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Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro

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Bobby Mosca
Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 25, 2012 at 8:54:42 pm

For those who use both, which do you think is better and why?

Thanks in advance!


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Steve Connor
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 25, 2012 at 9:03:18 pm

Haven't used CC much in Pro, although I imagine the CC in that is going to get a whole lot better with the addition of Speedgrade.

However I'm finding the CC in FCPX to be fantastic, once I worked out the new controls. Having basic secondaries is very useful and even heavy CC doesn't seem to tax the realtime performance. However the lack of key framing can be a real pain!

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Liam Hall
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 25, 2012 at 9:11:07 pm

Colour correction FCPX is basic, but quick. Colour correction in PP is basically good, but slow.

Liam Hall
Director/DoP/Editor
http://www.liamhall.net


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 1:51:54 am

picture of the color correction effects that come with Premiere Pro.

Two to point out:
- 3-way CC is thorough and includes secondaries. Not the fastest thing, but it is really good.
- Fast CC is really quick and easy. one click white balance with levels, saturation, etc.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 3:25:21 am

FCP X color correction is good and clean, although the color board is non-standard compared with color wheels. It gets a lot more powerful if you add Nattress Curves, Yanobox Moods and Simon's two grading and color wheel plug-ins. The last two are free.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bobby Mosca
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 3:46:02 am

I've been reading around and it seems Adobe has acquired and will be adding SpeedGrade to CS6, at which point the answer to my question will be obvious.

FCPX is getting left in the dust, it seems.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 9:03:35 am

Adobe needed to buy Speedgrade and let's hope for a cool implementation a la FCP/Color (sob sob). That list Dennis posted looks impressive and I've used everything there and I'll take FCPX Color Board any day. I love that there is no need to actually ad any color plug-in in X - just click on a clip and it's ready to go.

I've been playing with Tonalizer in FCPX quite a bit and it's my favorite all-time 3rd party plug-in. Really practical and fast with great sharpening and noise reduction built in. No Adobe version yet.

Most Editors I know use 3rd party plugs for color timing within the NLE although Media Composer and FCP legacy both have pretty good built in color tools. The nice thing about using something like Magic Bullet Colorista or Looks is that they have versions for just about every NLE on both Mac and Windows so it's back to what NLE you like to cut in...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 2:08:01 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "I've been playing with Tonalizer in FCPX quite a bit and it's my favorite all-time 3rd party plug-in."

I'd be very interested to hear why you think Tonalizer is so special. Could you describe what it does that you haven't been able to do with anything else?

Thanks.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 27, 2012 at 10:34:26 am

Download the demo and check it out. Just so many many features in a single plug-in. Besides basic color timing and temperature - you've got Highlight recovery, Noise Reduction and Sharpening that all produce excellent results, especially for DSLR footage. Top it off with optional legalizer so all your corrections are broadcast safe...

Tonalizer also runs in FCP7.

http://irudis.com/Products/TonalizerVFX.aspx

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Steve Connor
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 9:14:36 am

[Bobby Mosca] "I've been reading around and it seems Adobe has acquired and will be adding SpeedGrade to CS6, at which point the answer to my question will be obvious.

FCPX is getting left in the dust, it seems.
"


Not really, FCPX roundtrips to DaVinci Resolve very easily if you need the extra power

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Marcus Samuel-Gaskin
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 12:14:40 pm

[Bobby Mosca] "I've been reading around and it seems Adobe has acquired and will be adding SpeedGrade to CS6, at which point the answer to my question will be obvious.

FCPX is getting left in the dust, it seems."


Not really. Speedgrade has just about the most non-standard interface the industry has ever seen. Ive used it before Adobe acquired it. It's going to take a lot of re-architecting if Joe Editor is going to use it as an everyday tool. There's a reason it didn't catch on...


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Oliver Peters
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 2:12:52 pm

Let's be realistic. Speedgrade, Resolve and Color are all colorist tools that are way beyond what the average editor wants to deal with. From what I've seen, most FCP editors never even opened Color - or they did so once, were completely confused and never touched it again.

These are great tools, but have a steep learning curve. Any outboard colorist's tool isn't going to let you work in-context and interactively. For example, using a built-in NLE filter in conjunction with the color grading you are trying to achieve. Or making a quick picture trim while grading. Unless you really want to learn grading, then it makes more sense to compare one NLE's onboard toolset to another's. Besides, Resolve is free for SD and HD frame sizes, so its power can augment any of the options available, including Avid.

The trend these days is towards presets, so look at Sapphire Edge and MB Looks 2, as well, as you consider your options.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 2:22:05 pm

[Oliver Peters] "From what I've seen, most FCP editors never even opened Color - or they did so once, were completely confused and never touched it again."

Totally agree. Which is why Apple thought they were perfectly safe in killing it stone dead. The "outcry" has been almost non-existent, certainly in the editing community.

Although there were a few people who were using Color as a source of revenue who are pretty miffed. But they have long since moved on.

Much as I deplore their decision, it is clear that the move to build everything into the one app is one that Apple have actually got right in terms of the vast mass of editors out there.

It's interesting that there are so many people who either think the Color Board is the answer to all grading problems, or who are happy to drop the odd $100 for some third party "grading" plug-in that promises a "secret sauce" that is in fact anything but secret.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 4:27:08 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "It's interesting that there are so many people who either think the Color Board is the answer to all grading problems, or who are happy to drop the odd $100 for some third party "grading" plug-in that promises a "secret sauce" that is in fact anything but secret."

Laziness.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 4:34:13 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Much as I deplore their decision, it is clear that the move to build everything into the one app is one that Apple have actually got right in terms of the vast mass of editors out there. "

The all-in-one app was something I had hoped they were going for. I've done a fair amount of Symphony work and it's hard to beat the true integration of having everything right there. Unfortunately Apple has always been an 80/20 company and FCP X is a very schizophrenic piece of software. I doubt that you'll ever get any given feature that truly opens up complete access to fine-tuning an effect. The ongoing posts of inability to really control key frame attributes are an example of this. I think Apple intends to take these tools just so far and then leave the heaving lifting to something like Resolve or Smoke.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 11:55:53 pm

"Totally agree. Which is why Apple thought they were perfectly safe in killing it stone dead. The "outcry" has been almost non-existent, certainly in the editing community. "

The outcry has been small because da Vinci was on every color graders radar anyway. It just added a small push. No point in complaining about Apple deserting the marketplace with no new alternative as the successor to Color was already available and cheap.

Besides I am still using Color and none of my clients has yet asked if I can take a FCPX project as they are still using FCS3.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 27, 2012 at 10:30:14 am

Took the words out of my mouth. Once BMD bought DaVinci and announced the $999 price, I had no interest in Color, even though I used it a lot and liked it. Now you throw in the free version and the rest is history. Apple knew this and had no prob killing Color. Of course the same reasons didn't exist with Shake and FCP legacy.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Liam Hall
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 26, 2012 at 10:30:14 am

[Dennis Radeke] "picture of the color correction effects that come with Premiere Pro.

Two to point out:
- 3-way CC is thorough and includes secondaries. Not the fastest thing, but it is really good.
- Fast CC is really quick and easy. one click white balance with levels, saturation, etc.

"


Perhaps in CS6 you can combine these seventeen colour filters into one speedy interface...

Liam Hall
Director/DoP/Editor
http://www.liamhall.net


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Shawn Miller
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 27, 2012 at 5:48:04 am

"Perhaps in CS6 you can combine these seventeen colour filters into one speedy interface..."

@Adobe

Please don't... :-)

Shawn Miller



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andy lewis
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 27, 2012 at 2:49:12 pm

The Color interface wasn't difficult it just looked it, or too many people said it was difficult and spooked the nervous. In my experience, it was an absolute pleasure to use. It was a good example of how an interface can make complex, multistage operations seem simple and intuitive. As a measure of that, I reckon I could have taken over someone else's long-form Color project halfway through and been able to figure out in 10 minutes what they had done and where they were heading. I couldn't say the same about FCP7.

My favourite thing about FCP8 is that the full interface of Color (with a few tweaks) is now available as a mode - FCP tools slide out and the Color interface slides in but the timeline stays the same.

Aahhh I can dream, can't I?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 27, 2012 at 8:32:00 pm

[andy lewis] "My favourite thing about FCP8 is that the full interface of Color (with a few tweaks) is now available as a mode - FCP tools slide out and the Color interface slides in but the timeline stays the same. "

What is odd, is that this is how FCPX works. Yes, it's not as powerful as Color, and yes, there's no color wheels, but if you hit command-6, the color board comes up with Primary, Secondary, Inside/Outside masks, Shape masks, and a rudimentary HSL keyer. And then you can stack multiple corrections on there if need be.

They have the right idea, but like with anything in FCPX, we need more control, specifically for the keyer.

Jeremy


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Jim Giberti
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 27, 2012 at 10:10:15 pm

Honestly, I'm pleased with the realtime color board, multiple secondaries and masks. They're very fast and easy to work with. Combined with Magic Bullet , which I like because it opens and works within X, we've got plenty of grading power. Similarly, Cosmo that comes with MB looks could use more control, but the combination of X and MB works really well.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 28, 2012 at 3:45:54 am

I agree - would like to see a freehand masking tool added to secondaries.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Aaron Williams
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 28, 2012 at 3:13:46 pm

I just started using FCP7 again after learning and using PPro for a few years. I missed the control of curves. Then started learning Color. For what I do it's great. Curves are back!
I edit whiteboard scribing videos. Fairly simple stuff, but I like the ability to pinpoint the red marker and change it to a super vibrant red. The Hug and Luma curve are super helpful to get client logo colors a lot closer. Does X have these same controls? I played with it a little but it seemed limited and to where the hi mid & lows were.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 28, 2012 at 3:29:00 pm

[Aaron Williams] "but I like the ability to pinpoint the red marker and change it to a super vibrant red."

You can do that with the secondary color correction in X. Same as "limit" in FCP 7 or the secondary keyer in Color.

[Aaron Williams] "The Hug and Luma curve are super helpful to get client logo colors a lot closer"

There are no hue, sat or luma curves, but you can buy the Nattress Curves package via Noise Industries and get most of this functionality. Also many of the slider-based and wheels-based filters, like the ones Simon has produced, will also enhance the grading power.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 28, 2012 at 5:48:56 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Also many of the slider-based and wheels-based filters, like the ones Simon has produced, will also enhance the grading power."

Many thanks for mentioning my "grading" templates here - and also in your excellent piece on FCPX 10.0.3.

Unfortunately I need to mention that I have withdrawn from circulation the Color wheels template you refer to (which was only ever a "proof of concept"), as I wasn't really happy with the way it was going. I may revisit this as some point but for now the limitations (and weaknesses of Motion 5) mean that I don't think it's working well enough.

I have also withdrawn most of the other "grading" templates for similar reasons.

The main one is that there is a level of complexity in the design of these things that is quite quickly reached at which performance becomes undesirably sluggish. What works smoothly in Motion, can become unduly cumbersome in FCPX (as I believe you have pointed out elsewhere).

The other issue is that while the Motion 5/FCPX template model works fine for at a fairly simple level, there is again a complexity threshold at which things start to break - and the only way to fix it is to build everything again from scratch. This applies particularly to very complex parameter linking within Motion 5 which after a certain point can behave unpredictably in the sense of simply turning itself off.

Apologies to anyone who has tried to use any of these templates and had issues.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 28, 2012 at 6:25:27 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "The other issue is that while the Motion 5/FCPX template model works fine for at a fairly simple level, there is again a complexity threshold at which things start to break - and the only way to fix it is to build everything again from scratch"

Too bad. These work well for me. However, in general, I've noticed that most of the non-Apple filters and effects are not nearly as RT as the built-in ones. Therefore, you have to render and FCP X tends to render more slowly than other apps. The more complex the effect, the more taxing it becomes. For instance, the DV Shade Easy Looks filter that's part of FxFactory has many options and is nearly all slider-based. So, it's ideal for FCP X's layout. Yet, this versatility takes more processing, so back to a less-than-RT situation.

It's very unfortunate that FCP X has no true effects API. In other words, developers cannot actually create a filter than interacts with the application in exactly the same way as some of the built-in effects, AFAIK. Apple advice to developers discourages complex effects control exposed to the user in FCP X.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 28, 2012 at 7:46:25 pm

[Oliver Peters] "It's very unfortunate that FCP X has no true effects API. In other words, developers cannot actually create a filter than interacts with the application in exactly the same way as some of the built-in effects,"

Absolutely agree. This definitely needs to be addressed.


[Oliver Peters] "AFAIK. Apple advice to developers discourages complex effects control exposed to the user in FCP X."

I think this is just a recommendation about template design in general - as in, don't give the editor too much to play with!

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Color Correction: FCPX vs Premiere Pro
on Feb 28, 2012 at 7:42:43 pm

[Aaron Williams] "I like the ability to pinpoint the red marker and change it to a super vibrant red. The Hug and Luma curve are super helpful to get client logo colors a lot closer."

You might like to try out the new free effect (Motion Template) that I have created that specifically addresses this:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/344/8736

Isolate your chosen color and then adjust hue, saturation and luma, just as you would with the Color secondary curves. The two big advantages if this effect over using the Color Board keyer (which sort of does the job at a pinch), is a) that you can view the key directly (as a black&white/Grayscale image) which really helps in isolating exactly the range you are wanting to affect, and b) you can blur the key, which is a feature currently not available in the Color Board and it an important consideration for this kind of grading challenge.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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