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FCP X internationally

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Oliver Peters
FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 3:42:09 pm

I'm curious how this discussion shakes out internationally. Often posters (myself included) tend to take a US-centric view and interpret it as an Avid vs. FCP battle, given the strong market share Avid has in some corners. I've seen statements by other editors around the globe about how Avid is not at all dominant in Europe or India for example. Yet, I know from editors in Germany and the Netherlands that Avid is certainly widely used.

I also remember the BBC as being the poster child for FCP and then later Premiere. Yet, in my direct discussions with their engineering staff, I know it varies by department and Avid, Adobe, Apple and Quantel are all represented.

So the point is whether the perception of FCP X's future is different in Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia or South America than it seems to be in a lot of our threads?

Cheers,
Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tapio Haaja
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 4:13:47 pm

Here in Finland my intuition is that about 80% of broadcast professionals edit with FCP7 and 20% with Avid. At the moment I haven't yet heard any big facilities moving to any direction. It seems everyone is still doing waiting game and watching how FCPX evolves and what Adobe brings with CS6. Of course Avid people will stay with Avid but it seems that for FCP7 people Avid is the last choice at the moment... Although personally I have to say I was really impressed how well MC6 works with AJA Kona cards after terrible performance and bugs in Premiere. But I guess FCPX's perception is more or less same here in Finland than in US.

Best
Tapio Haaja

On-Air Promotion Producer
http://avseikkailuja.blogspot.com/


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 4:36:07 pm

Avid wasn't dominant in Russia in the nineties, mostly because of being Mac. Linear suits though expensive fulfilled the demand well. Big film studios like Mosfilm and Gorky went Lightworks. Fast, DPS and d/Vision were around too. Adobe Premiere, cursed by everybody was still widely used because it came bundled with Targa and other I/O hardware. When FCP came out it captured extremes of the market — people who wanted to lay out masters to Digibeta and HDCAM tapes at the high end and people who wanted to cut on a laptop at the low end. When enough editors got familiar with FCP it became omnipresent.

Reaction to FCP is mixed and very similar to what you can see here on the COW. Those who besides FCP cut in Premier, MC or Vegas point that most innovative features of FCPX is something they had in their NLE's for a considerable while. Those who are strict FCP like me are split along one-man-band/conveyor-belt-hand line. It is safe bet that for facilities here Apple is dead. How many facilities are left around in a couple of years is another story.


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Rafael Amador
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 5:12:34 pm

I think AVID is widely used in the places where was already used before the "Digital revolution".
I can talk about Spain. In the late 90's only few TV stations and a just bunch of private production companies were using AVID while many were using more affordable systems like Quantel, etc. With the boom of DV, most people started using PP, also because Macs were very little spread, but in the last 5/6 years the shift to Macs/FC has been massive.
No idea of the perception of FCPX over there, but being many just arrived to FC and with the actual economic situation I don't think many people is thinking to change to nothing.

Now I live in Southeast Asia, where in the early 2000s was basically no video industry. Most people started with PP, because was the only option. In 2005 I bought my G5 in Singapore because was the only place with resellers and service, however, with the boom of the iPod, Apple started to set his network in the area (now there Apple Stores in most of the countries in the area) and in the last four years has also been a big migration to FC (I have to point out that many, many, on Hackintosh) although many people keeps working with PP and there is also a lot of Edius users.
Around here seems that people haven't heard yet about FCPX but I think when many FC users will be in the need to refresh their NLE, they will go back to PP.
Although may seems not much important, one fact that may prevent some people to go FCPX is the dependence of Internet for installing and updating. There are many areas in the world where Internet (when available) is not reliable enough and depending on a connexion is you risk to be unable to finish your job.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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James Mortner
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 7:03:28 pm

Here in the UK, traditional offline edit shops run both FCP7 and Avid. I think many will switch to an Avid only environment with some PP.

FCPX is a tough sell for "preditors" as they cant easily interoperate with existing sound/online suites they need.
Which is a shame, FCPX would be a great tool for them to use.


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Neil Patience
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 8:02:30 pm

I have been a freelance editor in London UK for getting on for 20 years.
The majority of my work is for broadcast. I either work for the broadcasters directly such as ITV and BBC, other large media companies such as IMG or post facilities in and around London providing programming for broadcast in the UK and to some extent in the US. (Discovery, History, Nat Geo channels)
Probably 75% of my work is finishing the rest is offline. Usually the areas I work in are things like game shows and light entertainment which tend to be multi-cam studio shoots, comedy shows, documentaries and fast turnaround sports highlights.
So in my specific area Avid is by far the most used NLE with FCP probably being about a 30% share (at a guess).
ITV is all Avid for programme making. BBC TV Centre is/was Avid and FCP7 except Sport which was all Avid - not sure whats happening in Salford.
Adobe is currently not really visible. FCPX, so far, has been roundly ignored so it will be interesting and easy to see if that changes.
As others have mentioned at the moment companies seem to be broadly sticking with what they have. I know 2 examples of fairly large successful facilities who were mainly FCP7 at the outset adding Avid facilities and now offer both. (Air Post and Timeline TV) I have not seen anyone switch totally from Apple to Avid.
While FCP7 may not have dominated the broadcast market it certainly made huge gains in other areas. Whenever I have worked for smaller indie companies more often than not FCP7 is the tool of choice.
These are probably the areas that Adobe and FCPX will initially make gains. If there is enough of a groundswell towards Adobe and/or FCPX here then the bigger facilities will be forced to support it I would imagine.
I tend to use FCP7 for my own work but since MC6 now works with my Kona card that may change.
I personally cant get on with FCPX, it has some great features but the overall GUI, paradigm, concept and timeline don't work for me. But that’s just me.

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


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James Mortner
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 8:09:48 pm

[Neil Patience] "ITV is all Avid for programme making."

They use some FCP for on-lining their own promos, not so ?

[Neil Patience] " If there is enough of a groundswell towards Adobe and/or FCPX here then the bigger facilities will be forced to support it I would imagine."

Its really hard to see that right now, there's so little traction here. Maybe one day.

[Neil Patience] "I personally cant get on with FCPX, it has some great features but the overall GUI, paradigm, concept and timeline don't work for me. But that’s just me."

Agreed ! I want it to work but I feel so cut-off from everyone else if i dare to use it ! No EDL, XML etc


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Neil Patience
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 8:42:31 pm

[James Mortner] "[Neil Patience] "ITV is all Avid for programme making."

They use some FCP for on-lining their own promos, not so ?"


Yes indeed they do - I have worked in them many times, but only for network promos.
(And there lies a very interesting tale about Apples attitude to "Pros" going back to 2004/5 but its for another post.)

All programme making suites are Avid.

[James Mortner] "
[Neil Patience] " If there is enough of a groundswell towards Adobe and/or FCPX here then the bigger facilities will be forced to support it I would imagine."

Its really hard to see that right now, there's so little traction here. Maybe one day."


Totally true, there is no traction at all that I have seen - time will tell I guess.

[James Mortner] "Agreed ! I want it to work but I feel so cut-off from everyone else if i dare to use it ! No EDL, XML etc"

To be fair I think it depends on the work you do. I have a friend who is a photographer but he edits his own video and he loves FCPX. But he does not ever have to do anything that involves anyone else.
It's horses for courses though - what works or doesnt for you and I isnt everyones experience.

The 7toX tool recently released by Intelligent Assistance allows you to send FCP7 projects to FCPX - it does not work in PAL yet but I believe there is an upcoming release that will.
I also saw a X to Protools tool.

I think neither are yet perfect but its a start and will develop and improve so collaborative tools are starting to appear.

I only really use EDLs for working out returns for music and archive these days, maybe for grading once in a while depending on whats going where. You would think its such a simple thing to do, and still useful, someone will develop that.

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


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James Mortner
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 9:05:48 pm

[Neil Patience] "I think neither are yet perfect but its a start and will develop and improve so collaborative tools are starting to appear."

There's definitely huge scope to shake up everything in the post world, again its hard to get people/engineers/bosses to buy into a new suite that needs a lot of caveats and plugins that dont have the "marketing" sparkle of red giant, magic bullet etc.

Also, if 7tox projects dont import perfectly ( all keyframes, speed ramps, titles ) then its kind-of worse than useless. The time it takes to rebuild is outweighs any FCPX advantage for me anyway.



[Neil Patience] "But he does not ever have to do anything that involves anyone else."

Exactly, that seems to be the largest divide here. Which makes me sad as FCP7 was such a flexible tool to unite everyone . Sigh


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Michael Gissing
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 10:01:41 pm

In Australian broadcast work, FCP had become more popular than AVID. Hard to give an accurate split but FCP was at least 70% in my experience. Features and hi end commercials tended to have more AVID - perhaps an even split. Premiere Pro was not common but AE is.

With FCPX editors have mostly sat on what they had. AVID editors have embraced MC6 with many upgrading unlike FCP users. I have not had a single enquiry about FCPX workflows in my facility which does grade, online & sound post for broadcast. Feedback from local and interstate editors is mixed. Many are contemplating a return to AVID and some have already jumped to Adobe as they were already using AE and other Adobe software in their workflows.

People are playing with FCPX but the overwhelming response has been WTF Apple?


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Eduardo Serrano
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 5, 2012 at 11:17:54 pm

I remember this question was raised in one of the last "that post show" podcasts. I even posted on Steve Cohen blog about it. They asked where were those 800.000 copies of FCP that apple liked to brag about.
Well, here in Brazil, at least in my area, one has to look very hard to find anyone working with Avid. To be fair, the main network, works with avid but most of everyone one else doesn't. So, this is a FCP land. Brazil has a very strong and stabilshed TV culture, and its governement is investing a lot of cash in the cinema industry, through tax breaks etc. (just to point out that this is a country that recently outgrown GB in GDP, and it has 190 million habitants).
And because Steve asked me before, most of these copies are legal. At least, if it is a proper production company, they will hold legal copies. Maybe that's not the case for freelancers tho'

About FCPX, I believe everyone is still wating to decide what to do. One thing is certain, it's very difficult to argue against 300 bucls.

Myself, i was raised on FCP but educated in England on Avid. I fell in love with it, and for narratives, there's nothing like it. Dammm, that trim tool is so sexy!

Now, let me go back to the carnival :-)


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James Mortner
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 6, 2012 at 1:23:28 am

[Eduardo Serrano] "Now, let me go back to the carnival :-)"

Aaaand Ill get back to my sub-zero english winter ...


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Andrew Rendell
Re: FCP X internationally
on Feb 9, 2012 at 10:38:05 am

I'm in London, UK (I actually work in other parts of the UK from time to time, but basically London). TBH my experience of kit exactly matches Neil Patience's (although I do more "cutting" than finishing these days).

I've been using both Avid and FCP7 for the BBC, mainly Avid with the odd bit of FCP7 for ITV, Channel 4 and the rest. No one's asked me for anything else yet.

[If you're the same Neil Patience that worked at Arena Digital back in the '90s, I'm the chap who replaced you when you left... I went freelance in 2002]


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