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FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!

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Lou Borella
FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 4:01:36 pm

... other than Firewire. Which was never frame accurate.

If I remember correctly there is no support for tape based output except Firewire in ANY version of Final Cut Pro!!! There was always a need to purchase additional hardware to get any form of deck control or analog/SDI input/output.

You people are complaining about a missing feature that was never included.

And the complaints about not having a Log and Transfer window are comical. Of course there are ways to import footage.

Lou ...



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Michael Hancock
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 4:08:50 pm

You had to purchase an AJA card or Blackmagic, yes, but they interfaced with FCP, right? FCPX doesn't. Hence the problem.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 4:13:56 pm

FCPX doesn't what?
Doesn't interface with 3rd party hardware?
And you know this because how?

The software has been available for 4 hours!!!!
AJA already has beta drivers available.
Im sure Blackmagic has drivers coming.

Take it easy already. The FCP world of developers are not going to stop innovating and adapting because of a software upgrade. If you seriously thing that Apple hasn't let these companies in on the code so they can keep supporting the software then you really haven't been paying attention.



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James Mortner
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 4:29:27 pm

@Lou Agreed !


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 4:39:57 pm

Final Cut Pro has a list of professional deck control protocols including RS-422, RS-232 and even VISCA built-in. It is a part of the application. It is not third-party.


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John Christie
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 4:35:45 pm

You could always use a $49 USB to RS422 adapter in FCP 1 to FCP 7. We used to use these back in the day when we would log beta tapes.

So to say it's a "missing feature that was never included" is wrong. This has always required some hardware help as computers don't have 422 ports built in.

Cheers

John


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 4:52:43 pm

And you do exactly what with that logged footage from that Beta deck?

Nothing!!!

Unless you had a capture card or external box.
No ingest.
No output.
No insert edit.

NOTHING.

except with limited firewire support.



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John Christie
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 5:27:28 pm

But my point is that with appropriate hardware, machine control and ingest from tape has been there since version 1.2. Those who needed the extra hardware could buy it knowing it would work with FCP.

As Drew pointed out, FCP is just software, it's always required hardware to work the way you want it to.

Cheers

John


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 5:31:27 pm

And with appropriate hardware FCPX will probably do what you want it to do by version 1.2!!!
Maybe even earlier since AJA already has beta drivers available.

So stop whining there is no support for tape based output.
Other than Firewire IT WAS NEVER THERE.



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Michael Aranyshev
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 6:11:05 pm

[Lou Borella] "Maybe even earlier since AJA already has beta drivers available."

You don't understand what you're talking about. AJA beta is simply an extended desktop. Two color space conversions, unknown quality deinterlacer and scaler. Totally useless.


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 6:18:29 pm

THEY ARE BETA DRIVERS FOR GOODNESS SAKE.
BETA.
Don't you understand what that means?
NOT FINAL YET!!!
WILL BE UPDATED!!!

Do you think AJA is just going to close up shop or maybe stop supporting Apple products?
Do you really think they can survive as a company supporting just Vegas and Premier?

Did you forget to mention that you can LOG AND CAPTURE AND MASTER TO TAPE FROM EXTERNAL SOURCES WITH THESE DRIVERS or did you conveniently omit it from your post to make your point?

No its not built into FCPX yet. But its less than 6 hours old at this point!!!



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Michael Aranyshev
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 7:00:10 pm

Don't yell at me. "Beta" means "not all the bugs cleaned out". Beta doesn't mean "using totally different API (application programming interface) than release".

[Lou Borella] "Did you forget to mention that you can LOG AND CAPTURE AND MASTER TO TAPE FROM EXTERNAL SOURCES WITH THESE DRIVERS or did you conveniently omit it from your post to make your point?"

It's irrlevant. AJA VTR Xchange is completely different application and has nothing to do with FCPX.


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 7:08:02 pm

The AJA drivers are BETA drivers.
Meaning NOT THE FINAL version.
Meaning that they have room to grow.
CONSIDERING THE HOST SOFTWARE IS ONLY 6 HOURS THEY PROBABLY WILL GET BETTER.
Meaning they could mature to support more of the AJA hardware family.
Meaning just like FCP V1 they could create functionality that wasn't there.
Like the ability to INGEST/OUTPUT TO SOURCES OTHER THAN FIREWIRE.
Which is one of the complaints on this board about the new version of FCPX even though it never existed in the original version without 3rd party support.



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Tom Daigon
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 7:09:12 pm

Lou,
FYI AJA supports not only FCP, Vegas, Adobe but also Avid, Autodesk (Smoke, etc), Fusion, Cineform, Nuke and Media 100. Just to keep your facts straight. ;-)

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 7:16:35 pm

I never said it didn't.
But most of those products are supporting applications.
Meaning that they are used in conjunction with other applications.
they are not a primary source of injest of material.
Fusion, Cineform, Nuke usually get their footage from edit workstations that have already acquired footage from sources like FCP AVID VEGAS or Premier.

I would bet the installed user base of FCP with an AJA product installed far outnumbers the Nuke, Cineform, AutoDesk and Media100 workstations with an AJA product installed. Mostly because those secondary workstations are complimentary to the edit stations where ingest happens.

AJA would be hurting if they lost the FCP community.

Media100? Seriously?



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Michael Hancock
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 7:20:00 pm

Media 100 works natively with 2K and 4K Red files - something FCPX can't do. And, your AJA card works with Media 100 - something it doesn't do with FCPx.

So yeah - Media 100. Why not?

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 7:24:05 pm

So Media100 is now a viable alternative to FCPX.
A piece of software that is 7 hours old for a program that has been on life support for years.
A piece of software that developers have barely gotten a chance to play with yet. To write drivers for.

You are joking right?



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Michael Hancock
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 7:38:35 pm

[Lou Borella] "So Media100 is now a viable alternative to FCPX."
Yeah. It runs on a Mac, has the features people need, works with the third party hardware they own. Why wouldn't it be an alternative?


[Lou Borella] "A piece of software that developers have barely gotten a chance to play with yet. To write drivers for."
Apple could have given a beta version to developers to work with. Apparently they didn't. So yeah, the software may be 7 hours old but that's hardly Blackmagic or AJA or any plugin manufacturer's fault for not having drivers or new plugins, if they've only had it for 7 hours too.

[Lou Borella] "You are joking right?"
Nope.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Drew Lahat
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 5:11:04 pm

Huh?
FCP is a software. Indeed, the software can't do something without hardware. My iTunes never had audio support, you had to buy speakers or headphones.

And tape based output is in the software. As was said the RS422 control is built in, as well as the Edit to Tape menu option.


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 5:27:01 pm

The point is that you NEEDED to buy 3rd party hardware for the Edit to Tape function to be useful outside of DV or DV50 footage!!!
For any type of mastering or ingest other than DV/Firewire you NEEDED 3rd party hardware.

People are talking like it was something that was taken away.

Again. AJA and Blackmagic filled in these functionality holes in previous versions. I'm sure they will do the same here.

Besides the fact that now you CAN do 4k or Red very easily.



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Michael Aranyshev
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 5:32:22 pm

[Lou Borella] "The point is that you NEEDED to buy 3rd party hardware for the Edit to Tape function to be useful outside of DV or DV50 footage!!! "

The point is there was an interface for third-party hardware built-in right int FCP 1. There is none in FCPX. Read AJA documents about their beta drivers.


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 5:38:25 pm

So the beef is about the lack of an interface.
I get it ...
even though the interface was useless for ingest/output unless paired with 3rd party software.

And I did read the AJA pdf on the BETA drivers. BETA DRIVERS.
Because I have a KONA LHe card and a BVW-75 and a AJ-SD93 I was very curious about tape based support. But you know what. I HAVEN'T USED ANY OF MY DECKS IN ABOUT 2 YEARS!!!
Almost every camera crew sends me footage on harddrives or SD cards at this point.
I can't remember the last time I bought tapestock. I can't even remember the last time I added bars to the beginning of a sequence!!!

The software was released THIS MORNING.



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Michael Aranyshev
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 5:52:44 pm

[Lou Borella] "The software was released THIS MORNING."

Fine. Put it on the shelf for a month an see if some missing pieces of code will magically grow.


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Lou Borella
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 6:00:57 pm

You mean like an update?
Or maybe a 3rd party plugin?
Or a driver set for a capture card?

Sigh ... you're right. That probably will not happen.

I think I'll switch to Premiere. The production bundle is only $1700 and Adobe hasn't been gouging their customers for years now with feeble updates at full pricing. Or I can go with the wonderful subscription pricing.
Or maybe I'll switch to AVID. Lord knows every time they release a new version of any number of their editing products everything goes smoothly. Maybe my user settings will work next time without having to rebuild them.
Or how about Vegas. They are kind of a viable option at this point right?

5 hours and counting ....



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Kris Anderson
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 21, 2011 at 9:33:41 pm

5 hours and counting...?

So when I buy my new car they can deliver the engine next week?

FCPX is a joke. Can't connect to SAN storage, no edl export, no xml import unless you buy a $495 plug, no R3D support?

Have fun selling your toy software to any major client or any facility that uses multiple suites.


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tyler Granlund
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:37:29 am

FCP has since day 1 included the edit to tape function. I didn't buy FCPX, but if it doesnt have edit to tape function you obviously lost something. Maybe I can just upload my masters to youtube?


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Paul Buhl
Re: FCP has never had Tape Based Output!!!
on Jan 6, 2012 at 12:58:42 am

"You people are complaining about a missing feature that was never included."

Not quite true. The complaint is that FCP X doesn't support output through third party HD SDI cards like AJA, which is how we output to pro decks. FCP 7 has this support, and a deck control interface that works great for output to tape using pro decks.

This is also how we send video to professional monitors, and that is also a major problem.



Paul Buhl
Feature Film Editor
http://www.paulbuhl.com
Staff Editor
http://www.hydraulx.com


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