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FCPX... My 2 cents

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Lance Bachelder
FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 10:59:05 am

Okay so been using FCPX for a couple of months now and evaluating whether it could be used on my next "paid" project. I have come to the conclusion that, while there is a great foundation here and lots of great features, there are still too many missing features or things that need to be changed before I could fully commit to working with it over other NLE's like FCP7 etc. We all know 7 is solid and can be used for pretty much any type of project and we've all used it long enough to know any shortcomings, workarounds etc. But we can go into a project and know that we can deliver that project whatever the end use may be. While I'm a fan and will continue to play around with FCPX, I personally don't have that FCP7 comfort level as it now sits.

A few features I'd like to see (some of which have been mentioned in other threads and some which may be possible but I haven't learned the feature yet sorry):

1. Customizable Workspaces - no brainer.

2. Waveforms! Need to see STEREO and MONO waveforms and would like to see entire waveform not just half if possible.

3. Favorites! Need to see the name I give a favorite in the various windows including the timeline! What's the use of creating a bunch of specific names if you can't see them easily. In thumbnail view you can't see Favorite names at all :(

4. Really would like to go back to tracks - forget this story thing and give us tracks!

5. Project Library. I know there is a 3rd party program to turn projects on and off but it would be cool if there was a simple dialog window upon launch like Avid or PPro to specify which projects I want open and viewable in the Library.

6. Like to see some right-click Send To's! Send to Editor (Photoshop), Send to Logic, Send to Motion etc. like we have in legacy.

I also think the program needs better overall snappiness and speed. FCPX is really quick at first but bogs down as projects get more complex, much worse than legacy! Seems like maybe 10.03 update made things slower?

There's many more things but most have been mentioned here before.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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alban egger
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 12:19:09 pm

[Lance Bachelder]

3. Favorites! Need to see the name I give a favorite in the various windows including the timeline! What's the use of creating a bunch of specific names if you can't see them easily. In thumbnail view you can't see Favorite names at all :(

4. Really would like to go back to tracks - forget this story thing and give us tracks!

5. Project Library. I know there is a 3rd party program to turn projects on and off but it would be cool if there was a simple dialog window upon launch like Avid or PPro to specify which projects I want open and viewable in the Library.


ad 3) In the timeline (beware: it is called sequence now!) open the itemlist on the left and you have the keywords there and you can jump to keywords in the timeline by selecting them.

ad 4) disagree. But if they made it optoional it wouldn´t hurt me.....

ad 5) I make 3 directories in every Project: FCPEparked, FCPPparked and FCPTemplates. In there I store the Events, Projects and MotionTemplates that belong to a client or project. In the Finder it takes mere seconds to move the Events.
But what does bug me is the inability to eject drives from within FCPX. Whenever I attach a drive with Events on it they come up in FCPX. No problem until you want that drive out again. You have to close FCPX for that. Silly.



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Mark Dobson
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 3:36:02 pm

[alban egger] "ad 3) In the timeline (beware: it is called sequence now!) open the itemlist on the left and you have the keywords there and you can jump to keywords in the timeline by selecting them."

Alban I think you might have misunderstood what Lance was saying.

When you create and then re-title a favourite in the Event browser, that new name for the section you have favourited ( bad word I know ) does not get transferred into your project timeline. Neither do Markers or notes stay attached to clip once they go through to 'the other side'.

Sure you can rename the clip in the Timeline index but that was not what Lance was saying. He would like the name he has given his favourite to show up in the timeline. It is not called a sequence.

This is a real pain and whilst everything is nicely organised in the event browser this does not translate into the project timeline.


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Bret Williams
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 4:56:03 pm

It's not called a timeline either in my understanding. It's called a project. It IS a timeline, but so is a sequence.


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Mark Dobson
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 5:15:20 pm

[Bret Williams] "It's not called a timeline either in my understanding. It's called a project. It IS a timeline, but so is a sequence."

Final Cut Pro X Help refers to it as the Timeline.

It is certainly not called a project.

But I guess people can call things whatever they like.


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Bret Williams
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 7:46:40 am

I understand. But if I refer to an event and a project, what am I referring to?

Event - related batch of source media with keyword collections, favorites, rejects, etc.

Project - a single timeline. To me a project is a timeline. A timeline is a project.


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 1:58:27 am

It's not technically a "sequence" nor a "timeline" nor a "project" in FCP-X.

The formal term for the timeline construct in X is the "primary storyline."

That said, if you call it a timeline, or a sequence or even a "project" if you like - as long as you're communicating successfully, I don't think it makes a whit of difference.

The true point is that if you "use it" exactly like you used the timeline in Legacy - doing all your editing by dragging clips there first - without understanding the power of pre-work int the event browser - you're leaving a good chuck of the flexibility of the new workflow on the table and won't be building the persistent data connections that can leveraged into much greater organizational power later.

But that's totally up to each user.

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 6:51:44 pm

Exactly - but even if the Favorites don't show up in the "timeline" - they need to be viewable in the browser, especially in Thumbnail viewing mode. You can select to view only Favorites but if you've "sub-clipped" a bunch of Favorites and named them say for a long interview or take you need, the filename is still all you will see. In List view you can twirl down and see Favorite name but that's the only way.

For instance if you were doing an interview show I would like to create a keyword collection called "Mr.Smith" then sub-clip (Favortie) and NAME all the soundbites I need and drag them into the Mr. Smith collection - then when I click Mr.Smith I would see a list ot thumbnail of everything I just added with the name I gave it. I no longer care about seeing the original filename. I don't want to change the name in the Timeline Index, it's too late at that point. It is called a Timeline in FCPX - that's why they have the Timeline Index window.

My wife is cutting a show where there is a 25 min. clip she had to sync with external audio - it's now called Synchronized Clip: whatever. She then Favorited and named everything she needs from that clip- She then put the view to show Favorites only - there is a list of clips all with the same name and she now has to twirl down each one to see the name she created. Crazy thing is if you select to "Hide Rejected" the view is okay - there is just one Synchronized clip to twirl down and see all the Favorites. But in show Favorites only view is wrong.

This is a feature and workflow that can be awesome but needs refining. I'm sure this will get better in future revs as long as Apple is listening to their users.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Mark Dobson
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:32:31 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "For instance if you were doing an interview show I would like to create a keyword collection called "Mr.Smith" then sub-clip (Favortie) and NAME all the soundbites I need . . .x

We work with a lot of interview material and dealing with that has been the hardest transition really.

But for us the only way is to go through an interview making favourites of all pertinent answers and then in list view re-title all the favourites with a précis of the answer. I haven't got into using notes yet.

Where we have asked many people the same question obviously we create new keyword collections and drag selections into these.

Sounds like the way you work.

I'm sure someone knows the answer, but why is there this Metadata divide between the Event Library and the Project Library that prevents retitled sections of files being visible in the timeline.




them into the Mr. Smith collection"


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 2:10:36 am

[Lance Bachelder] "This is a feature and workflow that can be awesome but needs refining. I'm sure this will get better in future revs as long as Apple is listening to their users."

I agree with this - but also feel that this is an excellent example of how trying to operate X "just like' you expected legacy to operate will bring you some grief.

Understanding the metadata "flow" is one key to understanding why it's more powerful to do some operations upstream rather than downstream - in the X metadata flow, your decisions at "upstream" points can flow downstream - where can add, delete or just change them.

If you dive in at the last stop on the train, you can't go back and get the benefits of the work you did at earlier stops. And I see a LOT of people coming to X and trying to do exactly that.

They try to edit exclusively on the timeline, and when things don't "reflect" back up (and they largely don't) they get frustrated.

This is one of the most central issues, I feel, of how people coming to X with strong legacy experience are getting tripped up. (I know it tripped ME up at first.)

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 5:50:45 am

I fully understand the difference between FCPX and legacy FCP or other NLE's - I never mentioned Bins or tabbed sequences or other legacy features and was only saying that FCPX needs refinements.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Erik Lundberg
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:19:39 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "2. Waveforms! Need to see STEREO and MONO waveforms and would like to see entire waveform not just half if possible."

Hm. I think you're actually seeing the entire waveform, and not just half of it. Zoom in closely, and yup- the negative wave is mirrored on the horisontal axis (look at the bouncy-ball behaviour of the graph). It's the only way I can interpret it. Which, I say, is just as worthless, or in some cases maybe even worse than just seeing half of it.

I kind of like to know if I'm looking at the positive side or the negative side of the waveform.

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


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Erik Lundberg
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:28:05 pm

[Erik Lundberg] "the horisontal axis"

And pardon my swedish-infested brain for not being able to spell stuff in foreign languages at this hour. Been a long week.

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


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Chris Harlan
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:29:28 pm

Lance, I'm in complete agreement with what you are saying here. The changes you outline would get me right off the fence. The one thing off the top of my head that I would add to your list are sync monitors in both the timeline and as an overlay.


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Erik Lundberg
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:49:20 pm

The problem of keeping elements in sync in fcpx is one of the most flabbergasting "features" of the software.

I simply don't get it. Why was timecode overlays not implemented from day one? Because? Or sync indication in the timeline?

Ok. Don't answer it. I know. Rethorical question. I'll be quiet now.

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 8:44:59 pm

Agreed! Totally need sync indicators - I had just talked about them in another post and forgot to ad them to my list.

The thing is FCPX is so deep and truly "pro" in some areas and then completely lacking in some of the day to day things we use all the time with legacy FCP and other NLE's.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Mark Raudonis
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 12:18:39 am

[Lance Bachelder] "The thing is FCPX is so deep and truly "pro" in some areas and then completely lacking in some of the day to day things we use all the time with legacy FCP and other NLE's."

Lance,

You've just perfectly summed up my impression of FCP-X. The GUI design team must have had internal battles on a feature by feature basis: "It's gotta be Professional... but it's gotta be simple. It's gotta be
streamlined... but it's gotta handle deep metadata."

I could go on, but this "split personality" is what frustrates so many long time users. I don't care how many times some die hards on this list say "But you just don't get it!". There were some choices made during the
design process that just make me ask "What were you thinking?".

mark



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Joseph Owens
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 12:54:29 am

[Mark Raudonis] " There were some choices made during the
design process that just make me ask "What were you thinking?"."


1. Trying to "build on the brand" out of one side of their mouths and calling it a "1.0" of something out of the other.

2. The main thing it does is cuts and dissolves. Now off the top of my head, how many applications can do that?

3. The marketing department lost track of what the difference is, to a buyer, between a "feature" and a "benefit".

4. FCX looks more to me like "Esperanto" and the "Dvorak keyboard" every day.
Yes, the invented super-language and the astonishingly efficient letter layout. And how has that been working out? Or should I type (you wouldn't believe me if I said I swapped out my keyboard to Dvorak to do this, but ) Kiel havas ke estita ellabor? Get over it, its the new pair-a-dimes. The two I have left to rub together.

5. True, FCP7 needed to be burned to the ground, but not with everyone still in the house.

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 1:44:53 am

Lol!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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David Roth Weiss
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 6:00:24 pm

[Joseph Owens] "True, FCP7 needed to be burned to the ground, but not with everyone still in the house."

Love it!!!

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 2:23:59 am

[Mark Raudonis] "I could go on, but this "split personality" is what frustrates so many long time users. I don't care how many times some die hards on this list say "But you just don't get it!". There were some choices made during the
design process that just make me ask "What were you thinking?".

mark
"


Yeah, but what if "what they were thinking" was: "finding simpler ways to express complexity was how we've made this the largest company on earth." so let's keep doing that.

As every creative learns at some point, it's a lot harder to achieve simplicity while still dealing effectively with complexity, than to just slap every single creative idea up on the screen and plumb them all together.

In fact, there were some discussions of the coming Mountain Lion interface on AppleInsider today. In it, there are examples of the window title bars compared between the Mac OS and Windows. The approaches are startlingly different. The Windows Word title bars are awash with tiny icons for everything to give the user the feeling of a dashboard full of countless choices - that are always there whether the choice makes sense at the moment or not. The Pages title bar is elegantly stripped down to essential choices, arranged more beautifully and if you're doing a specific task - there's the capacity for modal change - much like the inspector in FCP-X that shows titling choices when you're titling, and sound choices when you're working with a sound clip.

Both empower the user. But differently. I bet the simpler approach took a LOT more time and effort to perfect.

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 6:05:07 am

Yeah you're pushing it now Bill. Apple already used your philosophy to create the most ubiquitous editing software on Earth - Final Cut Pro. A program that took on Avid and the rest and beat them all with a track record of Oscar winning films and Emmy winning television and was still growing! 2 million paid users just waiting to plunk down their cash for FCP Studio 4.

What if all Apple ever did was just make a 64 bit version of legacy FCP? Maybe a few other refinements and updates to the rest of the Studio? Premiere Pro, Sony Vegas and Avid were all re-written as 64bit apps but they all were able to do so without changing the ease of use and functionality and in Adobe's and Sony's case re-write without changing the interface!

I'm a fan of FCPX and hope it continues to get better and better but I'm not sure if it will really ever be "better"...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Bret Williams
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 7:59:30 am

In all the speed tests I've done and others I've seen, FCP X is actually slower to render than FCP 7 and gets 1 less layer of RT with ProRes. Isn't 64bit wonderful.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 6:11:15 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "What if all Apple ever did was just make a 64 bit version of legacy FCP? Maybe a few other refinements and updates to the rest of the Studio? Premiere Pro, Sony Vegas and Avid were all re-written as 64bit apps but they all were able to do so without changing the ease of use and functionality and in Adobe's and Sony's case re-write without changing the interface!"

Damn Lance, you're beginning to sound just like me now. That's precisely what I've been saying all along since June 21st, 2011, which you earlier seemed to take with great offense.

Remind me, what were we arguing about anyway? I can't remember.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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John Heagy
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 5:51:23 am

Yup the two heads of the Pro Apps team. ProRes, Xsan locations and stem export vs iMovie import and all the missing FCP 7 features.

Which head will win out? Can they coexist?

One could argue Photoshop has but then there's Photoshop Elements.


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T.a. Franks
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 24, 2012 at 11:48:58 pm

I could agree but most of the your points are more a personal preference.
The Send to could be cool but I can see the Roles be going to Logic and Motion in the near future.
But a open in editor (PSD) should have been added with 10.0.3.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 12:03:05 am

I agree Roles are cool and have potential but you still have to assign the roles and then export them - so much easier to just right click and Send To:

Roles are only necessary because they did away with tracks. Is this really better?

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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James Mortner
Re: FCPX... My 2 cents
on Feb 25, 2012 at 3:24:30 am

[Lance Bachelder] "Roles are only necessary because they did away with tracks. Is this really better?"

Exactly !


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