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Which FCP version for newbie?

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Bob McCarthy
Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 6:42:06 pm

Looking for some guidance.

I've just purchased an iMac for video editing. Which version of Final Cut would recommend for someone new to that software?...7 or X? Is one easier to learn that the other?

For close to ten years, I've been editing with the discontinued Accom Sphereous software which features a simple, classic timeline. But it's SD only.

Any help would be appreciated,

Bob



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Oliver Peters
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 7:28:51 pm

FCP 7 is gone, so that's probably not an option. X has no tracks in the timeline, so it depends on whether that is important to you or not. If it is, then your only options are Media 100, Premiere Pro or Avid Media Composer. Smoke at a higher-end price tag, too. If you are feeling adventurous and willing to roll the dice then FCP X would be of interest. Most of these have trial versions, so test them and decide for yourself.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bob McCarthy
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 7:37:12 pm

Oliver,

Thank you for the reply. I had no idea that FCP X had a trackless timeline; don't need to climb that slippery learning curve.

Of the three other products you had mentioned, which seems to be the easiest to work with?

Bob



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Oliver Peters
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 8:08:05 pm

[Bob McCarthy] "don't need to climb that slippery learning curve"

FCP X is actually relatively easy to learn. I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't. It's just that the trackless timeline requires a different way to thinking about things. Some folks take to it easily and others don't. Browse through a lot of the post in the various threads in this forum and I think you will see that from the rather "lively" discussions.

[Bob McCarthy] "which seems to be the easiest to work with?"

I hate to say it's completely subjective - but it is. Media 100 may well be the most direct to Spherous (as I remember it), but if you want something with the broadest base of users, then Media Composer or Premiere Pro would be the way to go. In the case of Adobe, you should look at the Production Premium bundle, since this would include After Effects and Photoshop and be the most bang-for-the-buck. Avid is going to be the choice of the high-end editors, but Adobe is making a very aggressive push. Probably CS6 will be released in the coming months, so more "goodness" to come in that package.

I would suggest testing the waters with a trial version (including FCP X) first to see which one fits you best.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 8:49:34 pm

[Oliver Peters] "FCP 7 is gone, so that's probably not an option."


Oddly, it still seems to be selling pretty well in video specialty stores around LA.


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 10:00:16 pm

I'm sure a lot of editors were using the original Lightworks to cut feature films when Avid started to make inroads. How many Lightworks editors are there now? (not talking about the new open source version).

Kevin Monahan
Sr. Content and Community Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Chris Harlan
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 10:10:01 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "I'm sure a lot of editors were using the original Lightworks to cut feature films when Avid started to make inroads. How many Lightworks editors are there now? (not talking about the new open source version).

Kevin Monahan
Sr. Content and Community Lead"


Kevin, I fear I do not understand the point you are making.


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 11:01:43 pm

Yes, let me be clearer:

At one point people were still buying and learning Lightworks (the old NLE) even though it was already dead, as editors still used it in Hollywood. I don't know of any editors using Lightworks, dead format, runs on ancient machines.

People are still buying and learning FCP7 even though it is already dead, as editors are still using it in Hollywood.

FCP7 is in the same situation as old Lightworks.

Maybe that makes more sense?

Kevin Monahan
Sr. Content and Community Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Oliver Peters
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 11:16:47 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "I don't know of any editors using Lightworks, dead format, runs on ancient machines."

Actually Thelma Schoonmaker (Hugo) and last year the editor for The King's Speech. Not ancient machines though. Brand new machines running under current Win 7. In fact, for Hugo, new stereo 3D modules were developed.

[Kevin Monahan] "FCP7 is in the same situation as old Lightworks."

There is no more development for FCP 7. It is no longer for sale, except through Apple's 800 number (if still) or through available inventory bought up by resellers when they still had the chance. By contrast, Lightworks has a current development team and distribution model. FCP 7 will not grow, though it may live on for a while, until Apple does something in the OS to inadvertently cripple it. Lightworks at least has funding and developer interest. Once the open source (free) Mac version becomes available, then it does present another option on the iMac.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Lawrence
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 11:34:23 pm

One reason Lightworks is still being used in Hollywood is because it handles 3D workflows. Here's a great recent DV Magazine article from Oliver Peters that talks about how it was used in Hugo.

http://www.dv.com/article/113960

I'm looking forward to the Mac OS release!

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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TImothy Auld
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 11:37:33 pm

Me too. Not because of the 3D but because the couple of times I used it I found it to be the most intuitive, fluid NLE I'd ever worked with. I'm rooting for them to make it happen.

Tim


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 8:58:23 pm

Yes, but Thelma's the only major editor using Lightworks that I know of.
One question: does the original Lightworks software resemble the new Open Source one? Curious.
BTW, Adobe video products played a role in Hugo, as well. For Pre-viz, mostly.

Kevin Monahan
Sr. Content and Community Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Oliver Peters
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 9:30:14 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "One question: does the original Lightworks software resemble the new Open Source one? Curious."

I haven't personally test-driven it. There have been quite a few changes to the GUI from versions of a few years ago. So it depends on which version you are basing the comparison. EditShare is marketing the system as both a full turnkey system as well as the Open Source version. To my knowledge the GUI is the same for the two versions of software. Of course, as yet, it isn't truly Open Source, but rather a beta version. The current model is a free download plus a small annual payment for licensed codec support.

Here's a list of production credits for features using Lightworks:

http://www.lightworksbeta.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=...


- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 9:49:15 pm

"BTW, Adobe video products played a role in Hugo"

Interesting, is there a case study we can access?

Shawn



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Oliver Peters
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 10:00:46 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Interesting, is there a case study we can access?"

Not specifically Adobe, but more on Hugo here:

http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2011/12/30/hugo/

Also check the link at the bottom of my blog post.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 26, 2012 at 1:42:34 am

"Not specifically Adobe, but more on Hugo here:"

Thanks Oliver, I'll check those links out.

Shawn



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Carlos Sarda
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 27, 2012 at 1:34:31 am

Yes, but Thelma's the only major editor using Lightworks that I know of.

.- Tariq Anwar (King's Speech) is a very high profile editor.
Many high profile movies has been edited on Lightworks (Braveheart, Pulp fiction, Batman, Mission impossible and many more I don't remember, besides all of Scorsese's films, of course.


Hey, We are talking about a Oscar and Emmy winner NLE, (Something FCP never achieved)


One question: does the original Lightworks software resemble the new Open Source one?

.- Original Lightworks software?? Ther is no such thing.

The original LWs software ran on DOS and in NT and it was loooong ago replaced/upgraded by newer models like Heavyworks, Alacrity, Softworks, Touch and others.

LWs never stopped being developed.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 27, 2012 at 2:07:18 am

[Carlos Sarda] "Hey, We are talking about a Oscar and Emmy winner NLE, (Something FCP never achieved)"

Last year's Oscars - "The Social Network" - Best Editing award to Angus Wall and Kirk Baxter. Cut on FCP 7. Or did you mean a scientific award?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Carlos Sarda
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 28, 2012 at 2:33:28 am

Or did you mean a scientific award?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant, the NLE itself won an Oscar and and Emmy.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 12:00:13 am

Kevin, I wasn't trying to suggest that FCP 7 has any kind of long term life. I was just sharing a bit of irony with Oliver because, despite its death, it still has some legs. Even if it is a headless chicken.


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Steven Gonzales
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 26, 2012 at 6:52:23 pm

Thelma Schoonmaker still uses Lightworks. Hugo was edited in parallel with Avid and Lightworks.

http://dv.com/article/113960

"Thelma cuts on [EditShare] Lightworks, but by mirroring her edits on Media Composer, I had the information in a form ready to disperse to the visual effects designers."



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Oliver Peters
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 26, 2012 at 9:35:11 pm

[Steven Gonzales] "Thelma Schoonmaker still uses Lightworks. Hugo was edited in parallel with Avid and Lightworks."

I did that interview. It's not editing in parallel. Rob Legato's team takes the edits that Thelma does on Lightworks and conforms them on his Media Composer system. He does this in order to be able to communicate with the various VFX vendors.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Steven Gonzales
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 28, 2012 at 7:47:12 pm

Thanks for the clarification. Thanks for putting that interview out there.



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Jim Giberti
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 10:34:49 pm

Hey Bob,

An important question would be, "what are your editing goals going forward"?

As a FCP7 studio that's switched to FCPX and explored the alternatives I'd recommend you pick up X (at least the trail version and see what you think after doing some tutorials and giving it a test drive.)

It's a very nice program and, despite the issues for some users, it's Apple's current and future video software. I like it more everyday and I would (and have) advised new users, students and pros to give it a serious look.

Jim


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Chris Harlan
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 12:12:32 am

[Jim Giberti] "Hey Bob,

An important question would be, "what are your editing goals going forward"?

As a FCP7 studio that's switched to FCPX and explored the alternatives I'd recommend you pick up X (at least the trail version and see what you think after doing some tutorials and giving it a test drive.)

It's a very nice program and, despite the issues for some users, it's Apple's current and future video software. I like it more everyday and I would (and have) advised new users, students and pros to give it a serious look.

Jim"


Bob, I think Jim's advice here is good, as always. You can try it for free. And for that matter you can try Media Composer for free. And, I think Premiere, though I don't quite remember, since I've always had it. X is not ready for my uses yet, and may never be, but it has a lot to offer, and depending on your needs, may be perfect for you. As for the tracklessness, that IS a problem for me, but others like Jim who have spent a lot of time mixing, as well, seem to like it fine. For the price X is a fairly powerful piece of software, and even people who are staunch critics of it recognize this. As much as I love and still use FCP 7, I would not recommend starting down that path now, and would instead suggest checking out Avid or Adobe,


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Oliver Peters
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 12:40:48 am

[Chris Harlan] "X is not ready for my uses yet, and may never be, but it has a lot to offer, and depending on your needs, may be perfect for you. "

I think it's fair to say that X has a "sweet spot" for the types of projects where it does best. Depending on the work you do, that may or may not fit. In addition, there's a update scheduled within the next few months that may change a lot of opinions - or at least fill in some gaps.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bret Williams
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 8:07:08 am

Perhaps that's what Wednesday's town hall meeting will be about. :)


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Oliver Peters
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 3:03:03 pm

The MacBreak episode may be useful:







- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Carlos Sarda
Re: Which FCP version for newbie?
on Jan 27, 2012 at 1:12:52 am

Ancient?

Actually Lightworks was never discontinued, bankrupt or dead, and the R&D was just slowed down briefly dueto financial problems of the previous owner (Gee Broadcast)
The company was purchased/sold several times, new products were developed(Alacrity, Softworks, etc)had some financial problems before it was bought out by Editshare.

FCP7 is dead.


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