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Jeremy Garchow
E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 6, 2012 at 9:29:50 pm

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-57391758-264/intel-launches-e5-xeons-a-fa...

This article also includes a use of analogies, so be careful.

Stay thirsty my friends.

Jeremy


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 6, 2012 at 9:46:37 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This article also includes a use of analogies, so be careful."

From the article: "It's like you leave all the lights on in your house," even when rooms are unused, Graff said. The E5 series includes technology to throttle back unused parts of the chip. "This is like dimming the lights as people leave the rooms," she said."

... seems to be a good example of persuasive analogy.

Franz.


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Herb Sevush
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 6, 2012 at 9:54:06 pm

"Early models of the chips have seen real-world use already. More than 100,000 have shipped, said Lisa Graff, general manager of data center platform engineering, in a press conference here."

So assuming Apple has only been waiting for official release of these chips, if they don't release new MacPros within a month can we say that the MacPro line is done? This is not argumentative on my part, I'm really trying to figure out how long to wait before committing to another platform.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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John Heagy
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 6, 2012 at 10:06:04 pm

[Herb Sevush] "if they don't release new MacPros within a month can we say that the MacPro line is done?"

I would expect an EOL announcement like they did for the Xserve.

This, and the incompatibility of GPU PCIe cards via Thunderbolt expansion chassis, gives me great hope a MacPro with a couple PCIe slots is coming.

Apple's not shy about announcing EOL of products and technology.


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Herb Sevush
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 6, 2012 at 10:09:06 pm

[John Heagy] "Apple's not shy about announcing EOL of products and technology."

That line made me laugh. It's the understatement of last year.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Andrew Richards
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 6, 2012 at 10:18:27 pm

[Herb Sevush] "So assuming Apple has only been waiting for official release of these chips, if they don't release new MacPros within a month can we say that the MacPro line is done?"

I'd say so.

Best,
Andy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 6, 2012 at 10:55:32 pm

[Herb Sevush] "So assuming Apple has only been waiting for official release of these chips, if they don't release new MacPros within a month can we say that the MacPro line is done? This is not argumentative on my part, I'm really trying to figure out how long to wait before committing to another platform."

It's a good question.

There's been 100,000 shipped. Who received them first? Apple? HP? Everyone? In what quantities, and which chips? Single or double?

Let's say Apple has 10,000 of them (or perhaps less, lets say it's 3,000 or 3%, or whatever Apple's PCI desktop marketshare is).

How long does it take to get CPUs shipped, soldered to a motherboard, tested, packaged, and shipped out to the world?

A month?

I don't know and we probably won't know. I can't imagine that Apple will hold out for too much longer without making some sort of announcement.

There's that "iPad 3" thing tomorrow. Maybe they will take the opportunity to say something at that time, then again maybe not.

Jeremy


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Craig Seeman
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 6, 2012 at 11:20:06 pm

There's already rumors that Apple has another event planed March 16. Rumors range from a "store" event to AppleTV update. I can't imagine a MacPro event but if it's a store event one might hope that one component might be MacPros going on sale. OK this is just in the wishful thinking department but . . .



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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 6, 2012 at 11:53:05 pm

[Craig Seeman] "There's already rumors that Apple has another event planed March 16. Rumors range from a "store" event to AppleTV update. I can't imagine a MacPro event but if it's a store event one might hope that one component might be MacPros going on sale. OK this is just in the wishful thinking department but . . ."


Titillating thoughts, Craig.

I suspect that Apple will be sneaking out a model or two of its television systems, not AppleTV but a TV from Apple…with a lot of extra bells and whistles. Well beyond what AppleTV has been in the past.

I expect to see an iOS-based home theater centerpiece that ties together and lets you manage your email, website, blogs, social media channels, music, your television shows, provides pay-per-view and is all fueled by a powerful search function.

That's what I am expecting to see. I could be a little early but Apple has sucker-punched the audience more than a few times over the years. They could surprise us all.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those that matter, don't mind -- and those that mind, don't matter." - Dr. Seuss


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Frank Gothmann
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 12:31:12 am

Well, in case there are no new MacPros, HPs has just announced its E5 Xeon based Z820.
6 PCIe slots, five of them Gen3 plus one legacy PCI, USB3 built in, 16 memory slots that can hold up to 512 GB of Ram.

http://www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-296719-307907-4270224-52...'>http://h10010.http://www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-296719-307907-4270224-52...


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 12:51:36 am

[Frank Gothmann] "Well, in case there are no new MacPros, HPs has just announced its E5 Xeon based Z820.
6 PCIe slots, five of them Gen3 plus one legacy PCI, USB3 built in, 16 memory slots that can hold up to 512 GB of Ram."


Does it ship with OSX?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 1:01:48 am

"Expected ship April 2012"


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John Pale
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 2:29:16 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Does it ship with OSX?"

It just might...all it would take is a willingness to license to HP.

You know I don't think they dropped "Mac" from Mac OSX just to stick an "i" in front of it in the future.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 2:46:13 am

[John Pale] "You know I don't think they dropped "Mac" from Mac OSX just to stick an "i" in front of it in the future."

As many problems that would "solve", and as optimistic I try to be about all of this, I would be very shocked if this happened.

Except for a few brief stints, Apple has always controlled their hardware environment pretty tightly.

I'm asking becuase I don't know, but what would be the advantage to license OSX?

It can't be about the money as they probably don't need that particular revenue stream and the support system that would create, but is it about the money? Putting OSX in the hands of more people? What's the advantage there?

This would also mean you could run OSX on portables, a segment where Apple does very well.

I don't know, it would make our Pro lives easier, but it'd make everyone else's lives more difficult and Apple would have to give up major amounts of control.

Or maybe I'm being too closed minded? I'd love to hear hypothetical advantages to OS licensing.


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Andrew Richards
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 2:52:40 am

There are none for Apple. It simply won't happen. OS X is what sells Macs, which is where the money is. Apple sells the total experience. It just won't happen.

Best,
Andy


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John Pale
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 6:02:13 pm

Fair enough.....

But if it keeps a facility an all Mac shop....often a post house or facility will also have MacBook Pros, iMacs, etc. in addition to their MacPros....and spares Apple having to build an unprofitable line of machines..they might consider it. If fact, I am sure they are, at least looking at it.

They get a licensing fee from HP...the video/film pros get a pro workstation running OSX, and Apple doesn't have to build, sell and support machines that don't make them much money.

I don't think this will be like the old Power Computing, UMAX clones of old. This will be strictly controlled by EFI. Only, high end workstation and server configurations available.

Again...they dropped "Mac" for a reason. I don't buy that it has anything to do with iOS.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 8:07:26 pm

[John Pale] "I don't think this will be like the old Power Computing, UMAX clones of old. This will be strictly controlled by EFI. Only, high end workstation and server configurations available."

It's a valid point, John. It would surely be great for people like us.

Jeremy


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 10:33:12 pm

I had to smile reading the people on this thread speculating about the possibility of officially licensed Mac OS on an HP Workstation.

For years, Tim Wilson and I have talked about the idea of HP providing workstations that run the Mac OS. (Not every PC manufacturer, just HP.)

Why HP?

It is why we actively focused on getting them involved at the COW. We believe that when the smoke clears, the most rabid Mac professionals on the planet -- the ones running über-powerful systems that need slots, cards, etc. -- will find themselves dancing with Apple and HP. Either as dual platform shops, or if it goes as we suspect, Apple will license a sole PC vendor to work with. We think that will be HP.

Over the years as Tim Wilson and I have hammered on where the growing "i-focusing" at Apple would take things, Tim said to me one day that "There is now just one true workstation left: HP's Z series, that's it."

It had been years since Apple built a new one. They had killed XServe. They had swept away things like XSan, Shake, FCP, Color and other pro initiatives.

It was not hard to envision an Apple in which they would not want to lose their highest end customers, while simultaneously finding themselves becoming ever increasingly unwilling to directly supply them.

Why? For the very same reasons that had killed all the products mentioned two paragraphs back.

Even if Apple builds a new workstation, the harsh reality is that it will grow increasingly difficult for Apple to focus on a market so ancillary to what the company's focus is.

HP's workstation division is dedicated to serving that market around the world and does it well, always pushing the limits of where things are today.

We believe that it would be a win-win to both camps. Apple users averse to running Windows directly would stay with their OS of choice, while Apple works with a single source whose commitment to building servers is unparalleled -- and whose corporate ethos of quality is akin to Apple's own.

A bonus is that for a change, Mac users would get rid of the goofy OpenGL they've endured for years. The double-and-more cost of high-end video cards would end for Mac users.

When I saw my first HP Z-800 at a press event, I told their VP/GM and the VP Marketing that "it out-Macs my Mac." It was clear that HP had looked at all the best stuff about Apple and had raised the bar when it comes to expectations in a workstation.

Unfortunately, for many users, running Windows is not something they want to do. But even the most dedicated Apple user needing real workstation power would have trouble saying no to a Z-Series HP Workstation running Mac OS.

Now if only the team in Cupertino, California would get on the phone with the people in Fort Collins, Colorado.

Apple is having to look at the proliferation of sites dedicated to the Hacintosh. So, a real joint venture looks to me to be well-timed and one that would be fortuitous to all involved.

Those are some of the thoughts that have been rolling around along with the marbles in my head.

Do with them what you will, they are just thoughts.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those that matter, don't mind -- and those that mind, don't matter." - Dr. Seuss


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 8, 2012 at 12:15:22 am

[Ronald Lindeboom] "Unfortunately, for many users, running Windows is not something they want to do. But even the most dedicated Apple user needing real workstation power would have trouble saying no to a Z-Series HP Workstation running Mac OS."

Absolutely. It's not about the MacPro form factor for us, it's about OSX.

Unfortunately, building a Hacintosh isn't suitable either. How's the Hacintosh support line and do they offer manufacturer warranties?

Jeremy


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Michael Gissing
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 8, 2012 at 12:20:48 am

I thought it brave of Ron to talk of a Hackintosh. Perhaps he was alluding to rumours that Mac might support HP with OSX officially but I seriously doubt it.

For me it is about software. I only went Mac for Final Cut. With my switch to da Vinci imminent and waiting to see what is on offer from CS6 and AVID in the coming months, I am steering away from Mac hardware to get much better performance for less money. WIN 7 is not a bad OS. If Adobe and AVID were all ported to Linux, then you won't see me on a Mac.


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 8, 2012 at 12:28:59 am

[Michael Gissing] "Perhaps he was alluding to rumours that Mac might support HP with OSX officially but I seriously doubt it."

I would LOVE to see the Mac OS licensed to HP. I love the HP's power and expandability but it would be even nicer if it was running dual OSes just as Macs can.

What I meant by saying Hacintosh is that people are already learning to create PCs running the Mac OS. That is the whole "Hacintosh" movement that seems to gather steam more over time.

I have little doubt that HP and Apple could be great corporate partners and could find a way to please the highest-end Mac users -- after all, we have been trained by years of Apple buying to not look for the cheapest way out. ;o)

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those that matter, don't mind -- and those that mind, don't matter." - Dr. Seuss


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David Jahns
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 8, 2012 at 12:49:39 am

I recall back in the day, when Apple used to make their own printers, too.

Eventually, they decided to just play nice with other hardware, and focus on their core business - the Apple experience - at the time, that meant the CPU Towers, Laptops, and software.

Nowadays, the "Apple experience" is mainly iOS, but tightly integrated with OS X, laptops, etc...

It's not much of a stretch to think of CPU Towers as just another 3rd party device for OS X to play nicely with while letting them focus on their main strengths.

David Jahns
---
Joint Editorial
Portland, OR


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Chris Harlan
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 8, 2012 at 12:53:48 am

[Ronald Lindeboom] "I have little doubt that HP and Apple could be great corporate partners and could find a way to please the highest-end Mac users"

Especially since they made such a big deal today about being a "post computer" company.


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moody glasgow
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched / HPZ820
on Mar 7, 2012 at 3:45:27 am

That would be a nice upgrade for my Flame.... 8 cores and 16 GB ram seem so small now...

moody glasgow
smoke/flame
http://www.thereelthinginc.com


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Helmut Kobler
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 7, 2012 at 12:28:54 am

Here's a run-down of each of the new chips:

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22583

I wonder which will end up in the Mac Pro. If Apple wants to retain a chip that uses only around 95W of power (as the 2010 Mac Pro does), then it's probably going to be the 2660 (8 cores per chip), which runs at 2.2GHz with a turbo boost up to 3.0GHz. That low clock speed is a bit disappointing to me, but who knows what benchmarks will reveal.

My 2009 Mac Pro uses chips that run at about 130W. If Apple went back up to that level, then maybe the 2670 or 2680 would work, and take us to 2.6Ghz or 2.7Ghz (before turbo). Those chips are getting expensive, though, given the cost of previous Mac Pro CPUs.


We'll see!

-------------------
Documentary Camera in Los Angeles
http://www.lacameraman.com


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Andrew Richards
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 7, 2012 at 1:44:32 am

AnandTech has Cinebench numbers on the 2660.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5553/the-xeon-e52600-dual-sandybridge-for-ser...

Best,
Andy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 7, 2012 at 2:31:24 am

Even the lower clock speeds are faster than the previous version (?) higher clock speeds.


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David Jahns
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 7, 2012 at 8:45:54 pm

I forget where I read it, but the idea of licensing the OS for high-end workstations was supposedly been kicking around a while at Apple, and strongly favored by Tim Cook, but Steve didn't like the idea.

The advantages? Keep the high-end pros happy and using Mac OS, while shifting the production responsibility to HP.

Even if they do announce a new version in 2012, I'd bet a month's salary that it will be the last version ever, and we'll go through this same ordeal in 2014.

Will iMacs & Thunderbolt be a sufficient replacement? For most editing, that would probably be acceptable. But as a Smoke on Mac user - I think I'll be screwed. :-(

David Jahns
---
Joint Editorial
Portland, OR


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Steve Connor
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 7, 2012 at 8:56:44 pm

I still think it's all change at Apple and the larger changes will take a while to permeate through, Tim Cook is very different than Steve Jobs and by all accounts he values the enterprise space. HP OSX workstations would have been unthinkable a year ago, now it might be different.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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moody glasgow
Re: E5 Xeon's officially launched
on Mar 7, 2012 at 8:58:24 pm

I agree David. Running Smoke on an Imac would seriously handcuff the app.
My z800 is already feeling slow ( I know it isnt...), probably because I am used to how fast it renders. I'm going to start my begging now, so I can get a z820 for my system as soon as they are available. (and Autodesk approves them!)

moody glasgow
smoke/flame
http://www.thereelthinginc.com


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