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The big three

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

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Michael Sanders
The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 10:10:03 am

For what its worth, despite being a huge fan of FCP X, after the dust here are my big three apprehensions about FCP X:

1) Editing multichannel audio in the timeline. Even with just two channels it really is a pain, to make sure everything stays in sync.

2) Screen layout. At home I edit on a 17" MBP with a 19" monitor attached and I still can't get it right. I can never have enough timeline view.

What I'd really like is some kind of HUD screen layout designer where you drag the panes around to suit an then keyboard shortcuts would switch between. But failing that at least an option to have the timeline in a window by itself.

3) File format. Why oh why oh why have Apple decided to put render files in the project folder? I bet a lot of people are having problems with playback because they have lots of rendered effects and the project is on the system disk which isn't fast enough.

I am sure there's a justifiable reason - like it gets rid of the annoying "scratch disk cannot be found error" but please Apple, if its meant to be professional editing software we can work that one out. Why not put all render files on the events disk by default with maybe an option to move them if the use chooses.

If you did that then backing up projects wouldn't be the song and dance it is now!

Other than that (oh and a few minor niggles), Apple you've got me.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Erik Lindahl
Re: The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 10:58:57 am

Agree on all of the above and have sent feedback to Apple about it. The whole way FCPX handles projects is IMO a problem. Apple should see this them selves when it takes 13 steps to NOT open every single project / event you have on your system automagically.


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Tom Wolsky
Re: The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 12:41:46 pm

Don't put your project folder on the system drive.

All the best,

Tom

"Final Cut Pro X for iMovie and Final Cut Express Users" from Focal Press
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Coming in 2012 "Complete Training for FCPX" from Class on Demand


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Michael Sanders
Re: The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 1:29:03 pm

Totally agree Tom, that was something I sussed very early on. I just wonder if anyone else has been caught out by it and why Apple did it in the first place.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Tom Wolsky
Re: The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 1:37:11 pm

They have to go somewhere. Render files have always been associated with projects. In legacy FCP each folder had a project folder with render files. The only difference is project files are now part of the folder and backup structure in one place.

All the best,

Tom

"Final Cut Pro X for iMovie and Final Cut Express Users" from Focal Press
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Coming in 2012 "Complete Training for FCPX" from Class on Demand


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Michael Sanders
Re: The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 1:46:40 pm

Agreed they have to go somewhere, but render files don't really need to be backup as religiously as project files.

If render files were in the events folder (and backup up with them), project files - sorry folders - could be a lot smaller, would not need to be on a fast drive, could live on the system disk and then be backed up with time machine or disk image - which would make it much easier to clone say your entire project folder to dropbox, USB etc.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Tom Wolsky
Re: The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 2:17:39 pm

Have you heard of Event Manager X?

All the best,

Tom

"Final Cut Pro X for iMovie and Final Cut Express Users" from Focal Press
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Coming in 2012 "Complete Training for FCPX" from Class on Demand


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Bill Davis
Re: The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 11:21:50 pm

[Michael Sanders] "Agreed they have to go somewhere, but render files don't really need to be backup as religiously as project files.

If render files were in the events folder (and backup up with them), project files - sorry folders - could be a lot smaller, would not need to be on a fast drive, could live on the system disk and then be backed up with time machine or disk image - which would make it much easier to clone say your entire project folder to dropbox, USB etc."


II think this works better in theory than it does in practical terms.

I just had to re-load and re-work a series of 22 interviews - about 1.3 hours of total video.

My disk images re-loaded in a snap, but since I'd used the render manager to blow out all the render files to re-capture drive space a month or so back - X had to re-create ALL the thumbnails and proxy files.

It took a couple of hours to put the project back into "live" status - not something I was expecting or had planned for.

Ii can solve this via more drive space and making sure I preserve render files and thumbnails as well as my original media, but that kinda presumes an "office" array of hard drives and backups.

And one of the charms of X is how well I can take it along on a trip and keep working via simple firewire drive.

It's no "fatal flaw" - just another way you have to learn how FCP-X approaches things and learn what will and won't cause delays as you develop your workflow.

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Andrew Richards
Re: The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 1:57:58 pm

[Michael Sanders] "I just wonder if anyone else has been caught out by it and why Apple did it in the first place."

There needs to be a default location that can be depended on for any given Mac. Legacy FCP defaults all the scratch disks to the user's Documents folder. Moving that default to the Movies folder is a logical step for an app that works with video.

Best,
Andy

EDIT: I agree though there ought to be a setting to point the render files to optimized storage.


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Mark Morache
Re: The big three
on Feb 14, 2012 at 7:32:19 pm

[Michael Sanders] "Editing multichannel audio in the timeline. Even with just two channels it really is a pain, to make sure everything stays in sync."

Sync doesn't become an issue if you keep the audio embedded in the clip.

I understand that you want to edit the individual channels. We shoot with four channels running on our cameras, and I've gotten into the habit of opening the clips in timeline mode, and making the changes I want to.

It's not that difficult. It's not nearly as easy as funning through the timeline in FCP7 with an automated audio control surface, but it works.

[Michael Sanders] "I can never have enough timeline view. "

You can use the roles index to minimize selected audio clips. There may be some files you don't need to see, and this adds space to the timeline.

I also compound clips quite a bit. Especially when I have a layered video effect. You can break the compound clips to see the clips in the context of the timeline.

I've mentioned before that I wish we could open up a compound in the timeline instead of in it's own timeline, like the way Avid clips expand. I like to see what I'm doing in relation to the clips around the compound.

[Michael Sanders] "Why oh why oh why have Apple decided to put render files in the project folder?"

I agree that this is problematic. I understand it, but it makes huge project files.

I also hate that when I duplicate the project I must duplicate the renders. (a way around this is to create a compound clip in a project, duplicate the clip as an audition, and then step into the audition to make any changes to create a new version of something... this seems to re-use render files)

I'm just a little uncomfortable with the huge number of files created in the render folder. I have a 3 1/2 minute story, and there are over 1600 items in the render folder. I'm glad it all stays "under the hood" but seriously!

---------
Don't live your life in a secondary storyline.

Mark Morache
FCPX/FCP7/Xpri/Avid
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
http://fcpx.wordpress.com


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Andy Neil
Re: The big three
on Feb 15, 2012 at 10:42:32 pm

[Mark Morache] "I also hate that when I duplicate the project I must duplicate the renders."

Actually you don't have to duplicate the renders. When you select your project in the project library and hit duplicate, simply uncheck the "Include Render Files" checkbox.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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