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I hate it!

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Alex Hawkins
I hate it!
on Feb 10, 2012 at 5:38:28 am

Hi all,

I just finished my first (only and last) job in FCPX. I hated it.

The whole magnetic timeline thing to me is so counterintuitive that I just can't see the worth of it. Why I would bother to continue with it I don't know.

I'm sure there are things that I don't know about/haven't learned yet that I might think are pretty cool, but as far as just basic editing functionality, I hated it. Besides which it just felt clunky and slow. (Surely I must be missing something)

If I am editing merrily along on PPro can someone please give me a really good reason as to why I should switch to FCPX, honestly, please. I mean it.

And yes at the moment I am a naysayer.

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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Lance Bachelder
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 10, 2012 at 5:58:55 am

If you're happy with PPro and not having any crashes there's no reason to switch at all. Whatever tool helps you get the job done...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Mark Morache
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 10, 2012 at 6:04:06 am

Was there anything that you liked about it? Anything positive?

I found that it took me about three times as long to edit a project my first time out, and it's progressively gotten faster and faster.

There are things that are faster from the get-go. Dealing with various formats without the need to transcode. The keyword filtering. The skimmer and the event browser.

The other things, like manipulating things in the timeline, take a bit longer to get used to.

I too was screaming (literally screaming, out loud) every time I got bitten by the new paradigm. After doing a few projects, I started understanding the way it was designed, and things started snapping into place, and I got energized.

I've cut a few things with people watching over my shoulder, and it's very cool to see them get excited and energized by what I'm doing.

Don't sell it short yet. If you have the time to try a few more projects, I expect it will get better.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there are some very capable editors for whom it will just never click.

As for me, I'm not going back.

---------
FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can't stop thinking about her.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
http://fcpx.wordpress.com


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Alex Hawkins
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 10, 2012 at 11:46:09 pm

Thanks for your responses.

I'd have to say overall there wasn't a whole lot of positiveness gleaned from my experience. And I was only editing a grabfest interspersed with montages and overlay.

My whole thing was just that the timeline did things I didn't want it to do and I couldn't get it to stop. Is that really something you get used to?

As you say Mark, I too was literally screaming and banging the desk during my session. This is interesting to me because you obviously persevered and have now seen the light, as it were. Mmmm maybe I should do the same but I keep getting shivers down my spine when I think about it.

But what is the real change of thinking you have to undergo to figure out how and why it was designed. The audio I found annoying with funny looking waveforms and didgy small green tracks.

At the moment I don't really get the skimmer. For me I just couldn't 'feel' it. Maybe that's something that comes with time?

Interestingly though I just found it not very responsive. I kept getting the beachball and Im only editing SD XDCam. 4 discs worth. Approx 2 1/2 hours worth of footage. As time went on it became quite sluggish.

The timeline thing is the biggie though. To me a timeline is an open canvas where you 'paint'. It should not be restrictive in any way at all. You decide where, when and how things go on it. Now I know that people will say, well of course you can still do that, but it seems to me that you have to jump through too many hoops to get what you want.

Anyway it was an instructive experience and I am intrigued by guys here whose initial experience was similar to mine and have pushed on and now are loving it.

Mmmm we shall see.

Cheers,

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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Mark Morache
When did you turn the corner on FCPX?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:21:35 am

[Alex Hawkins] "screaming and banging the desk during my session"

Yeah, it was frustrating. I'm not sure when I turned the corner, but it makes sense to me now, and I can focus on my decisions and not the interface.

I think just making sure you understand the tools, and muscling through the edits. Practice using the Q-W and E tools. Get used to lifting clips from the timeline and overwriting back to the timeline. (I frequently connect clips, then use opt-cmd-down to overwrite them into the primary storyline.) Practice making secondary storylines, compounding clips and breaking them apart. Get used to opening clips in timeline mode, to mis multiple channels of a single clip. And above all, get used to expanding the audio of clips, and even the entire timeline. Map a keystroke for "expand" and "collapse" all clips so you can see and hide all of your audio split edits. Learn how to avoid breaking apart the audio from the video when you don't need to. Get used to the speed tool. Learn how to add and adjust gaps to leave holes and adjust the size of those holes, then fill them with video.

Anyone else have that "turn the corner" experience?

If you didn't get around the corner, start a new thread.

I was editing in 7 the other day. It was a project I needed to be able to share with other editors, and I didn't want to do that to them. You know what I mean.

I was surprised how much I was missing X. I missed the snap of the skimmer. I missed the audition function when I wanted to audition some different clips of music. I missed the quick searching in the eb (event browser). I also starting to get annoyed at the track patching in 7.

[Alex Hawkins] "audio I found annoying with funny looking waveforms and didgy small green tracks"

You can expand the audio tracks. You can also use roles to expand and minimize audio tracks you aren't working on. And I absolutely love the waveforms that reflect the output level of the clips. I use that to adjust my audio levels and get them close to where they need to be.

[Alex Hawkins] " I just found it not very responsive."

It can be sluggish if there's background analysis and other tasks going on. Transcoding is a core hog, and should be avoided at all costs. Often it's worth leaving background rendering off if you don't need it. There are also some things that can cause serious project bloat that should be avoided, like creating long compound clips, and editing them into many small bits. 2 1/2 hours of footage shouldn't be a problem.


[Alex Hawkins] "It should not be restrictive in any way at all. "

I don't consider it restrictive. I think of it like gravity. We're used to gravity. You put something somewhere and it generally stays there. Move away from Earth's gravitational field, and things seriously change. Things may not stay where you left them, but to be weightless is fairly awesome, and you need to use the magnetic nature of the timeline and the ability to connect things to each other to get around the lack of gravity.

And frankly, without the gravity, there also isn't alot of friction, so things move around quite quickly and freely.

I say watch some tutorials, practice with the tools, try some different strategies for navagating the new paradigm, and don't let it beat you. It's kind of like riding a bicycle. After falling and falling and falling, you eventually learn to balance and once you learn to ride, who wants to go back to walking?

---------
FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can't stop thinking about her.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
http://fcpx.wordpress.com


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Steve Connor
Re: When did you turn the corner on FCPX?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:31:03 am

[Mark Morache] "[Alex Hawkins] "It should not be restrictive in any way at all. "

I don't consider it restrictive. I think of it like gravity. We're used to gravity. You put something somewhere and it generally stays there."


I agree, when you are used to it it doesn't restrict you at all. FCPX is not something you can judge easily based on a relatively small amount of time with it. You'll notice the word "joy" bandied around on here by people who are using it, it's not often a NLE will make you use that word!

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: When did you turn the corner on FCPX?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:45:15 am

Great post!

[Mark Morache] "(I frequently connect clips, then use opt-cmd-down to overwrite them into the primary storyline.)"

I'm interested to see that someone with your experience is doing this too - I find it a really good way of working that definitely gets the best out of the magnetic timeline. A clip stays floating and connected, almost in a transitional state, until you decide it definitely belongs as part of the spine of the edit and then you can upgrade it to the primary.

I think generally the old 3-point editing paradigm is starting to look increasingly cumbersome and unnecessary for a lot of work. Doing a lot more editing in the timeline is a much quicker (and I think better) way of working and FCPX really moves this idea forward.

Conversely I can't seem to get friendly with fine-tuning edit points in the browser. Something about the interface just doesn't "feel" right. I think the major factors is not having a long linear representation of the clip which we've always had before - a visual aid which for me was far more "tactile" and intuitive. The "filmstrip" mode seems to mean a lot more constant scrolling and zooming in and out, at least for me - too many keystrokes or mouse clicks. And that's despite the convenience of the skimmer.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Mark Morache
Re: When did you turn the corner on FCPX?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 11:12:36 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "A clip stays floating and connected, almost in a transitional state, until you decide it definitely belongs as part of the spine"

I actually don't like secondary storylines as much because I can't use the keyboard to skim and set in/out points on secondary timelines. I hope that Apple can find a way to implement this. Seems like if I have a secondary storyline selected that hitting I/O and D would affect the secondary and not the primary.

Meanwhile I connect a clip over the part of the timeline I want covered, overwrite the primary and create that L cut with the audio, and start editing and arranging the clips in the crook of the L cut. It works for me.

[Simon Ubsdell] "Conversely I can't seem to get friendly with fine-tuning edit points in the browser."

And it's easier to edit with 100 separate clips in a bin? This is where the tagging and keywording comes in handy. A little bit of sorting makes things much easier to work with.

I'd love to see a few small things implemented that would make this even more robust:

>Give me the ability to hide used footage in the browser.
>Give me keyboard shortcuts for different zoom views in the browser. I want to be able to snap to 10 sec and 5 sec views with a mouse click.
>Remember my bin views. I'm happy with a single icon for still files. 5s and 10s for my tape footage. 2s for file tape clips. 30s for music clips. Etc.
>I also want to see a way to skim through a browser clip without zig zagging back and forth over long clips.

---------
FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can't stop thinking about her.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
http://fcpx.wordpress.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: When did you turn the corner on FCPX?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 12:35:35 pm

[Mark Morache] "I actually don't like secondary storylines as much because I can't use the keyboard to skim and set in/out points on secondary timelines. I hope that Apple can find a way to implement this. Seems like if I have a secondary storyline selected that hitting I/O and D would affect the secondary and not the primary."

Totally agree - secondaries could be so much more useful if you could edit into them properly as you can with the primary. Also I would really, really like them to be able to behave more like compound clips so that you could add global transforms, effects, CC etc. This surely can't be that hard to implement and would be a huge step forward.

[Mark Morache] "And it's easier to edit with 100 separate clips in a bin?"

My point wasn't about organizing but rather about the physical act of scrubbing around to find edit points - somehow it just doesn't feel as comfortable with the filmstrip model as with as conventional one where you could see the clip as one long unbroken line from beginning to end.

The space constraints of the browser mean that when you shrink the view down to see the whole of a clip, the length of the clip is represented very small.

Often I will know that the bit I want (that I haven't already logged for whatever reason) is pretty much exactly at the 80 minute mark ina 90 mminute clip. That's a lot easier to find in a conventional NLE - at least for me.

Maybe it's something that will come to feel natural in time but whereas the rest of it is starting to feel really good this particular part isn't doing it for me just yet.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: When did you turn the corner on FCPX?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 12:39:05 pm

[Mark Morache] "I actually don't like secondary storylines as much because I can't use the keyboard to skim and set in/out points on secondary timelines. I hope that Apple can find a way to implement this. Seems like if I have a secondary storyline selected that hitting I/O and D would affect the secondary and not the primary."

Totally agree - secondaries could be so much more useful if you could edit into them properly as you can with the primary. Also I would really, really like them to be able to behave more like compound clips so that you could add global transforms, effects, CC etc. This surely can't be that hard to implement and would be a huge step forward.

[Mark Morache] "And it's easier to edit with 100 separate clips in a bin?"

My point wasn't about organizing but rather about the physical act of scrubbing around to find edit points - somehow it just doesn't feel as comfortable with the filmstrip model as with as conventional one where you could see the clip as one long unbroken line from beginning to end. The space constraints of the browser mean that when you shrink the view down to see the whole of a clip, the length of the clip is represented very small. Often I will know that the bit I want (that I haven't already logged for whatever reason) is pretty much exactly at the



[Mark Morache] "I'd love to see a few small things implemented that would make this even more robust:

>Give me the ability to hide used footage in the browser.
>Give me keyboard shortcuts for different zoom views in the browser. I want to be able to snap to 10 sec and 5 sec views with a mouse click.
>Remember my bin views. I'm happy with a single icon for still files. 5s and 10s for my tape footage. 2s for file tape clips. 30s for music clips. Etc.
>I also want to see a way to skim through a browser clip without zig zagging back and forth over long clips."


For some reason my eyes missed this part of your post, and actually yes all of these things are what I am looking for to make this aspect from usable - and faster. All really good ideas. I've always hated zooming in and out of stuff unnecessarily and the "broken filmstrip" mode really does aggravate this.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Alex Hawkins
Re: When did you turn the corner on FCPX?
on Feb 11, 2012 at 9:56:36 pm

Thanks guys for your responses. Very informative.

You've certainly given me food for thought and Mark I love your signature tagline but it would sure be nice to eventually not get beaten up...

Many Thanks.

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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adam dewhirst
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 12, 2012 at 11:42:40 pm

"The timeline thing is the biggie though. To me a timeline is an open canvas where you 'paint'. It should not be restrictive in any way at all. You decide where, when and how things go on it."

great description. this really resonates with how i feel about fcpx.


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Steve Connor
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 12, 2012 at 11:47:07 pm

When you know how to use it the timeline in FCPX is not restrictive, you can "paint" all you want with it.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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adam dewhirst
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 13, 2012 at 12:27:02 am

i know there is some truth in what you are saying and aim to make an effort to learn fcpx in more detail as i don't really have a choice. when my macbook pro (2006) dies (soon) i'll have to switch to the imac/fcpx from fcp 6. still, having done quite a few tutorials on fcpx already, for me, it is nowhere near as intuitive as fcpx, which is what is most important to me.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 13, 2012 at 12:42:47 am

[adam dewhirst] "when my macbook pro (2006) dies (soon) i'll have to switch to the imac/fcpx from fcp 6. "

Why?

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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adam dewhirst
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 13, 2012 at 1:16:15 am

because the imac with fcpx has a later operating system that doesn't support fcp 6. i heard their was a workaround in terms of installing the old os on a separate part of the harddrive but also read that that isn't very good for the computer to do that.


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Steve Connor
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 10, 2012 at 7:26:26 am

I feel the same way when I have to use Avid, to me it feels counter intuitive as well, but thats only because I haven't used it for a while and I need to get used to the way it works.

If you're happy with PPro then there's no need to change

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Jack James
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 10, 2012 at 9:12:50 am

Can anyone comment as to whether the recent updates have made much of an improvement?
I tried FCPX at launch and shortly thereafter got a refund on it. I am still using FCP7, but I'm certain that won't last for much longer. So it means either I'll have to suck it up and go with FCPX or invest some serious time with Premiere.

Synaesthesia 1.0 production data tracking and Red footage logging for Mac now available
http://synaesthesia.surrealroad.com


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Paul Jay
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 10, 2012 at 9:47:42 am

The FCPX multicam/audio sync feature is freakin fantastic.
And i hated FCPX :P


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Lance Bachelder
Re: I hate it!
on Feb 10, 2012 at 6:16:20 pm

Download the 30 day trial and see if you like it any better than at launch - there have been many improvements both in features and bug fixes - still needs some work for sure but much better than original launch version.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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