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Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?

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Simon Ubsdell
Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 2:21:54 pm

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who is currently using FCPX to cut theatrical movie trailers or anything similar, i.e. on-air promos for narrative drama/film, TV spots for movies, movie trailers for web use, etc.

As anyone who has cut this kind of material will know there are a number of very particular demands that need to be met which are different in many ways to the challenges faced editors in other fields.

This is a completely open-ended, non-judgemental question. I know what obstacles I currently face in trying to use it for this kind of work, but I am also very aware that there are ways in which it would make the job a lot more pleasurable.

With absurdly little time to spare this week, I made the incredibly foolhardy decision to cut (or rather recut) a movie trailer that was destined for use at the Berlin Film Festival entirely on FCPX. It shouldn't have worked out, but it did. And surprisingly well.

I received the materials at 8pm on Monday night, had the first cut out on Vimeo for approval by 2am on Tuesday, delivered 4 more cuts during the day and had the final piece completed by 5pm.

Admittedly, it was a relatively simple job - the basis of the edit was already there from an FCP7 edit completed a few months back; I had to remake the trailer using new source material for both sound and picture, change all the music, tweak a few scenes and devise a whole new ending.

The audio was simple enough that I could mix it inside FCPX which was a great advantage, as there is currently no solution to getting an OMF of the audio out in any satisfactory fashion. I downloaded Xto7 the following day to see what the results would have been and virtually nothing came through as it should have.

But that aside, the speed of the entire process (and I can't claim to be especially fast on FCPX yet) was an eye-opener.

I really liked the speed and simplicity of getting the approval cuts onto Vimeo via the Share menu - a small thing but of very significant impact in this case.

I liked very much being able to create music edits inside secondary storylines which now seems to me the best way of music editing there is, knowing that you can easily fine tune all the edits without affecting anything else in the timeline. (Just as well, of course, because music editing with connected clips is not a serious proposition.)

There was of course a lot that I didn't like but then we've all heard about those things far too often to bring them up here.

I will just mention something that would clearly have become a major bugbear in a more complex scenario, and that's the clutter of the audio timeline. Very quickly you can end up with something utterly unwieldy and confusing that Roles do nothing to alleviate, and the only way around it would be to spend time (which I clearly didn't have in this case) shunting clips up and down to make more visual sense of it. (It's particularly annoying that secondary storylines can't be minimized but this would be an easy fix.)

I know this has been discussed at great length before, but from this experience I would say that the use of vertical screen real estate in the magnetic timeline is seriously sub-optimal for all but the most undemanding audio editing situations.

Rambling a bit here, but it would be great to hear the answer the original question, thanks!

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Noam Kroll
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 3:41:09 pm

Hi Simon,

I just signed up to the cow to respond to this. I use FCPX alongside 7, MC6 and Premiere 5.5. I'm giving them all a chance, but have been really loving FCP X and it is becoming by editor of choice, especially for my own material.

I recently directed my first feature film, titled 'Footsteps'. It was shot on the RED MX camera, and I decided to cut it in premiere due to the native support for R3D. The process was okay, premiere got the job done but I was relatively underwhelmed by the software. With that said though I was running it on a 12 core mac pro and apparently premiere is less buggy on PC's. Regardless, I anticipate by the time I edit my next film, FCP X will be robust enough to handle it and that is likely the direction I'll go. In contrast to many users, I love the interface and am finding it more and more difficult to go back to 7, avid, etc.

Anyways, I'm by no means a trailer editor, but I needed to give it a stab as I am starting to submit my recently completed film to festivals and hold some private screenings - and wanted to create some promo material.

FCP X was absolutely amazing for cutting this trailer. I was able to breeze through the entire film so quickly and easily, using keyword collections to mark moments from the various acts that would be applicable to the trailer.

Again, I'm by no means a feature trailer editor, but I did what I could in a very short amount of time. This was cut in about an hour and a half:

Footsteps - Theatrical Length Trailer from Noam Kroll on Vimeo.



Thanks for sharing your experience. It's encouraging to see I'm not the only one actually using this thing.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 4:25:53 pm

Nice job, Noam!

Most trailer editors I know would expect to take at least a week to cut a theatrical trailer, at any rate three days minimum, so that's pretty damn good for an hour and a half!!!

Did you mix the sound inside FCPX?

Movie looks great - best of luck with it on the festival circuit.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Noam Kroll
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 4:32:09 pm

Thanks for the feedback Simon!

I would have liked to have had more time with it.. At least a few days, but it had to be rushed out as per my co producers request. We'll likely be recutting it at some point to polish it up a bit.

As for the audio, It was roughly mixed in FCP X. The audio mixing tools from logic that are built in are absolutely fantastic. With that said though, I was using an already rough mixed dialogue track from protools which had been synced with the video. All I really needed to do it X was drop in the music tracks, adjust some levels and other basic adjustments.

I'd love to see some of the material you've been cutting on X. Keep us all posted when some of it is viewable!


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Shane Ross
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 8:09:59 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Most trailer editors I know would expect to take at least a week to cut a theatrical trailer, at any rate three days minimum"

I currently cut trailers, and yes, I get about 3 days for the rough cut. But that includes the time needed to watch the movie and choose selects (half day). And then find the right music (that takes a good half day if not more) And then cut, recut...cut again, and present a rough cut.

[Simon Ubsdell] "so that's pretty damn good for an hour and a half!!!"

I suspect the quickness there was due to familiarity with the material. My 3 days includes getting familiar with the material, and writing the spot.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 8:18:32 pm

[Shane Ross] "I currently cut trailers, and yes, I get about 3 days for the rough cut."

Yup, and it gets shorter all the time! And you talk about rough cuts - is anybody actually allowed to present a "rough cut" these days? It seems the sound needs to be fully mixed, the pictures graded, the graphics all done - the concept of the offline seems to have gone for good.

I know (not sure how!) that you're not one of the biggest fans of FCPX, but do you know of anybody in LA who is even thinking about using it for trailers? I did hear that Trailer Park were among the very few beta testers - do you know if that's true?

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 9:56:39 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I know (not sure how!) that you're not one of the biggest fans of FCPX"

I'm pretty vocal about that, in many places. :)


[Simon Ubsdell] "but do you know of anybody in LA who is even thinking about using it for trailers?"

I know of no one in the professional LA market considering FCX for anything. Trailers, commercials, narrative shows, docs, corporate. I know several trailer and commercial editors who gave it a go, but because FCX lacks workflow options they rely on (EDL exporting, for example...as well as SOLID broadcast monitoring), it isn't an option at this time. Plus, this town is full of people with old habits. Getting them to go to the new thing takes years and tons of arm twisting.

[Simon Ubsdell] "I did hear that Trailer Park were among the very few beta testers - do you know if that's true?"

Yeah, I know they tested...I know they gave a quote. But I don't think they are using it yet.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 10:46:42 pm

[Shane Ross] "I know of no one in the professional LA market considering FCX for anything. Trailers, commercials, narrative shows, docs, corporate. I know several trailer and commercial editors who gave it a go, but because FCX lacks workflow options they rely on (EDL exporting, for example...as well as SOLID broadcast monitoring), it isn't an option at this time."

Thanks for the feedback - pretty much what I expected from my sources over there. As you say, there are some basic things that we absolutely have to have, whether we like them or not, or whether or not we believe them to be the best possible options, simply because this kind of work is so heavily dependent on being able to mesh seamlessly with what our clients deliver to us, our suppliers expect from us, and so on.

EDL, OMF, broadcast monitoring that actually works, multicam that actually works, and lots of smaller things ("gang" is a big one for me as I'm sure it is for you, as is simultaneous feedback about timecode from multiple sources, and so on) are really non-negotiable essentials as things currently stand. Even if the "next generation of editors" who will only ever distribute on the web don't understand why could possibly still need them.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Jason Myres
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 5:29:58 am

[Shane Ross] "I know of no one in the professional LA market considering FCX for anything."

You may not, but I do system engineering for companies all over Los Angeles, I can personally tell you with 10.0.3 the flood gates have just opened. I recently spoke over the phone with a good friend who is a senior post engineer at a very large media company, and in a few weeks they will be pulling the trigger on FCPX company-wide.

While I agree that it isn't ready for certain segments, FCPX is absolutely perfect for many companies that have high-volume, rapid-turnaround environments with hundreds of editors in locations all over the world.

In one year FCPX will be everywhere you look.

JM


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Chris Harlan
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 8:09:44 am

[Jason Myres] "[Shane Ross] "I know of no one in the professional LA market considering FCX for anything."

You may not, but I do system engineering for companies all over Los Angeles, I can personally tell you with 10.0.3 the flood gates have just opened. I recently spoke over the phone with a good friend who is a senior post engineer at a very large media company, and in a few weeks they will be pulling the trigger on FCPX company-wide.

While I agree that it isn't ready for certain segments, FCPX is absolutely perfect for many companies that have high-volume, rapid-turnaround environments with hundreds of editors in locations all over the world.

In one year FCPX will be everywhere you look.

JM
"


Sorry, Jason. I got a back what Shane is saying here. I have many contacts at Studios, Networks, Cable Channels, Post facilities, and boutique houses and NOBODY is saying what you are. It's not that there isn't some interest, but its tepid at best. I don't mean to be confrontational, but I'm just not seeing it. What is your definition of a very large media company? Mine would be Warner Bros., Sony, Paramount.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 9:51:15 am

[Chris Harlan] "What is your definition of a very large media company? Mine would be Warner Bros., Sony, Paramount."

I'd say Jason is not talking about a movie studio or anything like it to judge from his description:

"a very large media company"

" have high-volume, rapid-turnaround environments with hundreds of editors in locations all over the world"

This sounds much more like a news outlet than an entertainment company and FCPX does fit the news editing model pretty well.

My point in starting this thread - and with your experience I think you will appreciate more than most what I'm saying - is that there are many, many requirements that trailer editing (and its associated disciplines) impose on the editor in terms of interfacing with the outside world, most particularly in terms of audio, that really fundamentally rule FCPX out of the equation as it stands.

Even for those like me who quite fancy giving it a go.

My work is now largely for independents who have far less exacting technical demands than the major studios and are lighter on their feet with new technology and trimmed-down delivery models. DCP finishing of trailers does change quite a bit of the post landscape and will continue to do so as film dies its sad and increasingly rapid death. All the same, the limitations are still very much there both in terms of what you need to get in and out of the NLE (and currently can't) and what happens on the timeline.

The concurrent discussion about multi-track audio in FCPX definitely touches on this area. Most of the source audio we use is multi-track, where you are not simply cutting one "lane" of multiple tracks but several at once. I'm not at all sure that FCPX is capable of dealing with this to the required level as it stands.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:15:43 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "I'd say Jason is not talking about a movie studio or anything like it to judge from his description:

"a very large media company"

" have high-volume, rapid-turnaround environments with hundreds of editors in locations all over the world"

This sounds much more like a news outlet than an entertainment company and FCPX does fit the news editing model pretty well."


I can certainly see a news outlet strongly considering it, especially one that is not traditional broadcast, and doesn't have tons of footage currently tied to an Isis install. How is the X database working with centralized servers at this point? I haven't been following that recently. Can you currently build a huge metadata organized library full of clips that bazillions of people can access in tandem? Or is that still in the promise realm?

I do agree that X could be super fast as a news cutter.

[Simon Ubsdell] "My point in starting this thread - and with your experience I think you will appreciate more than most what I'm saying - is that there are many, many requirements that trailer editing (and its associated disciplines) impose on the editor in terms of interfacing with the outside world, most particularly in terms of audio, that really fundamentally rule FCPX out of the equation as it stands."

Very true. It will probably be a long while before it can service my niche properly, but I am enjoying watching all you guys use it, and am looking forward to some time to actually play with it. I certainly can't argue with the number of people who are enjoying the interface.


[Simon Ubsdell] "The concurrent discussion about multi-track audio in FCPX definitely touches on this area. Most of the source audio we use is multi-track, where you are not simply cutting one "lane" of multiple tracks but several at once. I'm not at all sure that FCPX is capable of dealing with this to the required level as it stands."

Agreed. I'm regularly working from source files that have 4 to 16 tracks, and I wouldn't even know where to begin.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:33:08 am

[Chris Harlan] " It will probably be a long while before it can service my niche properly, but I am enjoying watching all you guys use it, and am looking forward to some time to actually play with it."

I sense that like me you quite fancy jumping in and having a go, but that the barriers to entry are currently still way too many to even contemplate it.

The other non-negligible factor, which I am sure you would have to factor in, is your clients' reactions to discovering you were working on FCPX - it took the studios an eternity to accept that Legacy FCP was a viable tool and even now there are many technical folk at the majors that I have met who still consider it not fit for purpose.

In fact, I have noticed over here that since the launch of FCPX there has been a definite retrenchment away from FCP generally and back to AVID in the feature film world, as though a lot of people (editors as well as technical heads generally) were seeing this as an opportunity to abandon something to which they were never fully committed in the first place.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 8:48:33 pm

[Shane Ross] "[Simon Ubsdell] "I did hear that Trailer Park were among the very few beta testers - do you know if that's true?"

Yeah, I know they tested...I know they gave a quote. But I don't think they are using it yet.
"


I sat in there for a week on a show back in October, and nobody was talking about it. Now, I never talked to anybody who wasn't on that show. Everything was still FCS, and no plans seemed to be in effect to adjust that fact. Of course, I have no idea what was happening on other floors.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 12, 2012 at 1:32:19 am

[Shane Ross] "[Simon Ubsdell] "I did hear that Trailer Park were among the very few beta testers - do you know if that's true?"

Yeah, I know they tested...I know they gave a quote. But I don't think they are using it yet.
"


I sat in there for a week on a show back in October, and nobody was talking about it. Now, I never talked to anybody who wasn't on that show. Everything was still FCS, and no plans seemed to be in effect to adjust that fact. Of course, I have no idea what was happening on other floors.


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tony west
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 11:13:30 pm

Nice Noam!

Love that wide tree shot.

Images look great : )


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Chris Conlee
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 12, 2012 at 5:50:07 pm

[tony west] "Love that wide tree shot."

+1 on the tree shot; I originally thought it was in a studio. Very nicely composed and shot. Good luck with your film.

Chris


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 9:53:09 pm

ello, what with you being eminently sane, do you want to blab for a bit in a general sense about how you approach this timeline in terms of material organisation and laydown?

I'm vaguely short form too, in me humble way - do you want to give a notion on how you get into the FCPX timeline in anger? am madly curious -

Its not FCP7, you're not whacking from bins into viewer, then reviewing and dragging or stamping into timeline - the three step is collapsed - I'm still a trollish toe dipper with FCPX, but that seriously aside how do you find your approach to the timeline altering?

Do you find yourself constructing the video assembly differently? how are you using projects? do you pop a duplicate off to hold an edit version? are you still looking to throw stuff down the timeline for a play with a gap clip separator?
How much in practise do you hold with the ripple behaviour? general malarky - not looking for super detailed but more where furniture is in the room - do you stick with list with top lozenge for reviewing clips? will you stack a crude edit and refine as fcpx seems to want you to do, do you still try and hone a shot edit back in the event, ((i want a dedicated viewer)) do you use the precision editor much?

Basically I am demanding a pithy communicable precis of altered habits and processes..


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 11:22:45 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Basically I am demanding a pithy communicable precis of altered habits and processes.."

Yikes, that's not a big question at all, is it?!!!

I've only cut one trailer so far on this thing and even that wasn't a start from scratch kind of job. It went much better than I thought it would, apart from a lot of stuff we all know about.

My problem is I've got a geeky attraction to anything new and shiny and I think that's maybe why it feels quite interesting still.

The other factor is that I've been forced to work on Media Composer for the last five projects and anything, anything, anything at all is less irritating. Yup, MC works (though not nearly as solidly, if you drive it hard, as everyone will always tell you, and don't get me started on AMA ... but that's another story.

By contrast, FCPX seems to have all the freedom and flexibility that drew me to FCP Legacy after many years on AVID - only it seems to have more of that freedom and flexibility. I'm not talking about the app in general which is absurdly constricted in terms of how can you do things, but rather in the "feel" of actually cutting on the timeline.

I absolutely hate all that metadata, keyword nonsense that we are meant to be getting so excited about, thought I wouldn't dare voice that aloud around here ... I just did? Oh shucks. It is of no value to me and acts only as a hindrance.

The magnetic timeline however is the ultimate creative scratchpad because of the speed with which you can throw stuff around and discover the shape you want for your material. Again, it's a reaction to the clunkiness of the Media Composer model that I long ago abandoned the source/record model of editing, preferring even in Legacy to mould stuff on the timeline, which now to me feels much more natural and intuitive.

I like slapping stuff into the timeline and moving it around and trimming it and seeing where it will go and shuffling it around, and I love using cut and paste. I don't like prepping my shots in the source monitor unless I have to - it just feels too clunky and methodical. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you that the best editing gets done when you get down and dirty with the material and see what it throws up at you.

And it's this model of editing that FCPX, even more than Legacy, lends itself to very well. The magnetic timeline is just made for this kind of working - it's great just be be able to throw something in there without bothering about where you're patching it and what effect it might have on the rest of the timeline. It's especially brilliant to be able to edit music in secondary storylines - this is a huge plus for me, really huge, and music editing is a very big part of my kind of work.

So there you go. There's stuff I really do like. At the same time there's a whole mound of issues which mean it's still just an amusing toy for now. Gotta have EDL, OMF, broadcast monitoring, deep and extensive timecode display, ganging, and so on and so on.

Put it this way - working on Media Composer, I'm wishing all the time I could be on FCPX instead. In fact, I'm finding I'm getting draw to it each time there's a little "utility" job that needs doing because there are all sorts of little efficiencies that are big time-savers.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Richard Herd
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 11:52:55 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "the "feel" of actually cutting on the timeline"

Yep!


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 12:32:19 am

no absolutely - that's a dandy answer - that you genuinely plop for the timeline in operation is worth broadly noting -

I've ran a rant on bloody mindedly learning Avid, and roped a bona fide avid long form poor sod in to tutor whatnot, and avid themselves are throwing training material like confetti with the promax stuff..
but - i swear - being a pleb who started editing via FCP from a design background, avid is just wrecking my head - I'm flagrantly editor-lite at the best of times relative to some of the hard core practitioners - but in terms of editing reactively relative to messy broader workflow; chaps throwing AE bits to you/you messing in AE and roundtripping type concerns - avid just feels nitrogen heavy - all you're breathing in is extremely specific editing exclusive workflow conception and methodology - although i get that it rules in scripted drama as a cutting tool. After watching examples why. their trim tool is awesome.

But I sort of find it near impossible to see Avid replacing historical FCP as that broadly understood interplay editing component?

And that component is about everywhere these days. Because that actually was FCP. Before They Killed It In Cupertino While Eating Baby Lobsters.

Pause.

Still: three editing system providers are way, way better than two, said, like, Sun Tzu.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 12:54:58 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] " avid just feels nitrogen heavy - all you're breathing in is extremely specific editing exclusive workflow conception and methodology"

Sorry to hear AVID is still giving you grief - you're absolutely that it's a very closed environment compared to FCP and I don't think they've got AMA sorted yet enough to begin to start matching what you could do linking to external files in FCP.

And how about that the title tool is a separate app within the app, or rather two separate apps within the app if you can even begin to think of using the horror that is Marquee - if ever there was an app designed to repel anyone with a feeling for graphics design, that is the one! And you even have to launch a separate app to get a bleeding EDL out of the thing - after all this time. Why the AVID community stands for this sort of nonsense is anybody's guess, but they're generally a very docile sort of crowd who are happy for things to stagnate decade after decade.

But at least they don't eat baby lobsters in Massachusetts.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 1:19:01 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "Sorry to hear AVID is still giving you grief "

fear not bud, I am barely trying. I'm still mostly strapping on a colostomy bag and refusing to move in any direction.

It is hard to see avid though, for the likes of lowly me - avid is just nuts - they just heralded the coming of tabs.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Shane Ross
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 2:44:20 am

FCP, and now FCX have YET to herald any sort of usable trim mode.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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David Powell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 4:40:24 am

I don't get why avid give you such a fuss. I started on Media 100 in the late 90's (in school) then went to final cut 5-7 and then to Avid. The only thing I really miss in FC is the compositing within the NLE, which you can't do in Avid and the automatic pairing of stereo tracks when mixing. Outside of that, I watched a few videos and cut a feature on Avid for a job, without even touching it beforehand. I always stayed on the keyboard in FC, and I find a lot of drag and drop Final Cut users have the hardest time learning Avid.

Oh yea, I miss being able to track forward to close a gap, but I understand why this can't work with Avid trimming, and I'll take the trim tools over what the other NLE's have to offer any day of the week.

I'm not sure why people don't use Avid FX for Titling over Marquee. It is very similar to AE and maybe even a cross between AE and Motion the way FX work on the timeline track. There is absolutely nothing you can't do with text in Boris Red (Avid FX). As I learn it more. I'm finding that using it for compositing is also far greater in terms of flexibility and features then FC (legacy) as well.


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Steve Connor
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:36:56 am

[David Powell] " I always stayed on the keyboard in FC, and I find a lot of drag and drop Final Cut users have the hardest time learning Avid."

You've hit the nail squarely on the head, a lot of FCP editors, like me, are "tactile" editors. I like to touch and sculpt the edit, that's why I don't get on with Avid I somehow feel slightly disconnected from the edit when using it. I understand the power of it in the right hands though.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:54:56 am

[Steve Connor] "You've hit the nail squarely on the head, a lot of FCP editors, like me, are "tactile" editors. I like to touch and sculpt the edit, that's why I don't get on with Avid I somehow feel slightly disconnected from the edit when using it. I understand the power of it in the right hands though."

I'd completely agree with this. Media Composer definitely has a clinical, clunky, disconnected feel when compared to FCP because everything is fundamentally predicated on the old source/record VT model of editing, whereas FCP was always much more like editing on a computer with intuitive things like cut and paste readily available.

OK, so you can actually now drag and drop in MC, and the Smart Tool does emulate the responsiveness of FCP quite a bit, but this is still going against the grain of how MC works, and a lot of AVID editors don't like the Smart Tool at all (though I have to say I found it a very welcome addition).

As you say, which one you prefer editing with is going to be more than a matter of taste - it's down to how much you think the traditional 3-point editing model is the be-all-and-end-all of the job and how much you prefer a smooth intuitive tactile interface that actually lets you set yourself free from the model if that's what you want.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Steve Connor
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:41:17 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "fear not bud, I am barely trying. I'm still mostly strapping on a colostomy bag and refusing to move in any direction.

It is hard to see avid though, for the likes of lowly me - avid is just nuts - they just heralded the coming of tabs.
"


I see you're back on form Aindreas, sometimes it's a joy to read your posts! I imagine you're hoping that PPro will gain more traction in your area than Avid?

I still think you'll eventually "get" FCPX, a lightbulb will flicker on to illuminate the darkness

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 11:00:35 am

[Steve Connor] "I see you're back on form Aindreas, sometimes it's a joy to read your posts! I imagine you're hoping that PPro will gain more traction in your area than Avid?

I still think you'll eventually "get" FCPX, a lightbulb will flicker on to illuminate the darkness"


I think you're right - he's going to have his Damascene moment very shortly, and then heaven help us!!!!

Aindreas the convert is going to infinitely more passionate than Aindreas the unbeliever - and I'm not sure the interweb will be able to handle it.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Chris Conlee
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 12, 2012 at 6:10:47 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I've ran a rant on bloody mindedly learning Avid, and roped a bona fide avid long form poor sod in to tutor whatnot, and avid themselves are throwing training material like confetti with the promax stuff..
but - i swear - being a pleb who started editing via FCP from a design background, avid is just wrecking my head - I'm flagrantly editor-lite at the best of times relative to some of the hard core practitioners - but in terms of editing reactively relative to messy broader workflow; chaps throwing AE bits to you/you messing in AE and roundtripping type concerns - avid just feels nitrogen heavy - all you're breathing in is extremely specific editing exclusive workflow conception and methodology - although i get that it rules in scripted drama as a cutting tool. After watching examples why. their trim tool is awesome.
"


If you ever publish your memoirs, please let me know. The twist of phrase is an Aindreas trait that I'm learning and loving as I troll about on this forum. Always good for a smile; or at least a head scratch. Me being a longform guy, I'd say give Avid another go. I personally can't imagine cutting on anything else.

Chris


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Steve Connor
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:46:07 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "I absolutely hate all that metadata, keyword nonsense that we are meant to be getting so excited about, thought I wouldn't dare voice that aloud around here ... I just did? Oh shucks. It is of no value to me and acts only as a hindrance."

I don't hate it, but to be honest I'm not using it as much as I imagined I would, it's just so damn fast to get through your source footage that I don't feel I need to spend the time tagging. I haven't even used it on the feature I'm cutting at the moment


[Simon Ubsdell] "The magnetic timeline however is the ultimate creative scratchpad because of the speed with which you can throw stuff around and discover the shape you want for your material. Again, it's a reaction to the clunkiness of the Media Composer model that I long ago abandoned the source/record model of editing, preferring even in Legacy to mould stuff on the timeline, which now to me feels much more natural and intuitive.

I like slapping stuff into the timeline and moving it around and trimming it and seeing where it will go and shuffling it around, and I love using cut and paste. I don't like prepping my shots in the source monitor unless I have to - it just feels too clunky and methodical. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you that the best editing gets done when you get down and dirty with the material and see what it throws up at you.

And it's this model of editing that FCPX, even more than Legacy, lends itself to very well. The magnetic timeline is just made for this kind of working - it's great just be be able to throw something in there without bothering about where you're patching it and what effect it might have on the rest of the timeline. It's especially brilliant to be able to edit music in secondary storylines - this is a huge plus for me, really huge, and music editing is a very big part of my kind of work."


That precisely describes how I feel about working in FCPX, I think the assumption from many is that the magnetic timeline actually stops you from working like this, but as you soon find out it doesn't.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 6:08:04 pm

Nice answer Simon - concur 100%! But there are times I wish I didn't have full-blown "geeky attraction disease"...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Andy Neil
Re: Is anyone using FCPX for movie trailers yet?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 9:44:20 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Its not FCP7, you're not whacking from bins into viewer, then reviewing and dragging or stamping into timeline - the three step is collapsed - I'm still a trollish toe dipper with FCPX, but that seriously aside how do you find your approach to the timeline altering?"

I thought I would answer this too although I don't know if it's much different than Simon's. On Avid and FCP7, I always edited from the viewer. Meaning I chose my shots and in/out carefully there, and then assembled in the timeline. Timeline editing was minimal (aside from audio). FCPX makes editing in the viewer difficult and frustrating and was the single biggest adjustment I had to make. That said, editing in the timeline feels very natural and quick. If they develop those aspects more (two-up display for keyboard trimming, lasso multiple edit points for synchronized trimming), it'll feel even more second-nature.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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