 to MILLIONS of users.

So, new online ecosystem dictates everything, tags, vord recognition, face recognition all that perfectly fits with Google, You Tube, Facebook and iTunes sharing revolution.
We loved the democratization of video that started a decade a go (and all benefits that came with it: lower price, competition among 3A etc.) , now... the democratization has gone a bit to far for our taste.

We just have to forget about Apple and look around... (at least they are still making great hardware,
I mean CS5 already works better and is more advanced on Apple's hardware then Apple's software)
That fact (CS5 innovation dominance) was a sign for me of things to come, and today.

It's like a lover that was suspicious of his girlfriend cheating on him, all signs were there, but big love blinded him and he kept convincing himself; she still loves me.. Today is the day he caught her in flagrante :)


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Craig Seeman
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:20:55 am

I think you're making a fundamentally wrong assumption. Although we've only seen a small piece, I think FCP will be very much a PROFESSIONAL app. It's scalable to the user's experience/capabilities. Thunderbolt is NOT going to be in demand for most consumers. A well designed editing app has a lot to do with making difficult work easier. That's not less professional at all. It's certainly not when there's more power and flexibility added as well. Assuming Apple has not committed any faux pas with features not yet revealed, I think this will be a big hit in the higher end markets.

I'm old enough to remember people thinking Avid was a toy in 1989 because it cost much less than a multi million dollar linear edit room and the ABVB images were so bad as to be nearly unusable for accurate editing. Heck there was nothing in there to replace an ADO really either.

FCP was a nice consumer toy in 1999. No match for an Avid Media Composer at all.

Apple is creating another pivotal point in post production workflow. This ain't going to be no toy even if it's at the very early stages of the transition.



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Scott Sheriff
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:25:09 pm

"Let's remember that Apple's business model is to use software to sell hardware. They're thinking about all the MacPro they're going to sell to push all this real time and background render to the max as we aim for the fastest possible workflows on impossibly tighter client deadlines (and tighter budgets)."

There is no free lunch. No transcoding for long GOP formats takes horsepower. 64 bit, and using all the cores is great. Unless you don't have a lot of cores to start with.
All that background rendering is going to kill all those that cheaped out and didn't buy the biggest, baddest machine they could get.
Snow Leopard means all those non-Intel machines are boat anchors.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:48:11 am

[Craig Harris] "I felt the same way when DaVinci Resolve was released for $995 - however, we now know that the cost cut did not take away anything from the product."

This is definitely the best response that I have heard for this issue so thank you! My concern now though is really the rest of the studio. We don't know what is happening with any of the other applications which is extremely important. While it looks like Color and Sound Track are getting incorporated into Final Cut Pro X, we'll need more information on DVD Studio Pro, Motion and Cinema Tools as they become available to really judge everything more accurately. Seems like that's where all these are getting to really. Just not enough information out now.

Panasonic HPX170 P
2008 Unibody Macbook Pro 15 inch, 2.8 Ghz, 4GB RAM
CalDigit VR
Final Cut Pro Studio 3
Avid Media Composer
The College of WIlliam and Mary


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Terence Curren
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:57:07 am

[Matthew Sonnenfeld] "While it looks like Color and Sound Track are getting incorporated into Final Cut Pro X, we'll need more information on DVD Studio Pro, Motion and Cinema Tools as they become available to really judge everything more accurately. "


Apple are masters of marketing. What they don't say, they don't want to be part of the conversation. I really feel there is a lot of "damage control" mentality in this whole thing from the "Secret" preview that was allowed to be talked about in February, to this VERY last minute, poorly handled from a PR point of view, NAB "premiere."


I would bet that if you didn't hear about it tonight, it probably isn't going to be there. At least no in this iteration.

DVD Studio Pro? Are you kidding, that is so floppy disk yesterday.

Cinema Tools? Are you kidding, film is so dead.

Color? Are you kidding, didn't you see FCP X? It has auto color correct, and shapes in the color corrector.

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca


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Les Kaye
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:17:30 am

[Craig Harris] "Lightworks is now free and used on more big budget features than any other offline editing suite (King's Speech - recent film)."

Uh, care to document this, or should it just be considered hyperbole?

http://www.leskaye.net


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Chris Conlee
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:22:26 am

Yeah, I'd call BS on this. About 95% of all big budget features are cut on Avid.


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Les Kaye
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 8:17:46 am

[Chris Conlee] "Yeah, I'd call BS on this. About 95% of all big budget features are cut on Avid."

Since it appears that at least 5 of the Academy Award Best Picture nominees were cut on FCP (with the FCP edited The Social Network winning), you might want to revise this number as well.

http://www.leskaye.net


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Terence Curren
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:58:09 am

Not tape I/O.

Gee I wonder who predicted that?




Signed,
Mr. "Uninformed"

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca


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Craig Seeman
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:12:31 am

Hmm, nobody has asked the questions I have and they may have even been shown so I'll ask in case someone who attended can answer.

Prologue so you understand my disposition.
I really like all the new features as described. They sound both fast and user friendly.
I was an Avid editor from 1989 to 2001 before moving to FCP (which really wasn't an Avid competitor at the time though).

Now the concerns/questions.
I really need to see the source/viewer window video at the same size as the Canvas. I don't get how I can accurately mark an in and out otherwise. Can someone explain how this is done? I have to believe this must have been shown and you can accurately mark points on a "picon" (at least not at my age).

One thing I've never been quite happy with about FCP compared to Avid is trimming. Avid's Trim Window was/is excellent. FCP's awkward (IMHO) and timeline trimming required mouse dragging to see in/out video. Keyboard trimming didn't show that. Does interactive trimming using keyboard show you in/out video frames?

Everything else really does sound excellent. Of course there's a gazillion questions but Apple didn't answer them so they're not worth asking yet.

For me marking in/out on source accurately and trimming are really the lifeblood of fast editing and I can't fathom how it's done although it seems to have been explained. BTW there was a mostly audio Ustream live stream as well as a decent live blog and Twitter updates so I have a good non visual picture of what was show and explained.

Can anyone who was there comment on my two questions?


___
A personal message for those who fear change. Get over it.
My first edit systems I worked on were CMX 340 and Paltex/Datatron.
The first NLE was CMX 6000 laser disk system.
I used Avid from the very early days.
I thought FCP had major conveniences compared to Avid even before it was a true competitor.
I'd be functional on FCPX within a week.
I love change! Good companies really do think about workflow improvements and Apple ranks amongst them.
I've also seen companies make just one or two bonehead workflow assumptions that otherwise hinder a good app. Hence my questions.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:07:42 am

While re-inventing the wheel I just hope Apple doens't forget what was good with the first wheel they created. As a long-term FCP editor (start with the first PAL-verison of FCP 1.2 was it?) I love they've made a try at re-writing the whole application. I think however an issue FCP or rather Final Cut Studio has is the simple facts it's become very fragmented due to having not one but 5-6 apps in the suite. Who should receive some love in the coming upgrade?

At the moment I have more questions / concerns than feeling "wow, this is awesome!". If FCPX is anything near the later versions of iMovie Apple really needs to think twice at what they are doing. Anyhow, a few concerns are:

- i/o options (i.e. working to / from tape or digital files)
- monitoring options (i.e. working with videocards)
- GUI flexibility (where is the source-window, where are the scopes, can you use mulitple timelines, how does the app work in different workspaces with multiple screens, where do we edit clip parameters etc)
- Effects and animation architecture (how has the out-dated effects / animation engine changed? how will third-party add-ons work?)
- Project format, in / exporting (is XML still there? how does FCP play with other apps?)
- Currently lacking features (TC-handling, project management and conforming issues, support for image sequence formats, old buggy graphics engine etc)

..and the list goes on. Personally I'm not so worried about loosing Motion or Soundtrack Pro - or Color for that matter with the recent update of Reslove. However, a lot of people are using these apps on a daily basis (Color is still my grading app of choice!) and I really hope these stay around. I think the issue is, FCP is being used by everything from "the Blogger" (which can range from very professional to non-professional) to TV-commercial editing or feature film editing. It's used for "offline" or creative editing and "online" or finishing editing - the later largely in conjunction with other applications like Color, Resolve and After Effects. This is one of FCP's and QuickTime's strength but this is also an area the can be improved in. What parts have Apple kept and what have they said "we'll just wait and see what the crowd says".

Premier Pro is now a re-written app since something like 8 years back. It's still in some regards playing catch-up with FCP in terms of features but it's also innovated in areas where FCP is lacking. Will FCPX see this "slowly growing" future now that they've start from a blank slate? So many questions, so few answers.

I guess in the end we do have a lot of options.. Sort of. Avid Media Composer for $995 is an interesting option. Sadly they are still a bit I have to say anal in regards to what monitoring hardware you can use. Premier Pro is getting there for sure and it's more in line with FCP in terms of hardware support. Then you also have Smoke for OSX. Well that's a different beast all together (and sadly it requires different hardware then Resolve to run). With FCPX being a new cat on the block I really hope Apple has done their homework and haven't forgotten about the true video professionals. What they did with QuickTime X and iMovie makes me really, really worry though..

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Helmut Kobler
What's Missing
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:15:13 am

Every time Apple "reinvents" a product, it has to leave out a lot of features that existed in previous versions or competitors versions. When OS X was released, it couldn't even play DVD movies. When the iPhone was released, it had no bloody ToDo list, MMS, etc. etc. When the "reinvented" iMovie was released, it lost a ton of effects, audio tools, etc. When QuickTime X was launched in Snow Leopard, it lost all those great editing features I had used for years in QuickTIme Pro.

So....

What will Apple leave out of this newly reinvented Final Cut Pro?? I bet it will leave out a fair amount of non-glitzy-but-still-very-useful-and-mature features, and it will take a good couple of years to get it all back. That's dangerous territory for a product that has already languished for the last few years, with competitors like Avid and Adobe updating their products at a fast pace.

For me, this new FInal Cut hardly puts to rest my concerns for the app's long-term viability...

-------------------
Documentary Camera
http://www.varicaminla.com


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Victor Perez
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:17:36 am

I must admit. I was caught up in the whole Apple presentation. Flashy, fast, and impressive. Many of the new features got overwhelming cheers from me as well. but after letting it all settle for a while, it seems there are more questions now than during the entire run of the rumors. I understand that this was only a demo, but I am not in agreement with the select few who have seen the demo before tonight. well actually I am. For $299 it is amaizing.

Victor
http://www.editvictor.com
http://www.hbhm.tv
http://www.itvisus.com


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David Jahns
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:24:45 am

My impressions are that Terrence has been right, much to my dismay. It seems Apple is making a very user friendly tool for "in the box" work - in one system and back out in final format - all from one editor/colorist/sound designer... And there is certainly a huge potential for that.

And all of the new timeline tools they showed tonight looked great - but if that comes at the expense of NOT being friendly in a pro environment, where different people perform different tasks - handing off audio to a soudn mixer, EDL/XML export, etc... - then this new product will not work for many people.

maybe they will have to go back to Avid, and maybe the price points will make that business model impossible to maintain.

FOP X might get laughed off as a toy, just like the first one did - and it certainly revolutionized the lower & middle tiers of the industry, but it wasn't until they added pro features that it was used by features and broadcast environments. Maybe those environments are dead in the long term, and maybe Apple really is going "where the puck will be" - but if all of that interaction support is not there, we'll be right back where we were with FCP 1 - great tool for hobbyists, and 'finish in the box' pros, but not for the higher end workflows.

Anyone want to bet if there will be any Oscar nominated films cut with FCP X this year or next?

Why not take 30 seconds to open the red clip and show the access to the raw color data? Why not drop a bone or two to the high end crowd to show you're not abandoning them? And no mention at all of any other parts of the suite? Not even a "more to come later" tease...?

Overall, I'm very disappointed in the entire event - why take over the whole night for a 45 minute tease? Why not just do that in the 2nd half of the show?

David Jahns
Joint Editorial
Portland, OR


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:52:42 am

Well if they have support for "4K workflows" I'd be very surpriced if they forgot to have / keep an open architecture for A/V workflow to and from FCP.

- OMF or AAF
- XML and EDL

Never the less I found these bullets on a site I presume is a recap from the show (might be correct, might be an interpretation of what was said):

- 64 bit
- Unlimited menory
- Uses Open CLI and Grand Central Dispatch
- Color fully managed with ColorSync
- Resolution independent playback system up to 4K
- Mix & match all content in timeline without transcoding
- No rendering, it does it in the background using every available CPU cycle
- Can plug into cameras and edit whilst ingesting
- Non destructive color balance on ingest
- Stabilisation on ingest
- Audio cleanup on ingest
- People and shot detection
- Range based keywording - metadata attached to part of a clip
- Smart collections - like smart folders
- Clip connections, primary and secondary media locking together
- Magnetic timeline -moves audio out of the way to avoid collisions.
- Single keystroke nesting
- Compound clips - collapse clips into a single clip
- Inline precision editor - simplifies trimming of clips
- Auditioning - sampling of different versions of edits
- 'Skimming' media previews when you move the cursor over
- iMovie like filmstrip view
- Timeline Index- an index of all the clips in the timeline
- Sync clips with Plural Eyes style featue (Not Plural Eyes)
- Automatic control of number of tracks - add and go when needed
- Pitch corrected audio skimming
- Waveforms show levels in realtime
- Retiming in the timeline
- One click to match color between clips
- New advanced color correction
- Improved keyframing, bezier paths and curve display in the timeline
- Color & Soundtrack now in FCPX

To me this sounds very good all in all. It also sounds like we're moving to a focus on metadata and a "smart" application. This should if anything enhance the options for external i/o with other apps, but this is still a huge unknown. Being a what is it.. 12-13 year editor in FCP I do get a little worried as it's always been my editor of choice. I've also moved from the "spare time / short-flicks editor" to working as a full time online operator. So over the years I've used FCP in a variety of ways and in it's current shape it's very flexible. That said, all of the above are major improvements.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Mark Palmos
no hints dropped, sadly...
on Apr 13, 2011 at 8:21:45 am

[Erik Lindahl] "I found these bullets on a site I presume is a recap from the show (might be correct, might be an interpretation of what was said):"

Hello all and good morning...

Thanks for the list Erik, it's good to see in one list like that, and yes, there are several of those that make me grin with pleasure...

If all those new features were there AND we were not losing ANY of the functionality we have with Motion, Compressor, DVDSP, Color, Soundtrack, I would be reasonably pleased, though I desperately want improvements to Motion too.

Most tellingly about last night IMO is that Apple (usually masters of selling up their products) made ZERO mention of the Studio, not so much as a wink and smug "...and that is not all..."

IF there was ANY more, do you not think Apple of all people would have taken this huge opportunity to create EVEN MORE buzz by dropping just ONE hint?

Dang!

I would love to see how beziers in the timeline would do all and more than what Motion currently does. I have deep doubts about that one.

Mark.


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Marcus Samuel-Gaskin
Re: no hints dropped, sadly...
on Apr 13, 2011 at 9:04:58 am

From Larry's blog "After the presentation, I spoke with Richard Townhill, Director of Pro Video Product Marketing for Apple (who served as the host for Apple’s presentation) who told me that “the purpose of today is to focus exclusively on Final Cut Pro, highlight some of the new features, and give people a chance to see and comment on the new interface. We will have much more to say about both Final Cut and our other applications in the future."

Larry continues This does not mean these other applications are dead – simply that Apple is not talking about them… yet."

source: Larry's Blog @ larryjordan.biz


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Mark Palmos
Re: no hints dropped, sadly...
on Apr 13, 2011 at 9:16:00 am

[Marcus Samuel-Gaskin] "Larry continues This does not mean these other applications are dead – simply that Apple is not talking about them… yet.""

Hi Marcus,

That sounds promising... I do wonder why no mention was made of it last night in public though, it would have caused positive enthusiasm instead of the present instability and doubt.

tx
Mark


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Rafael Amador
Re: Really awesome
on Apr 13, 2011 at 9:36:36 am

Now I know that I have FC for at least another 10 years.
I don't understand so much concern around.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Really awesome
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:48:50 pm

[Rafael Amador] "Now I know that I have FC for at least another 10 years.
I don't understand so much concern around."


The concern is a lot of folks (including myself) use the entire suite of apps, not just FC. So far in reviewing the list of features and thinking about all the unanswered questions, I'm not inclined to reinvent my wheel.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...


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Rafael Amador
Re: Really awesome
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:00:29 pm

[Scott Sheriff] "The concern is a lot of folks (including myself) use the entire suite of apps, not just FC."
The rest of the suit is coming.
BTW, are you sure you can not use the rest of the FCS3 applications with FC-X?

People talk about "reinvention"?
What reinvention?
Apple wants to reinvent the computer, no the user or the application.
Reinventing video editing?(AVID tried long ago)

I haven't had time to go through all the info.
I just had a look to the new interface and for what I see FCX won't complicate my life.
Just few new things to learn.
Apple is just making FC works properly and be able to grow-up.

Almost no-learning-curve is one of the reasons of the FC success. Apple knows it and they won't screw this now.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Erik Lindahl
Re: no hints dropped, sadly...
on Apr 13, 2011 at 9:58:38 am

Reading Larry's blog I actually get less worried:
The new Final Cut Pro is a bold move – a totally redesigned interface, 64-bit memory addressing, multi-processor support, tight integration of metadata in the project file with metadata stored in the clip not just in the project, heavy use of automation to simplify tedious tasks, and a rethinking of the entire concept of what it means to edit.

Metadata stored in the clip means QuickTime is getting an internal "face lift". It also, potentially, means Apple is serious about "pro applications" in terms of work flow. Meta-data stored in the media is a very good move and should if anything make FCP talk better with other applications. Potentially features like white-balance / auto color correction can be store in the meta-data.

* Sample rate precision in scrolling an audio clip

This is a huge change for me. I often to presisson audio edits and feel it's crazy I have to send it to a protools system (or STP).

* Pitch corrected audio scrolling in slow motion

Brilliant. Just shot a music-video this weekend with a mixture of 25p and 50p. I do however ask the question "how will mixed formats and frame-rates be handled, can I for example work in a 25p time-line and get real slowmotion from 50p content?".

* Displaying waveforms at a size big enough to see what they look like
* Displaying audio levels within the waveform that are approaching clipping (as one engineer near me remarked, “And THAT took us a LONG while to figure out.”)
* Displaying audio peaks for the entire mix that are approaching clipping
* Improved audio cleanup controls, which can be applied or ignored by the user (these look to be borrowed from Soundtrack Pro)

All brilliant auditions. I wonder if they've added loudness monitoring as well. I also wonder how they handle these real "pro" features - scopes, wave-form monitors etc.

I think Larry sums it up in the end: The devil is ALWAYS in the details. Even with all these new features there are 100 unknowns. It also boils down to the fact that the above features work as advertised and that's not always the case.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Steve Connor
Re: no hints dropped, sadly...
on Apr 13, 2011 at 10:08:53 am

Personally I am very happy about the announcement, lots of great stuff and a new code base to build even more into it. I'm looking forward to trying it out in June, meanwhile here's a good quality shot of the new interface.

Cue speculation on what all the new buttons do!

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article/2011/04/13/014726-fcpscreen.jpg

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Mark Palmos
Re: no hints dropped, sadly...
on Apr 13, 2011 at 12:19:21 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "I think Larry sums it up in the end: The devil is ALWAYS in the details. Even with all these new features there are 100 unknowns. It also boils down to the fact that the above features work as advertised and that's not always the case."

Hi Erik,

Also a big question is how many existing features will have been removed due to "not enough time to implement the entire feature set due to a rewrite of the code". This is what happened to Premiere Pro when it was re-written twice (if my memory serves me, I think it was 6.5>CS1 as well as from CS2>CS3)

Anyhoo, we will all have 20-20 vision in about two months...

Cheers,
Mark.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: no hints dropped, sadly...
on Apr 13, 2011 at 12:46:37 pm

This is exactly what happened to Premier and it's a risk one takes when doing this type of transition. Apple has to be very proactive and addressing people's needs in future updates. I was surprised to see some "new features" in Premier from CS4 > CS5 and even now in CS5.5 that I have been taking for granted in FCP for years.

There is also a risk in making a product more "broad" given it can be good as well. However, if you have 1 million users complaining about "The share to facebook feature is broken" or "The face-detection system isn't working" and Apple puts focus on cra.. features like that, it might lose focus on the "pro issues" with what ever that can be (conforming of more complex projects, addressing i/o or format issues, making a rock-solid round-tripping to external applicaiton etc).

But all this is speculation so we can't really say ANYTHING until Apple reveals something more. I wouldn't mind either if FCPX requires MacOSX Lion and that we there is a / the massive over-haul to QuickTime we've needed for years.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Russell Lasson
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 2:09:21 pm

That is a very good list. But while ther are creatures from Color and Soundtrack in FCPX, there is no evidence currently that they won't exist on their own.

Russ

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


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Benjamin Reichman
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:36:41 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Now the concerns/questions.
I really need to see the source/viewer window video at the same size as the Canvas. I don't get how I can accurately mark an in and out otherwise. Can someone explain how this is done? I have to believe this must have been shown..."


Can anyone comment on this? How does iMovie handle that, and is it the same in FCP X? I'm generally pleased (enthusiastic, even) about most of what I've heard, but this seems like a bizarre sticking point. I don't need a traditional Viewer/Canvas model, but I need two large views of my outgoing frame in the timeline and the ingoing frame that I'm considering using.


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Keith Hamm
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:41:17 am

The new interface had me reaching for my barf bag. Still lots of very unanswered questions. If I was a FCP only shop looking at this demo I'd be VERY nervous right now about the money I have invested in a FCP pipeline. Shake anyone?

What of TRIM? What about a COLLABORATIVE PROJECT ENVIRONMENT? SERVER BASED TECHNOLOGY? And MEDIA MANAGEMENT? Weakest parts of FCP I can tell you first hand, the lack of media management in FCP is an assistant’s nightmare. I’m dealing with it on a daily basis.

Oh but it will sync the sound for you. Have you seen what it can do with iChat and this magnetic timeline?

So lame but we've come to expect consumer products now from Apple. I hope Avid is paying attention. They are more than long overdue on their own full re-write.

-K


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 12:50:01 pm

These are my concerns as well given.. An app like Shake can be replaced (After Effect to a degree or Nuke). I gather FCP can be tighter integrated than an app like Shake but I really don't think Apple would kill that eco-system. That would ruin the application for higher-end markets.

I don't see why they can't make a scaleable app. It sounds like it but we still have many unknowns.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Marcus Samuel-Gaskin
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:50:41 pm

"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."


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Mark Palmos
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:51:16 pm

[Marcus Samuel-Gaskin] "the ones we don't know we don't know"

it's all empty and meaningless marcus, empty and meaningless, and meaningless THAT it's empty and meaningless
;)


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:13:36 pm

[Keith Hamm] "The new interface had me reaching for my barf bag. Still lots of very unanswered questions. If I was a FCP only shop looking at this demo I'd be VERY nervous right now about the money I have invested in a FCP pipeline. Shake anyone?

What of TRIM? What about a COLLABORATIVE PROJECT ENVIRONMENT? SERVER BASED TECHNOLOGY? And MEDIA MANAGEMENT? Weakest parts of FCP I can tell you first hand, the lack of media management in FCP is an assistant’s nightmare. I’m dealing with it on a daily basis.

Oh but it will sync the sound for you. Have you seen what it can do with iChat and this magnetic timeline?

So lame but we've come to expect consumer products now from Apple. I hope Avid is paying attention. They are more than long overdue on their own full re-write."


Keith,
I agree . One part of the new interface I did like is that it's dark. That is a problem for the current UI. It would be nice if the biggest font size for the UI could have a bigger range. I hate wearing reading glasses when I'm editing. Not everyone that uses FC is a 20-something with 20/20 vision.
Media Manager isn't completely broken, but it certainly could have some huge improvements. You hit some other weak areas. Here are some others that seemed to have been swept under the rug.
Nesting has never worked as advertised, and causes more problems then it solves.
FXScript. A great, but underused function. No mention of still having this feature.
Video Scopes accuracy has always been lacking.
Timecode. It would be a great thing to have the ability to alter source TC's. I know this can cause problems, but it would be a welcome option to fix broken/wrong code.
And like you, I'm sarcastic on the syncing sound for you thing. A basic editing function. The 'feature' seems to be aimed at the 'johnny-come-latelys'.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...


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Tom Babauta
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 19, 2011 at 7:21:12 pm

I have an honest question for my fellow professionals in the post production world. It seems like at this point, everyone is at the mercy of Apple -- from hardware to software to workflows. They say you don't new Xserve, so they kill it just like that. They say Shake sucks, so they kill it just like that. They don't care how many people have built an entire working ecosystem on their products, if it ceases to be profitable, then they cut it off.

Adobe has made alot of improvements over the years, and from PrePro CS3 to the venerable CS5, which has had ALOT of the FCPX features for the last year [since NAB 2010], why havent you made the shift yet? Is there something wrong with PPCS5? Is there something FCP can do that CS5 can't? CS5 can in fact open FCP projects now [and Avid] via XML import, so thats something to consider about backward compatibility.

I personally am both a PrePro and an FCP user, and I am a bit frustrated that PrePro, in its current incarnation as CS5/5.5 doesnt get any "love" from the pros in the post-production industry. In my opinion, if the pros in the industry supported this very useful piece of software, then it would progress very fast with 3rd party plugin support, workflow enhancements, etc.

FCP got the love way back version 1.0, and look where it is now. Widely used in the industry with alot of 3rd party support to make up for its short comings -- true import of image sequences, inter operability with other industry standard software, etc.

Why is CS5 getting this much resistance, especially now that it is both Mac and PC friendly, and works really well with our most loved imaging software like AFX and Photoshop?

Just an honest question.



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Paul Provost
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 19, 2011 at 7:26:46 pm

[Tom Babauta] "Why is CS5 getting this much resistance, especially now that it is both Mac and PC friendly, and works really well with our most loved imaging software like AFX and Photoshop?"

for us it's because premiere doesn't work with kona 3
but that's solved with a new decklink card which is probably what will happen as we will need it anyway for davinci8

http://www.postandbeam.tv
grade and finish @ post + beam


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 19, 2011 at 7:45:04 pm

[Tom Babauta] "Why is CS5 getting this much resistance, especially now that it is both Mac and PC friendly, and works really well with our most loved imaging software like AFX and Photoshop?"

There are many reasons for this phenomenon, but let me just give you one of the primary explanations.

Premiere had a bad spell for quite a while, not so long ago, and hat turned off a lot of users and would-be users. Keep in mind, it did not handle long-form projects well. It would only allow one open sequence at a time. And, it was known to crash a lot.

So, you may say, those are things of the past. And, that's probably true. However, FCP has been rock solid for years. And, while Microsoft's OS has had it's ups and downs, Apple OS X has been chugging along mighty smoothly since day 1.

So, FCP simply became trusted by a lot of people, and the more people used it, the more people could share their projects and workflows, because so many of their peers were using it.

The fact that BM and AJA were building the best and most open video I/O devices in the market exclusively for FCP didn't hurt either.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Welcome Final Cut X
on Apr 19, 2011 at 8:10:52 pm

David certainly covered some of it.

A lot of us have invested in FCP/Motion plugins. Switching to something simply because one hopes that some day the equivalent plugins might happen maybe isn't viable. It's interesting to note how many plugins are marketed as FCP/Motion. I don't seem to see that marketing with AfterEffects plugins working in Premiere.

All NLEs have shortcomings. One would generally have to find a shortcoming mission critical or a feature in another NLE so critical so as to overcome its perceived shortcomings to result in a switch that would be worth the hours of time needed to get to a matching level of proficiency.

Premiere was looking more promising recently, for many, given the lack of improvements in FCP but FCPX sneak peak probably put a stall or an outright stop to that. One can only guess but it may have even influenced what Apple decided to show in the sneak peak. I'd guess that, despite all the questions people still have about FCPX, bringing up background rendering and native codec support in the time line was key to causing the stall . . . since I suspect people would be making their purchasing decisions after the conclusion of NAB. Basically Apple responded to things like Avid AMA, Adobe Mercury Engine to some extent. When some SneakPeak critics say, "but other NLEs have had those features" . . . well that's EXACTLY why Apple had to show those.



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