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Matt Babcock
FCPX and XMP
on Feb 15, 2012 at 5:12:40 pm

Does anyone know what kind of XMP support FCPX has if any?


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Noah Kadner
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 15, 2012 at 5:25:08 pm

What sort are you looking for?

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Panasonic AC160/130.


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Matt Babcock
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 15, 2012 at 5:51:38 pm

I guess most importantly, can it read XMP fields at all. For example could I update a file in Bridge and fill in IPTC fields and have those be accessible in FCPX


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Dennis Radeke
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 15, 2012 at 10:46:59 pm

Hey there - Dennis from Adobe. I just launched FCP X and scoured around the interface to see if there was anything like Adobe's metadata panel. Unfortunately, I came up empty. Hit the help box and similarly came up with nothing. I would love to hear from someone if I'm in error here, but I'm pretty confident that there is no XMP support for FCP X.

Hope I'm wrong.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 15, 2012 at 11:30:18 pm

Would Apple even consider XMP? Seems like they always go their own direction, especially when we're talking open source and open standards... Couldn't someone write a way to take data entered in Bridge and conform it to FCPX such as roles, favorites etc?

XMP looks like a great thing, what other major post or fx software company is using it?

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Matt Babcock
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 2:19:42 am

For video it is really only Adobe that I've found so far, which makes them a hands down winner if you want embedded metadata as a lynch pin in your workflow. The fields aren't perfect for video but it is more like an oval peg and a round hole rather than a square one.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 12:13:09 pm

There are a couple of broadcast vendors that use it as well as a couple of MAM (Media Asset Management) vendors as well. Chyron uses it for graphics, Media Beacon and Day (now Adobe) use it for MAM. For print, XMP is used as well, but that's not my area of expertise.

Point is that there are uses in broadcast, it's free, extensible and open so we try to foster its growth. Bridge is as well, so perhaps someone would write a plugin for it to allow a specific workflow to map the metadata from XMP to FCP X.

Here's the SDK page if anyone wants to pass it on: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/xmp.html


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Matt Babcock
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 1:03:11 pm

Additionally I believe Final Cut Server can work with it as well. And depending on your workflows I think Final Cut Server and Adobe Premiere actually have a lot of advantages over using it with FCP since you should be able to get round trip metadata. I'm planing on testing this out in the near future.

Dennis are there any other NLEs that can read xmp?


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Dennis Radeke
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 5:06:35 pm

[Matt Babcock] "Dennis are there any other NLEs that can read xmp?"

Not that I know of Matt. Avid has their own propietary metadata format, FCP X is known what it is and isn't around metadata and I can't honestly speak to either Edius or Vegas, but would doubt that they do it.

Metadata is still (frustratingly) just becoming more aware to editors and content creators and distribution. The industry is getting there, but it's too slow in my opinion. Adobe's done a lot here, but frankly we can do better as well.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 7:00:18 pm

Vegas has a Media Manager where metadata can be created. The biggest problem with metadata regardless of system, is that it must be created by someone. On an indie feature for instance there is usually not a post budget sufficient fora pro Asst. Editor or 1st so there would never be money for someone to sit and create proper tags for all the shots. If I was cutting a union show it would be nice to assign an assistant to create proper metadata for every shot based on the needs of the show. I haven't tried XMP yet as I haven't had a show to cut in PPro - but it is on the list to try for the next feature film...

For many of us, without a proper budget, trained staff and schedule that allows for organization, metadata will remain one of those things we wish we could use every time we see a cool demo of how great it is...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Matt Babcock
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 7:15:28 pm

I'm currently working in a museum context and metadata is very valued so time is made for it.

Before this I was working in a post house where we had APs adding basic metadata after their shoots into Final Cut Server. Eliminating the need for a edit station/training to add metadata really increased the amount we capture without adding a to much work to anyone person's plate. But since that data was essentially trapped in Final Cut Server without more custom scripting than my company was willing to pay for it the practice fell out of use.

Working in Adobe Premiere with Final Cut Server should allow for either the editor or the AP/AE to add metadata and have it be visible by all parties.

Dennis, does Premiere have dynamic bins based on metadata like FCPx? (I've been meaning to cut a project in Premiere for about a year now and keep getting behind so I can't waste time learning something new)


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Steve Connor
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 7:25:40 pm

[Matt Babcock] "Dennis, does Premiere have dynamic bins based on metadata like FCPx?"

Good question, If it hasn't already I'm betting it will :)

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 9:28:11 pm

Does Final Cut Server even exist anymore?

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Matt Babcock
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 9:43:54 pm

It isn't for sale anymore but there are still places running it. Despite it's issues it was an invaluable for us. We had around 15 edit suits being fed by it and couldn't have managed the media management for that many suites as understaffed as we were without it. Those facility are going to need to roll to a new NLE soon and not having to give up their server installs is a nice bonus to transitioning to premiere.


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 16, 2012 at 10:09:12 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "Does Final Cut Server even exist anymore?"

Nope. That's a bit of a sore subject for some of the folks who had built infrastructure around it...

This underscores the importance of metadata portability and open standards.

The more effort you put into a MAM (media asset manager), the more value it has to your organization -- and the more dependent you become upon it. If you can't move your metadata freely in and out of a product, you are tying yourself to it. The more data you put in, the more expensive and painful it becomes to transition.

We're still in the early days of metadata for media, so I think these standards are only just beginning to emerge.

XMP is open and extensible, so it could a great solution to this problem.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dennis Radeke
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 17, 2012 at 11:09:56 am

[Matt Babcock] "Dennis, does Premiere have dynamic bins based on metadata like FCPx?"

Premiere Pro does not organize media into bins based on metadata unless you do it yourself manually. However, Premiere Pro offers a search field in the project panel that allows you to search across any piece of metadata including speech to text or script metadata. So, for example if you had a bunch of clips that had 'cars' in them, simply type the word 'cars' in the field and only those clips would show up. Drag them into your 'cars' bin and you'd be set.

However, if one clip had both 'cars' and 'motorcycles' in it you cannot dynamically have that clip exist in both bins. Of course, now's about the time I should point you to the public feature request page on Adobe - https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

I'd be curious as to this question: If you could have one feature from FCP X, what would it be?

Dennis


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Matt Babcock
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 17, 2012 at 3:27:39 pm

That is a really hard question. Despite all of it's flaws FCPX does have some impressive features. As a caveat I've mostly been reading about it and have spent very little keyboard time with it yet. But honestly the dynamic metadata sorting and some of the other metadata workflow elements like auto assigning metadata to clips or assigning audio tracks based on metadata interest me the most since I can see them being immediate time savers which is what it is all about these days. The video world has lagged behind on metadata for far too long.


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 17, 2012 at 3:51:52 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "I'd be curious as to this question: If you could have one feature from FCP X, what would it be?"

As the resident graphics guy, I'd love to see dynamic link expanded to include something like FCPX/M5's rigging/effects-publishing integration.

Being able to build titles, effects, and transitions in AE for use in Premiere Pro -- without requiring the editor to actually work in AE -- could be really cool.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Tapio Haaja
Re: FCPX and XMP
on Feb 18, 2012 at 8:39:05 pm

[Walter Soyka] "As the resident graphics guy, I'd love to see dynamic link expanded to include something like FCPX/M5's rigging/effects-publishing integration.

Being able to build titles, effects, and transitions in AE for use in Premiere Pro -- without requiring the editor to actually work in AE -- could be really cool.
"


Yeah I second this. This would be killer feature! We see already how FCPX gains quickly great new effects, transitions etc. because FCPX/Motion 5 collaboration.

Best
Tapio Haaja

On-Air Promotion Producer
http://avseikkailuja.blogspot.com/


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