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7toX- this sucker really works well!

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Don Scioli
7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 10:13:03 pm

to Phil Hodgetts-You are a genius and Godsend. You just cured one of my biggest beefs with FCPx and made the use of this app much more favorable to me.

Now I can "reverse engineer" the timeline elements to get a real understanding of working with FCPX and this makes the transition easier. I had been bad mouthing FCPX for sometime, though I like parts of it and this really makes we want to use it more.
Nice job


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 10:17:53 pm

It's so funny, I literally just signed in to write a very similar post as I've been messing around with this a bit today.

Kudos, Intelligent Assistance. Nice work.

This, and being able to actually see the work on a video monitor is great!

Jeremy


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Bret Williams
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 10:27:12 pm

Didn't work for squat for me. Screwed up everything once it finally imported. Some 51 XMLs later. 3 pngs were the culprit for some reason. I guess my sequence was too complicated for it. It strewed stuff everywhere and I could hear but not see, although the thumbnails for some of it were there. Can't say it would be of any use with all the data that doesn't crossover anyway. titles? colors? alpha mattes? audio pans were off too. And I think it had a problem with my 720p60 video being in a 720p30 sequence. Phillip said they already have an updated version sent in to Apple to address some issues, so hopefully it'll work better in a few days for me.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 10:52:40 pm

[Bret Williams] "3 pngs were the culprit for some reason. I guess my sequence was too complicated for it. "

For the three PNGs?

[Bret Williams] "It strewed stuff everywhere and I could hear but not see, although the thumbnails for some of it were there"

What do you mean it strewed stuff everywhere exactly? It's hard to strew stuff anywhere in FCPX. if you mean that there's no bins within bins, then yes. It might appeared strewn, but it's more like all your bins are now at root level. When viewing the clips in the Event in list mode, you can see the keywords to where they were assigned. Those used to be bins.

[Bret Williams] " and I could hear but not see, although the thumbnails for some of it were there."

I find that it takes a minute for everything to get built (it also copies the media in to the Event, I wish there was a reference link option).


[Bret Williams] " titles? colors? alpha mattes? audio pans were off too."

This is not pointed at you, but this is exactly why Apple said it couldn't be done with perfect fidelity. As with going to any other program or NLE, not everything is going to translate perfectly, even within the same suite of apps from the same company.


Jeremy


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Bret Williams
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 4, 2012 at 2:04:15 am

I only exported a sequence, not the whole project. It created a timeline where the audio no longer synced up, and the video never showed in the canvas. It was hard to tell since there wasn't much visual, but it looked like 10min was strewn over a couple hours. Like it didn't actually edit the clips but used the whole thing. I used 4 tracks of music. Each cut up so it would fit and hit at certain points. The cuts were gone, and the entire track of music was there, and just kept playing after the VO was long done. When it was done the next cut began in sync with the VO again. Repeat. Stuff like that. Kinda like pasting 24p into 60p sequence. There's all sorts of gaps and any sense of sync is out the window. AND I actually was using 60p in a 30p sequence, so that may be the culprit, but it's not an excuse. People mix and match frame rates in FCP all the time. They shouldn't of course, but you'd hope using 7tox would make it possible. My 60p footage was actually 30p frame doubled by the kipro, so I wanted every other frame dropped. I don't think it liked my nested sequences either. Lots of layers too, but it seemed to arbitrarily choose which ones to show.

Anyway, yes,except for the strewing about, these are problems with all conversions. But, just like going from FCP to PPro, unless it's a cuts and dissolves thing, it's fairly useless. And if your sequences are that simple, they be better off getting updated old school by just editing to the raw QT master itself I think. My stuff is corporate, with tons of sfx, music, VO and nat. Usually 10 or more video layers too. This will probably never port anything useable for me.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 4, 2012 at 2:09:04 am

[Bret Williams] "This will probably never port anything useable for me."

I would use the support email over at Intelligent Assitance, This is the advantage of being able to work with a small third party company to get things fixed and fixed soon.

This is a good read: http://assistedediting.intelligentassistance.com/7toX/about.html

info at AssistedEditing dot com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 10:43:39 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "and being able to actually see the work on a video monitor is great!
"


I think you and other AJA users are luckier than than most Jeremy, because it seems AJA may be the only one of the big three I/O manufacturers who have video monitoring in X working well so far. The limited number of devices the drivers do work on is a concern for some, and it would be interesting to know why that is, as the trend until this point in time has almost, if not always, been one release of drivers that works for all devices.

Meanwhile, BMD released drivers for FCPX 10.0.3 on Feb. 1, but if you go to the BMD Cow Forum, you'll see that there are several issues and questions from users who require troubleshooting, but so far no answers from BMD or any users.

And, Matrox has not delivered drivers for FCPX 10.0.3 at all, yet. Not sure why, but hopefully they will provide their drivers sooner rather than later.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Steve Connor
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 11:16:05 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "The limited number of devices the drivers do work on is a concern for some, and it would be interesting to know why that is, as the trend until this point in time has almost, if not always, been one release of drivers that works for all devices.


These are entirely new drivers written to the new CoreMediaIO services, it's going to take some time to get them right.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 11:16:50 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "I think you and other AJA users are luckier than than most Jeremy, because it seems AJA may be the only one of the big three I/O manufacturers who have video monitoring in X working well so far."

It's labeled as a Beta by both Apple and AJA and it feels like it. There's some delay and hesitation, you have to route audio out through the sys prefs, and you can't control the Kona through FCPX, yet. It's much better than the quasi extended desktop that was needed before 10.0.3 It's obvious that there's some work left to be done on Apple's part, and then the work will start on AJA's part.

After watching all of my FCPX test footage on a computer monitor all this time, it's amazing to see it back on the proper monitor. I truly missed video out in FCPX. I can now really start to evaluate what's going on.

I still use a broadcast monitor in FCP7 (so I do watch footage on a broadcast monitor, every day) where I do all of my paying work, I am just talking about my FCPX evaluation period.

I still can't think I can use FCPX for everything yet, but for smaller paying gigs, this is starting to become a bit more of a reality for us.

[David Roth Weiss] "The limited number of devices the drivers do work on is a concern for some, and it would be interesting to know why that is, as the trend until this point in time has almost, if not always, been one release of drivers that works for all devices.
"


Yeah, it's not perfect. I think the io drivers follow the Kona drivers. AJA officially announced support for ioHD and ioExpress coming soon. The rest of the Kona's plus the ioXT work (save the LHe, which it doesn't sound like LHe will be supported in FCPX at all). That's a pretty decent initial beta release. I don't know what's going on with Decklink or Matrox. I don't have any of their products, unfortunately.

Jeremy


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Bill Davis
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 10:20:21 pm

Good to hear.

Has anyone had success the other direction with Phil's X to 7 app?

I've got a project that needs to ship out to California that I did in X and the clients want to do additional editing there in 7.

I was able to break up the projects compound clips as required, but while the resulting file presents the "Export XML" choice, the resulting data file appears to be empty.

I'm confident this will sort out, but they'd like to work this weekend so I'm hoping there's something simple and stupid I'm doing wrong.

TIA.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 10:24:22 pm

there seem to be variable results?

http://www.definitionmagazine.com/journal/2012/2/2/review-apple-fcp-x-1003....

his first tasks are extreme, the last, very much less so - but the fact that QA on a continuing critical aspect of a product called FCP was randomly left to third parties six months later who didn't know via signals if apple actually wanted to do it - and then to have apple advertise it on the update, when it appears to fail to this degree - seems beyond weird.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Michael Gissing
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 11:14:03 pm

I was saying months ago about the fragility of having third party developers trying to keep up with beta software developments. The original Automatic Duck OMF export is already broken. 7toX still obviously need a whole lot of updating in the next few weeks.

It is a bit like a train with sloppy linkages. The engine is new and being worked on during the journey. The driver is learning and a bit erratic. The first few carriages have the third party developers who are getting a lot of jostling. Meanwhile at the back of the train are the passengers - us. We get the most jostling as the third party developers try to fix the sloppy carriage linkages. They are brave perhaps foolish souls who might be better pulling the pin and letting the engine erratically steam off.

I can see why Wes Plate jumped off the train early.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 4, 2012 at 12:14:35 am

[Michael Gissing] "It is a bit like a train with sloppy linkages."

I'm a troll for the ages really, all I want to do is foster communally kicking apple to see what it gets us - BUT some elements here are insurmountable. I keep getting left at the timeline - even the verticality of the clips at zoom levels. the legibility of the FCPX timeline - the way the clip lozenges bunch into pixel heavy narrow stilts at median ranges - the range at which I can usefully interact with the media is crazy, the options for clip and audio waveform balance is so bad - I keep clicking the lightswitch and making nuts manual adjustments right at the left edge of the clip scale parameters is ludicrous.

we need to be honest in our criticism.

we're talking about the visual mechanics of the timeline here. there is no worse timeline, in lazy pixel heavy conception or reactiveness than the FCPX timeline. purely based on GUI zoom scales and attributes. there simply isn't. call me a liar. that timeline - forget what its trying to do - is a dog.

also -

A: the keyframe editor as a physical attribute of the clip is horrible. makes no sense, is very hard to deal with. Also the transfer modes break if brought over a transition point with an effect attached.

B: the power windows for colour correction are the best thing I have ever seen in an editing system running like a breeze on a current iMac. Ever. its insane.

C: apple, with the multiclip window have already chosen to push things off the primary left edge of the gui. the conditionality of the GUI needs to be increased

also: Adobe introduced a preference option to pull the gradients off AE around 7 point something, - we're asking for the same. No dissolves, less chrome. Reactiveness is key. we need a speed demon version. the posted examples of realtime triming have, when you try them, horrible lag. if apple want to win here, they should win.

Lawrence is asking for the provision of multiple primaries - that's not crazy and it wont wreck apple's deeper goals. Apple need to introduce this behaviour in the inverse of Avid - we need to go to a preference to open up crazy - i think this is possible because, even with the run in, they ran out a crazy multicam in no time. flat fact - there has to be an option to re-conceive the methodology in that timeline - we need the room. there is currently no room. personally - I bloody hate the timeline. please let me change it a little.

we cannot only have two editing systems on the pitch. that would likely be extremely damaging. Apple have to get back into this.

And Not with Jesuit trolls like myself screaming on either side - we need to make the conversation about this software generally viable.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 4, 2012 at 12:47:08 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] " we need to make the conversation about this software generally viable."

That's the most sense you've made in a long time Aindreas. Kudos.

The timeline doggsihness comes form this autosave. You can almost watch it happen.

I completely agree that the ratio of audio to vidoe is silly, it needs to be adjustable.

In my opinion, the keyframing is better in X than in 7, but it's still not great.

The motion tab postion tool needs to be changed from px (which as Andrea Kiel pointed out is perXent) to actual PiXels.

The list goes on.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 4, 2012 at 1:26:41 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "The motion tab postion tool needs to be changed from px (which as Andrea Kiel pointed out is perXent) to actual PiXels."

Oh you're fun... ;)

basically - I think the current clip tied key frame presentation is a mistake? I can access the key frames left and right blind in the inspector, but attempting to invoke a keyframe editor, spatially, over the real estate of a given clip is lunacy. Its ridiculous.


it is preferable say, to have a narrow contextual keyframe representation across the base of the entire app/screen that might be more appropriate.
3DSMax has essentially had this for ages as selective complexity/control.

2 cents. IMHO. etcetera whatnot.

either way - the entire keyframe apparatus physically spatially hanging off the clip?

NEIN. try harder.

look up the 3DSMax. I worked the app for six years. the keyframe thing works.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 4, 2012 at 1:55:02 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "[Jeremy Garchow] "The motion tab postion tool needs to be changed from px (which as Andrea Kiel pointed out is perXent) to actual PiXels.""

Of course that would be Andreas Kiel. Not sure if he has a sister named Andrea that has the XML chops of Andreas, but we can imagine....

[Aindreas Gallagher] "it is preferable say, to have a narrow contextual keyframe representation across the base of the entire app/screen that might be more appropriate. "

That's kinda how 7 is, and it is also goofy.

3DSMax seems pretty cool, though. I like it. It's like playing a game of keyframe Pong. Apple would never be that sensible with keyframes, remember they tried to do hide them as best as possible in Motion 1.

What I don't like about the keyframe viewer is it shows me everything that I don't need to adjust.

Audio needs the most improvement. We just need more control. Please. Let me see all my audio tracks (but not in Tracks), let me manipulate them individually, in context, without having to send them down to the bowels of the area below the primary. GIve us sensible organization that does not involve tracks.

Let me edit (change the name) of a Role in the Role editor, let me select all chosen clips when using the Role index.

And you're right. Give me some speed. I can make decisions faster than ever, but then I have to sit and wait for the GUI to catch up. Preference turn off the animations, and figure out what the hell is taking the autosave so long. Why can't compounds work as fast as muticlips?

Thank you kindly for reconnect and the corrupt Project fixer (which usually breaks because of autosave)

Thank you kindly, for video out, even if it is beta.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 4, 2012 at 3:04:12 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "And you're right. Give me some speed. I can make decisions faster than ever, but then I have to sit and wait for the GUI to catch up. Preference turn off the animations, and figure out what the hell is taking the autosave so long. Why can't compounds work as fast as muticlips?
"


and right there - your people's congress at work on shared issues that count.

more of the real critical speed please. its a fine starter.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bret Williams
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 4, 2012 at 2:33:01 am

I'm guessing Adobe hired him before he fixed the train!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 11:51:53 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "there seem to be variable results?"

A v1 product that translates from a v5 interchange to v 1.1 interchange that involves linking "Russian to French in English" (paraphrasing Philip Hodgetts) doesn't work for every situation quite yet?

Understandable, no?

Also, in my opinion, ti's clear that FCPX isn't ready for feature length work. It needs some tightening up.

Philip Hodgetts wants to hear when it doesn't work, so be sure to send him an XML of your busted FCP7 projects.

It doesn't come across perfectly, but it does come across. There's some clean up to do, and perhaps some keyword rearranging, but all of that is pretty easy in FCPX.

There's are my opinions only. Everyone's capacity to deal with new software is different.

Jeremy


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Don Scioli
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 4, 2012 at 12:42:15 am

Yes, I admit that FCPx BLOWS. New iterations come out, such as 10.0.3 or 7to x, I get psyched up and start trying to work in X for a while, then the thing just gets really cumbersome, buggy, counterintuitive and I have to spend a lot of time doing things that in FCP7 i could do in 1 minute.

I really want it to work, but after the 100th time, I admit it sucks.

But I'll try it again with the next upgrade/add-on/plug, etc. that comes along.


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Don Scioli
Re: 7toX- this sucker really works well!
on Feb 3, 2012 at 11:33:21 pm

I imported a 5 minute section of a TV show with a lot of cuts and all the transition came through, all of the many shots except one,and the title spaces came through. From there it was an easy process to play the original cut in Quicktime and compare the titles and replace them. It took all of about 10 minutes to do.

Considering the impossible alternative, I'm very happy with these results and look forward to more refinement.


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