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I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.

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Daniel Rutledge
I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Feb 29, 2012 at 11:37:07 pm

I just finished my first small job with X. It was a small agency piece incorporating some existing assets into a new promo. I have done some tutorials, so I was familiar with the work flow (theoretically) already. I remember the first time I opened X in June of 2011, I felt just like everyone else. But I have been slowly training and awaiting updates, and this version is ready for pro use. I jumped right into the project, incorporating mixed assets with no transcoding and little need to wait for renders as I worked. The magnetic timeline (something I was still pretty sceptical about until this first real world project proved its worth) made it possible to re-order and experiment much more quickly than in legacy. I never felt my hands were tied; quite the contrary, I felt a lot more freed up by the metadata organizing system and the trackless workflow. The only time I found myself missing a feature from legacy was when I wanted to paste attributes. You can paste effects, but then it over writes existing grades and effects on the target clip. One thing I discovered was that when I opened a compound clip and erased one of the clips inside and replaced it with a new clip, the basic motion that I had applied to the original clip was transferred to the new one. I'm not entirely sure how that happened but I was glad it did.

There definitely some issues that will come up as we begin implementing this new tool, but I am fully sold on its standing as a serious piece of software for professionals, it's ability to change the way we work for the better, and it's long-term success as a new platform for creativity. That last one is why I like it so much. The time I normally spend transcoding and rendering went towards creativity instead. We will be switching over our entire editing suite as soon as we can afford to replace one of our older machines.


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Bill Davis
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:51:04 pm

Daniel,

Welcome to the hall of heretics.

I'm sure the torch bearers will show up soon to set fire to your roof, so in the quiet spell in between let me say a quiet hello.

Hang around some and "we who see the value" will eventually get around to showing you the secret handshakes.

We're a small, but hearty folk. (And we're getting richer and more productive all the time!)

Welcome.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Chris Harlan
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:12:17 pm

Oh dear, Bill.

This nice fellow's post has been sitting here for a day without a single negative boo, and here you are promising that torch bearers will soon be upon him to se fire to his roof. What's that say?

Anyway, Daniel, I'm glad it is working out for you. I, and I'm sure others, would be happy to hear of your further experiences with X. Please post 'em when you've got 'em.


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Morten Ranmar
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:20:23 pm

I too am finally starting to get a positive aquaintance with X - (after forcing myself to solely use this editor on my new MacBookPro) - but I cannot see it implemented at our facility, where we have 2 editing suites with shared storage.

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS5.5, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 1, 2012 at 11:52:05 pm

@ Chris and Dave. Hello. I have actually been stalking these forums for a while now, but I never had anything to add because I hadn't actually taken the risk of using this with clients. Now that I have one foot in, I will contribute my two cents.

Most of the criticisms I see of FCP X on these forums seems to be based on half truths and entirely false rumors. Most of the rest seem to come from people who think that things will never change. They are the brothers of the people who said that digital cameras would never be as good as film, that NLEs were okay for TV work, but not features, that sound was just a fad. And all those opinions I just listed were all supported by legitimate concerns at the time they were made. The point is, that nobody is doing R & D work on those old systems, and I suspect that neither are Adobe and Digidesign. Some jokers on a forum may not have the foresight to realize that the technology that they have grown comfortable with is changing doesnt mean that the designers of Premier and Avid werent staring at the new FCP X with a sense of admiration. I'd be willing to bet that they could see its value. Just because we've all been trapped in the unchanging box of our NLEs for the last 15 years, it doesn't mean that the much larger foundation beneath us hasn't been evolving into a completely unrecognizable new thing. As I look down at the smartphone into which I am typing this post, I am reminded that I don't need to use my imagination to envision what the future holds. Something that struck me as funny was that Avid released their iPad app at about the same time as the last major FCP X upgrade. Maybe the timing was a coincidence, but the meaning was clear. Just as the FCP X UI is designed for a touch interface, so will be all future NLEs. Avid didn't sink money into developing that up just so they could compete with iMovie on iMovie's home field (or vimeo's free app). It's a preview, a warning to the Avid faithful, and an attempt to cash in early on the research that has been going into Avid X or whatever they are going to call it. Maybe they'll implement more slowly or differently than apple did, but the outcome will be the same.

My stops coming up, so that's my opinion anyway.


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Michael Gissing
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 2, 2012 at 1:10:04 am

[Craig Rutledge] "Most of the criticisms I see of FCP X on these forums seems to be based on half truths and entirely false rumors. Most of the rest seem to come from people who think that things will never change."


Trouble with such generalisations is that you ignored a large number of people who posted negative comments about FCPX based on real world experience. If you think that basic functionality wasn't missing for a large sector of the industry and that some but not all of those basic functions have been included in updates, (mostly welcomed by those same critics), then you have not read some of the constructive criticism that will hopefully guide others and Apple to improving their product.

Like many I have been at the bleeding edge for most of my career so I expect and welcome change. Half truths and false rumours are inevitable and partly caused by Apple's secrecy. But there are many here who try to be objective and rational as we base our entire business strategy on trying to glean accurate information. Feedback like your is entirely welcome as we need real world experiences. At the same time we hear from other posters that this latest update is bloating and running slower. So keep the positive and negative feedback coming please.


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Michael Hancock
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 2, 2012 at 2:23:46 am

[Daniel Rutledge] "Avid didn't sink money into developing that up just so they could compete with iMovie on iMovie's home field (or vimeo's free app). It's a preview, a warning to the Avid faithful, and an attempt to cash in early on the research that has been going into Avid X or whatever they are going to call it. "

Nope. The Avid iPad app is in no way related to Media Composer, Symphony, or DS. It's a consumer app from the consumer division, and a lot of the reviews I read rate it higher than iMovie in function and power.

Avid isn't going to port Media Composer or their other professional grade NLEs to an all touch interface anytime soon (I wager - never). Touch interfaces could be useful for very specific tasks, but I'd wager again that they will never replace a keyboard/mouse/wacom combination.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 2, 2012 at 5:20:30 am

Of course there are things missing. There are things that need to be added. There are bugs and glitches. I have had to send crash reports to Apple in the past and I sent one today. I am sure that some attention is being paid to the desires of the professional community. But ultimately the pro community just asks for more of the same, but faster and higher quality. There are smart people who's job it is to develop UIs, hardware, and methods of working with technology. Saying that these companies should just give us what we ask for is like saying filmmakers should just make movies that the mass audience asks for.

I also don't think that Avid will be unveiling a new touch screen application next year. But I think it is even less likely that in ten or fifteen years, people will be sitting in front of computers that look like the one you're staring at right now and pushing a mouse around. That is what FCP X is about and I may not know what those future interfaces will be like, but I am positive that they will be different. If you think about it, a mouse is not the most natural tool to work with. Neither is a Wacom tablet. There are other ways of doing things. I'm not saying that we'll all be editing on iPads in 2013, I am simply saying that those devices and the way consumers interact with them is an indicator of a possible direction. And honestly, I have always felt that Avid is way too tied to working on the principle of the UI being a graphical representation of working with film. I understand how that became the original analogy that the interface represented, but I started out working with Data (that's a lie, started on Tape to Tape but not for very long) and I prefer to have data represented in a way that takes advantage of the environments flexibility. I'm not bashing Avid. I think it is great in a lot of ways. I started in FCP learned Avid after, and consequently customized my FCP keyboard shortcuts to resemble Avid more. I actually think that it some ways FCP X has a lot in common with Avid.

I can't believe that avid is going to make that much money off of their consumer product, regardless of how good it is. It just seems likely that the consumer software is like a farm team for the main applications. It seems like that is what happened with iMovie and FCP X. Everyone kept calling it iMovie Pro so I decided to open iMovie for the first time in ten years. I laughed because I couldn't believe how familiar it looked. I don't think that's a bad thing. I personally am happy to find an easier way to work. If they can use a consumer app to find ways to perform complicated functions in a way that even a regular consumer can't screw up, I'm all for that. A lot of what apple has done in FCP X (and more in Motion) is take complicated tasks, add an auto feature, but then provide a next level where you go in and tweak keyframes and parameters just as accurately as ever.

I don't think I was generalizing in my dismissal of "most" critics. There are genuine hurdles to overcome. Despite their secretive nature, Apple has actually made promises for once (which they have kept), and through their actions, they have laid out a pattern of what to expect in the future; frequent updates. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple has abandoned the higher end broadcast market for the time being. I still hold that "most" critics are either cranks or curmudgeons. I have legitimate criticism and desires for X as do many others. I'm just dismissing people who had their feelings hurt by Apple and now are exercising this weird vendetta on FCP X forums. If people are switching to Avid then they should head over to the Avid forums. A couple of years ago I was talking to the Post Supervisor at HBO in NY and he was telling me that they were phasing out all their FCP work stations. Then, just after this release Bunim/Murray jumped ship. The market has increased in size, so different companies are pursuing different corners. A good friend of mine is switching to Premier. We used to work at a production company together and we were both total FCP nerds, but he has a real After Effect centric workflow now, so it makes sense for him.

"they will never replace a keyboard/mouse/wacom combination."

That sounds a lot like they will never replace the Moviola. Seriously, forget the next ten years; assuming that we haven't blown up the earth by then, what about 100 years. That's all your imagination will allow? 100 years from now there will be some guy sitting in front of an LCD screen clicking a mouse and arguing on Creative Cow that there will be an eternity of mouse clicking awaiting editors add infinitum. That is a scene straight out of Foucault.

I decided to make up my own mind. I'm not a fan boy. I was ready to jump ship if things turned out as badly as the picture being painted early on. I have used the program. It worked perfectly for what I needed. That's good enough for me. I still have FCP 7, Premiere, and Avid MC on my computer just incase a freelance job comes along that calls for one of them, but my personal choice in the future is FCP X.


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Chris Harlan
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 2, 2012 at 6:53:56 am

[Michael Hancock] "Avid isn't going to port Media Composer or their other professional grade NLEs to an all touch interface anytime soon (I wager - never). Touch interfaces could be useful for very specific tasks, but I'd wager again that they will never replace a keyboard/mouse/wacom combination.
"


Yeah, I find that a no go, myself. I Do like rotating between mouse, track pad, and tablet to keep my fingers fresh, and just because my mood changes from day to day, but, after spending a couple of years with a tablet, I find it far more more constraining than I had initially imagined. My iPad is a great media device, and occasionally doubles as an interesting controller, but I have no real desire to edit with it. That my fingers get in the way is part of it, but precision is the big thing. Using an external device that acts as an analog to the mouse cursor on the screen allows me to get into much smaller areas then when I'm actually touching the glass with my fingers.


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Chris Harlan
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 2, 2012 at 7:09:21 am

Well, Daniel those are certainly some well-defined beliefs. I don't share many of them, but I do agree that there's a strong possibility that FCP X might have been designed with a touchscreen in mind. And, once upon a time, I probably believed that a touchscreen was an inevitable evolutionary development for NLEs. Spending a few years with one has convinced me that it isn't--at least not for me.

As to the Avid App, I don't think that's meant to be anything more than a consumer plaything. I've enjoyed messing around with it a bit, but I sincerely doubt it will ever be anything more than a fun little App.

As to being trapped in my box--I don't feel it. Good for you that you like X so much; do me a favor, though, and try not to judge those of us who have our qualms about it quite so harshly. We may be jokers without much foresight, but its not for lack of trying. Right now X just doesn't work for some of us.


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 2, 2012 at 4:32:14 pm

I feel like on these forums people often just see parts of a post and zero in on statements in isolation, ignoring context. I never said that anyone was ready to switch over to an all touch workspace. Can you imagine how your back would feel after a ten hour editing session in which you had both arms out in front of you at a 90ยบ angle manipulating icons. It just wouldn't be practical. I personally only like using Wacom in PS and for certain things in AE. My tablet also works as a touch track pad. I never liked navigating menus with the pen, I pretty much use it exclusively for drawing. But I see that as a short coming on my part. Anyway, imagine if your Wacom tablet was like an iPad. You could use it like you use your current Wacom, you could use it to draw directly on compositions, you could take it to other rooms and still work on certain aspects of your project, you can use it as a control surface (something that iPads can already do), etc. The Wacom Cintiq already does a lot of these things. If I could afford to buy one just to see if I like it, I would. A motion graphics artist/animator that I know uses one exclusively. It seems like a lot of fun and also like an efficient way to work. I personally can't imagine giving up the keyboard completely. One of the things I like about the new Final Cut is that the keyboard shortcuts are so much more powerful and streamlined. I think that is an area where Avid has always had FCP beat (until now). As a professional you need to be able enter precise time code and enter other information accurately in ways that I think would be cumbersome in even the most advanced touch system. Some day there will probably be a world without dedicated keyboards I am sure, just because I can't imagine it doesn't mean it won't happen. Watch these videos (which you have probably seen before) but don't imagine using the devices just as they are represented, try to picture incorporating them into your workflow as pieces of a bigger puzzle.









There are legions of kids heading off to film school next Fall. Many of them have only ever used iMovie, or at least started with it before using FCP in high school. They are going to open FCP X and think 1. This looks familiar 2. It can accomplish everything that the other programs can 3. it costs less and 4. I pretty much already know how to use it.

FCP X isn't just looking at next year. It is designed as a foundation for the next ten years, just like FCP 1 was.

Also you say that Avid won't do this or that to MC. Avid learned their lesson the first time around with FCP. Do you think that twelve years ago the people at Avid were sitting around talking about ways to make their product a piece of standalone software that cost 1/20 of what their least expensive integrated hardware and software system did at the time? No, that happened because they saw Apple first create a whole new market and then start encroaching on the higher end film and television market that once seemed like it was the personal property of Avid. Some of the older guys I have met have told me horror stories about dealing Avid when there was no competition. This one guy told me that the facilities manager at a place where he worked came back from a meeting with Avid reps crying, haha. They threatened to revoke the company's Avid license because they had bought some piece of unapproved third-party software.

My point is, things used to be one way and they changed, then they changed again and again.

I'm not trying to talk anyone into liking FCP X, I'm just saying that you shouldn't be close minded about it and try to talk other people into not liking it. I for one think it is a great improvement on workflow and I would love to see it succeed. I don't believe that anyone who tries it in earnest, will say that it's not professional, or that it is badly designed. I understand that at the moment it isn't suited for a networked environment where media and projects are shared, but I am sure that will change (and quickly judging from the rate at which updates are released). Really, I don't see any other workflow for which it is not suited.

I have to admit that I don't understand Avid's strategy with their entrance into the consumer software market. I was surprised when they bought Pinnacle back in 2005. I was even more surprised that they didn't kill it. Maybe your right about the iPad app and Avid Studio (which looks like a cross between iMovie, Avid MC, and Final Cut Express). Maybe they have found a way to make money in the consumer market and that's all there is to it. I still think that I'm right on this, but there's no way of knowing. I guess I wouldn't be surprised to find out I'm wrong

I wasn't being facetious when I asked if you thought that editors would be working just as we have been for the last 20 years, 100 years from now. I really want to know what you think. You said "never" in reference to changing interface design. I was assuming that your "never" was figurative, and I was asking what you really thought.


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Chris Harlan
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 2, 2012 at 6:05:10 pm

[Daniel Rutledge] "I feel like on these forums people often just see parts of a post and zero in on statements in isolation, ignoring context."

Dude, I'm sorry you feel that way. You might want to rethink that, though. My guess is that it is generally the result of people responding to the items they have something to respond to. In other cases it might have to do with vague or mixed statements on the part of the original poster.

[Daniel Rutledge] "The Wacom Cintiq already does a lot of these things."

Yeah, I've been using a Cintiq for about four years now. Its okay. Not quite as handy as I thought it would be, but I get use out of it.

[Daniel Rutledge] "My point is, things used to be one way and they changed, then they changed again and again. "

Yeah, most of us who have been doing this for a living for a long time are well aware of that. Most of us work on multiple NLE's and, for many of us FCP was our 3rd or 4th NLE. We're pretty used to change. Some of us even thrive on it. Doesn't mean that we have to accept it blindly, however.


[Daniel Rutledge] "I'm not trying to talk anyone into liking FCP X, I'm just saying that you shouldn't be close minded about it and try to talk other people into not liking it."

Who exactly am I trying to talk into not liking it? I think that one's in your head. I can imagine a lot of things it would be useful for. I'm always interested in hearing stories about how it works for people. But I do like specifics and not vagaries. When I talk about reasons that it doesn't work for me, I try to be very specific. I like that same specificity in reports of well it works for folks. In general, the people who debate things on this forum are neither pro nor con, but are, instead, engaged in a lengthy discussion of editorial process.


[Daniel Rutledge] "FCP X isn't just looking at next year. It is designed as a foundation for the next ten years, just like FCP 1 was. "

I'm really not interested in ten years from now, and won't be for another six. My window is from next week to maybe three years out. For me, the rest is pretty much armchair piffle. Also, personally, I believe you attribute too much power to the Professional Apps division within Apple. It drove the company--or at least had shotgun--for a number of years, but is now in the trunk.


[Daniel Rutledge] "I wasn't being facetious when I asked if you thought that editors would be working just as we have been for the last 20 years, 100 years from now. I really want to know what you think."

Sorry, mate. That--to me--is an absurd question, other than to say "of course not."

[Daniel Rutledge] "You said "never" in reference to changing interface design. I was assuming that your "never" was figurative, and I was asking what you really thought."

I have no idea what you are talking about. I've scanned my above posts and can not find any usage of "never." Nor can I find any reference to changing interface design. The only thing that remotely fits in that area at all is my mentioning that I didn't believe that the consumer App that Avid just released will be developed much beyond what it is now. To go from that to "You said "never" in reference to changing interface design" is a bit of a stretch, so perhaps you meant something else.


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 2, 2012 at 11:36:43 pm

Sorry, Michael Hancock wrote "never" and you quoted him in one of you posts. To be fair you were agreeing with him, but you didn't actually write it yourself.

If you don't like Fcp x and you only care about the next three weeks, then there's really nothing to discuss. I must have written a half dozen times that I agree that there are some workflows that FCP X isn't suited to. Yours is one of them. In that we are in agreement. I am sure that Avid and Adobe will continue to make products that are familiar to us all for at least the next several years.

I'm glad that you like your current setup.


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Chris Harlan
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 1:18:26 am

[Daniel Rutledge] "If you don't like Fcp x and you only care about the next three weeks, then there's really nothing to discuss. "

I believe you are misquoting me. The timeframe I mentioned was substantially larger. The point is that ten years out is numerous investment cycles away, and that trying to determine what might be usable then doesn't in any way help me make a living now. Trying to look forward two and three years in regards to equipment and platforms is useful.

I don't dislike FCP X; in fact, there are elements that I find quite intriguing. It is entirely possible that in the next three years I will find some uses for it. It seems to me that there is plenty to discuss.

[Daniel Rutledge] "I'm glad that you like your current setup.
"


I would be happier with an FCP 8, but I'm adjusting nicely.


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 4:18:40 am

My point isn't that FCP X will be useful in ten years. In ten years there will be some guy on creative cow lamenting the demise of the seemingly iriplaceable magnetic timeline. In ten years X will be ready for retirement.

FCP 8 isn't coming. X isn't what I was expecting either, but I have enough respect for the substantial investment it took to develop it to give it a chance to succeed on its own merits.


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Chris Harlan
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 4:56:55 am

[Daniel Rutledge] "My point isn't that FCP X will be useful in ten years. In ten years there will be some guy on creative cow lamenting the demise of the seemingly iriplaceable magnetic timeline. In ten years X will be ready for retirement."

I guess that's a possibility.

[Daniel Rutledge] "FCP 8 isn't coming. X isn't what I was expecting either, but I have enough respect for the substantial investment it took to develop it to give it a chance to succeed on its own merits."

It's succeeding already. A number of people are happy with it. For me, and the community I work in, it would be a poor choice. Whether Apple has any interest getting that community back is a matter of much debate. My guess is that it doesn't particularly care. Of course, I'd love to be shown that I'm wrong.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 12:33:33 am

[Daniel Rutledge] "FCP X isn't just looking at next year. It is designed as a foundation for the next ten years, just like FCP 1 was. "

And you know this on exactly what authority?


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Bill Davis
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 12:37:43 pm

Uh, David-

It was Apple Senior Director of Marketing Richard Townhill:
"We are giving people the opportunity to see for themselves how powerful, amazing and revolutionary Final Cut Pro is," Townhill said, adding that the updated suite offers a modern foundation that will last "for the next 10 years."

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Bill Davis
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 12:48:55 pm

Uh, David-

It was Apple Senior Director of Marketing Richard Townhill:
"We are giving people the opportunity to see for themselves how powerful, amazing and revolutionary Final Cut Pro is," Townhill said, adding that the updated suite offers a modern foundation that will last "for the next 10 years."

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 2:09:00 pm

Chris, I don't want to go back and forth about this indefinitely. I feel like we have been in 98% agreement the whole time and that this has gotten to be be more about semantics. If you look at my OP it was specific about certain things that I liked about working in X for the first time on a real world job. My post was simply a review of the program that contracted my experience against my previous concerns as well as unfair criticisms leveled by the editing community at large. It seems like you took it to mean that any criticism was wrong and that even though you had legitimate criticisms, I was dismissing them as invalid. Although I may not share all of your points of view, I never called any of your concerns illegitimate. The only thing that we seem to disagree about is what the future of editing tools will be. Since it is all opinion, then it is impossible to resolve.

I guess we'll just have to wait until the future happens to see what occurs.


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 3:10:39 pm

*contrasted*

I was writing from my phone.


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Chris Harlan
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 4:18:27 pm

[Daniel Rutledge] "Chris, I don't want to go back and forth about this indefinitely. "

Dude, you keep thinking I'm arguing with you, and I'm not. I've read and re-read my last response to try and understand your last post, but I can't. For the most part, I agreed with you, and where I didn't I noted that it was for me, or for myself and the people I work with. In general, through this thread, you've misunderstood a number of things I've said, as well as misquoting me and attributing to me a number of sentiments that I just don't have. Granted, some of that could be the fault of the communicator, but it is my opinion that you read way too much into things.

[Daniel Rutledge] "It seems like you took it to mean that any criticism was wrong and that even though you had legitimate criticisms, I was dismissing them as invalid. Although I may not share all of your points of view, I never called any of your concerns illegitimate."

I don't know how you got to that, but I've gone back through the entire thread, and I'm pretty sure that's in your head, not in mine. Frankly, it feels like you are having a discussion with someone else, and I seem to be along for the ride.


[Daniel Rutledge] "The only thing that we seem to disagree about is what the future of editing tools will be. Since it is all opinion, then it is impossible to resolve.
"


No. I haven't even discussed that with you. The only thing I've discussed at all related to this is the practicality of a working editor making extra-long term decisions about his tools in a world that changes far to quickly for that.


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Chris Harlan
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 4:59:05 pm

[Chris Harlan] "[Daniel Rutledge] "The only thing that we seem to disagree about is what the future of editing tools will be. Since it is all opinion, then it is impossible to resolve.
"

No. I haven't even discussed that with you. The only thing I've discussed at all related to this is the practicality of a working editor making extra-long term decisions about his tools in a world that changes far to quickly for that.
"


To be fair, we also discussed touch screen interfaces, where my comments were pretty much limited to the fact that I don't like them as much as I once thought I would.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 5:22:39 pm

[Bill Davis] "Uh, David-

It was Apple Senior Director of Marketing Richard Townhill:
"We are giving people the opportunity to see for themselves how powerful, amazing and revolutionary Final Cut Pro is," Townhill said, adding that the updated suite offers a modern foundation that will last "for the next 10 years.""


Oh, I get it now, because Mr. Townhill said it, that makes it so.

Well, I guess we should really take him at his word then - since he said we're giving "people" the opportunity to see for themselves, and he never said anything about "editors," that might explain why it's not a modern foundation for most editors.


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 5:44:27 pm

Okay Chris, if I misunderstood you then I'm sorry I did. I'm glad that it seems like we both are on the same page about fundamentally agreeing.


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 5:51:48 pm

David that quote the Bill posted is exactly what I was referring to. you may not like the new software and you may think that Apple has deserted the professional community, but why would he lie about the ten years.
Most software that I use doesn't get rewritten from the ground up all that often. In fact the more complex the software, the less often you see major changes.

I have the feeling that FCP is going to look this way for quite some time to come.


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Daniel Rutledge
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 7:03:08 pm

Just to clarify what my conjecture and opinions are based upon, I am linking below to some articles (which I am not necessarily endorsing the full content of) which contain some interesting information. Mostly I am referring to the quotes from Apple designers and execs (or former designers and/or execs)

http://www.dvcreators.net/what-does-the-guy-who-led-the-original-final-cut-...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399599,00.asp

Some of the ideas I have expressed are based partially on concepts about the implementation of FCP X from this talk given by Evan Schectmann from Radical Media:

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/news/512-evan-schectmann-talks-sense-about-...

BTW - That talk was given before 10.0.3 was released.

Also see the videos dealing with future concepts in interface posted in a previous post above.

Just trying to establish that I am not some drunk guy sitting around making up fantasies. I have actually spent a lot of time thinking about this. I don't think that it makes my opinion any more valid than yours, but there is some method behind my thinking.


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Bill Davis
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 5, 2012 at 3:04:46 am

[David Roth Weiss] "Oh, I get it now, because Mr. Townhill said it, that makes it so.

Well, I guess we should really take him at his word then - since he said we're giving "people" the opportunity to see for themselves, and he never said anything about "editors," that might explain why it's not a modern foundation for most editors."


Really? Your argument is that Mr. Townhill doesn't understand that "editors" are also "people?" Or are you arguing that a person who holds the position of the senior marketing manager at Apple wouldn't understand his own companies product development thinking?

That's just nuts.

David, sorry, but what you keep writing reflects the fact that you can't see anything about the program reasonably or fairly, and are even willing to try to "spin" facts when presented with them.

Daniel said that he read that X was going to be Apples bet for the next decade of pro editing development. Mr. Townhill's quote directly and incontrovertible proves that's a fact. You questioned Daniel, and it turns out YOU were wrong.

That kinda stuff happens all the time. What doesn't happen all the time is people confronting the FACT of their wrongness, yet continuing to try to argue the point anyway. What's up with you? Did the FCP-X team run over your pet kitten or something? You're not arguing against FCP-X - you're now practicing what I think can best be labeled as a personal vendetta against it.

In my personal estimation, this thread deep sixes whatever credibility you might have to write about FCP-X and be taken seriously.

I know you're a working professional editor, and I'm not questioning your skills or your experience.

But I am questioning you on the issue of personal bias and judgement when it comes specifically to Final Cut Pro X.

I believe that this has revealed that your opinions about FCP-X are based on pre-conceptions, emotion and stubbornness, and that those run so strong in you about this individual topic that you can't even acknowledge a truth when it's presented to you in a very fundamental, factual form.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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David Roth Weiss
Re: I can't believe how fast can work in FCP X already.
on Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03:45 am

[Bill Davis] "But I am questioning you on the issue of personal bias and judgement when it comes specifically to Final Cut Pro X."

Sure, I'll cop to personal bias - biased against FCPX as a replacement that doesn't work for me or virtually the entire ecosystem of professional editors I interface with, vs. a mature enterprise app that did work for me and for the ecosystem of professional editors I interface with. I doubt there are many human beings on the planet other than yourself who would suggest that's anything but fair and righteous.

The fact that FCPX does work for you, and that you constantly write material that reflects your personal biases, means that whatever you may say or write about me actually pertains to you as well, just that we simply disagree on the side of the discussion we happen to take on the matter at hand.

Call me when FCPX or some other Apple app fills the niche formerly occupied by FCP, but until then don't bother me with all your carp (a stinky fish) about this pretender to the throne.

Now, away with you please, I have some reality to deal with.


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